Banning Dedede's infinite? FIRST POST UPDATED WITH VIDEO.

[XxBlackxX]

Melee obviously

then DI does help, and so does L-canceling and a whole bunch of other stuff. if you watch pro melee, not many pros get chaingrabbed a lot, maybe 2-3 times the most, so with the right techs and some mindgames, it was easier to get out of cgs. in brawl, its like your grabbed, your along for the ride until he screws up or in some characters case, you get enough % or you get to the edge. but heh, im not too good at melee either, i do like it a lot though.

 

[Luigi player]

then DI does help, and so does L-canceling and a whole bunch of other stuff. if you watch pro melee, not many pros get chaingrabbed a lot, maybe 2-3 times the most, so with the right techs and some mindgames, it was easier to get out of cgs. in brawl, its like your grabbed, your along for the ride until he screws up or in some characters case, you get enough % or you get to the edge. but heh, im not too good at melee either, i do like it a lot though.

Well I could nearly never get out of a grab from Shiek/Marth with Fox.

I always DId, but it never helped. Sometimes left, sometimes right, sometimes no DI, sometimes the same DI over and over, NOTHING worked. I couldn't get out of it at all, and it was really boring for me so later I stopped doing anything...

 

[XxBlackxX]

Well I could nearly never get out of a grab from Shiek/Marth with Fox.

I always DId, but it never helped. Sometimes left, sometimes right, sometimes no DI, sometimes the same DI over and over, NOTHING worked. I couldn't get out of it at all, and it was really boring for me so later I stopped doing anything...

lol. we're kinda getting off topic here, talking about melee, but oh well, melee's awesome.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

but MK has like no bad matchups, counters, stage counters, barely any useless moves other than fsmash. at least for those who aren't cgable by DDD you can take him to luigis mansion, you can gimp him.

i needed to requote it so anyone else who sees it can make the connection.

luigis mansion has nothing to do with gimping DDD lol. i ment the mansion can help limit him against some characters like Zelda. on the gimping side gimping MK is almost neigh impossible, while DDD on the otherhand can possibly be gimped.

 

[XxBlackxX]

i needed to requote it so anyone else who sees it can make the connection.

luigis mansion has nothing to do with gimping DDD lol. i ment the mansion can help limit him against some characters like Zelda. on the gimping side gimping MK is almost neigh impossible, while DDD on the otherhand can possibly be gimped.

MK has no useless moves? what about cape and side b? i think fsmash>cape. also, his jab sucks pretty bad too, though ive seen jab->dsmash pulled off.

 

[Luigi player]

MK is beatable. D3 is not with those characters. D3 is destroying some characters way more than MK does.

 

[XienZo]

MK has no useless moves? what about cape and side b? i think fsmash>cape. also, his jab sucks pretty bad too, though ive seen jab->dsmash pulled off.

Cape is sometimes used for ledge camp mindgames(which don't really matter), and side B is used when you need a constant hitbox over you while latching onto the ledge.

Both of which are extremely situational, but its still "kinda" useful.

 

[XxBlackxX]

MK is beatable. D3 is not with those characters. D3 is destroying some characters way more than MK does.

incorrect. out of the characters D3 has an infinite on, D3 is not actually mario and samus's worst matchup(look at their character boards to learn more) . and D3 is beatable even with those characters except maybe DK. (who is wrecked by D3 pretty badly.)

 

[Luigi player]

incorrect. out of the characters D3 has an infinite on, D3 is not actually mario and samus's worst matchup(look at their character boards to learn more) . and D3 is beatable even with those characters except maybe DK. (who is wrecked by D3 pretty badly.)

Really? That's hard to believe, because 1 grab = death?! Or is this only for DK, Luigi and Bowser?

 

[XxBlackxX]

Really? That's hard to believe, because 1 grab = death?! Or is this only for DK, Luigi and Bowser?

actually i think its like this: for mario, samus, and maybe bowser and DK (forgot if they could) can mash buttons at low %s to get out. and luigi can't be cg'ed normally, only infinite-ed, so if he gets out somehow, then no cg or infinite for rest of the stock.
anyways here's something to think about. if all the D3 player concentrates on is doing grabs, he becomes predictable, and therefore, easy to beat. i think it was Matador who said "D3 ends up being more of a slave to the infinite than you are". i think with "correct spacing" (lol) and proper strategy, it IS possible to beat D3 (especially a noobie D3 who just cp'ed him for an "easy win"). of course, pro D3s have something other than infinites to rely on and are less predictable and harder to beat.

 

[themrskills]

MK is beatable. D3 is not with those characters. D3 is destroying some characters way more than MK does.

