Bandana Dee, the Legend of Dee - Our Star Ally as DeeLC?! (v(- ' ' -)>↑

JCKirbs

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Um... could I hear your ideas?
I'd be happy to share.

Story: Dream Land is nearly in complete ruins as a mysterious attacker lays waste to the once peaceful Planet Pop Star. It is revealed that Kirby was already doing whatever he could to fend off the invading menace. But to no avail did he succeed, as the attacker used a final devastating blast to send Kirby soaring far away. With Dream Land in trouble, the defeated Kirby must travel through several worlds in order to return and take down the unknown entity who threatens the land. The fate of Dream Land, Pop Star, and the entire universe rests in his hands yet again...

Gameplay: Kirby's new adventure sets him in a completely 3D environment, featuring platforming, puzzles, and challenges for him to face along his journey.
While the levels themselves follow a linear path, the size of the stages would allow for a bit more exploration via sub-areas and branching paths.
While plenty of enemies lie in wait for Kirby's arrival, Kirby also has the ability to talk to certain NPCs within stages (with "..." over their heads) and accept tasks, missions, and challenges from them in exchange for collectibles used to progress through the game.

Tasks may include odd-jobs such as Mint Leaf Raking and Apple Picking
Missions may include minigames such as Wheelie Racing
Challenges revolve specifically on the utilization of certain Copy Abilities for assignments such as "Clear Piles of Snow using the Fire ability"

Bosses: While staples like Whispy Woods return with a trick or two up their sleeves, new baddies connected to the mysterious destroyer try to defeat Kirby themselves. Each boss has multiple phases, with each phase bringing something new to the Boss's arsenal and making their inevitable defeat slightly more difficult to achieve. By defeating bosses, Kirby gains objects and items for use towards defeating the Final Boss.

These are just a few of my base ideas for my ideal 3D Kirby game.
 
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I'd be happy to share.

Story: Dream Land is nearly in complete ruins as a mysterious attacker lays waste to the once peaceful Planet Pop Star. It is revealed that Kirby was already doing whatever he could to fend off the invading menace. But to no avail did he succeed, as the attacker used a final devastating blast to send Kirby soaring far away. With Dream Land in trouble, the defeated Kirby must travel through several worlds in order to return and take down the unknown entity who threatens the land. The fate of Dream Land, Pop Star, and the entire universe rests in his hands yet again...

Gameplay: Kirby's new adventure sets him in a completely 3D environment, featuring platforming, puzzles, and challenges for him to face along his journey.
While the levels themselves follow a linear path, the size of the stages would allow for a bit more exploration via sub-areas and branching paths.
While plenty of enemies lie in wait for Kirby's arrival, Kirby also has the ability to talk to certain NPCs within stages (with "..." over their heads) and accept tasks, missions, and challenges from them in exchange for collectibles used to progress through the game.

Tasks may include odd-jobs such as Mint Leaf Raking and Apple Picking
Missions may include minigames such as Wheelie Racing
Challenges revolve specifically on the utilization of certain Copy Abilities for assignments such as "Clear Piles of Snow using the Fire ability"

Bosses: While staples like Whispy Woods return with a trick or two up their sleeves, new baddies connected to the mysterious destroyer try to defeat Kirby themselves. Each boss has multiple phases, with each phase bringing something new to the Boss's arsenal and making their inevitable defeat slightly more difficult to achieve. By defeating bosses, Kirby gains objects and items for use towards defeating the Final Boss.

These are just a few of my base ideas for my ideal 3D Kirby game.
this sounds a lot like a 3D RPG, not so much a 3D platformer. then again, it also sounds kinda Mario Odyssey-like, and that's a platformer so...
 

JCKirbs

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this sounds a lot like a 3D RPG, not so much a 3D platformer. then again, it also sounds kinda Mario Odyssey-like, and that's a platformer so...
I mean, the core gameplay will consist of pure platforming, yeah.
It's just that I included those other gameplay elements to spice up the gameplay beyond just platforming, like how games such as Mario Galaxy and Mario Odyssey went about doing so.

