Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[TheAnvil]

The former, maybe. But as someone pointed out a few pages back, Mega Man has always been the "face" of Capcom. He's their Mario or their Mickey Mouse. It's not for nothing that he got into Smash first, with a ton of fanfare, and Ryu snuck in quietly later.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing Ryu. Street Fighter II is one of the biggest things ever in gaming. But some things are a matter of optics and nothing else.



It's not all about sales numbers.

Ryu is the face of Capcom, that's why he's front and centre in every spinoff. Prior to Ryu, Captain Commando was Capcom's official mascot.

Ryu isn't only the face of Capcom, he's the face of the entire fighting game genre, he's inspired countless knockoffs. Mega Man is a significant character sure, but he got in prior to Ryu because he was more popular with the Smash community and was a massive request, that's all. Ryu is by far the bigger character.

 

[Justin Little]

I didn't see Ryu in that Pac Man reveal trailer. You know, the one featuring each companies mascot. I know Ryu wasn't revealed then, but Sakurai and team knew what they were doing in that trailer. That and the fact Megaman himself rivals both Pac Man (Street Fighter X Tekken) and Sonic (Archie Comics), the mascots of their respective companies. Ryu is definitely the face of their fighting series, but Megaman is still seen as their all-around mascot even if he sometimes doesn't get much love, UMVC3 be damned.

 

[Planet Cool]

Exactly. There's a reason why Mega Man is/was more popular with the Smash community than Ryu. It's like, Frozen is currently Disney's hottest property, but Anna and Elsa aren't getting into the big cartoon crossover before Mickey.

 

[TheAnvil]

I didn't see Ryu in that Pac Man reveal trailer.

I know Ryu wasn't revealed then

Exactly. Not to mention at that point, that Mega Man and Sonic were the only other 3rd Parties even in the game.

Exactly. There's a reason why Mega Man is/was more popular with the Smash community than Ryu. It's like, Frozen is currently Disney's hottest property, but Anna and Elsa aren't getting into the big cartoon crossover before Mickey.

Yeah and by this logic Geno is the most important Square character.

 

[Planet Cool]

Square doesn't really have a mascot though, unless you count Slime, and there is a sizable push to get Slime in Smash. It definitely eclipsed Erdrick's before Brave speculation kicked off.

 

[TheAnvil]

The best selling Mega Man game on the SNES isn't even in the top 40, and it doesn't even star the classic Bomber. There are 2 versions of Street Fighter 2 in the top 10. Again on the NES, no Mega Man game cracks the top 40.

Mega Man is the Kirby of Capcom. He gets a lot of games that don't generally sell like the companies bigger IPs (Mario/Zelda/DK/Pokemon, RE/Monster Hunter/Street Fighter). The character is popular and recognizable, but isn't as important as their bigger names. That's fine. Don't try to make him seem like more than he is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fun Fact: In the World of Light opening cutscene, MegaMan is there, but Ryu is nowhere to be found. He's one of the many who wasn't selected to appear. Hard to say why, of course, but MegaMan being higher priority could be a potential thing.

That said, MegaMan was the mascot of Capcom for a while. Capcom Commando didn't last nearly as long as he could've, and Ryu never replaced MegaMan at all. It's really more that MegaMan and Ryu shared the actual spot, being their most successful and known mascots in gaming history.

 

[Ura]

It's not all about sales numbers.

Yes but you would be a fool to deny the character's popularity. Especially one that's known to close to 10 million people.

 

[Planet Cool]

The best selling Mega Man game on the SNES isn't even in the top 40, and it doesn't even star the classic Bomber. There are 2 versions of Street Fighter 2 in the top 10. Again on the NES, no Mega Man game cracks the top 40.

Mega Man is the Kirby of Capcom. He gets a lot of games that don't generally sell like the companies bigger IPs (Mario/Zelda/DK/Pokemon, RE/Monster Hunter/Street Fighter). The character is popular and recognizable, but isn't as important as their bigger names. That's fine. Don't try to make him seem like more than he is.

I mean, I don't really disagree with what you're saying here. It's just that "important" means different things to different people. Is Ryu more important because his games are more profitable? Some would say yes, I would say not necessarily.

 

[Justin Little]

Megaman (and Bionic Commando) put Capcom on the map, and were their first biggest successes at the time. Street Fighter didn't get good until 2. Kirby came later in Nintendo's lifetime and was not even developed in-house, so they are not comparable in the slightest.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Fun Fact: In the World of Light opening cutscene, MegaMan is there, but Ryu is nowhere to be found. He's one of the many who wasn't selected to appear. Hard to say why, of course, but MegaMan being higher priority could be a potential thing.