Wow, I remember those days(less than a week ago) when MK was "god tier". Now it's D3? Wow, I'm betting that G&W is next on the worry list.

 

[XxBlackxX]

Wow, I remember those days(less than a week ago) when MK was "god tier". Now it's D3? Wow, I'm betting that G&W is next on the worry list.

>_>. learn2read. he only said D3 is unbeatable with those characters, which i disagree with, but still. no one has claimed D3 is "god tier".

 

[Luigi player]

Wow, I remember those days(less than a week ago) when MK was "god tier". Now it's D3? Wow, I'm betting that G&W is next on the worry list.

D3 is not "god tier". He just destroys some characters too much. I don't think MK should be banned.

And D3 is unbeatable if you're playing DK and the D3 knows what he's doing.

 

[XxBlackxX]

D3 is not "god tier". He just destroys some characters too much. I don't think MK should be banned.

agreed. it's too early for a ban, even a temp ban, imo. we must be sure that there are no strats and will counter him first.

and yup, that's why even i admitted DK gets wrecked by D3.

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't ruin the game. At all. It just forces people to start playing the match earlier than they're used to: On the character select screen. Which is fine. So when you scope out and take a grand ol' look at things, he's just another character, in another fighting game, with another infinite.

Just so you know, the whole goal of assigning a standardized rule set is so that matches aren't decided from the character selection screen.

And if it is, I hope a lot of people stop playing, because that's dumb.

 

[CO18]

incorrect. out of the characters D3 has an infinite on, D3 is not actually mario and samus's worst matchup(look at their character boards to learn more) . and D3 is beatable even with those characters except maybe DK. (who is wrecked by D3 pretty badly.)

No he's not. Those matchups are based off Dedede without an infinite which he still has big advantages over. It's impossible for them to win vs a ddd that can infinite without messing up which is easy(set c-stick to grab) but most people dont know that.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

I just want to clerify.... It's called brick sticking... I totally figured it out...

Mine!!

 

[XxBlackxX]

No he's not. Those matchups are based off Dedede without an infinite which he still has big advantages over. It's impossible for them to win vs a ddd that can infinite without messing up which is easy(set c-stick to grab) but most people dont know that.

well, i have no problems beliveing a pro D3 can beat a pro _____(insert character than can be infinite-ed) but my point was its not like your opponent is mario, so cp D3=autowin.
from my other post:
"anyways here's something to think about. if all the D3 player concentrates on is doing grabs, he becomes predictable, and therefore, easy to beat. i think it was Matador who said "D3 ends up being more of a slave to the infinite than you are". i think with "correct spacing" (lol) and proper strategy, it IS possible to beat D3 (especially a noobie D3 who just cp'ed him for an "easy win"). of course, pro D3s have something other than infinites to rely on and are less predictable and harder to beat. "

 

[Phaigne]

Just so you know, the whole goal of assigning a standardized rule set is so that matches aren't decided from the character selection screen.

And if it is, I hope a lot of people stop playing, because that's dumb.

Umbreon just owned this topic, in case you missed it.

 

[Luigi player]

No he's not. Those matchups are based off Dedede without an infinite which he still has big advantages over. It's impossible for them to win vs a ddd that can infinite without messing up which is easy(set c-stick to grab) but most people dont know that.

Even if he does mess up... he's probably the easiest character to grab people with.. lol.

 

[CO18]

well, i have no problems beliveing a pro D3 can beat a pro _____(insert character than can be infinite-ed) but my point was its not like your opponent is mario, so cp D3=autowin.
from my other post:
"anyways here's something to think about. if all the D3 player concentrates on is doing grabs, he becomes predictable, and therefore, easy to beat. i think it was Matador who said "D3 ends up being more of a slave to the infinite than you are". i think with "correct spacing" (lol) and proper strategy, it IS possible to beat D3 (especially a noobie D3 who just cp'ed him for an "easy win"). of course, pro D3s have something other than infinites to rely on and are less predictable and harder to beat. "

Obviously someone who has basically never played the game CAN still lose.

But any person with common knowledge or have played smash at least for like a month will not lose the matchup.

Other people's opinions can't be used as well. Most D3's/ other players can really only infinite for like 30/40% or so yes it's still possible to beat and them relying on that will become predictable.

But all the said d3 has to do is change c-stick to grab (alas Brick-sticking ^) and it's their stock no if ands or buts.

As you notice basically ALL the D3 mains here are pro-ban because we know just how impossible it is for someone that can be infinited to win against us, in addition to the mainers of characters that can be infinited (for the most part).

All the anti-ban people are just randoms who probably have never or rarely played the matchup from either side.