Y'know, even after all this time and after all of the DLC characters we've gotten so far, I'm pretty glad that people still hold Bandana Dee to a decent enough regard so that he's not completely shunned and disrespected in Smash Speculation nowadays.

Because I think it'd be easy enough to give up on supporting or wanting him after Ultimate has gotten the likes of Banjo, Terry, and Joker, but it's just comforting to see people still standing by his side against others who may still think too negatively towards him. Not to mention that they also recognize that's he's not just an ordinary Waddle Dee, and that his strengths and personality would still fit right in the world of Smash.

It's just... nice. :)
 
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Y'know, even after all this time and after all of the DLC characters we've gotten so far, I'm pretty glad that people still hold Bandana Dee to a decent enough regard so that he's not completely shunned and disrespected in Smash Speculation nowadays.

Because I think it'd be easy enough to give up on supporting or wanting him after Ultimate has gotten the likes of Banjo, Terry, and Joker, but it's just comforting to see people still standing by his side against others who may still think too negatively towards him. Not to mention that they also recognize that's he's not just an ordinary Waddle Dee, and that his strengths and personality would still fit right in the world of Smash.

It's just... nice. :)
Now that you mention it, it does give me a rather warm and fuzzy feeling of happiness inside to see B.W.D. not totally ridiculed by the Smash fandom even after all of the DLC we've gotten so far. Of course, there's still Deetractors out there, but in general? It looks like the little guy being in Smash hasn't been totally written off as a crackpot idea by the general public apparently.

While I'm here, how about I bless this thread with the sweet sound of precious little Waddle Dees?


 
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Y'know, even after all this time and after all of the DLC characters we've gotten so far, I'm pretty glad that people still hold Bandana Dee to a decent enough regard so that he's not completely shunned and disrespected in Smash Speculation nowadays.
I couldn't disagree much more with that statement. 90% of the things I hear about him that don't come from anyone in this thread ever since he got deconfirmed are "He's a Hat Goomba" or "LOL PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT A WADDLE DEE WHAT A BAD PICK" or "Boring/Uninspired", with the Deetractors gaining competitive players like JoSniffy and more and more big youtubers like Nathaniel Bandy and Jwittz as if it's the hip trend to make people think you're cool. Even ignoring them, all I hear is "Hat Goomba Hat Goomba Hat Goomba", and... they've convinced me. Seeing how many more people hate him and there are so many more people happy to see him not on the roster than there would be to see him on the roster is demoralizing on one point. The fact that everyone continues to say this after Piranha Plant, along with Sakurai's Modern Kirby neglection makes it worse. The last leg Bandana Dee had to stand on was that there were zero spear users, and then Byleth took that slot.

It all has me convinced that Bandana Dee is no longer the main character that he used to be up until the release of Star Allies, but a Goomba with a Hat like everyone else has been saying. :(

Edit: Like you guys aren't even realizing how bad it is. There are so many people who would rather have an actual Goomba with a Hat. an actual Bowser foot soldier who exists to get stomped by Mario, but wearing headgear. It's that bad.

Edit 2: Ok I’ve done some thinking and maaaaay have blown it out of proportion a bit, but I still believe that the detractors are more of a problem than anyone gives them credit for. If anyone wants to ignore me, that’s fine. I can see why.
 
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fogbadge

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I couldn't disagree much more with that statement. 90% of the things I hear about him that don't come from anyone in this thread ever since he got deconfirmed are "He's a Hat Goomba" or "LOL PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT A WADDLE DEE WHAT A BAD PICK" or "Boring/Uninspired", with the Deetractors gaining competitive players like JoSniffy and more and more big youtubers like Nathaniel Bandy and Jwittz as if it's the hip trend to make people think you're cool. Even ignoring them, all I hear is "Hat Goomba Hat Goomba Hat Goomba", and... they've convinced me. Seeing how many more people hate him and there are so many more people happy to see him not on the roster than there would be to see him on the roster is demoralizing on one point. The fact that everyone continues to say this after Piranha Plant, along with Sakurai's Modern Kirby neglection makes it worse. The last leg Bandana Dee had to stand on was that there were zero spear users, and then Byleth took that slot.

