Bandana Dee, the Spear Master! (v(- ' ' -)>↑ ~ Dee wait is killing us...

[Furret24]

The Tourney ID is: 13812637076570

For what? Are we starting a tourney already?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's spear, not a sword. The sweetspot on the tip would always hit due to spears being thrusted, not swung. Also, no gimmiks. Remember how Pokemon Trainer turned out?

Some of Marth's moves have him stabbing as he's fencing.
PTrainer's gimmick wasn't necessarily bad as it was done before, it added 'stamina' which was bad

If Vega Dee is a thing, it should work like Robin's items. Oh, and BDee's moves will still need to be able to do damage, just with pitiful range

Looking back, either BDee needs to be hit a certain amount of times in a certain timespan or he needs a certain damage percentage. BDee's spear will simply respawn after a few seconds and not be an item. Like that we could accurately put Vega's style in

 

[Furret24]

Some of Marth's moves have him stabbing as he's fencing.
PTrainer's gimmick wasn't necessarily bad as it was done before, it added 'stamina' which was bad

Looking back, either BDee needs to be hit a certain amount of times in a certain timespan or he needs a certain damage percentage. BDee's spear will simply respawn after a few seconds and not be an item. Like that we could accurately put Vega's style in

I still think giving Bandana Dee gimmicks would make him unnecessarily complicated.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I still think giving Bandana Dee gimmicks would make him unnecessarily complicated.

He doesn't need a gimmick, no, but him being Vega would legitimately be awesome

 

[NintenZ]

For what? Are we starting a tourney already?

Yes, yes we are. And it's live right now!

 

[Deleted member]

While I don't think that he needs a gimmick, I was giving an idea on a possible play style.
The Marth argument is something that I find to be legitimate. Swords and spears are different, but Marth's play style is a fencing playstyle where the tip is the strongest in terms of damage and knockback.
Admittedly, my idea would need to be changed as @ Wintropy pointed out, since he is screwed against Villager and he would be fine on stages like FD and BF, but screwed on Palutena's Temple.

I think that we should work beyond "The spear will make him unique." The question is, Why will make him unique?
I am OK with or without Vega Dee, but I will still have it around as an idea because I think that it can work.

 

[MarioMeteor]

One thing bugged me... it was the Marth argument.
It was something that I admittedly couldn't counter really. The spear is what makes Bandana Dee unique, but it's still something like him having his strongest point be at the tip. I was then thinking of an extreme Marth, where damage and knockback are at the greatest at the tip and terribly weak everywhere else, but I didn't think that would be too appealing.

That's when I had an "AH HA!" moment. I found how Bandana Dee can represent a play style in another fighting game that is not represented in Smash.
May I present to you all Vega from Street Fighter 4:

If you notice something, after taking some damage, his claws come off! He will need to fight and pick them up; without those claws, his damage output is weaker.
I thought... what if Bandana Dee had this mechanic?
Bandana Dee without his spear would be much more crippled. His attacks would become pathetic and lack any sort of range. After taking enough damage, he would lose it. As a result, some of his specials are either inactive or severely weakened. While it might not make sense in context of the Kirby series, where he would throw his spear and gain a new one, it makes sense towards his character since he is a klutz. If someone else grabs his spear, they would use it as item and if Bandana Dee's spear is removed from play too long (as in, it was thrown off the stage), he would generate a new one.

This is different from Robin because Bandana Dee will always have his spear unless enough damage has been consecutively taken, unlike Robin who uses his Levin Sword and Tomes after a certain amount of times.

That is how we can counter the Marth argument...
By making a whole new play style unseen in Smash.

You don't have to agree with my idea and I understand if you don't like it. If you want, I can create a moveset for it.

I'm gonna have to actually say no on that. Seems way too complex and frankly, unnecessary. Besides, Bandanna Dee isn't just limited to his spear, he can use his feet and a parasol and such, which is more than can be said for Marth. And as @ NintenZ pointed out, one is fighting with a spear, a weapon used for stabbing, while the other is fighting with a sword, most commonly used for slashing.
And it's not like Sakurai is liberal with Marth clones or anything...

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

Ay I'm in first

 

[Furret24]

Yes, yes we are. And it's live right now!

Should we schedule a time where we all meet on it then, or did I already miss it?

 

[Yoshister]

I wish I could join, but some guy and I share the same Wii U. He's also online right now.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Who organized the tourney?

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

One thing bugged me... it was the Marth argument.
It was something that I admittedly couldn't counter really.
That is how we can counter the Marth argument...

Unintentional puns are the best.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Sorry to say that I can't take part in the tournament. I spend more than twice the amount of time on Smash 3DS, as that's more convenient for me.

If there's ever a 3DS quasi-tournament thing, let me know.

I agree. since I see him as fourth most likely to appear, and I think we WILL GET FOUR, he's nearly in already!

Our group would be very wise not to ever be complacent. Like BWD as I do, it's undeniable that he faces some potential hurdles, so it's certainly not a good idea to rest on our laurels and assume he will get in. (As I've said before, it's best to approach this as if it's the worst case scenario.)