The fact is you won't win. And any non-******** person who has played smash for at least a month starts brick-sticking with DDD wont lose either.

 

[XxBlackxX]

Even if he does mess up... he's probably the easiest character to grab people with.. lol.

yea...he's grab range is pretty **** long.

@CO18
no, you get me wrong, i was never really anti-ban, it's just....seems stupid to me that everybody thinks its SUCH a huge advantage that's impossible to overcome.
and well i HAVE played the matchup from a D3's side (i used to have him as a secondary), i havent heard about brick-sticking and well, maybe things change.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

but some matchs are decided from the character select screen like Fox v Pika.

 

[XxBlackxX]

but some matchs are decided from the character select screen like Fox v Pika.

yea, a matchup that is probably WORSE than D3 vs mario or D3 vs samus.

 

[Luigi player]

It might not be totally impossible, but there's like a 0.00000001 % chance that you win >_>

It is so ****ing easy to grab people with Dedede. And DK doesn't even have projectiles, so he HAS to come to Dedede, which means death to him... even if you're a spacing god you will probably still get grabbed...

 

[CO18]

yea, a matchup that is probably WORSE than D3 vs mario or D3 vs samus.

ID like to know how Fox vs pikachu is worse than d3 vs mario or samus.

From what I know pikachu can only standing chaingrab him to 90%?

While Dedede can do that and kill their stock?

Besides the fact his grab range is like 3x that of pikachus and fox can avoid getting grabbed better than most characters.

 

[XxBlackxX]

It might not be totally impossible, but there's like a 0.00000001 % chance that you win >_>

It is so ****ing easy to grab people with Dedede. And DK doesn't even have projectiles, so he HAS to come to Dedede, which means death to him... even if you're a spacing god you will probably still get grabbed...

lol. i guess a solution could be to ban standing infinites. (up to TOs of course) but what about the one he does to bowser where he walks slowly and could still rack up a load of damage?

 

[XxBlackxX]

ID like to know how Fox vs pikachu is worse than d3 vs mario or samus.

From what I know pikachu can only standing chaingrab him to 90%?

While Dedede can do that and kill their stock?

Besides the fact his grab range is like 3x that of pikachus and fox can avoid getting grabbed better than most characters.

fox is pretty much forced to approach. making the chance he gets grabbed greater. again i dont know much about "brick-sticking" or cg'ing with pika but ive heard its really easy to do.

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175364
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203487

"I think it should be banned... it really is not fair" Luigi Player
"he just completely shuts down 5 characters" Luigi Player
"Yes, it should be banned. All you people who say it shouldnt are total idiots." -ssbbfiction
"I completely agree. I seriously think everyone who doesnt think this should be banned is dumb like literally lol" -CO18
"the people who do not support banning the infinite, what are you afraid of?" Phaigne
"play BUM somewhere where infinites arent banned and I would win 99.9% of our matches" CO18

"unless they changed characters which is unfair to them." CO18



"Why should they have to learn a new character because my character has something that completely ruins the matchup?" Voodoo
"why should you have to learn another character for a single matchup" Voodoo
"ppl shouldn't have to counterpick other people to have a decent chance at winning" -Hive
"it's legitimately wrong that characters have an advantage because of a major exploit that doesn't make sense in the first place" HeroMystic
"but it's a factor that we have to deal with and work around." HeroMystic
"Ban everyone who beats Sonic for me too will ya? ^_^" Terios

"Or instead of, don't get grabbed, don't pick DK, Bowser, Mario, Luigi, or Samus.
Don't tell me that this is stupid because "I like DK so I want to use him anyways."
Well I like Ganondorf, but I can't use him because he gets ***** by the likes of MK and GnW" BigRed
"Sheik did the same thing in Melee that D3 is doing" cutter
"shiek's grabs wasn't ever banned in melee" XxBlackxX


"Oh, dear Christ. *gags.* I'm done. /unsubscribes" Smooth Criminal





"So....this thread is dead now? ^_^" Terios

 

[Vulcan55]

i really don't think banning the infinite is going to open the doors to banning everything except captain falcon's jabs <.<

That's what you guys said about Metaknight.

 

[SothE700k]

That's what you guys said about Metaknight.

Agreed.

Seriously, there HAS to be a point where we draw the line. Because it will become where we will start questioning EVERYTHING, and out of the blue, we will see threads such as these:

"Ban arrows!"
"Ban bombs!"
"Ban Sonic!" (under accounts that he's too fast and has an attack that homes in)
"Ban dribbling!"
"Ban blaster!"
"Ban Marth! Ban Ike!" (Under account they use swords, range. Hence, unfair)
"Ban grabbing! (in general)"
"Ban countering!"
"Ban spiking!"
"Ban edge guarding!"
"Ban shielding!"
"Ban air dodging!"
"Ban spotdodging!"
"Ban short hopping!"
"Ban recovering!"

