Banjo-Kazooie Mafia: Grunty's Back! Game Over! Did Grunty win in the end?

[Orboknown]

What's a ninja?

Role that cannot be tracked or watched as visiting/a visitor

 

[sneakytako]

It is a naturally human reaction to someone being an ******* to be annoyed. Not exclusively scum.

Additionally, you can't just say you're playing scummy but it's not actually scummy because you're not scum. Aint how it works, friend.

I can and I did. You seem to be alone to think that my day 2 actions point to scum.

 

[Kaladin]

Let it be known that Sneaky says he's not scum because he's not scum.

 

[RadicalRat]

Seems odd that we'd have a Town Tracker with a Mafia Ninja, so I'd say the chances of both Sneaky being Town, and the Mafia having a Ninja are incredibly slim, and can be discounted.

Unless there's something that makes you think otherwise, Orbo?

 

[RadicalRat]

I mean, I clearly stated that I knew I was playing scummy, because I was pretty much confirmed town

This makes no sense whatsoever.
Why would you play scummy if you're "confirmed Town"

It's just plain stupid.

 

[Orboknown]

Seems odd that we'd have a Town Tracker with a Mafia Ninja, so I'd say the chances of both Sneaky being Town, and the Mafia having a Ninja are incredibly slim, and can be discounted.

Unless there's something that makes you think otherwise, Orbo?

Whats countering the tracker/watcher ckmbo then? Theres literally nothing else i can think aside from maybe a rber that would be there to counter that and sneaky eould have been rbd n1 if that was the case.

 

[RadicalRat]

Whats countering the tracker/watcher ckmbo then? Theres literally nothing else i can think aside from maybe a rber that would be there to counter that and sneaky eould have been rbd n1 if that was the case.

But that'd be imbalanced, wouldn't it? Have the Ninja do all the killing, and they're untraceable.

To me it seems most likely, given Bard's claim and Gheb's flip, that the way this game was balanced was with a Town Watcher and Mafia Tracker.

Which leaves Sneaky as the prime suspect.

 

[RadicalRat]

One other thing that really bothers me about Sneaky...

Also, my tracker results came up negative, but I'm not going to say who I investigated to alleviate confusion.

Why DIDN'T you tell us who you tracked to begin with? You say it's too alleviate confusion, but how does saying "Well, SOMEONE didn't visit anyone, but I'm not saying who." do anything but create MORE confusion? Which, I might add, is the Mafia's goal: Create confusion

 

[Orboknown]

Yeah but if the ninja doed the tracker and watcher **** mafia up. Or if the watcher and tracker die the ninja is pointless

 

[Orboknown]

Also how does tracker counter watcher?

 

[RadicalRat]

Also how does tracker counter watcher?

It's not so much countering, as giving both sides similar abilities.

 

[RadicalRat]

Like... neither are negated, but with that power at the disposal of both, yet only on alternating nights, it seems fair to me.

I am pretty new to DGames though.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

RadicalRat, what's your stance on Orbo/sneakytako/Generic?

 

[Kaladin]

Almost finished with Rake defense, but duty calls. Expect it in about 5 hours.

 

[#HBC | J]

"My what a pretty witch am I, Soon you will all die."

~Day 3 Vote-count 3.1~​

1. Orboknown (0)
2. RadicalRat (0)
3. TheKingofKoopas (0)
4. sneakytako

(2) Generic, RadRat
5. Maven89 (0)
6. *GenericHandle*

(1) Moosy
7. MoosyDoosy (0)

Not Voting (4): Orbo, Koopa, Sneaky, Maven

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to vanquish!
Deadline is set for Sunday 10/11 at Midnight MST!​

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Am I the only one unconvinced by generic?

I mean, I clearly stated that I knew I was playing scummy, because I was pretty much confirmed town. Also my reasoning for playing antagonistic should be pretty solid, only scum should have been upset day 2.

So what do you wish to do about this? What part of Generic's defense was unconvincing and what's your "numbers" on him now?

 

[RadicalRat]

RadicalRat, what's your stance on Orbo/sneakytako/Generic?

Orbo was a solid Town Read at the beginning of toDay, but I'm feeling him more nulltown now.

Sneaky is a scum lean, he's done lots of questionable things that have already been brought up, and I don't care to re-explain unless clarification is necessary.

Generic is nullscum, but if you flip Scum, he'll be first on my lynch list toMorrow.
Likewise, if Generic flips Scum, you'll be first.


