Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They matter in building a franchise- it's not just about money, it's about getting your product in consumers faces. In marketing economics, an individual needs to see a brand roughly seven times before they even begin to recognize what it is. Merchandise is not only extreme amounts of money in the pocket, but it builds the brand for those who buy, and those who see those purchases (ie- kids playing).

I'm not sure it helps the series much if it's still not getting any new games or releases. It somewhat helps, but there's a lot more active series where it matters more(I.E. Minecraft).

He says this, yet ROB, G&W, Pit, Dark Pit, Palutena, Duck Hunt Duo, WII Fit trainer, Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, & Lil Mac are characters...so this reasoning is BS.

He's a hypocrite. I'm very certain his reasoning is "I don't like that franchise/character so it's not being getting a rep"

...F-Zero was an active franchise during that time. Most of this examples are poor. Golden Sun was never a finished franchise either, and he nearly cut Ness twice due to him not being used again. Most of those are also retro reps who have a different reason for being added. Palutena was highly popular in Japan. Duck Hunt(a trio, btw, really) is retro. Wii Fit Trainer actually did get a new game, so got reused. IC's are retro. Little Mac was a relevant Wii title during development. Dark Pit was an Echo, which are last minute additions and don't follow that guideline. The only actual one close to your point is Little Mac at best. Palutena was entirely relevant when added as well.

Golden Sun had no known future in any way. You could apply Sakurai bias slightly to Palutena if you want. But rarely doesn't mean "never" either. Got actual examples of irrelevant characters who aren't retro? Cause all of those were also relevant when added.

 

[Nazyrus]

He says this, yet ROB, G&W, Pit, Dark Pit, Palutena, Duck Hunt Duo, WII Fit trainer, Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, & Lil Mac are characters...so this reasoning is BS.

He's a hypocrite. I'm very certain his reasoning is "I don't like that franchise/character so it's not being getting a rep, but here's SOMETHING so shut it."

Watch him add another irrelevant future-less character into the fighterpass. Just watch.

100%, precisely. Nobody knows what Sakurai's real criteria for choosing picks are from time to time. And he is known for also breaking fan made rules / patterns as well. There is no point in trying to analyze or understand how Sakurai does choose his picks. Anything is possible with him at this point.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Man this thread is getting nasty.



What on Earth are you talking about? I'm here because I want to HAVE Banjo and Kazooie in Smash, not because I want to want them. Another game would be great, fine, but I'm on a thread for him to be in Smash Bros. This paragraph is not out of context- the post just doesnt make sense.

As much as I'd love to talk about how a possible B-K pack would be like, there will always be issues brought up that have to be addressed. We can speculate in circles but that wont lessen or strengthen the clear and present chances our Bear and Bird have. None of us have any idea on the true motivations on why some "irrelevant" characters are added. To act like we know is just foolish. All we can do now is look at what we currently know. Tossing around Sakurai's words doesnt mean much these days, and neither do fan rules as well.

 

[MissingGlitch]

He says this, yet ROB, G&W, Pit, Dark Pit, Palutena, Duck Hunt Duo, WII Fit trainer, Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, & Lil Mac are characters...so this reasoning is BS.

He's a hypocrite. I'm very certain his reasoning is "I don't like that franchise/character so it's not getting a rep, but here's SOMETHING so shut it."

Watch him add another irrelevant future-less character into the fighterpass. Just watch.

This is where I am going to have to agree with you for once. It's obvious when Sakurai involves his bias in his choices. Like I am pretty sure Pit was only added because he wanted to make a new Kid Icarus game. Then in smash 4 you can see how half the content in the 3DS version was kid Icarus stuff. The only problem with all this is that Sakurai has stated in the past that he enjoyed the golden sun series I am pretty sure. So bias wouldn't really be a good excuse for Isaac.

 

[KingMinjo91]

I mean, you're in Polarpanda's discord, aren't you? Shouldn't you know that her Nintendo ambassador fellow who knew about the Link's Awakening remake also said that Sakurai shot down Isaac regardless of his popularity on the ballot because of his irrelevancy?

View attachment 210821

And Sakurai said he rarely chooses characters without a future, right here.

I find it funny that it still has the "yeah ROB and Duck Hunt etc etc but Nintendo history!"

Feels like he just does what he wants... and thats fine. Banjo certainly has a big history with Nintendo, so that doesn't worry me.