You people REALLY need to slow down for a second.

 

[Tenki]

Slippery slope is slippery `.`;

That's highly improbable, Sothe.

 

[Luigi player]

Agreed.

Seriously, there HAS to be a point where we draw the line. Because it will become where we will start questioning EVERYTHING, and out of the blue, we will see threads such as these:

"Ban arrows!"
"Ban bombs!"
"Ban Sonic!" (under accounts that he's too fast and has an attack that homes in)
"Ban dribbling!"
"Ban blaster!"
"Ban Marth! Ban Ike!" (Under account they use swords, range. Hence, unfair)
"Ban grabbing! (in general)"
"Ban countering!"
"Ban spiking!"
"Ban edge guarding!"
"Ban shielding!"
"Ban air dodging!"
"Ban spotdodging!"
"Ban short hopping!"
"Ban recovering!"

You people REALLY need to slow down for a second.

Banning an infinite is something totally different >_>

 

[salaboB]

Slippery slope is slippery `.`;

That's highly improbable, Sothe.

Not if Diddy gets involved!

Slippery banana is slippery!

Spoiler

It also isn't banned by that list.

 

[Judge Judy]

incorrect. out of the characters D3 has an infinite on, D3 is not actually mario and samus's worst matchup(look at their character boards to learn more) . and D3 is beatable even with those characters except maybe DK. (who is wrecked by D3 pretty badly.)

That's half true, but DDD is still one of Mario's hardest match-ups because of the infinite. Like I said before, Mario does have a legitimate, reliable strategy against DDD but it doesn’t change the fact that it makes DDD near impossible to safely approach because of his infinite. I wouldn’t go as far to say the match-up is non-winnable but it is a very tough match-up that requires a lot of patience. Samus does a better job at outright camping DDD but she can’t ledge camp or fight off-stage as well as Mario. Mario and Samus’s only options are camp until either DDD is forced to approach or they find an opportunity to punish DDD, because of DDD’s infinite on them...or just use a good secondary...

 

[SothE700k]

Slippery slope is slippery `.`;

That's highly improbable, Sothe.

Oh I wouldn't doubt that at this point. Some ended up saying "Banning Metaknight will not lead to other bans. This will open everything up for good."

...Look where we are at now.

Not if Diddy gets involved!

Slippery banana is slippery!

Spoiler

It also isn't banned by that list.

Just watch...someone will get on it soon. Quote me on that.

Banning an infinite is something totally different >_>

You missed my point by a mile.

 

[Ripple]

I'm for the ban not only because I play DK but because in tournament play if my opponent plays DDD the first round I (almost) automatically lose the first game. this puts me at a huge disadvantage. it is basically saying that if I main DK or any other character that gets infinited by DDD I have to win 2 games not using my main character and they only have to win 1 with their main since the first is an automatic win. that is a HUGE disadvantage to anyone playing DK, mario, luigi, samus, and basically bowser. with that, these characters will never move up on the tier lists only down. with an increased number of DK's there will be an increase of DDD

even if they don't play DDD the first round and you win. all they have to do is counter pick DDD set grab to c stick, land 3 grabs and they win the game. then game 3 you are forced to play someone you are not as good with.

 

[shock505]

When i was agaisnt D3 i was getting infinited and i managed to escape by Di'ing the other way and mashing random buttons lol. It makes D3 a better char and makes some of other peoples match ups harder but shouldn't be banned.

 

[SothE700k]

I'm for the ban not only because I play DK but because in tournament play if my opponent plays DDD the first round I (almost) automatically lose the first game. this puts me at a huge disadvantage. it is basically saying that if I main DK or any other character that gets infinited by DDD I have to win 2 games not using my main character and they only have to win 1 with their main since the first is an automatic win. that is a HUGE disadvantage to anyone playing DK, mario, luigi, samus, and basically bowser.

even if they don't play DDD the first round and you win. all they have to do is counter pick DDD set grab to c stick, land 3 grabs and they win the game. then game 3 you are forced to play someone you are not as good with.

Its called secondaries for a reason. Back ups. Not saying "Main someone else", just a back up plan.

 

[Ripple]

When i was agaisnt D3 i was getting infinited and i managed to escape by Di'ing the other way and mashing random buttons lol. It makes D3 a better char and makes some of other peoples match ups harder but shouldn't be banned.

you may want to think twice since you can not DI DDD's throw. the only way to get out of the infinite is for the opponent to mess up