 

[Deleted member]

If Vega Dee is a thing, it should work like Robin's items. Oh, and BDee's moves will still need to be able to do damage, just with pitiful range

Like LMac's aerials? ( which can be useful ) or like Fighter ability without the hadoken-esque attacks, less range and the tap or hold for different attacks (fighter kirby is ryu clone confirmed! )

 

[NintenZ]

Should we schedule a time where we all meet on it then, or did I already miss it?

It actually goes on for a while. I think we may want to put the ID in the PM. @ Chandeelure

Who organized the tourney?

It was me.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

It actually goes on for a while. I think we may want to put the ID in the PM. @ Chandeelure

It was me.

So when does this take place? As a Kirby main, this isn't something I can just miss out on.

 

[NintenZ]

So when does this take place? As a Kirby main, this isn't something I can just miss out on.

Right now.

 

[GhostlyLure]

So when does this take place? As a Kirby main, this isn't something I can just miss out on.

ayy Kirby mains

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Right now.

Right now?! Shoot, lemme add you!

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

@ Chandeelure @ NintenZ
Alrighty, so where's the tourney's ID?

...Is it too late to even join anymore?

 

[D-Man9293]

Our group would be very wise not to ever be complacent. Like BWD as I do, it's undeniable that he faces some potential hurdles, so it's certainly not a good idea to rest on our laurels and assume he will get in. (As I've said before, it's best to approach this as if it's the worst case scenario.)

Did I not say what I THINK? I said that I THINK he will get in, partly because of fan-opinion and support, partly because of other reasons, such as his recent popularity boost from the recent Kirby games. If he's ever Smashified, I think we can rest easy with the fact that he will have a larger chance of appearing in the game with more fans brought to the series, as well as more people who just want to see him in.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It actually goes on for a while. I think we may want to put the ID in the PM. @ Chandeelure

It was me.

Not to sound like a killjoy, but I don't suppose you could take off items?

 

[Jiggly]

I would love the parasol juggle as his grab, he does a poke with the parasol, and if it hits the opponent they get thrown on top of the parasol. His pummel would be pushing the umbrella upwards and do 3%.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Did I not say what I THINK? I said that I THINK he will get in, partly because of fan-opinion and support, partly because of other reasons, such as his recent popularity boost from the recent Kirby games. If he's ever Smashified, I think we can rest easy with the fact that he will have a larger chance of appearing in the game with more fans brought to the series, as well as more people who just want to see him in.

No need to shout, mate.

I only said that I don't believe it's wise to think that we can rest easy, and the reason I said it is because it's the very same thing I said in the face of similar statements in the K. Rool thread two days before the Mii costume showed up.

 

[GhostlyLure]

@ Yoshister Sorry I can't do this it's too laggy.

The tourney ID is

13812637076570

 

[Yoshister]

@ Yoshister Sorry I can't do this it's too laggy.

The tourney ID is

13812637076570

Dang. That was really fun.

 

[NintenZ]

@ Chandeelure @ NintenZ
Alrighty, so where's the tourney's ID?

...Is it too late to even join anymore?

No it's still possible, here's the tourney ID: 13812637076570

Not to sound like a killjoy, but I don't suppose you could take off items?

To be honest I want to but I don't know if I can. I never even intended for them to be on. Does anyone know if there's a way to turn them off?

 

[Wintropy]

To follow up on what I said earlier, there is more to Dee than just the spear. If you want to demonstrate that Dee has the potential to be a dynamic and fun character, then there are a million and one ways to do just that. As @ God Robert's Cousin has duly pointed out, Dee has tons of quirky tricks and canon tools to draw from: in addition to his trusty spear, he could fight with a parasol, apples, cannon, other Dees, other Kirby enemies, even more spears! The question here shouldn't be, "How does the spear make Dee unique?"; it should be, "How does Dee make the spear unique?"

Even if you just use the spear, there's tons of fun tricks you can do with it. What if his dash attack had him use the spear as a pole to vault ahead and then follow up with a downward thrust? What if his u-tilt got him to jump up on his spear and use it as a vantage point for a twirling kick? The spear is a very dynamic weapon with a myriad of uses: you shouldn't feel limited to "stick with a blade at the tip".

Even so, it would be a good idea for the campaign to detail other attributes of Dee beyond just "muh spear-users". Sakurai has more to his newcomer criteria than "who can best fill the spear-user niche?" Even if that was the case, there are quite a few spear-users to choose from: Dee could very easily be jilted in favour of the iconic antagonist Ganon or the cool new heroine Azura, since Sakurai could see them as a more attractive beau or belle than a red blob with a headscarf and pointy stick - incidentally, this is just an example of other spear-users rather than a jab at the characters, whom I support too. No, what makes Dee so memorable is that he's more than just a spear-user: he's the avatar of Dedede's army, the mouthpiece (if you will) for an elementary concept in the Kirby series, the enemies and helpers, which have been around since Kirby's debut! That could definitely catch Sakurai's attention and help him realise the merits of Dee.