 

[Nazyrus]

Tossing around Sakurai's words doesnt mean much these days, and neither do fan rules as well.

I find it funny that it still has the "yeah ROB and Duck Hunt etc etc but Nintendo history!"

Feels like he just does what he wants... and thats fine. Banjo certainly has a big history with Nintendo, so that doesn't worry me.

That's all that we really need to know here. That's why we can always speculate, have fun and hopes for our bear and bird, specially with all that is going for them now.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

This is where I am going to have to agree with you for once. It's obvious when Sakurai involves his bias in his choices. Like I am pretty sure Pit was only added because he wanted to make a new Kid Icarus game. Then in smash 4 you can see how half the content in the 3DS version was kid Icarus stuff. The only problem with all this is that Sakurai has stated in the past that he enjoyed the golden sun series I am pretty sure. So bias wouldn't really be a good excuse for Isaac.

Plus if Sakurai bias was a thing we would've had Bandana Dee. Then again his bias is clear due to how hard he worked to jerk off the Persona series. All the references and attentions to detail and extra work he put into it shows that he really, really likes Persona. Im chalking up Joker as Sakurai's special little boy and this pack as his Pet Project that just so happened to align up with Nintendo's desires.

 

[pupNapoleon]

100%, precisely. Nobody knows what Sakurai's real criteria for choosing picks are from time to time. And he is known for also breaking fan made rules / patterns as well. There is no point in trying to analyze or understand how Sakurai does choose his picks. Anything is possible with him at this point.

Sakurai is an artist who works freelance. In other words, a working human. From a business and sociological perspective,
His criteria are, and will always be:
-who inspires me to want to get up and create this game?
-who do I have access to and can I legally use?
-will this satisfy the employer/employer's expectation of fan demand enough to matter?

As much as I'd love to talk about how a possible B-K pack would be like, there will always be issues brought up that have to be addressed. We can speculate in circles but that wont lessen or strengthen the clear and present chances our Bear and Bird have. None of us have any idea on the true motivations on why some "irrelevant" characters are added. To act like we know is just foolish. All we can do now is look at what we currently know. Tossing around Sakurai's words doesnt mean much these days, and neither do fan rules as well.

All of this is true, and had nothing to do with what I posted prior.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The thing with a character being irrelevant at least in my eyes is it makes them less of a priority compared to others but not being outright tossed aside. There could be an incentive for that character to be kind of given a higher chance if they're lucky. If he really wanted to make an exception for one of the most demanded characters in the community he can very well do it

 

[SKX31]

Man this thread is getting nasty.



What on Earth are you talking about? I'm here because I want to HAVE Banjo and Kazooie in Smash, not because I want to want them. Another game would be great, fine, but I'm on a thread for him to be in Smash Bros. This paragraph is not out of context- the post just doesnt make sense.

Okay, I didn't construct that sentence well at alll, but:

I mentioned that since B-K are third party, my assumption is this: if B-K gets into Smash it's probably not going to be isolated to Smash. Microsoft knows the interest, and Phil's comments show a clear interest in reviving the IP in some form (for example a Smash appearance). They probably want a compent dev team working on something Banjo related so they can string together something like this:

B-K Smash Appearnce, which gives hype to: -> Kazooie / Tooie HD or 4K remaster / remake a la Spyro Reignited, which in turn raises interest for: -> Threeie

 

[SchAlternate]

Sakurai is clearly unbiased, notice how most of the Kirby content in the game comes from the Kirby games he specifically directed, that's as bias free as you get.

 

[Looma]

Sakurai literally said that he wanted to add Geno. **** outta here with that relevancy schlock. Try again. Don't care what kind of irrelevancy olympics you're trying to play, Mega Man was practically on life support, he got in. Castlevania is as good as dead unless you consider sexy pachinko a future and not a hellish afterlife, Simon's in and even came with his hot descendant to boot. K. Rool was MIA for 10 years, he's in. Different characters are chosen for different reasons.

Sakurai does as Sakurai does. He doesn't give a **** what trends you notice because he'll break them every time anyway and add whoever he pleases. You don't know how he works.

 

[Lycan Rex]

You know, I have noticed older ip's getting revived recently. Crash N sane trilogy, spyro reignited, psyconauts 2, crash team racing, hell even friggin bubsy.

Maybe ms wants a piece of that pie.