For now though, I'd like to focus on Sneaky.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Orbo was a solid Town Read at the beginning of toDay, but I'm feeling him more nulltown now.

Sneaky is a scum lean, he's done lots of questionable things that have already been brought up, and I don't care to re-explain unless clarification is necessary.

Generic is nullscum, but if you flip Scum, he'll be first on my lynch list toMorrow.
Likewise, if Generic flips Scum, you'll be first.


For now though, I'd like to focus on Sneaky.

Could I persuade you to focus on Generic?

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Yeah, I’m unimpressed by your defense right now Generic. You definitely weren’t pretending to be angry at that moment in the thread and that was your genuine reaction. You only tried to revoke it once Maven called you out.

Another thing I noticed was that you were subtly supporting my push onto Zaixl by asking me to restate my argument and liking my posts. On the other hand, when BarD was the lynch, you tried to start a wagon on tako’s claim and divert as much as possible from him.

I'll wait for your Rake defense but I really think you're scum right now.

 

[Kaladin]

Yeah, I’m unimpressed by your defense right now Generic. You definitely weren’t pretending to be angry at that moment in the thread and that was your genuine reaction. You only tried to revoke it once Maven called you out.

Another thing I noticed was that you were subtly supporting my push onto Zaixl by asking me to restate my argument and liking my posts. On the other hand, when BarD was the lynch, you tried to start a wagon on tako’s claim and divert as much as possible from him.

I'll wait for your Rake defense but I really think you're scum right now.

I can see your point. I'm on mobile right now, but let me ask you something.

Your point against me is that I allegedly tried to prevent a Bard lynch. Wouldn't it follow, then, that a point for me is that I tried to prevent the Rake lynch? Rake defense will go up when I get to a physical keyboard.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Radical, understand this from my perspective. You tried to scumread me at the start of the game for voting on Rake when I didn’t even know about the hammer voting system. This is why I constantly said that you’re making a big deal out of nothing - I thought that votes were tallied at EoD and that was the lynch and that my vote at that time had no bearing as it wasn’t serious. Now you’re suspicious of my every move when I’m trying to hunt scum. It gets irritating especially when all you’re doing is making snide comments at every step I try to take without actually searching for scum yourself. You say that you want to focus on tako but I don’t really see you actively looking for things that make him Mafia.

Also, Generic is just objectively more scummy than tako. Either way, I highly doubt that they can be Mafia together so finding out the alignment of one should hint us into the alignment of the other. It’s also just that lynching into tako who’s a potential blue role seems really stupid especially when there’s no counter claim.

 

[Kaladin]

Yeah, I’m unimpressed by your defense right now Generic. You definitely weren’t pretending to be angry at that moment in the thread and that was your genuine reaction. You only tried to revoke it once Maven called you out.

Another thing I noticed was that you were subtly supporting my push onto Zaixl by asking me to restate my argument and liking my posts. On the other hand, when BarD was the lynch, you tried to start a wagon on tako’s claim and divert as much as possible from him.

I'll wait for your Rake defense but I really think you're scum right now.

Also, please consolidate your arguments into bullet points so I can deal with them efficently, so we can get back to scumhunting.

 

[Orboknown]

Like... neither are negated, but with that power at the disposal of both, yet only on alternating nights, it seems fair to me.

I am pretty new to DGames though.

thats not quite how balance works lol.

Orbo was a solid Town Read at the beginning of toDay, but I'm feeling him more nulltown now.

Sneaky is a scum lean, he's done lots of questionable things that have already been brought up, and I don't care to re-explain unless clarification is necessary.

Generic is nullscum, but if you flip Scum, he'll be first on my lynch list toMorrow.
Likewise, if Generic flips Scum, you'll be first.


For now though, I'd like to focus on Sneaky.

Can you explain the me/generic bits a tad?

 

[MoosyDoosy]

sneakytako
I'd actually like to hear why exactly you think Orbo is Mafia or if you even hold to that read anymore.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Maven89
You have free hard townreads on you. Do something with them.

