Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[dlewis53]

Unless we get an announcement at the game awards, I wouldn’t expect any news until after Piranha Plant releases. In fact, we might get some sort of news along with the announcement of Piranha Plant’s release date. Similar to how we didn’t know any other DLC info besides Mewtwo during Smash 4, but when they finally unveiled his trailer, we found out about Lucas, the fighter ballot, etc. So if that’s the case again, I wouldn’t expect anything until around at least February

Pretty much this. I really don't see us getting any sort of announcement at the Game Awards; at the very least, it'll be around February or March before we get the first Fighter Pass character.

 

[StormC]

I really don’t see a possibility that Nintendo employees accidentally put Rare Spirits in the game. I need a better reason than that.

 

[MAtgSy]

I wouldn’t underestimate Perfect Dark

When PD came out on XBLA, I couldn't find anybody to play online with in mere days. Not even a full week. Meanwhile I could pop in Quantum of Solace the Wii version and near immediately found a full game.

PD ain't Goldeneye, not even remotely.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

When PD came out on XBLA, I couldn't find anybody to play online with in mere days. Not even a full week. Meanwhile I could pop in Quantum of Solace the Wii version and near immediately found a full game.

PD ain't Goldeneye, not even remotely.

I would agree, but with the licensing nightmare of Rare Goldeneye, Perfect Darkis a nice alternative

 

[okamifire]

While the two Rare games in the code (potential spirits?) is strange, I don't think it's possible that Nintendo thought they might have owned those series and did that by accident. It's possible it was part of a DLC or base game content that was scrapped, but I would be hard pressed to believe that they accidentally put them in and had to remove them because they didn't realize that Rare owned them.

 

[Thunderfang747]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Rare's copyright itself found in the datamine as well? That should immediately put to rest any notion that nintendo employees made a mistake thinking it was their property.

 

[okamifire]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Rare's copyright itself found in the datamine as well? That should immediately put to rest any notion that nintendo employees made a mistake thinking it was their property.

Yeah, it was in a few spots, to my understanding. I don't think they'd have to list it for something like DK or K. Rool. Sure, it could still be music or spirits to be added if Steve is added, but I don't recall hearing about Mojang / Microsoft copyrights, which would seemingly also be in there were that the case, yeah?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

There is a theory on /v/ right now that the "Minecraft content" seen in Smash by Verg's source was actually the cubivore pig.

Would be hilarious if the whole Steve thing was nothing more than a mistake

 

[Thunderfang747]

From my understanding, the Donkey Kong franchise belongs to Nintendo so they would not need Rare's stamp for K. Rool. Afterall, Rare created Diddy Kong as well and they weren't credited in Brawl, Super Mario Party, Double Dash, or any other of the many games Diddy's in. On the topic of Mojang though I'm not entirely sure. I feel like if Steve were to be planned, I don't think Mojang would need to be credited until after he was unveiled. I'm not certain that means anything.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Didn't they constantly credit Rare for models of Donkey Kong in the credits of Smash Bros and Mario Kart back in the N64 days? Could just be they're crediting Rare for the SNES and N64 era renders that were used for spirits.

Of course i'd be happy if it really was about future DLC.

 

[okamifire]

From my understanding, the Donkey Kong franchise belongs to Nintendo so they would not need Rare's stamp for K. Rool. Afterall, Rare created Diddy Kong as well and they weren't credited in Brawl, Super Mario Party, Double Dash, or any other of the many games Diddy's in. On the topic of Mojang though I'm not entirely sure. I feel like if Steve were to be planned, I don't think Mojang would need to be credited until after he was unveiled. I'm not certain that means anything.

Oh yeah, I totally agree that they wouldn't need to give copyright or credit until they were put in. My line of thinking though is if they're preparing to add Steve early on as DLC with those Rare songs / spirits / whatever, they probably would have left in references to Minecraft too. To me it either seems unrelated or (I hope not) scrapped text that means nothing. But to be honest, I don't think Rare would be cool with having their name referenced in a game they have nothing to do with, so I think this is something worth holding onto until we figure out what's up with all this.