Edit: Even tho it was 3 years ago, Doom got a roaring comeback. It's even got a new game coming out

 

[Nazyrus]

Sakurai literally said that he wanted to add Geno. **** outta here with that relevancy schlock. Try again. Don't care what kind of irrelevancy olympics you're trying to play, Mega Man was practically on life support, he got in. Castlevania is as good as dead unless you consider sexy pachinko a future and not a hellish afterlife, Simon's in and even came with his hot descendant to boot. K. Rool was MIA for 10 years, he's in. Different characters are chosen for different reasons.

Sakurai does as Sakurai does. He doesn't give a **** what trends you notice because he'll break them every time anyway and add whoever he pleases. You don't know how he works.

Amen, lol.

Also I can't get enough of this cover, always makes me giggle.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai literally said that he wanted to add Geno. **** outta here with that relevancy schlock. Try again. Don't care what kind of irrelevancy olympics you're trying to play, Mega Man was practically on life support, he got in. Castlevania is as good as dead unless you consider sexy pachinko a future and not a hellish afterlife, Simon's in and even came with his hot descendant to boot. K. Rool was MIA for 10 years, he's in. Different characters are chosen for different reasons.

Sakurai does as Sakurai does. He doesn't give a **** what trends you notice because he'll break them every time anyway and add whoever he pleases. You don't know how he works.

Nice bad examples. MegaMan was continued as a franchise via a comic. Castlevania had its own anime, and the Pachinko machine 100% counts as keeping the franchise relevant anyway. Because a franchise being relevant means it's getting new items among it. That's literally all relevance means. It doesn't matter what the opinion of it is, it matters what the reality is. Disliking a product won't make it nonexistent. Donkey Kong Country was currently an active franchise. It's not about the character, but the franchise too. A franchise that won't continue is unlikely to get a character. It doesn't mean it can't, just not likely.

Geno's an exception to his guideline, and he's still not playable either, though that's more on Square-Enix anyway. Every single one of them were currently relevant franchises that got a character. No exceptions. The fact Mario is a relevant series does help Geno a lot too(and may be why he's wanted as playable by Sakurai compares to actual irrelevant franchises like Golden Sun. If they ain't retro, the franchise being relevant is enough. As shown by how Dark Samus, an irrelevant character, got in. Funny how Metroid is highly relevant right now too. These aren't coincidences. Irrelevant franchises are in a bad position, but not impossible. That's the actual point Sakurai is making. Golden Sun isn't relevant, which hurts Isaac a lot. Thankfully we did get lots of content, despite not being playable. Meanwhile B-K does have some relevancy(merchandise namely, since it seems like VC-like games like Rare Replay don't seem to count. Otherwise Golden Sun's re-releases on the Wii U VC would've mattered. He still called it irrelevant, which is a pretty clear indication that newer products matter, not old ones), which puts it in a reasonable position. Not a guaranteed one, but reasonable.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I mean, you're in Polarpanda's discord, aren't you? Shouldn't you know that her Nintendo ambassador fellow who knew about the Link's Awakening remake also said that Sakurai shot down Isaac regardless of his popularity on the ballot because of his irrelevancy?

And Sakurai said he rarely chooses characters without a future, right here.

IMAO, assuming this article is the real deal, Isaac ain't down and out if the fans yell loud enough.

 

[Deleted member]

Uhhhhh what’s going on?

 

[pupNapoleon]

As much as I'd love to talk about how a possible B-K pack would be like, there will always be issues brought up that have to be addressed. We can speculate in circles but that wont lessen or strengthen the clear and present chances our Bear and Bird have. None of us have any idea on the true motivations on why some "irrelevant" characters are added. To act like we know is just foolish. All we can do now is look at what we currently know. Tossing around Sakurai's words doesnt mean much these days, and neither do fan rules as well.

All of this is true, and had nothing to do with what I posted prior.

Uhhhhh what’s going on?

People are grumpy and rude.

Makes you think they should be online looking up puppies and bunnies.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Uhhhhh what’s going on?

I think a nerve was struck somewhere. Not really sure I just showed up with my last post.

 

[volbound1700]

I decided to break down mentally what the projected release windows would be for the remaining four fighters based on the development time of Joker. It could be totally wrong but speaking from what experience I have I can ascertain what the planning might be. Development time could vary wildly between each character, with an emphasis on stages, some stages took an upwards of an entire year to finish when Ultimate was being made.

