Bandana Dee, the Legend of Dee - Our Star Ally as DeeLC?! (v(- ' ' -)>↑

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Huh, ARMs character. Of all things, ARMs?

Pardon me, I'm just a bit baffled. ARMs wasn't super successful, and it's been quite some time, so I don't see what they have to advertise this (unless they announce a sequel).

On one hand, this could very well kill the spirit argument (heck, even the assist trophy argument, and if that's the case, here comes Waluigi). Altogether though, my thoughts? Well, I'll let Dr. Doofenshmirtz say it for me.

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Yeah, don't really care one way for the other. I guess I'm glad it's not a Gen 8 Pokemon, but there's always the chance. And if we do get Gen 8 Pokemon down the road, well, that'll serve as 3 reminders that we did indeed get 3 1st Party characters, and Bandana Dee is passed over for all of 'em. IDK, I guess disgruntled best summarizes me right now.
 

JCKirbs

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Honestly, I'm glad that ARMS didn't miss the mark for Ultimate, even if it isn't the most well-received title within the Switch's library.

I still think it has quite a few things worth appreciating, and Smash Bros. can definitely highlight those appreciative things; whether its the characters, music, and/or perhaps some of the gameplay mechanics found in the game. Plus, it's another franchise that hasn't been properly represented in Smash yet, so it's nice to see that Nintendo/Sakurai are still giving the game a second chance. Smash is a good place to advertise practically anything (for better or worse), after all.

Anyway, per usual, I've been wondering about what this means for Dee's chances, and... I'm actually a little more optimistic.
I originally thought that someone like Byleth would be the one to generate enough optimism, but if the cards are played right, an ARMS character could basically squash the biggest fan-made rules for good.

At this point, the only thing that could increase his chances even further is the announcement of a new Kirby game + motivation to promote it.
 
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Honestly, I'm glad that ARMS didn't miss the mark for Ultimate, even if it isn't the most well-received title within the Switch's library.

I still think it has quite a few things worth appreciating, and Smash Bros. can definitely highlight those appreciative things; whether its the characters, music, and/or perhaps some of the gameplay mechanics found in the game. Plus, it's another franchise that hasn't been properly represented in Smash yet, so it's nice to see that Nintendo/Sakurai are still giving the game a second chance. Smash is a good place to advertise practically anything (for better or worse), after all.

Anyway, per usual, I've been wondering about what this means for Dee's chances, and... I'm actually a little more optimistic.
I originally thought that someone like Byleth would be the one to generate enough optimism, but if the cards are played right, an ARMS character could basically squash the biggest fan-made rules for good.

At this point, the only thing that could increase his chances even further is the announcement of a new Kirby game + motivation to promote it.
I think this depends on the character chosen. If it's Spring Man himeslf, that means assist trophies are up on the table. Unfortunately, I think Waluigi beats us out for a promotion. Then there's Rex to think about. If ARMs, as late as it is, can get a fighter, Xenoblade 2 would have a shot as well. IDK how many 1st party characters are open for this pass...

On the other hand, if it's any of the characters that are only spirits, that is some good news for us, a lot less competition. Not to say there's anything wrong with the characters that'd otherwise be competition, just looking at it from a chances perspective.

I, however, think an ARMs sequel is possible, and the characters we'll get will be the main characters from this supposed sequel. TBH, if that's the case, I'll be rather annoyed. It'd come across as another advertisement plan. I suppose it's not too likely, because we haven't even had an ARMs teaser, and development on DLC has already started, but who knows when a supposed ARMs sequel started development...

In the end, I suppose it's a lot of "what ifs" and we should just wait and see. June is a bit away though, and it's a bit unfortunate that this is essentially our E3 character (or, in place of E3 anyways).
 

fogbadge

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Huh, ARMs character. Of all things, ARMs?

Pardon me, I'm just a bit baffled. ARMs wasn't super successful, and it's been quite some time, so I don't see what they have to advertise this (unless they announce a sequel).
i dont think its about advertisement as much as sakurai including a series he felt he missed his chance to include earlier
 

JCKirbs

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I think this depends on the character chosen. If it's Spring Man himeslf, that means assist trophies are up on the table. Unfortunately, I think Waluigi beats us out for a promotion. Then there's Rex to think about. If ARMs, as late as it is, can get a fighter, Xenoblade 2 would have a shot as well. IDK how many 1st party characters are open for this pass...