It all has me convinced that Bandana Dee is no longer the main character that he used to be up until the release of Star Allies, but a Goomba with a Hat like everyone else has been saying. :(

Edit: Like you guys aren't even realizing how bad it is. There are so many people who would rather have an actual Goomba with a Hat. an actual Bowser foot soldier who exists to get stomped by Mario, but wearing headgear. It's that bad.
boy thats terrible and unfortunately i dont have anything reassuring to say. though i think at this point "hat goomba" is just a meme, something people repeat endlessly without meaning just cause other people are saying it.

but i can emphasise, a lot of characters i want arent to popular, people are always ignoring toad and chibi in favour of someone else
 

JCKirbs

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I couldn't disagree much more with that statement. 90% of the things I hear about him that don't come from anyone in this thread ever since he got deconfirmed are "He's a Hat Goomba" or "LOL PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT A WADDLE DEE WHAT A BAD PICK" or "Boring/Uninspired", with the Deetractors gaining competitive players like JoSniffy and more and more big youtubers like Nathaniel Bandy and Jwittz as if it's the hip trend to make people think you're cool. Even ignoring them, all I hear is "Hat Goomba Hat Goomba Hat Goomba", and... they've convinced me. Seeing how many more people hate him and there are so many more people happy to see him not on the roster than there would be to see him on the roster is demoralizing on one point. The fact that everyone continues to say this after Piranha Plant, along with Sakurai's Modern Kirby neglection makes it worse. The last leg Bandana Dee had to stand on was that there were zero spear users, and then Byleth took that slot.

It all has me convinced that Bandana Dee is no longer the main character that he used to be up until the release of Star Allies, but a Goomba with a Hat like everyone else has been saying. :(

Edit: Like you guys aren't even realizing how bad it is. There are so many people who would rather have an actual Goomba with a Hat. an actual Bowser foot soldier who exists to get stomped by Mario, but wearing headgear. It's that bad.
Yeah, I definitely think it was worse back then, but now I feel that it's a different story.
My primary platform of social media is Twitter, and of course there's a lot of buzz about Smash Speculation there.

I think Piranha Plant still lessened the grip on the "generic" argument, and even Byleth helped the community realize that 1st Parties are still fair game for DLC, and that there shouldn't be any gatekeeping in that area.

As of now, I don't even think Smashtubers or even big names in the Nintendo community could make a dent into Bandana Dee's level of support because I've only seen them being "shut down" or practically ignored over saying that Bandana Dee would be a weak pick for Smash.

For example, take a look at this: https://twitter.com/Riddlesmk/status/1227339880163835905?s=20

Tweeted just yesterday, showing distaste towards Bandana Dee. Yet, despite the number of likes and retweets that the tweet got, majority the replies themselves tell a different story about people's reaction to the tweet.

Even then, there have been plenty of support tweets in Bandana Dee's favor when Kirby is brought up in Smash Speculation as well so I do believe that things have changed in a sense.

It's kind of a shame that people's false words got in the way of the actual truth regarding Bandana Dee, but it's not like we're the only supporters left.
 
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I couldn't disagree much more with that statement. 90% of the things I hear about him that don't come from anyone in this thread ever since he got deconfirmed are "He's a Hat Goomba" or "LOL PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT A WADDLE DEE WHAT A BAD PICK" or "Boring/Uninspired", with the Deetractors gaining competitive players like JoSniffy and more and more big youtubers like Nathaniel Bandy and Jwittz as if it's the hip trend to make people think you're cool. Even ignoring them, all I hear is "Hat Goomba Hat Goomba Hat Goomba", and... they've convinced me. Seeing how many more people hate him and there are so many more people happy to see him not on the roster than there would be to see him on the roster is demoralizing on one point. The fact that everyone continues to say this after Piranha Plant, along with Sakurai's Modern Kirby neglection makes it worse. The last leg Bandana Dee had to stand on was that there were zero spear users, and then Byleth took that slot.