A lost opportunity, we could have had Ryu and Ken in a beam war with Shinku-Hadoken against the Light Ray

 

[NintenRob]

Fun Fact: In the World of Light opening cutscene, MegaMan is there, but Ryu is nowhere to be found. He's one of the many who wasn't selected to appear. Hard to say why, of course, but MegaMan being higher priority could be a potential thing.

That said, MegaMan was the mascot of Capcom for a while. Capcom Commando didn't last nearly as long as he could've, and Ryu never replaced MegaMan at all. It's really more that MegaMan and Ryu shared the actual spot, being their most successful and known mascots in gaming history.

POYO INTENSIFIES

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A lost opportunity, we could have had Ryu and Ken in a beam war with Shinku-Hadoken against the Light Ray

Indeed. Other than MegaMan possibly being higher priority, there's the possibility that going to Capcom USA for extra stuff like cutscene usage was not something they wanted to go for. They couldn't even get Cloud in the opening cutscene, so some of it could be as simple as licensing priority. And really, the Japanese company is way easier to work with due to communications barrier, so it makes a lot of sense why MegaMan was easily higher priority. Assuming no bias, anyway.

There's a lot of beam wars that could've been done. Or just Hadoukens flying everywhere. There's tons of characters who would've been sweet in that opening scene(Cloud is just one of many).

 

[CosmicQuark]

I just wanted to point out that Dark Samus was pretty highly requested and Sakurai even mentioned that in her announcement with Chrom. Most people thought she was more likely than Ridley because of the "Ridley is too big" meme, but as we all know now they were both super likely for Ultimate. Also Dark Samus and Ridley were the only two Metroid characters people actually wanted in Smash.

I know that she was highly requested given what he said, but for casual fans the Chrom/Dark Samus reveal was a big "Why?" Whereas Dixie would have appealed to a much wider audience. Dark Samus made no sense after Ridley's reveal--they got their Metroid villain. While I'm happy for the fans of the character, personally it's a head-scratcher and only made sense if Dixie was in too. It feels like, on the whole, the Ultimate base roster was mainly targeted towards fans of Smash, as so many decisions made no sense from a casual viewers perspective.

It's true, as was said, that perhaps Dixie was too unique to be an echo--and makes echos make even less sense given Isabelle and Ken. But, it's done, it's final, I'll just keep griping in my head about it until Dixie's in.

Banjo & Kazooie being in could also make me forget about it.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Indeed. Other than MegaMan possibly being higher priority, there's the possibility that going to Capcom USA for extra stuff like cutscene usage was not something they wanted to go for. They couldn't even get Cloud in the opening cutscene, so some of it could be as simple as licensing priority. And really, the Japanese company is way easier to work with due to communications barrier, so it makes a lot of sense why MegaMan was easily higher priority. Assuming no bias, anyway.

There's a lot of beam wars that could've been done. Or just Hadoukens flying everywhere. There's tons of characters who would've been sweet in that opening scene(Cloud is just one of many).

I found it so funny how little Cloud appeared in the WoL. You can tell how late of an addition he was. He had like what. 3 battles at the very end of WoL? It amazes me how close we were to “everyone is here” being ruined by SE.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I found it so funny how little Cloud appeared in the WoL. You can tell how late of an addition he was. He had like what. 3 battles at the very end of WoL? It amazes me how close we were to “everyone is here” being ruined by SE.

Yeah, they definitely charge an arm and a leg. There might be more to it than "lots of money to license", though.

 

[Justin Little]

I know that she was highly requested given what he said, but for casual fans the Chrom/Dark Samus reveal was a big "Why?" Whereas Dixie would have appealed to a much wider audience. Dark Samus made no sense after Ridley's reveal--they got their Metroid villain. While I'm happy for the fans of the character, personally it's a head-scratcher and only made sense if Dixie was in too. It feels like, on the whole, the Ultimate base roster was mainly targeted towards fans of Smash, as so many decisions made no sense from a casual viewers perspective.

It's true, as was said, that perhaps Dixie was too unique to be an echo--and makes echos make even less sense given Isabelle and Ken. But, it's done, it's final, I'll just keep griping in my head about it until Dixie's in.

Banjo & Kazooie being in could also make me forget about it.