On the other hand, if it's any of the characters that are only spirits, that is some good news for us, a lot less competition. Not to say there's anything wrong with the characters that'd otherwise be competition, just looking at it from a chances perspective.

I, however, think an ARMs sequel is possible, and the characters we'll get will be the main characters from this supposed sequel. TBH, if that's the case, I'll be rather annoyed. It'd come across as another advertisement plan. I suppose it's not too likely, because we haven't even had an ARMs teaser, and development on DLC has already started, but who knows when a supposed ARMs sequel started development...

In the end, I suppose it's a lot of "what ifs" and we should just wait and see. June is a bit away though, and it's a bit unfortunate that this is essentially our E3 character (or, in place of E3 anyways).
I still think Waluigi's inclusion as DLC at this point would only occur out of pure fan-service. The demand is there, but isn't much to draw from in terms of promotion (nor anything that supports his prominence in comparison to characters like Toad or even King Boo). But, that's just my own opinion.

As for characters like Rex & Pyra, I actually think that they have a bigger shot because of an ARMS character, so I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo decided to play nice and give the Xenoblade fans what they want.

But yeah, I think competition in terms of 1st Parties may stem from how much Nintendo wants to promote certain games, which is why I'm hoping that a new Kirby game is on the horizon.

If ARMS does get a sequel, I don't even think it's going to be on the Switch. Even if it was, ARMS representation would probably reflect on how Splatoon handled its representation (mostly leaning towards the 1st title, while bringing in music and spirits for the sequel).

Regardless though, it's only a matter of time until we see what's really going on with ARMS x Ultimate
 
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i dont think its about advertisement as much as sakurai including a series he felt he missed his chance to include earlier
I suppose so, but I can't help but feel bad that ARMs is saved but characters like Chibi Robo don't seem as though they'll get a chance. Feels a little unfair., but I guess that's how it is sometimes.
I still think Waluigi's inclusion as DLC at this point would only occur out of pure fan-service. The demand is there, but isn't much to draw from in terms of promotion (nor anything that supports his prominence in comparison to characters like Toad or even King Boo). But, that's just my own opinion.

As for characters like Rex & Pyra, I actually think that they have a bigger shot because of an ARMS character, so I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo decided to play nice and give the Xenoblade fans what they want.

But yeah, I think competition in terms of 1st Parties may stem from how much Nintendo wants to promote certain games, which is why I'm hoping that a new Kirby game is on the horizon.

If ARMS does get a sequel, I don't even think it's going to be on the Switch. Even if it was, ARMS representation would probably reflect on how Splatoon handled its representation (mostly leaning towards the 1st title, while bringing in music and spirits for the sequel).

Regardless though, it's only a matter of time until we see what's really going on with ARMS x Ultimate
Ah, so I guess in the end it's only natural as a Bandana Dee fan to be incredibly skeptical. :laugh:
 

Meteorite

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The spirits deconfirm theory is about to be shattered, this can only be good for Dee. ARMS was poorly represented at launch. Modern Kirby is also poorly represented.

Huh, ARMs character. Of all things, ARMs?

Pardon me, I'm just a bit baffled. ARMs wasn't super successful...
It sold 2 million copies and was a requested character for the base roster.
 
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The spirits deconfirm theory is about to be shattered, this can only be good for Dee. ARMS was poorly represented at launch. Modern Kirby is also poorly represented.



It sold 2 million copies and was a requested character for the base roster.
Huh, perhaps I'm only looking at it compared to Breath of the Wild or Super Mario Odyssey, though it's hard for any game to be as big as that...
 
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its ok, itd be nice if we got spring man or ribbon girl to simultaneously break the mii costume and spirit theories blown out the water just a teensy bit of hope
Not only costumes and spirits, assist trophies too. Sucks that this is the last DLC pass for Smash. Killing all 3 rules would be very interesting long term.
 
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I feel like having two first party characters revealed in a row should be a sign of good things to come, but eh...

I can't help but get the feeling that when it comes to DLC newcomers, Nintendo only choose to go for first party picks when it comes to something they're interested in promoting. It happened with Byleth and Nintendo pushing Fire Emblem Three Houses. It's happening again with ARMS and the resurgence Nintendo is attempting to give it (free week + a new tournament). Hell, if you want to go back to Smash 4, the only first party newcomer there was Corrin due to Fire Emblem Fates launching at around the same time.