 

[Maven89]

I'm reading up the other game then I'm going to read up in this one

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Points on GenericHandle

1. Lurking for most of the game and not contributing.
2. Putting doubt on sneakytako’s claim and starting a wagon on him when the alternative is scum!BarD.
3. Abrupt read change on sneakytako. (scum ---> confirmed town ---> scum)
a. Scumreading sneakytako for fishing for reasons to scumread Rake makes no sense as sneakytako did have reasons that he posted.
b. Scumreading sneakytako solely for the flip is not a reason for an abrupt 180 change in direction.
4. Subtly supporting my push on town!Zaixl for a mislynch. When BarD was the main wagon, sneakytako had attempted to divert from him.
5. One of the last few people to vote on the BarD wagon when it became inevitable.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Forgot to add this:

6. Small thread analysis. So far no one has willingly and immediately voted for Generic. If Generic had been town, Mafia would have jumped at a chance to force a mislynch through. As it is, no one is really stepping forward and doing this. This means that Generic is Mafia and his teammate is attempting to push off of Generic or is currently inactive.

 

[RadicalRat]

Sorry! I was watching a movie, I'll have a response to everyone up soon!

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I can see your point. I'm on mobile right now, but let me ask you something.

Your point against me is that I allegedly tried to prevent a Bard lynch. Wouldn't it follow, then, that a point for me is that I tried to prevent the Rake lynch? Rake defense will go up when I get to a physical keyboard.

I have to wait for your defense first before effectively answering this.

 

[Kaladin]

Points on GenericHandle

1. Lurking for most of the game and not contributing.
2. Putting doubt on sneakytako’s claim and starting a wagon on him when the alternative is scum!BarD.
3. Abrupt read change on sneakytako. (scum ---> confirmed town ---> scum)
a. Scumreading sneakytako for fishing for reasons to scumread Rake makes no sense as sneakytako did have reasons that he posted.
b. Scumreading sneakytako solely for the flip is not a reason for an abrupt 180 change in direction.
4. Subtly supporting my push on town!Zaixl for a mislynch. When BarD was the main wagon, sneakytako had attempted to divert from him.
5. One of the last few people to vote on the BarD wagon when it became inevitable.

Forgot to add this:

6. Small thread analysis. So far no one has willingly and immediately voted for Generic. If Generic had been town, Mafia would have jumped at a chance to force a mislynch through. As it is, no one is really stepping forward and doing this. This means that Generic is Mafia and his teammate is attempting to push off of Generic or is currently inactive.

1. Not really gonna contest this. I have been lurking, but I have contributed -- I tried and failed to stop a Rake lynch, I did things during D1 (don't remember what I did tbh lol, but I know I posted.) and now I'm dealing with Tako. Besides, lets have some logical consistency. If being inactive due to rl is a scum tell, then lets lynch Orbo and Koops, too.
2. Because sneaky's claimed seemed BS. You'd have called me on bandwagoning if I didn't. I will fully admit I was in the wrong for not going with a Bard lynch. My bad. But does being wrong on a read/voting incorrectly/mislynching someone/opposing a correct lynch make you scum? If so, I'm pretty sure J lied and there are 5 scum in this game -- you can find them on the flip post from yesterDay.
3.Already explained
a.At the time of my sneaky vote, he had posted no reasoning. Further, he pulled that earlier in the thread -- and never followed up with reasoning. His Rake push was solid, but it was wrong.
b. Straw man. There were two reasons I 180'd on him. Besides, that's just your opinion. I read what I want.
4. Typo on your end...? Please elaborate.
5. Because I honestly didn't think he was scum up until that point. I was wrong. You were wrong on Zax, and, by your own admission, would have tunneled him all Day toDay. Please, have some logical consistency.
6. Sure, lets run with that. Does that mean the early bandwagoners of Rake are scum as well?

Now, Rake.

GODDAMMMMMITTTTTTTTTT I computer, I swear to God, just crashed and deleted the second half of this post, AKA the first quarter of Rake defense... Ugh... I'll post this now, and start all the damned way over on Rake.

 

[Kaladin]

So irritated right now. Points I had so far, which I'm not going to re-quote are as follows:

Original Rake wagon was started by Moosy and Bardul, not Tako. Their Rake press continued to the end of D1, IIRC. I also quoted various Rake posts from D1 that we now know were valid town analysis. Well, back to it.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Okay, GenericHandle is definitely Mafia.

His defense against my posts aren’t attempting to explain why he did what he did but are attempts to attack the credibility of my points. This does not refute the points at all and is just an attempt to weasel out of explaining them.

Not only that, but this post makes no sense whatsoever:

So irritated right now. Points I had so far, which I'm not going to re-quote are as follows:

Original Rake wagon was started by Moosy and Bardul, not Tako. Their Rake press continued to the end of D1, IIRC. I also quoted various Rake posts from D1 that we now know were valid town analysis. Well, back to it.