It all has me convinced that Bandana Dee is no longer the main character that he used to be up until the release of Star Allies, but a Goomba with a Hat like everyone else has been saying. :(

Edit: Like you guys aren't even realizing how bad it is. There are so many people who would rather have an actual Goomba with a Hat. an actual Bowser foot soldier who exists to get stomped by Mario, but wearing headgear. It's that bad.
Holdup, Deetractors have spouted the same lousy argument just more often and louder to the point where you're actually agreeing with them yet are still sad about the fact? How does that make sense?

Honestly, you're blowing this whole deal way out of proportion. Deetractors are arguably a bubble, for every one of them there are probably four people who'd feel neutral at worst about him and all of this recent hate isn't going to have any effect on his DLC chances, especially since most of it doesn't from Japan. As most of us are aware Waddle Dees and Bandana are hugely beloved there.
Sakurai's neglection could be problematic yes but Nintendo is pulling the strings here remember? I really don't think he's biased enough he'd go out of his way to reject Dee in particular, considering he is one of his creations after all. He doesn't hold an active vendetta against anything modern Kirby, c'mon now.

No offense but I'll go ahead and ignore you now since this unwarranted doom and gloom is straight up not fun to go through constantly.
 

11th

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Source Gaming is doing another poll, if you guys want to get your thoughts in. (Wow, I actually didn't miss a poll for once.) It will be open through March 7th.


Also, Dee is going to be re-rated in the "Rate Their Chances" thread soon™. He will be on day 397. They're currently on 391.
 

Dukemon102

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Source Gaming is doing another poll, if you guys want to get your thoughts in. (Wow, I actually didn't miss a poll for once.) It will be open through March 7th.


Also, Dee is going to be re-rated in the "Rate Their Chances" thread soon™. He will be on day 397. They're currently on 391.
Voted a while ago and I included Pure Bandana Boy in my requests. Also, some Adeleine and Magolor Mii Costumes cuz why not?

Is true that this is the last fighter pass?
Sakurai said "No Plans for more DLC" and after the second pass "Smash Ultimate will be complete". So yes, that's probably it. Personally, 11 DLC fighters and stages is more than enough for me and my wallet, I don't want Smash to cross the line where the DLC costs more than the actual game.

Edit:
Happy 40th Anniversary HAL Laboratory
hal-40th-2_feature.jpg

Thank you for creating some of my favorite Kirby games, the Pokémon Stadium series and of course, the first two Super Smash Bros. games. Hopefully the latter series will some day acknowledge your modern work... hopefully.
 
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Voted a while ago and I included Pure Bandana Boy in my requests. Also, some Adeleine and Magolor Mii Costumes cuz why not?


Sakurai said "No Plans for more DLC" and after the second pass "Smash Ultimate will be complete". So yes, that's probably it. Personally, 11 DLC fighters and stages is more than enough for me and my wallet, I don't want Smash to cross the line where the DLC costs more than the actual game.

Edit:
Happy 40th Anniversary HAL Laboratory
View attachment 263374
Thank you for creating some of my favorite Kirby games, the Pokémon Stadium series and of course, the first two Super Smash Bros. games. Hopefully the latter series will some day acknowledge your modern work... hopefully.
Dang it. I only recognize Kirby and BoxBoy. Curse my lack of knowledge...
 

Mamboo07

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Voted a while ago and I included Pure Bandana Boy in my requests. Also, some Adeleine and Magolor Mii Costumes cuz why not?


Sakurai said "No Plans for more DLC" and after the second pass "Smash Ultimate will be complete". So yes, that's probably it. Personally, 11 DLC fighters and stages is more than enough for me and my wallet, I don't want Smash to cross the line where the DLC costs more than the actual game.

Edit:
Happy 40th Anniversary HAL Laboratory
View attachment 263374
Thank you for creating some of my favorite Kirby games, the Pokémon Stadium series and of course, the first two Super Smash Bros. games. Hopefully the latter series will some day acknowledge your modern work... hopefully.
Same as me, I voted Bandana Dee too.
 