I can't imagine Dark Samus being more popular than Dixie. I guess it's possible, and I understand Dark Samus's inclusion as an easy echo whereas Dixie would require more work than her. However, Dixie was pretty high in the polls during the ballot if I'm not mistaken. Sakurai must have seen that regardless of his decision. She should surely be a high priority next time (I say this every Smash cycle, lol!).

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Yeah, they definitely charge an arm and a leg. There might be more to it than "lots of money to license", though.

Which is part of why I don't think a second Square rep, let alone Erdrick, is gonna happen. Square is just too difficult to work with

 

[MissingGlitch]

Which is part of why I don't think a second Square rep, let alone Erdrick, is gonna happen. Square is just too difficult to work with

Unless of course Nintendo sees they can get a heavy return on their investment of another character from SE.

 

[BZocky]

The official Toejam and Earl Twitter posted this recently:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

from the 2nd page of the instruction booklet;

 

[Planet Cool]

Which is part of why I don't think a second Square rep, let alone Erdrick, is gonna happen. Square is just too difficult to work with

Guess we'd better not put all our blue eggs in the "Erdrick and Banjo double reveal" basket.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Square doesn't really have a mascot though, unless you count Slime, and there is a sizable push to get Slime in Smash. It definitely eclipsed Erdrick's before Brave speculation kicked off.

Square tend to use Chocobo and Slime as their mascots.

 

[Deleted member]

Fun Fact: In the World of Light opening cutscene, MegaMan is there, but Ryu is nowhere to be found. He's one of the many who wasn't selected to appear. Hard to say why, of course, but MegaMan being higher priority could be a potential thing.

That said, MegaMan was the mascot of Capcom for a while. Capcom Commando didn't last nearly as long as he could've, and Ryu never replaced MegaMan at all. It's really more that MegaMan and Ryu shared the actual spot, being their most successful and known mascots in gaming history.

Mega Man has the virtue of being the third party that appears in the most Smash Advertising. He appears in in:
-Robin's Poster.
-A japanese commercial featuring AKB48 Miis.
-An american 3DS commercial with other characters like Kirby and Mario.
-Bowser Jr.s trailer.
-Ridley's Trailer (the only third party veteran in Ultimate to appear in a newcomer's trailer in CGI form, others appear only in gameplay clips, but not CGI)
-Probably forgetting some other advertising stuff, Tag Me if you know more.

He also was playable in the Smash 3DS demo, something Sonic and Pac-Man cannot say.

Mega Man has the most presence out of all third parties in Smash Bros when it comes to advertising material, and sometimes he's the only third party that shows up. Ryu, despite having games that sell better, beign more influential, etc, Mega Man was the fanbase's favorite back in the pre-Smash Days, and as far as im aware almost nobody brought up Ryu during the Pre-Brawl Days or the Pre-Smash 4 days (although back in the pre-release days of Smash 4, one Third Party per company was a popular fan-rule, so that was mostly the reason most people didn't talk about him)

If there is any character that is analougue to Banjo when it comes to Third Parties, it's Mega Man. He's definetly recognizable and well known, but not super mainstream. He is just mainstream enough because he is seen as a symbol of NES culture. If Mega Man wasn't in Smash and we got Ryu and say, Leon, i would be much more pessimistic about Banjo's prospects as a result.

Mega Man was just more desired by the Smash Community, and Nintendo and Sakurai and Cpacom capitalized on it, Hard. It's proof that you don't have to be super mainstream and the most iconic character in the industry, but instead you have a passionate fanbase that desires you. Ryu, no matter how much important and influential he is (i mean Mario in Smash 64 was the closest thing to a Shoto Clone in that game) Mega Man was the community's choice.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

Gaming Icon Tiers:

S: Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, MAYBE Pikachu and Donkey King

A: Link, Ryu, Cloud, Master Chief, Snake, MAYBE Samus

B: Sora, Lara Croft, Kratos, that’s about it.

C: Crash, Rayman, Banjo, Spyro

 

[Ctoan]

So what are y'all's favorite/least favorite levels from Kazooie/Tooie? WitchyWorld is probably my favorite overall. I like the theme since I'm an amusement park nut and the variation it brings. The music is also fire. My favorite in Kazooie though is probably Mad Monster Mansion for its atmosphere and charm.
As for my least favorite in Tooie, it's probably Terrydactyland (I actually like how puzzle like Grunty Industries is). For Kazooie, definitely Freezeezy Peak. All those snowball throwing snowmen and cold water was really annoying.

 

[AngrySun88]

Which is part of why I don't think a second Square rep, let alone Erdrick, is gonna happen. Square is just too difficult to work with

I'm not so convinced of a second Square rep either, especially a character that's virtually unknown in the West.