Ignoring the fact that his abrupt read change on sneakytako made no sense, Generic said a reason for his “change” from scumreading sneakytako was that Rake flipped town. In this post Generic is rescinding his statement that sneakytako forced the Rake mislynch and is placing the blame on me and BarD. This basically removes his reason for scumreading sneakytako which is a contradiction to what he said before.

Also, if you read Generic’s recent posts to me, they’re in a tone that considers me as town. In this post he’s implying that I’m Mafia which is a switch that is convenient for him when he’s trying to throw off suspicion.

This post is just all wrong. Generic is Mafia.

 

[RadicalRat]

Radical, understand this from my perspective. You tried to scumread me at the start of the game for voting on Rake when I didn’t even know about the hammer voting system. This is why I constantly said that you’re making a big deal out of nothing - I thought that votes were tallied at EoD and that was the lynch and that my vote at that time had no bearing as it wasn’t serious.

Well, why didn't you just say so? I knew you were new ( Heh... knew... new... ), but I didn't realize you didn't get the hammer thing.

Now you’re suspicious of my every move when I’m trying to hunt scum. It gets irritating especially when all you’re doing is making snide comments at every step I try to take without actually searching for scum yourself. You say that you want to focus on tako but I don’t really see you actively looking for things that make him Mafia.

That's a solid point. I apologize for my snide comments, they're not meant to be personal, but I can definitely see how I can be irritating at times. That's my fault, I'll need to work on that.

Now then, I'm not actively looking for scum. That much is true. This is because, as far as I'm concerned, I've already found them.
I'm not solid on a second, but I'm confident in my SneakyTako read. The role logistics line up. The actions line up. It just makes sense. I'm trying to invite him to defend himself, but he hasn't been around much... So far his defense amounts to one thing: He led the BarDulL lynch. Which is great, but... he also led the Rake lynch, and intentionally withheld information from everyone throughout D2.

If he's a Mafia PowerRole, which makes the most sense to me right now, be him a legitimate Tracker, or some other investigator... I want him out of the picture before we go after the Goons.

Also, Generic is just objectively more scummy than tako. Either way, I highly doubt that they can be Mafia together so finding out the alignment of one should hint us into the alignment of the other. It’s also just that lynching into tako who’s a potential blue role seems really stupid especially when there’s no counter claim.

Generic is scummy. I agree. But Tako scares me more. If Generic's a Goon... easy. Just don't take what he says at face-value.

Tako, on the other hand... as a PowerRole, every night he lives is a night he greatly benefits Mafia. At least... every odd night( If that was truthful ). Which tonight is.

There being no counter claim is a tricky one.

If he's claiming a role that just does not exist... of course there's no counter claim.

Alternatively, if he IS an odd night Tracker... just not on the Town's side( Though Orbo believes there to be balance issues there )... No counter claim there either. Closest we had to a Tracker was Gheb, who was a Watcher so not a proper counter claim.

There's also the possibility that a potential counter claimer is simply afraid of being night killed if he reveals himself. When I was doing research on the MafiaScum Wiki, it seemed that claiming a role to draw out a counter claim to kill is, or at least was, a common practice among scum.

If he's telling the WHOLE TRUTH... he's playing very poorly, in my opinion.

 

[Kaladin]

Alright.

Bardull swapping the claim alone to try and mirror force sneaky's was worth a lynch. No one convieniantyl forgets an aspect of their role. Thats the type of **** I try to do as scum lol. Like whoops I forgot to mention "insert x bull**** here". bardull's probably scum. sneaky could be scum with him. Honestly dont care after this day. also bard saying sneaky tunneled him all day. is there like a new style of tunneling i havent seen coz, what happened today seems a far stretch.

Oh, look. Townie things.

Also, just as a final point I couldn't care less even if you were telling the truth, cause Im probably just going to spearhead sneaky being lynched tomorrow if he's not dead, just saying

Tako logic: I'm confirmed town, listen to me. Here we have mod confirmed town, saying what...?

3rdly, I'm going to explain my 503.

I do believe that rake is scum, but that wasn't the only reason why I made the play. I wanted to apply pressure by showing that I suspected rake before N1, to give them a very complicated WIFOU situation. I should have been the most obvious target for NK, but with me being so obvious it's common for scum to avoid me to avoid their NK getting nullified by doc. If rake was scum, it should have given them more reason to kill me, but it's a tough call on their part. By killing me they may have been afraid that it would be more clear that rake was scum. If rake was town, it should have given them less reason to kill me to keep me on the wrong path.