• Character 2: June-July 2019
  This is an interesting one, it could be sooner but my best guess would be that we are going to get the next character during or after E3, a direct could happen anytime before E3 that can make an announcement of said character, maybe even just a tease with E3 doing a full character breakdown and doing a similar situation like Joker and dropping the DLC in a matter of days, that's not to say Jokers release sets any precedent but considering the development windows right now, June/July isn't far away.
• Character 3: August-October 2019
  My guess is this character is teased/announced at E3 running straight after the breakdown of Character 2, so we're getting 2 characters unveiled from say May to June, except the wait for this one could be a while. This one could be the biggest surprise package of the entire DLC season considering the reveal will be at E3, in fact I'm willing to bet character 3 will be the biggest name announced out of them all because of the timeframe. But don't expect this character until at least mid September or October.
• Character 4: October-December 2019
  This one is probably the most difficult to predict, as it could blend into October or be as late as early December, depends on when Character 3 is released. Again, sometime after character 3 is released we'd soon find out about this character in a direct, most likely in October.
• Character 5: Jan-Feb 2020
  Considering they've slated this to end in Feb 2020 I'd say this is the safest assumption that the final character will be released as late as February 2020.

Side note: Let go of Doom Slayer and MK characters, and I'm saying this as a die hard fan of both franchises, it simply isn't happening. Take an honest step back and assess it.

I think we will get two characters announced at E3 but then again I could be wrong.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I think we will get two characters announced at E3 but then again I could be wrong.

I said it in the Geno thread after that guy made some posts about E3 being amazing for Nintendo. And that it still leaves us in the same position we were before. If not even more unsure because what sort of announcement connected to the smash reveal(s) would overshadow the smash reveals.

 

[volbound1700]

In sales yes. It is also bigger than Zelda, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, and Street Fighter but I'd also say those franshies are more important and have had a bigger impact on gaming than minecraft. Halo was massively important for console FPS and online gaming, it has a really expansive lore, was an event when a new game came out (pre 4), and Master Chief is the face of the Xbox. If Chief was revealed to be playable in Ultimate, that would probably be the biggest character reveal ever given that he is a mascot of a rival console. Don't get me wrong, Minecraft is massivley big, just not in every way.

Agreed. I see Minecraft kind of like Angry Birds. None of the serious gamers are really playing it or into the franchise. It was a flavor of the month (although a big one). The Wii sports series is still even more popular than Minecraft but giving time, Halo, Sonic, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc. will out do Minecraft.

 

[SvartWolf]

I don't think BK is likely.. and i much more of the idea of steve and would rather have steve and yadda yadda...

That being said, i think that there is one way they could reveal Banjo Kazooie in smash and totally blow me away.

and thats is if in Banjo kazooie reveal trailer, banjo kazooie arent the real surprise.

like... think e3 timed direct. we start a smash trailer to start pumping teh public up, and we get one of those classic neutral trailers that we arent sure who could be the character, early on, after a fun cinematic, banjo kazooie gets revealed. poeple go insnae, yadda yadda, gameplay is shown yedde yedde. and then start sounding a tune in teh background that noone recognize... and gruntilda appears to challange banjo, is this a boss? but sometimes is off... this gruntilda doesn't look like anything youve seen before...

and then the trailer reveals Banjo threeie, developed by retro studios. apppearing in switch, windos 10 and xbox.

i have to admit that i would be pretty blown away by that.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

100%, precisely. Nobody knows what Sakurai's real criteria for choosing picks are from time to time. And he is known for also breaking fan made rules / patterns as well. There is no point in trying to analyze or understand how Sakurai does choose his picks. Anything is possible with him at this point.

Yeah, the guy changes his mind, he's not an unmoving stone statue. People are acting like he's a character whose personality changes every time a different writer handles him.

Anyone can change their mind on something sooner or later. "Only a fool wouldn't change his mind", as the old saying goes.

People are grumpy and rude.

Makes you think they should be online looking up puppies and bunnies.

The wait for E3's going to be long, seeing as most people feel compelled to keep being scotched to this forum.

 

[[Maple]]

Minecraft not influent? Are you guys out of your minds? Minecraft is probably the most influencial game of the decade. It pushed the sandbox/survival genre on the front. There is so many games who tried to make the same stuff. Plus Hytale is probably one of the most waited game of the year.