Definitely not a lock or anything, but it's weird enough actual evident to get excited about.

 

[okamifire]

Didn't they constantly credit Rare for models of Donkey Kong in the credits of Smash Bros and Mario Kart back in the N64 days? Could just be they're crediting Rare for the SNES and N64 era renders that were used for spirits.

Of course i'd be happy if it really was about future DLC.

Hmmm... just checked and yeah. Melee had this:

Rare is definitely credited. So it is entirely possible that it's associated with prior DK content. What doesn't make sense though is the Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps references. (And I'm not sure if Rare is credited in Smash 4 or Brawl, which would be a better thing to check than Melee.)

 

[StormC]

Rare was credited back then because they still had co-ownership over DK content. Nintendo now owns it all lock stock and barrel, except some DKR stuff.

 

[Thunderfang747]

Didn't they constantly credit Rare for models of Donkey Kong in the credits of Smash Bros and Mario Kart back in the N64 days? Could just be they're crediting Rare for the SNES and N64 era renders that were used for spirits.
Of course i'd be happy if it really was about future DLC.

I actually didn't know they were credited back then, thanks for the correction. That said, I really don't think that matters these days. In case I am wrong though, was Rare credited in Mario Super Sluggers for the Wii or that weird Wii bongo racing game? K. Rool appeared in both so if Rare isn't credited there, I don't see why they would need to be credited now.

Oh yeah, I totally agree that they wouldn't need to give copyright or credit until they were put in. My line of thinking though is if they're preparing to add Steve early on as DLC with those Rare songs / spirits / whatever, they probably would have left in references to Minecraft too. To me it either seems unrelated or (I hope not) scrapped text that means nothing. But to be honest, I don't think Rare would be cool with having their name referenced in a game they have nothing to do with, so I think this is something worth holding onto until we figure out what's up with all this.

Definitely not a lock or anything, but it's weird enough actual evident to get excited about.

I see your point now, and I sure hope so. Here's to hoping this really is the lead we have been waiting for!

 

[vaanrose]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Rare's copyright itself found in the datamine as well? That should immediately put to rest any notion that nintendo employees made a mistake thinking it was their property.

There is no Rare copyright in the game. What is in the game is 12 songs credited to Rare, which corresponds to the 12 DKC and DK64 songs in the game. They are all credited like this:

bgm_copyright_0010:
Composer: Rare Limited
The copyrights related to the composition and arrangement of this song belong to Nintendo Co., Ltd.

Nintendo fully owns the copyright to the songs and can do whatever they please with them, but the songs were originally composed by Rare LTD and that's why they're credited as such.

 

[Juliusaurus]

I believe some original DKC tracks in Brawl and 4 were still credited with their composers as "RARE", that could be what's up. But then again, yeah, Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini throw a wrench into everything, in a good way!

 

[Thunderfang747]

There is no Rare copyright in the game. What is in the game is 12 songs credited to Rare, which corresponds to the 12 DKC and DK64 songs in the game. They are all credited like this:

bgm_copyright_0010:
Composer: Rare Limited
The copyrights related to the composition and arrangement of this song belong to Nintendo Co., Ltd.

Nintendo fully owns the copyright to the songs and can do whatever they please with them, but the songs were originally composed by Rare LTD and that's why they're credited as such.

Well there goes that idea, thanks for the correction. Guess we will just have to hope something comes out of the Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps data.

 

[Theclintguy]

Welcome to the Banjo-Kazooie support thread! Join the support on Discord!

Credit to Smashified and Sean Hicks for the original renders.

20 Years of Collecting!

N64 - 1998

N64 - 2000

GBA - 2003

Spoiler: Other Games

Diddy Kong Racing
Banjo Pilot
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing

Spoiler: Moveset

Statistics
Size: Around Mario's height.
Weight: Around R.O.B.
Gravity: Around Ness.
Jump Count: Three.
Jump Height: Around Mario.
Jump Speed: Around Pikachu.
Air Speed: Around DK.
Walk Speed: Around Olimar.
Dash Speed: Around Shulk.
Traction: Around G&W.
Mirrored

Gimmicks
Feathery Flap
Kazooie assists with the third jump by flapping her wings, holding the button will slow your decent for a short time.
Egg Swop
Eggs play a vital role in Kazooie's arsenal, you can cycle through various egg types by holding shield and pressing special.