HOWEVER I'm still convinced that rake is scum.

This is bad and gives us more information. It's a guessing game of "am I alive because doc fear or because rake is town?" Because Rake is town.

I'm not going to explain why I think rake is scum, at least not yet. I want everyone else to consider why I think he's scum, and show me how town you are.

Also, my tracker results came up negative, but I'm not going to say who I investigated to alleviate confusion.

wtf is this and what does it even mean

Yeah.

Also if me and orbo were scum with bardull we would have lynched him eons before thread finally did. Sneaky trying to be the alpha player is literally laughable by saying "look d1 and you shall find the evidence". Guess what guys, there is none, his push is a farce and i'm not going to pay it any attention beyond pointing out said farce in this post. The fact sneaky can't even type out his reasoning should make it pretty obvious that either a) he has none and has no leg to stand on right now, seeing as his reasoning for me being scum in his earlier post was literally wifom based gibberish I still don't understand nor care to read over and over until I do and b) his magical push on me has started literally after I already stated I'd consider lynching him today if he wasn't dead as doornails.

Anyone who believes that sneaky is somehow guarenteed to be town due to all his shenanigans with Bardull should go back to the kiddy pool and play noobies

Eyup

vote sneaky

start the choo choo train till he's here boys

Oh look confirmed town doing things

pressure. he need sto post and defend hiszs ludicrous position, also, your bad, his lynch is literally the least ewasy with hopw everyone else is kinda saying things to him but not agressing because they are willing to believe what happened was all natural enough to read him as like cool probaly town aligned duder number 1
if you think im pushing a easy lynch with this you've massively misinterpreted me

mhm.

Now, I'm going to tackle that really big push on Rake in its own post. If anything involving Rake and his scumminess happened outside of that, bring it to my attention.

 

[Kaladin]

Okay, GenericHandle is definitely Mafia.

His defense against my posts aren’t attempting to explain why he did what he did but are attempts to attack the credibility of my points. This does not refute the points at all and is just an attempt to weasel out of explaining them.

Not only that, but this post makes no sense whatsoever:

Ignoring the fact that his abrupt read change on sneakytako made no sense, Generic said a reason for his “change” from scumreading sneakytako was that Rake flipped town. In this post Generic is rescinding his statement that sneakytako forced the Rake mislynch and is placing the blame on me and BarD. This basically removes his reason for scumreading sneakytako which is a contradiction to what he said before.

Also, if you read Generic’s recent posts to me, they’re in a tone that considers me as town. In this post he’s implying that I’m Mafia which is a switch that is convenient for him when he’s trying to throw off suspicion.

This post is just all wrong. Generic is Mafia.

Wrong. In D1, Rake was attacked by you Bard. D2 when he was lynched, not so much. I don't think you're mafia... soon yeah. Pretty hard town read, actually.

 

[RadicalRat]

Can you explain the me/generic bits a tad?

I haven't really liked your attitude for most of today. You seem really aggressive, and possibly even desperate?
Aside from that though, I've liked your content, so I can't say too much.


As for Generic... Well, after Moosy's recent posts I think he's a bit past nullscum. But his actions do have a potential Townie behind them. Last game, I thought for SURE he was scum... but I was proven wrong in due time. I've used that game's logs to try to compare, and he seems pretty consistent.

I said Moosy would be next if Generic flipped scum... recent posts tell me I was wrong about that being a distancing attempt.

 

[Kaladin]

Doosy, please directly attempt to refute my points. You are wrong; I will prove it.

 

[Maven89]

I just read up in the other game, time for this one

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Wrong. In D1, Rake was attacked by you Bard. D2 when he was lynched, not so much. I don't think you're mafia... soon yeah. Pretty hard town read, actually.

In your post you explicitly stated that the original wagon was started by me and BarD and that it was continued.

Well, why didn't you just say so? I knew you were new ( Heh... knew... new... ), but I didn't realize you didn't get the hammer thing.

lol, I didn’t know then which is why I couldn’t understand it. This is also why I’m townreading you because our initial fight was just a misunderstanding.

Also, if you think Generic will flip Mafia Goon, catching a Mafia is better than nothing. Also, I doubt that tako is a role. There is no reason for him to have called so much attention to himself if he had an important Mafia role. If he is Mafia (which I doubt) then he would be the Goon here. Either way, your posts say he is past nullscum so I do not see why you would not vote for him…?

Can you also link the game that you’re referencing to me. I’d like to have a look at them as well.