But when you look at things, I feel as if Kirby has never been a series Nintendo has ever felt the need to ever really market. I genuinely don't think Nintendo has ever tried to push the series as a major release on a worldwide scale in the same vein as Mario, Zelda, or even on the same level as they currently are Fire Emblem and ARMS today, since probably Kirby's days on the SNES.

Even if there is a new Kirby game in the works, even if Bandana Waddle Dee has undeniably not only been established as a main character in the series, but one of HAL's most important characters, even if Bandana Waddle Dee has been one of the most requested Smash fighters for years now, even if spirits aren't a deconfirmation for a character anymore, I still just can't find myself to believe that he's in the pass because of Nintendo's refusal to promote the series heavily on a worldwide scale and Sakurai's refusal to acknowledge any significant Kirby content outside of his own games.

I'm rambling at this point, but as always, I'm going to keep hoping for the best. I'd love to see the guy in, whether it's due to how he'd be a great fighter with a unique moveset or just thinking of the great stage and music possibilities to pull from games in the Kirby series outside of Dream Land, Adventure, Super Star, and Air Ride. It's really tough wanting a whole bunch of first party characters, but knowing that most aren't going to get in because they're not super high priority, like Rhythm Heaven.
 

fogbadge

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I feel like having two first party characters revealed in a row should be a sign of good things to come, but eh...

I can't help but get the feeling that when it comes to DLC newcomers, Nintendo only choose to go for first party picks when it comes to something they're interested in promoting. It happened with Byleth and Nintendo pushing Fire Emblem Three Houses. It's happening again with ARMS and the resurgence Nintendo is attempting to give it (free week + a new tournament). Hell, if you want to go back to Smash 4, the only first party newcomer there was Corrin due to Fire Emblem Fates launching at around the same time.

But when you look at things, I feel as if Kirby has never been a series Nintendo has ever felt the need to ever really market. I genuinely don't think Nintendo has ever tried to push the series as a major release on a worldwide scale in the same vein as Mario, Zelda, or even on the same level as they currently are Fire Emblem and ARMS today, since probably Kirby's days on the SNES.

Even if there is a new Kirby game in the works, even if Bandana Waddle Dee has undeniably not only been established as a main character in the series, but one of HAL's most important characters, even if Bandana Waddle Dee has been one of the most requested Smash fighters for years now, even if spirits aren't a deconfirmation for a character anymore, I still just can't find myself to believe that he's in the pass because of Nintendo's refusal to promote the series heavily on a worldwide scale and Sakurai's refusal to acknowledge any significant Kirby content outside of his own games.

I'm rambling at this point, but as always, I'm going to keep hoping for the best. I'd love to see the guy in, whether it's due to how he'd be a great fighter with a unique moveset or just thinking of the great stage and music possibilities to pull from games in the Kirby series outside of Dream Land, Adventure, Super Star, and Air Ride. It's really tough wanting a whole bunch of first party characters, but knowing that most aren't going to get in because they're not super high priority, like Rhythm Heaven.
i have to disagree, both 1st party characters are not about who nintendo want to push. we all know sakurai love fire emblem hence byleth and he himself told us that he wanted to include an arms character hence the character now. also i see nintendos attitude towards kirby as they see him as one of their bigger series, not the biggest but still pretty big. nintendo love kirby, bandana's only real problem lies with sakurai
 

Meteorite

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I can't help but get the feeling that when it comes to DLC newcomers, Nintendo only choose to go for first party picks when it comes to something they're interested in promoting. It happened with Byleth and Nintendo pushing Fire Emblem Three Houses. It's happening again with ARMS and the resurgence Nintendo is attempting to give it (free week + a new tournament).
I don't get this argument, ARMS is a three year old game that already has plenty of marketing and strong sales, saying it's being "promoted" by being in Smash because of a demo is like saying Terry was a promotion because Neo Geo games were discounted on the e-shop when he was released or that Hero was a promotion because of DQXI S's demo even though both come from legacy series. If Bandana Dee finally came out and all the Kirby games were discounted on the e-shop or a demo was released in collaboration, it wouldn't be because Kirby needs promotion.
 