Dee is a fine character and he has more than enough merit to justify his inclusion in Smash, but that seems to be the big issue for this campaign: the belief that his merits have to be justified to others. Honestly, I think Dee's most distinctive merit is the fact that he has so many fans that support him so intensely, and most important, civilly: you've helped transform Dee from a cute companion in a small handful of games to a character whose fanbase rivals that of K. Rool and Isaac in devotion and sharing the word. I think that, if you tried to rationally explain why you personally like Dee, rather than try to justify how "unique" he is, you would have even more fans to offer their support. If Dee gets in, it won't be because he's "soooo uniiiique" with his cool niche to fulfill himself. If Dee gets in, it will be because of people like you who supported him just because you love the character.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

If Bandana Dee ever does get in, I'm totally making my online tag "The Dee"

 

[MarioMeteor]

No it's still possible, here's the tourney ID: 13812637076570

To be honest I want to but I don't know if I can. I never even intended for them to be on. Does anyone know if there's a way to turn them off?

I think you might have to delete it and turn them off manually, because I haven't found a way to edit the rules once a tournaments been made.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

I think that, if you tried to rationally explain why you personally like Dee, rather than try to justify how "unique" he is, you would have even more fans to offer their support. If Dee gets in, it won't be because he's "soooo uniiiique" with his cool niche to fulfill himself. If Dee gets in, it will be because of people like you who supported him just because you love the character.

This is my preferred approach, but apart from my lapses into chatting game lore in here, I always tend to keep it aside, as it feels like moves, playstyle, and such seem to take precedent around these parts (not this thread specifically - just in general). Perhaps I've just gotten the wrong impression?

 

[NintenZ]

I think you might have to delete it and turn them off manually, because I haven't found a way to edit the rules once a tournaments been made.

Are you sure I should do that? We've already got the tournament under way and everything's set.

 

[Shadow Keebey]

Question time. What areas would you guys like to see from Kirby as Smash stages? I think Royal Road could make a good backdrop and have Taranza, Sectonia, and maybe even Shadow D3 and DMK appear in the background messing with the stage.

Taranza could temporarily mess with the controls of one character, Sectonia could fire lasers at certain areas of the stage, Shadow D3 could spin through the stage using the axe spin move, or fly over the stage firing the orbs from his stomach, and DMK could use his sword summon attack (the one where he summons giant silver Galaxias from the ground) or fire the huge at the stage.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Question time. What areas would you guys like to see from Kirby as Smash stages?

Castle Dedede! Kirby Super Deluxe gave its decor a nice look, so it could be modelled after this. It could perhaps shift between the main hallway itself, and the five boss arenas (Whispy Woods, Lololo & Lalala, Kracko, Kabula, and Dedede) that it leads to, with the icon for which one you're about to go to being highlighted in some way before the changeover.

Alternately, it could shift between four of the five arenas, and they could give the Boxing Ring stage another skin, since said stage already resembles Dedede's own boxing ring as it is.

 

[Chandeelure]

What's happening? XD
Well, my Internet is too slow for tourneys, maybe next time.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Are you sure I should do that? We've already got the tournament under way and everything's set.

It's your choice, although I think we should see if the participants are fine with it. If so, then go for it.

Question time. What areas would you guys like to see from Kirby as Smash stages? I think Royal Road could make a good backdrop and have Taranza, Sectonia, and maybe even Shadow D3 and DMK appear in the background messing with the stage.

Taranza could temporarily mess with the controls of one character, Sectonia could fire lasers at certain areas of the stage, Shadow D3 could spin through the stage using the axe spin move, or fly over the stage firing the orbs from his stomach, and DMK could use his sword summon attack (the one where he summons giant silver Galaxias from the ground) or fire the huge at the stage.

Another Dimension or Halcandra. Because they look cool. Castle Dedede would work as well.

 

[NintenZ]

What's happening? XD
Well, my Internet is too slow for tourneys, maybe next time.

Could we still add the ID into the PM?

 

[Shadow Keebey]

Castle Dedede! Kirby Super Deluxe gave its decor a nice look, so it could be modelled after this. It could perhaps shift between the main hallway itself, and the five boss arenas (Whispy Woods, Lololo & Lalala, Kracko, Kabula, and Dedede) that it leads to, with the icon for which one you're about to go to being highlighted in some way before the changeover.

Alternately, it could shift between four of the five arenas, and they could give the Boxing Ring stage another skin, since said stage already resembles Dedede's own boxing ring as it is.

I was thinking that, but Castle Dedede already appears in 8-bit form on the Dream Land stage, so that could cause a slight conflict. So they may have to modify the existing stage. If it wasn't for that, I could easily see the castle be a stage.

 

[Chandeelure]

Could we still add the ID into the PM?

If you are trying to say OP instead of PM... I don't know, that's not really necessary.

 

[NintenZ]

It's your choice, although I think we should see if the participants are fine with it. If so, then go for it.

Another Dimension or Halcandra. Because they look cool. Castle Dedede would work as well.

Nah, we have it all set up, plus some may like items, and they could always be ignored, so I think not.

If you are trying to say OP instead of PM... I don't know, that's not really necessary.

Yes I meant OP, sorry don't know how I screwed that up! XD