I'm a Banjo supporter, I don't give a banana about Minecraft, but it is the biggest game of the decade without a doubt.

Plus no serious gamers are playing Minecraft? What the hell is this sentence?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think BK is likely

Actually they kinda are. Given these banjo rumors starting to pop up before e3

But we’ll see

 

[TheCJBrine]

If Minecraft is flavor of the month, then Smash Bros. is already dead.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If Minecraft is flavor of the month, then Smash Bros. is already dead.

Me when a fan rule's broken:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Real talk though, even goddamn Pokémon was seen as a flavor of the month at some point.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The Wii sports series is still even more popular than Minecraft

I think we would've seen Switch Sports by now if that was true

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

The only truly "irrelevant" non-retro character that was added is King K. Rool, and he was added because of overwhelming fan support on the ballot. I think Banjo and Kazooie also have that in their favor, so we can't say their chances are less than Steve's, a character who was doubted by Microsoft staff and wasn't really requested at all by fans, at least on the ballot. Yes Steve is overall more relevant and popular, but that's clearly not the sole criteria.

 

[ProjectDream]

If you still can't see the case that there is inevitably going to be something Microsoft related in Smash soon after everything in the past few months, let alone few years up to now I really don't know what to tell you, I don't know how many more deals between Nintendo & Microsoft need to happen before one can expect it being a likely situation.

I'm with papagenos on this, the character pass are all outsiders, never before seen or in any way tied to Smash before or currently and from third parties. Yes, Atlus is owned by SEGA but it's too closed minded to believe that theyr'e dipping into the Square Enix/Capcom/Konami/SEGA well yet again for this fighter pass, horizons are being expanded on this.

 

[Nazyrus]

The only truly "irrelevant" non-retro character that was added is King K. Rool, and he was added because of overwhelming fan support on the ballot. I think Banjo and Kazooie also have that in their favor, so we can't say their chances are less than Steve's, a character who was doubted by Microsoft staff and wasn't really requested at all by fans, at least on the ballot. Yes Steve is overall more relevant and popular, but that's clearly not the sole criteria.

The way I see it, Banjo and Kazooie are literally the next Ridley / K rool in terms of high demand.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Do I buy this to make a blood sacrifice for Banjo in smash?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do I buy this to make a blood sacrifice for Banjo in smash?
View attachment 210861

No. You buy it cause you want to support the character and/or cause you like the character. Blood sacrifices are silly.

 

[MissingGlitch]

No. You buy it cause you want to support the character and/or cause you like the character. Blood sacrifices are silly.

I was just making a joke. This is a used game shop so no money would be going to Microsoft anyway.

 

[TheZoologist]

Do I buy this to make a blood sacrifice for Banjo in smash?
View attachment 210861

The soundtrack for Nuts n’ Bolts was amazing though.

 

[GrungeMan]

It's been mentioned here a while back about how awesome it would be if B&K came with a codec/guidance like feature in which a Grunty dialogue box shows up during battle and she drops a sick rhyme dissing your character.

But did any one want to come up with an example?

I thought that would be a fun game to come up with a Grunty rhyme roasting your main.

I'll have to think of one for Diddy!

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Minecraft not influent? Are you guys out of your minds? Minecraft is probably the most influencial game of the decade. It pushed the sandbox/survival genre on the front. There is so many games who tried to make the same stuff. Plus Hytale is probably one of the most waited game of the year.

I'm a Banjo supporter, I don't give a banana about Minecraft, but it is the biggest game of the decade without a doubt.

Plus no serious gamers are playing Minecraft? What the hell is this sentence?

So is Tetris. You could say the exact same thing about Tetris. But influence doesn’t automatically mean Smash inclusion.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It's been mentioned here a while back about how awesome it would be if B&K came with a codec/guidance like feature in which a Grunty dialogue box shows up during battle and she drops a sick rhyme dissing your character.

But did any one want to come up with an example?

I thought that would be a fun game to come up with a Grunty rhyme roasting your main.

I'll have to think of one for Diddy!

Tons of those were brought up in this thread before.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

The way I see it, Banjo and Kazooie are literally the next Ridley / K rool in terms of high demand.

Agreed. Banjo & Kazooie are starting to look like K. Rool with all the fan art and support popping up now. Just like Rool it warms my heart to see them getting so much support after all these years