Whereas Banjo is a character who has been long requested since before Melee. We got K Rool and Ridley because of fan demand. Why not Banjo? Microsoft seems like they're more wiling to play ball than Square with their characters.

 

[Planet Cool]

Gaming Icon Tiers:

S: Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, MAYBE Pikachu and Donkey King

A: Link, Ryu, Cloud, Master Chief, Snake, MAYBE Samus

B: Sora, Lara Croft, Kratos, that’s about it.

C: Crash, Rayman, Banjo, Spyro

There's no "maybe" about Donkey Kong and certainly not about Pikachu! Pokemon is the single most popular media franchise on Earth.

So what are y'all's favorite/least favorite levels from Kazooie/Tooie? WitchyWorld is probably my favorite overall. I like the theme since I'm an amusement park nut and the variation it brings. The music is also fire. My favorite in Kazooie though is probably Mad Monster Mansion for its atmosphere and charm.
As for my least favorite in Tooie, it's probably Terrydactyland (I actually like how puzzle like Grunty Industries is). For Kazooie, definitely Freezeezy Peak. All those snowball throwing snowmen and cold water was really annoying.

Favorites: in Kazooie, Click Clock Wood; in Tooie, it's a tie between Terrydactyland and Grunty Industries.

Least favorites: in Kazooie, Clanker's Cavern; in Tooie, Cloud Cuckooland.

 

[Leotsune]

Gaming Icon Tiers:

S: Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, MAYBE Pikachu and Donkey King

A: Link, Ryu, Cloud, Master Chief, Snake, MAYBE Samus

B: Sora, Lara Croft, Kratos, that’s about it.

C: Crash, Rayman, Banjo, Spyro

Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, Pikachu, Mega Man.
Without a doubt the true gaming icons.

 

[Deleted member]

Also something i feel people should realize, is that in Crossovers, some characters can be seen as more fitting than others, regardless of how inconic they are.

For instance, imagine a Fanservice heavy Crossover game with T&A and hot anime chicks and waifus and **** ( i know im gonna get eyebrows raised for this one but hear me out) and Sega has a character in it. Sonic is their more recognizable character, but someone like Bayo just fits better in this type fo game.

Some crossovers use different characters that fit better. It's why Mario Sports Mix uses Black Mage and the like while Smash Bros uses Cloud (Because Cloud would clash way too much with the Mario aesthetic, but that is more forgivable in Smash since there are millions of different types and styles in Smash as opposed to Mario Sports games which are more homogenized, or it least it was that way until Mario Kart 8)

In the context of Smash, Simon could be seen as a decent Konami character to be added alongisde Snake, but Simon's franchise, Castlevania, is only the 4th Best Selling Konami Franchise (behind Pro Kyaku, Metal Gear, and PES) and yet, you never say anybody clamoring for Pro Kyaku (albeit that is a ver Japan Only Franchise that makes Dragon Quest look like Call of Duty) or a PES player and Simonw as given the chance instead (same goes for Bomberman too, even if he is just an AT)

Im not saying this just to knock Steve and Chief down a peg, but in the context of Smash, Banjo was and is still is seen as a more fitting choice in the eyes of many members of the Smash fanbase, just like Mega Man was in the Pre-Smash 4 days. Of course, things have changed since 2014, with the inclusion of characters like Cloud and Joker and Bayo (who ironically might just help Banjo when it comes to not beign super iconic) which have shifted the view of certain characters, but some of this stuff still applies.

 

[ivanlerma]

imagine a Fanservice heavy Crossover game with T&A and hot anime chicks and waifus and **** ( i know im gonna get eyebrows raised for this one but hear me out) and Sega has a character in it. Sonic is his more recognizable character, but someone like Bayo just fits better in this type fo game.

Project X Zone was going to have Sonic but they removed him. probably for that reason.

 

[timbo8]

ireally there two reveal and one of them is banjo

 

[Deleted member]

Project X Zone was going to have Sonic but they removed him. probably for that reason.

I woud like a source to your statement. I have never heard about Sonic beign in Project X Zone at one point in development before.

But since you brought Project X Zone, i have to metnion how that Game went With X and Zero over the Classic characters, probably because the former fit better with the rest of the Cast, further reinforcing the idea that i posted.


EDIT: I do remember hearing that Bayonetta was going to appear in Project X Zone, but was removed because Kamiya dind't wanted it (but he later regretted doing that)

 

[ZoroCarlos]

I woud like a source to your statement. I have never heard about Sonic beign in Project X Zone at one point in development before.