Standard Attacks
Standard Combo - Claw Swipe
Banjo swipes up to three times with his claws and finishes with a strong blow.
Forward Tilt - Peck
Banjo leans forward and Kazooie thrusts out and upwards to attack with her beak.
Up Tilt - Wing Whack
Kazooie swipes her wings above Banjo twice, slicing through the air.
Down Tilt - Beak Barge
Banjo crouches and slides forward as Kazooie thrusts her beak along the ground.
Dash Attack - Forward Roll
Banjo curls up and rolls across the ground as Kazooie wraps her wings around him.

Smash Attacks
Forward Smash - Breegull Bash
Banjo pulls Kazooie out of the backpack completely and slams her down on the ground. Has decent range but slow startup.
Up Smash - Beak Bayonet
Banjo pulls Kazooie out and thrusts her upwards, attacking with her beak. Hits from in front to above Banjo.
Down Smash - Bear Spin
Banjo does a quick spin kick, similar to Mario's down smash.

Misc Attacks
Ledge Attack
Banjo flings himself onto the ledge sideways, allowing Kazooie to swipe her beak along the ground.
'Get Up' Attack
Banjo spins and kicks while jumping to his feet.

Aerial Attacks
Neutral Aerial - Pack Wack
Banjo swings his backpack in a circle around himself, can be jumped out of.
Forward Aerial - Rat-a-tat Rap
Banjo lowers his head and Kazooie pecks forward three times, slows descent.
Up Aerial - Bear Flip
Banjo does a flip kick in the air with a wide upward range.
Down Aerial - Beak Buster/Bill Drill
Banjo curls up and plummets downward to slam with Kazooie's beak. Holding the attack button charges the duo into a spin for more damage.
Back Arial - Wing Wack
Kazooie thrusts her wings backwards in a quick motion that sends the duo forward slightly.

Grab 'N' Throws
Grab - Taxi Pack
Banjo swings his backpack forward and catches the opponent in it, has slower startup and decent range.
Pummel
Kazooie pecks at the opponent from within the backpack.
Forward Throw - Wonder Wing
Kazooie wraps her wings around the opponent and uses gold feathers to send them flying.
Up Throw - Flap Flip
Banjo throws the opponent into the air then backflips with help from Kazooie, kicking them away.
Down Throw - Bill Drill
Banjo slams the opponent on the ground then Kazooie drills into them with her beak.
Back Throw - Egg Lay
Banjo tosses the opponent backwards and Kazooie quickly lays an egg into them.

Special Moves
Neutral Special - Egg Fire/Egg Lay
Banjo crouches down and Kazooie fires an egg if you tap the button, or lays an egg if you hold the button.
(Blue)
Quick rate of fire, far range, low damage, three projectile count.
(Fire)
Moderate rate of fire, moderate range, moderate damage, two projectile count. Causes fire effects.
(Ice)
Slow rate of fire, medium range, medium damage, two projectile count. Freezes at high damage.
(Battery)
Middling rate of fire, range, and damage, two projectile count. Causes shock damage, stunning opponents.
(Grenade)
Pitiful rate of fire, low range, high damage, single projectile count. Splash damage can harm Banjo.
(Clockwork Kazooie)
Single shot, no range. Hatches a mini Clockwork Kazooie that wanders around the stage before exploding.

Side Special - Wonder Wing
Kazooie wraps her wings around Banjo and uses gold feathers to make the duo invulnerable as they lunge forward. High damage, low speed.

Up Special - Flight Pad
Kazooie spreads her wings and takes to the sky, functions like Pit's Brawl recovery.
Pressing special again will fire eggs as long as you're flying, pressing attack initiates a Beak Bomb that sends the duo flying forward.