Goombaic

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More proof that Sakurai doesn't refuse to acknowledge Kirby games he didn't make:
https://www-aaaba-lp1-hac.cdn.nintendo.net/en-US/a6b5adb9/index.html
A pic that references Gooey is one of the winners, and Sakurai comments on similarities between him and DQ's Slimes.
Who actually thinks Sakurai doesn't acknowledge the games he didn't make when there are music tracks, spirits, and Final Smashes that prove otherwise. I think what people say more is that Sakurai appears to have a bias for his games.
 

Dukemon102

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More proof that Sakurai doesn't refuse to acknowledge Kirby games he didn't make:
https://www-aaaba-lp1-hac.cdn.nintendo.net/en-US/a6b5adb9/index.html
A pic that references Gooey is one of the winners, and Sakurai comments on similarities between him and DQ's Slimes.
Actions speak way louder than words. PNGs and Final Smashes are not enough to fill the empty void the Kirby series has in Smash. A Fighter Pack with one of the highest requested characters and an actual modern stage would solve this. Because Kirby hasn't had any new content since Brawl except retro call outs and retro stages (When newer games clearly exist). And music remixes from the Kumazaki era please.

Dang it. I only recognize Kirby and BoxBoy. Curse my lack of knowledge...
There is also Boxgirl, the Picross 3D animals, Part Time UFO, Pinball Revenge from the Gator's..... gator, Earthbound stuff if you look closely. And more that I'm still trying to recognize.

Same as me, I voted Bandana Dee too.
I know, I saw your list in that other thread Diddy is still looking for your soul.
 
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fogbadge

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Her name is Qucy (I suppose that was a typo). But I thought the more advertised name would be more recognizable, since she appears in BOXBOY! + BOXGIRL!
well she appears in all four boxboy games and the user you were responding to may have been meaning boxboy as a series rather than the character i mean if someone reconizes qbby as from boxboy then they could probably guess thats where qucy and qddy are from and assuming other people might have thought that too i thought you might have meant something else
 
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SGoW

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Who actually thinks Sakurai doesn't acknowledge the games he didn't make when there are music tracks, spirits, and Final Smashes that prove otherwise. I think what people say more is that Sakurai appears to have a bias for his games.
Can you name anything else those games get? Items? Assist Trophies? Stages? Because I can't.

Only five Kirby games outside off the ones made by Sakurai have original content in Smash (so spirits and any song that is not an arrangement does not count). Those games being:

Kirby 64: One song
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror: One song
Kirby Squeak Squad: One Song
Kirby Super Star Ultra: A Final Smash
Kirby's Return to Dreamland: A Final Smash

Besides that, every other game only gets a reference in the form of a spirit, or a music track ripped directly from its source game.

Have a spreadsheet for reference to the amount of Kirby material that originates from Kirby games by Sakurai, and Kirby games not made by Sakurai.

Screenshot (327).png


Notes: I consider Green Greens and Dream Land to be based off Kirby's Dream Land, as the only they're both based off Greens Greens, which only ever reappears in Kirby games as reference to KDL, or as an arrangement of the song. The arrangements add up to 19. It says 20, as I didn't include Boss Theme Medley in the arrangement list for any of the games.
 
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Can you name anything else those games get? Items? Assist Trophies? Stages? Because I can't.

Only five Kirby games outside off the ones made by Sakurai have original content in Smash (so spirits and any song that is not an arrangement does not count). Those games being:

Kirby 64: One song
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror: One song
Kirby Squeak Squad: One Song
Kirby Super Star Ultra: A Final Smash
Kirby's Return to Dreamland: A Final Smash

Besides that, every other game only gets a reference in the form of a spirit, or a music track ripped directly from its source game.

Have a spreadsheet for reference to the amount of Kirby material that originates from Kirby games by Sakurai, and Kirby games not made by Sakurai.

View attachment 263443

Notes: I consider Green Greens and Dream Land to be based off Kirby's Dream Land, as the only they're both based off Greens Greens, which only ever reappears in Kirby games as reference to KDL, or as an arrangement of the song. The arrangements add up to 19. It says 20, as I didn't include Boss Theme Medley in the arrangement list for any of the games.
The fact that out of 5 non-Sakurai games, one of those is Super Star Ultra - a remake of a Sakurai title - is extra sad.
 