But since you brought Project X Zone, i have to metnion how that Game went With X and Zero over the Classic characters, probably because the former fit better with the rest of the Cast, further reinforcing the idea that i posted.

This also happened in MvC though, where there was no excuse to not have classic Megaman when you have freaking Arthur and Viewtiful Joe running around

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This also happened in MvC though, where there was no excuse to not have classic Megaman when you have freaking Arthur and Viewtiful Joe running around

And the reasoning for MegaMan not being in MvC3 was really stupid. They didn't want as many shotoclones. And wouldn't change him(or even add another version of MegaMan. The literal Zero doesn't count). ...But then they bring back Akuma, completely negating their entire statement. Like, there wasn't another shotoclone that could've been axed over one of your biggest characters of all time? Thank goodness we got X in Infinite, only for that to be a terribly weak roster. No X-Men is a load of bull. There's literally no excuse for Wolverine to be missing. At all.

 

[ivanlerma]

I woud like a source to your statement. I have never heard about Sonic beign in Project X Zone at one point in development before.

But since you brought Project X Zone, i have to metnion how that Game went With X and Zero over the Classic characters, probably because the former fit better with the rest of the Cast, further reinforcing the idea that i posted.


EDIT: I do remember hearing that Bayonetta was going to appear in Project X Zone, but was removed because Kamiya dind't wanted it (but he later regretted doing that)

No Source other than this magazine screenshot of sonic with frank west.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT GOOGLE THEORY WAS DEAD THIS HAPPENS

 

[Lycan Rex]

And the reasoning for MegaMan not being in MvC3 was really stupid. They didn't want as many shotoclones. And wouldn't change him(or even add another version of MegaMan. The literal Zero doesn't count). ...But then they bring back Akuma, completely negating their entire statement. Like, there wasn't another shotoclone that could've been axed over one of your biggest characters of all time? Thank goodness we got X in Infinite, only for that to be a terribly weak roster. No X-Men is a load of bull. There's literally no excuse for Wolverine to be missing. At all.

To this day im still baffled how mega man was cut, but someone else from the same franchise wasn't. That's like if sonic was cut from smash 6, but knuckles was added instead. Mvc Finite was a terribly uninspired game. No wonder it died so quickly.

Funny how smash's roster keeps getting bigger and better, with each iteration, and mvc keeps getting smaller and weaker.

 

[Deleted member]

This also happened in MvC though, where there was no excuse to not have classic Megaman when you have freaking Arthur and Viewtiful Joe running around

True true, MVC's worst roster exlcusion (at least on the Capcom side of things) was the absence of any Mega Man incarnation (Tatsunoko Vs Capcom did not have Classic MM, but it had Mega Man Volnutt) thankfully that was fixed in Infinite by adding the long-desired X to go alongside Zero......................and that was probably one of the only good things about Infinite.

And the reasoning for MegaMan not being in MvC3 was really stupid. They didn't want as many shotoclones. And wouldn't change him(or even add another version of MegaMan. The literal Zero doesn't count). ...But then they bring back Akuma, completely negating their entire statement. Like, there wasn't another shotoclone that could've been axed over one of your biggest characters of all time? Thank goodness we got X in Infinite, only for that to be a terribly weak roster. No X-Men is a load of bull. There's literally no excuse for Wolverine to be missing. At all.

The idea of Mega Man beign a Shoto Clone hurts my soul. Mega Man has enogh Close Ranged moves to be re-invented as his own character:

and honestly, MVCI hurts my soul. So much MCU pandering, and exclusion of the X-Men is insulting once you realize that the X-Men are part of the reason the MVC franchise exists in the first place (X-Men Children of the Atom was Capcom's first fighting Game featuring Marvel Characters) Not even gonna go into the whole "Functions" meme.

Oh and also Banjo for Smash. I gotta stay on topic about him. Albeit i don't think i have to worry about Sakurai thinking of a moveset for him, at the very least.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Gaming Icon Tiers:

S: Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, MAYBE Pikachu and Donkey King

A: Link, Ryu, Cloud, Master Chief, Snake, MAYBE Samus

B: Sora, Lara Croft, Kratos, that’s about it.

C: Crash, Rayman, Banjo, Spyro

Mega-Man is A-Tier. Certainly below Pikachu and Donkey Kong. I’d argue he is slightly below Link but still same tier.

 

[CannonStreak]

View attachment 225643
No Source other than this magazine screenshot of sonic with frank west.

Man, as a Sonic fan, how I wish I didn't see that image just now.