Down Special - Talon Trot
Kazooie will spring out onto her feet to give Banjo a rest, this move has no hitbox but allows the duo to quickly run around.

Final Smash - Mighty Jinjonator
Catching someone with your final smash triggers a cutscene where The Mighty Jinjonator rises from Grunty's Tower and attacks.

Misc Aspects
Entrance
Warps in on the entrance pad from Banjo-Kazooie.
Idle1
Banjo looks around as Kazooie peeks out of the backpack.
Idle 2
Kazooie pops out and pecks at Banjo's head.
Idle 3
Kazooie attempts to peck at Banjo but gets caught.
Taunt 1
Banjo gives a thumbs up and makes his iconic "Guh-huh!"
Taunt 2
Kazooie makes her iconic "Breegul!" noise and flaps her wings lightly.
Taunt 3
Banjo waves a Jiggy around before Kazooie grabs it.
Victory 1
Banjo does the Jiggy dance from Banjo-Kazooie.
Victory 2
Banjo plays his namesake instrument as Kazooie plays a kazoo.
Victory 3
Banjo and Kazooie bow multiple times.
Victory Jingle
Jiggy Fanfare.

​

Nintendo never should’ve let Rare go. Banjo would’ve already been in a smash game I bet!

 

[okamifire]

There is no Rare copyright in the game. What is in the game is 12 songs credited to Rare, which corresponds to the 12 DKC and DK64 songs in the game. They are all credited like this:

bgm_copyright_0010:
Composer: Rare Limited
The copyrights related to the composition and arrangement of this song belong to Nintendo Co., Ltd.

Nintendo fully owns the copyright to the songs and can do whatever they please with them, but the songs were originally composed by Rare LTD and that's why they're credited as such.

Thanks for the clarification on this! That definitely makes sense. Do you have any insight that we're overlooking regarding the Jet Force Gemini / Blast Corps thing?

 

[vaanrose]

Thanks for the clarification on this! That definitely makes sense. Do you have any insight that we're overlooking regarding the Jet Force Gemini / Blast Corps thing?

The games are listed in the list of represented franchises, that much is true, but they have no content in the game. No spirits or songs or anything else.

I ran an international trademark lookup on Star Twins and Blast Dozer, the Japanese titles for Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps, and I did manage to find evidence Nintendo might still own the trademark for Star Twins in Japan, though I couldn't find any evidence for Blast Dozer.

Spoiler

I do think there is credence to the theory that Nintendo might have, at one point, assumed they owned the IPs before realizing that they don't.

 

[okamifire]

The games are listed in the list of represented franchises, that much is true, but they have no content in the game. No spirits or songs or anything else.

I ran an international trademark lookup on Star Twins and Blast Dozer, the Japanese titles for Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps, and I did manage to find evidence Nintendo might still own the trademark for Star Twins in Japan, though I couldn't find any evidence for Blast Dozer.

Spoiler

I do think there is credence to the theory that Nintendo might have, at one point, assumed they owned the IPs before realizing that they don't.

I wonder, maybe Microsoft never bothered renewing the trademark until recently. Depending on when development of SSBU started, maybe Nintendo *did* have ownership then and since Microsoft recently applied for the trademark (https://m.ign.com/articles/2016/01/22/microsoft-renews-jet-force-gemini-trademark seems to indicate it happened in 2015/2016), they had to scrap it? Honestly it doesn't really make sense, and while I'm hoping it's hinting at Rare DLC coming, I do think it's reasonable to think there might be something else going on.

 

[vaanrose]

I wonder, maybe Microsoft never bothered renewing the trademark until recently. Depending on when development of SSBU started, maybe Nintendo *did* have ownership then and since Microsoft recently applied for the trademark (https://m.ign.com/articles/2016/01/22/microsoft-renews-jet-force-gemini-trademark seems to indicate it happened in 2015/2016), they had to scrap it? Honestly it doesn't really make sense, and while I'm hoping it's hinting at Rare DLC coming, I do think it's reasonable to think there might be something else going on.