Rangez

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Goombaic

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Can you name anything else those games get? Items? Assist Trophies? Stages? Because I can't.

Only five Kirby games outside off the ones made by Sakurai have original content in Smash (so spirits and any song that is not an arrangement does not count). Those games being:

Kirby 64: One song
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror: One song
Kirby Squeak Squad: One Song
Kirby Super Star Ultra: A Final Smash
Kirby's Return to Dreamland: A Final Smash

Besides that, every other game only gets a reference in the form of a spirit, or a music track ripped directly from its source game.

Have a spreadsheet for reference to the amount of Kirby material that originates from Kirby games by Sakurai, and Kirby games not made by Sakurai.

View attachment 263443

Notes: I consider Green Greens and Dream Land to be based off Kirby's Dream Land, as the only they're both based off Greens Greens, which only ever reappears in Kirby games as reference to KDL, or as an arrangement of the song. The arrangements add up to 19. It says 20, as I didn't include Boss Theme Medley in the arrangement list for any of the games.
I didn't mean to say that the non-Sakurai Kirby content was fine as is, because that'd be lying. I was just saying that Sakurai is aware that the games do exist and we didn't need that picture to find that out.
 

fogbadge

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I didn't mean to say that the non-Sakurai Kirby content was fine as is, because that'd be lying. I was just saying that Sakurai is aware that the games do exist and we didn't need that picture to find that out.
i dont think we ever thought he was unaware of their existence just that he chooses not to focus on them
 

JCKirbs

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Agree, the Kirby representation is just terrible.
I honestly think it had to do with the development of base-game Ultimate itself, given that only their top franchises (Mario & Zelda) got significant content like new Stages, while the other franchises kinda got pushed to the sidelines with only varied music, assist trophies, items, and PNG images.

Then Byleth came along, of course (even after the inclusion of Chrom)... granting the FE franchise its 8th character for reasons that still baffle me to this day.

But, I'm obviously not going to blame Sakurai on that front (because that particular decision reeked of yet another facet of Nintendo's questionable decision-making skills).
Even then, I've already mentioned before that Byleth's inclusion in Smash doesn't really make my blood boil like the rest of the community, but...

The mere idea of a Fire Emblem character being the only new 1st Party DLC character to join Smash (again) definitely rubs me the wrong way, especially when a popular, thriving franchise (that doesn't rely on stuff like a mobile game to apparently gauge how much content it deserves in a game like Smash) is just sitting there in plain sight with a plethora of potential fighters, including a certain strong and brave warrior destined for greatness on the battlefield.

But overall,
Whatever happens with Fighter Pass Vol. 2, happens.

It is what it is, and it's not going to change.
 

fogbadge

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I honestly think it had to do with the development of base-game Ultimate itself, given that only their top franchises (Mario & Zelda) got significant content like new Stages, while the other franchises kinda got pushed to the sidelines with only varied music, assist trophies, items, and PNG images.

Then Byleth came along, of course (even after the inclusion of Chrom)... granting the FE franchise its 8th character for reasons that still baffle me to this day.

But, I'm obviously not going to blame Sakurai on that front (because that particular decision reeked of yet another facet of Nintendo's questionable decision-making skills).
Even then, I've already mentioned before that Byleth's inclusion in Smash doesn't really make my blood boil like the rest of the community, but...

The mere idea of a Fire Emblem character being the only new 1st Party DLC character to join Smash (again) definitely rubs me the wrong way, especially when a popular, thriving franchise (that doesn't rely on stuff like a mobile game to apparently gauge how much content it deserves in a game like Smash) is just sitting there in plain sight with a plethora of potential fighters, including a certain strong and brave warrior destined for greatness on the battlefield.

But overall,
Whatever happens with Fighter Pass Vol. 2, happens.

It is what it is, and it's not going to change.
all that and you think nintendo was the one who chose byleth?
 

JCKirbs

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all that and you think nintendo was the one who chose byleth?
Well, sure.