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nintendo's not ignoring it, sakurai is
Because he hasn't added any Kirby content to the Smash games that isn't from his games? I could see that. But some people argue he had something against DKC for years since it has been treated poorly in Smash and it took us 19 years to get 3 reps and one Assist Trophy.
 

fogbadge

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Because he hasn't added any Kirby content to the Smash games that isn't from his games? I could see that. But some people argue he had something against DKC for years since it has been treated poorly in Smash and it took us 19 years to get 3 reps and one Assist Trophy.
yeah but theres nothing to suggest nintendo is ignoring bandana
 
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I don't get this argument, ARMS is a three year old game that already has plenty of marketing and strong sales, saying it's being "promoted" by being in Smash because of a demo is like saying Terry was a promotion because Neo Geo games were discounted on the e-shop when he was released or that Hero was a promotion because of DQXI S's demo even though both come from legacy series. If Bandana Dee finally came out and all the Kirby games were discounted on the e-shop or a demo was released in collaboration, it wouldn't be because Kirby needs promotion.
I'm not trying to say that ARMS is a small series and doesn't deserve its place in Smash, nor am I trying to say that the inclusion of an ARMS character in the game is solely because of the demo. My point is primarily that Nintendo has suddenly gone from not caring about ARMS for years to suddenly being back to giving it a full load of marketing (tournament announced out of literally nowhere on Monday, Smash character announced yesterday, the game being completely free for the week) even beyond solely Smash, with even more likely to come.

Considering this extreme 180 turn of theirs, I find it unlikely they aren't trying to rebuild some steam for ARMS in order to turn it into a bigger IP of theirs and of course, to get more people to buy it. Making two million copies over the course of three years is great, but if Nintendo really wants to make it a bigger IP of theirs, it could always use more promotion. This goes for literally any IP they have. It wouldn't surprise me if a sequel to the game or some big new update was coming along because of it.

Nintendo is just trying to continue support of an IP. It may not be as apparent as say, Byleth + Corrin and the Fire Emblem series. But putting an ARMS character in Smash undeniably increases interest in the series, which even if not the primary reason why an ARMS character is being included, is a beneficial reason for Nintendo nonetheless. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is something I just don't think Nintendo would prioritize for the Kirby franchise.

I don't think the comparison to third party series means much here considering ARMS is not only a much younger franchise than both Dragon Quest and Fatal Fury, but the franchise is also Nintendo owned, meaning Nintendo gets more out of it then they would a third party inclusion.

Again, this is just me being really pessimistic. In happier news, here's a really silly short I saw the other day involving Aqua Team Hunger Force:
 
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Well, my annoyance at Byleth's inclusion has dwindled... kind of. Personally, I kind of hope they throw a curveball and make this into a Hero/Bowser Jr. and Koopalings situation.

As for B.W.D., I must say that I'm feeling... quite a bit more optimistic for him and characters in a similar boat as him (i.e. Dixie Kong).

But when you look at things, I feel as if Kirby has never been a series Nintendo has ever felt the need to ever really market. I genuinely don't think Nintendo has ever tried to push the series as a major release on a worldwide scale in the same vein as Mario, Zelda, or even on the same level as they currently are Fire Emblem and ARMS today, since probably Kirby's days on the SNES.
You know, it's funny. I've heard rumors that THIS right here is why the Kirby anime wasn't all that promoted here in the West. Nintendo supposedly felt like Kirby just didn't need that big of a push. Resulting in things like the JP soundtrack not being used in the English version (unlike Pokemon, where all its music was left intact).

https://www.siliconera.com/kirby-se...take-on-the-pink-puffball-and-hal-laboratory/

I also came across a neat interview with Shinya Kumazaki and Tadashi Kamitake (producer of most Kirby games of recent memory) about HAL's 40th anniversary and just who Kirby is to them and what he is to them.

Honestly? I have to say that it's really heartwarming to see them speak so positively about Kirby. Especially Kumazaki, who feels blessed to have taken up the series in Sakurai's absence. It's also pretty cool to see them acknowledge things like the series' current lore as one of the interesting aspects of the franchise right now, Kirby practically being an invincible superhero, as well as the fact that despite being an adorable god-killer, he's very sweet and easy to get along with.
 