Rare owned the US Trademark for Jet Force Gemini before it eventually changed ownership to Microsoft proper. The reason for the confusion seems to be based solely on the fact that the Japanese titles for these games are different and therefore technically a separate trademark. The IP itself was always owned by Rare before being purchased by Microsoft, Nintendo never owned that.

 

[StormC]

Rare owned the US Trademark for Jet Force Gemini before it eventually changed ownership to Microsoft proper. The reason for the confusion seems to be based solely on the fact that the Japanese titles for these games are different and therefore technically a separate trademark. The IP itself was always owned by Rare before being purchased by Microsoft, Nintendo never owned that.

There's no evidence though that they would think they own the Blast Dozer trademark, is there?

 

[vaanrose]

There's no evidence though that they would think they own the Blast Dozer trademark, is there?

I couldn't personally find a Japanese trademark for Blast Dozer in Nintendo's name, but I did have to do my searching through a third party site, since I couldn't find an official database like the one the U.S. trademark office has.

 

[volbound1700]

You don't need to file to own a copyright under US Law. Filing's only benefit is that it is public evidence of ownership to help prove ownership in a court of law. Rare did not forfeit any IP right by not filing. However, since Rare was contracted by Nintendo to make DKC series, it is likely that all DKC property was owned by Nintendo unless the agreement stated otherwise. Nintendo was the lead producer. It is similar to if you work for a company and you file a copyright that you developed in the regular course of business. This copyright would be the company's copyright and not your own IP.

Honestly, the fact that Nintendo doesn't own Banjo was a mistake on their part. They should have called out in the agreement with Rare that all IP developed by Rare for Nintendo should have been Nintendo's IP since Nintendo was paying for the products.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

Hmmm... just checked and yeah. Melee had this:
View attachment 179912
Rare is definitely credited. So it is entirely possible that it's associated with prior DK content. What doesn't make sense though is the Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps references. (And I'm not sure if Rare is credited in Smash 4 or Brawl, which would be a better thing to check than Melee.)

Rare was definitely credited in Brawl.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

You don't need to file to own a copyright under US Law. Filing's only benefit is that it is public evidence of ownership to help prove ownership in a court of law. Rare did not forfeit any IP right by not filing. However, since Rare was contracted by Nintendo to make DKC series, it is likely that all DKC property was owned by Nintendo unless the agreement stated otherwise. Nintendo was the lead producer. It is similar to if you work for a company and you file a copyright that you developed in the regular course of business. This copyright would be the company's copyright and not your own IP.

Honestly, the fact that Nintendo doesn't own Banjo was a mistake on their part. They should have called out in the agreement with Rare that all IP developed by Rare for Nintendo should have been Nintendo's IP since Nintendo was paying for the products.

Nintendo DID own the copyright/IP rights to the Banjo-Kazooie games, but to make the sale of Rare more enticing to Microsoft, they offered the series as part of the package deal.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

Rare owned the US Trademark for Jet Force Gemini before it eventually changed ownership to Microsoft proper. The reason for the confusion seems to be based solely on the fact that the Japanese titles for these games are different and therefore technically a separate trademark. The IP itself was always owned by Rare before being purchased by Microsoft, Nintendo never owned that.

Rare always owned the trademark/copyright rights to Jet Force Gemini/Star Twins locally and abroad-

As for Blast Corps/Blast Dozer, it seems to be a bit muddied-

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I've heard and read that back in 2002 when the buyout happened, Nintendo retained ownership of everything Rare created for the Donkey Kong Franchise and Star Fox Adventures/Dinosaur Planet and in exchange Rare got to keep all of their original IP's such as Banjo-Kazooie and got reclassified as Microsoft 1st Party franchises under the Xbox brand.

 

[TheAnvil]

You don't need to file to own a copyright under US Law. Filing's only benefit is that it is public evidence of ownership to help prove ownership in a court of law. Rare did not forfeit any IP right by not filing. However, since Rare was contracted by Nintendo to make DKC series, it is likely that all DKC property was owned by Nintendo unless the agreement stated otherwise. Nintendo was the lead producer. It is similar to if you work for a company and you file a copyright that you developed in the regular course of business. This copyright would be the company's copyright and not your own IP.