After all, Sakurai had to go out of his way to get an early release copy of Three Houses, and he couldn't even 100% grasp the entirety of the game before Byleth had to be established as a Smash character. Also, I doubt that giving the Fire Emblem franchise its 8th character was the most exciting part of Ultimate Fighter's Pass to Sakurai, especially considering that he wanted to bring many more new and fresh gaming worlds to Smash, and Three Houses merely brings in another section of a franchise that people are starting to become sick of, (especially when there are even better Fire Emblem characters to choose from).

Also, yet again Sakurai acknowledged the amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash, and even the amount of sword fighters in Smash, but not in a good light.

So, to me at least, it seemed that Nintendo was pushing a certain agenda for Fighter Pack #5 that Sakurai didn't 100% agree with.
 
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fogbadge

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Well, sure.

After all, Sakurai had to go out of his way to get an early release copy of Three Houses, and he couldn't even 100% grasp the entirety of the game before Byleth had to be established as a Smash character. Also, I doubt that giving the Fire Emblem franchise its 8th character was the most exciting part of Ultimate Fighter's Pass to Sakurai, especially considering that he wanted to bring many more new and fresh gaming worlds to Smash, and Three Houses merely brings in another section of a franchise that people are starting to become sick of, (especially when there are even better Fire Emblem characters to choose from).

Also, yet again Sakurai acknowledged the amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash, and even the amount of sword fighters in Smash, but not in a good light.

So, to me at least, it seemed that Nintendo was pushing a certain agenda for Fighter Pack #5 that Sakurai didn't 100% agree with.
but it doesnt make any sense though, why would nintendo push only fire emblem? why not more of their big franchises? and we've only got sakurai's word that it was nintendo who made him do it, even then he still had to be a certain degree of willing to do it. the video of byleth sakurai seemed to talk about the series with passion more so than he did with others so he clearly is a fan. the whole thing sounded like he was trying to deflect blame he said it wasnt his idea to add corrin as well. sakurai does seem to have a gauge on what the fandom wants (ridley/k.rool) but that doesnt mean he always gonna do it (isaac)

point is byleth being nintnedo's idea doesnt make sense, why would they only "push" one of their big releases?
 
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but it doesnt make any sense though, why would nintendo push only fire emblem? why not more of their big franchises? and we've only got sakurai's word that it was nintendo who made him do it, even then he still had to be a certain degree of willing to do it. the video of byleth sakurai seemed to talk about the series with passion more so than he did with others so he clearly is a fan. the whole thing sounded like he was trying to deflect blame he said it wasnt his idea to add corrin as well. sakurai does seem to have a gauge on what the fandom wants (ridley/k.rool) but that doesnt mean he always gonna do it (isaac)

point is byleth being nintnedo's idea doesnt make sense, why would they only "push" one of their big releases?
Yeah I don’t 100% buy the whole “I have no control besides me saying that I don’t think I can implement this” thing. Not to go back to accusing Sakurai (which I admit to having done), but with Sakurai being confirmed to be a big fan of 3 of the 5 fighter pass series (Persona (5), Fatal Fury/KoF/SNK and Fire Emblem), I feel that Sakurai has some influence in the fighter pass. 60% of the fighters just happening to have Sakurai as a huge fan of them just doesn’t scream “I had no choice” to me. Not saying he’s 100% or 0% in charge (like again, I admit to doing previously), but I really think there’s more to his part in the selection process than what he’s telling us.

However, I could also argue for why Nintendo would pick Byleth. Fire Emblem is not that big a series compared to Mario, Pokémon, Zelda or Kirby. Those four don’t “need” the constant promotion to do well. Fire Emblem does, at least in Nintendo’s eyes. I see someone like Cinderace, Urshifu or a Gen 9 rep (if we get to that) standing a good chance, so I could be wrong, but I really think that Nintendo picked Byleth because they don’t need Smash to promote the larger franchises. The only way I could see another first party rep get in is if it’s the same thing (Sylux or something) or if they try the reverse (again, Cinderace/Urshifu/Gen 9).
 