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FP6 being from ARMS is something I'm glad about; it shows they're still interested in Nintendo characters. However, there's a chance it'll be Dr. Coyle, who doesn't have a spirit. If it is her, then it'll probably mean spirits can't be upgraded.

Based on that, I'm hoping the ARMS rep is Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Min Min, Twintelle, or Ninjara.
 
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So with this quarantine I don't suppose we will meet the deadline. But I just wish things where back to normal. On another note if this pass just ends up being just "advertisement" then the new Kirby game has to be ready before the pass finishes. Otherwise probability seems at 40% IMO. Hope I'm wrong.
 

fogbadge

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So with this quarantine I don't suppose we will meet the deadline. But I just wish things where back to normal. On another note if this pass just ends up being just "advertisement" then the new Kirby game has to be ready before the pass finishes. Otherwise probability seems at 40% IMO. Hope I'm wrong.
well we dont have an advertisement so far so its doubtfull
 

FancySmash

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Hmm, so I didn't notice until shortly, but the SiIvagunner channel uploaded a high quality rip for Waddle Dee: Star Allies
Heh, if only, right? If Waddle Dee's had their own game we'd be looking really well right now!

Looks at Dixie Kong's Double Trouble and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

...now I just made myself sad again remembering that Nintendo All-Stars with their own games are still ignored. It's not fair. :crying:
 

smashkirby

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Hmm, so I didn't notice until shortly, but the SiIvagunner channel uploaded a high quality rip for Waddle Dee: Star Allies
Heh, if only, right? If Waddle Dee's had their own game we'd be looking really well right now!

Looks at Dixie Kong's Double Trouble and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

...now I just made myself sad again remembering that Nintendo All-Stars with their own games are still ignored. It's not fair. :crying:
I've said it before, and I'll say it many times more. Kirby Mass Attack should have been the Waddle Dees' 'spotlight game'. Heck, B.W.D. could have been leading the troops in that game!
 

FancySmash

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I've said it before, and I'll say it many times more. Kirby Mass Attack should have been the Waddle Dees' 'spotlight game'. Heck, B.W.D. could have been leading the troops in that game!
You know, it's kinda funny, I always thought Kirby Mass Attack was a better Pikmin game than Hey! Pikmin. :laugh: I also have to wonder why the game didn't bring back the red Squeakers. Guess they were just too underused in Squeak Squad, being cut as an enemy and only used for Smash Ride.
 

FancySmash

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yeah whens tingle
An also ignored choice that I think would work rather well. He's had a good number of spin-off titles, and he's even a recognizable recurring character in the Zedla series. He's probably in the top 3 for Zelda characters I'd personally pick for Smash, and this is coming from someone who lives in the West, where Tingle isn't really liked all that much (I have no problem with him actually. He was a nice enough guy in Majora's Mask, but they made his character greedier as time went on.)

This leads to the point that Bandana Dee really needs his own Subgame in the future, like Meta Knightmare or Dedede Tour.
 
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An also ignored choice that I think would work rather well. He's had a good number of spin-off titles, and he's even a recognizable recurring character in the Zedla series. He's probably in the top 3 for Zelda characters I'd personally pick for Smash, and this is coming from someone who lives in the West, where Tingle isn't really liked all that much (I have no problem with him actually. He was a nice enough guy in Majora's Mask, but they made his character greedier as time went on.)

This leads to the point that Bandana Dee really needs his own Subgame in the future, like Meta Knightmare or Dedede Tour.
All of this being said, it REALLY doesn't help that Star Allies was apparently going to be Bandana Waddle Dee's Extra Mode debut, before it got changed up to be Kirby's answer to Sonic Generations (Not that I'm complaining, of course).
 
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All of this being said, it REALLY doesn't help that Star Allies was apparently going to be Bandana Waddle Dee's Extra Mode debut, before it got changed up to be Kirby's answer to Sonic Generations (Not that I'm complaining, of course).
Oof, though I'd kinda think it'd make more sense for Rainbow Curse to be his Extra Mode debut. I mean, he plays Kirby's Luigi throughout the entire game, he and Kirby are basically the main characters. Though if it weren't for the Dream Friends in Star Allies, I also get him being the second main character in this game too, since, Dedede and Meta Knight are only gonna join after fighting them.
 
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