Honestly, the fact that Nintendo doesn't own Banjo was a mistake on their part. They should have called out in the agreement with Rare that all IP developed by Rare for Nintendo should have been Nintendo's IP since Nintendo was paying for the products.

Nintendo did own Banjo. They did however not own Lanky, Tiny, Chunky, K. Lumsy or some of the other DK64 characters. There was a switcheroo of sorts when Rare was bought by Microsoft.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

This should clear things up a little bit.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Nintendo did own Banjo. They did however not own Lanky, Tiny, Chunky, K. Lumsy or some of the other DK64 characters. There was a switcheroo of sorts when Rare was bought by Microsoft.

This should clear things up a little bit.View attachment 179930View attachment 179931

Only the non-Kongs haven't been used by Nintendo in some way after the buyout. Lanky, Tiny and even Chunky got used by Nintendo sooner or later years after the buyout (well, they never used Chunky at all until his Ultimate spirit appearance).

The contractual process of the Rare buyout was shaky enough that Diddy Kong is the only Kong from the original hero trio to infamously not have a trophy in Melee.

 

[TheAnvil]

I find it unrealistic that Nintendo would choose to include Jet Force and Blast Corps spirits with no intent to include anything from Diddy Kong Racing, which would be far more reasonable to assume they'd get confused over.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

Only the non-Kongs haven't been used by Nintendo in some way after the buyout.

False. Check again.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

I find it unrealistic that Nintendo would choose to include Jet Force and Blast Corps spirits with no intent to include anything from Diddy Kong Racing, which would be far more reasonable to assume they'd get confused over.

Everything but Diddy, Dixie, Tiny, and Krunch are owned by Rare, that's why.

DKVine article-

https://web.archive.org/web/20140903091513/http://www.dkvine.com/?p=359

 

[TheAnvil]

Everything but Diddy, Dixie, Tiny, and Krunch are owned by Rare, that's why.

DKVine article-

https://web.archive.org/web/20140903091513/http://www.dkvine.com/?p=359

View attachment 179942

I know, but it'd be far more reasonable for some Nintendo employees to assume Nintendo owned say Taj (he was set to appear in Donkey Kong Racing after all) from a DIDDY KONG game, than from the obviously Rare-owned Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini. Both of which were just on Rare Replay.

 

[JonSmash]

i saw someone tweet " This fan remix of “Final Battle - Banjo-Kazooie” got copyright struck by NINTENDO OF AMERICA?? Coincidence or conspiracy? "

sounds weird if true

 

[okamifire]

i saw someone tweet " This fan remix of “Final Battle - Banjo-Kazooie” got copyright struck by NINTENDO OF AMERICA?? Coincidence or conspiracy? "

sounds weird if true

Looking on YouTube there are plenty of Final Battle versions that didn't get copyrighted. The only thing I can think of is if they maybe used an Ultimate branding or preview image, which my guess is one of the things Nintendo is looking for. The entire current music list has been leaked and floating out there and there's nothing indicating a current track for Banjo Kazooie, I can't imagine why Nintendo would just pull random YouTube videos unless the graphic used was for some reason Smash related.

 

[SneakyLink]

Looking on YouTube there are plenty of Final Battle versions that didn't get copyrighted. The only thing I can think of is if they maybe used an Ultimate branding or preview image, which my guess is one of the things Nintendo is looking for. The entire current music list has been leaked and floating out there and there's nothing indicating a current track for Banjo Kazooie, I can't imagine why Nintendo would just pull random YouTube videos unless the graphic used was for some reason Smash related.

I think it was a channel that, in anticipation of the September direct, uploaded fan remixes for Isaac, Geno, and Banjo.
They each had the Ultimate logo.

 

[TheAnvil]

I think it was a channel that, in anticipation of the September direct, uploaded fan remixes for Isaac, Geno, and Banjo.
They each had the Ultimate logo.

It was the Banjo video that got flagged though as far as we're aware.