Rangez

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OK, I definitely feel that this should be posted here just as an important reminder of the DLC process:

 
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OK, I definitely feel that this should be posted here just as an important reminder of the DLC process:

True. Nintendo knows their own catalogue more than we do (if you can believe it), and Sakurai has proven to be a man with many ideas in his head. A combination so beautiful, yet so deadly.
 

Opossum

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Then Byleth came along, of course (even after the inclusion of Chrom)... granting the FE franchise its 8th character for reasons that still baffle me to this day.
.
I mean it's really not hard to grasp.

Melee:
Marth did incredibly well on the Melee poll and was the first lord.
Roy was a last minute clone to beef up the roster.

Brawl:
Marth returns.
Roy is cut due to time constraints.
Ike is added due to being the latest lord and adding a new gameplay niche as a heavy swordsman.

Smash 4:
Marth and Ike return with updated appearances to match New Mystery of the Emblem and Radiant Dawn, respectively.
Robin was added because Awakening was new and unprecedentedly successful, and because he offered a brand new fighting style with his tomes.
Lucina was previously an alternate costume for Marth that got the character treatment due to extra time.
Roy came back as DLC due to fan demand.
Corrin was added because they wanted to promote a recent Nintendo game.

Ultimate:
Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina, and Corrin return because Everyone is Here.
Chrom is added due to being an incredibly popular Ballot request after he was left out of 4.
Byleth was added because Sakurai wanted someone from a recent game people would still be playing when the character released, and Three Houses fit the bill...which proved to be a good call considering it became the highest selling single game in the series.

All of them had their reasons.
 

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I mean it's really not hard to grasp.

Melee:
Marth did incredibly well on the Melee poll and was the first lord.
Roy was a last minute clone to beef up the roster.

Brawl:
Marth returns.
Roy is cut due to time constraints.
Ike is added due to being the latest lord and adding a new gameplay niche as a heavy swordsman.

Smash 4:
Marth and Ike return with updated appearances to match New Mystery of the Emblem and Radiant Dawn, respectively.
Robin was added because Awakening was new and unprecedentedly successful, and because he offered a brand new fighting style with his tomes.
Lucina was previously an alternate costume for Marth that got the character treatment due to extra time.
Roy came back as DLC due to fan demand.
Corrin was added because they wanted to promote a recent Nintendo game.

Ultimate:
Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina, and Corrin return because Everyone is Here.
Chrom is added due to being an incredibly popular Ballot request after he was left out of 4.
Byleth was added because Sakurai wanted someone from a recent game people would still be playing when the character released, and Three Houses fit the bill...which proved to be a good call considering it became the highest selling single game in the series.

All of them had their reasons.
I probably should've added: "While continuing to ignore clearly relevant franchise(s) that might as well get at least ONE character after a decade has passed."
(Not to mention that the perfect time to include someone like B. Dee would've even been in the base roster, among other well-known Nintendo characters.)

Generally speaking though, I do understand that every FE character that's currently in Smash has rightfully earned their place.
It just irks me to think that the Kirby franchise might be snubbed out of getting a character yet again, while franchises like FE keep getting full-course meals for practically every Smash game, and on top of that, we're supposed to be grateful and thankful that it's happening or else we're "rude" and "entitled".

Heck, if I posted this on a platform like Twitter, I absolutely know that I'd be bombarded with "H O E S M A D" replies.

So yeah, as much as I'm trying to keep things level-headed and respectful, nothing's really making it any easier for me.
 

Opossum

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I probably should've added: "While continuing to ignore clearly relevant franchise(s) that might as well get at least ONE character after a decade has passed."
(Not to mention that the perfect time to include someone like B. Dee would've even been in the base roster, among other well-known Nintendo characters.)

Generally speaking though, I do understand that every FE character that's currently in Smash has rightfully earned their place.
It just irks me to think that the Kirby franchise might be snubbed out of getting a character yet again, while franchises like FE keep getting full-course meals for practically every Smash game, and on top of that, we're supposed to be grateful and thankful that it's happening or else we're "rude" and "entitled".

Heck, if I posted this on a platform like Twitter, I absolutely know that I'd be bombarded with "H O E S M A D" replies.

So yeah, as much as I'm trying to keep things level-headed and respectful, nothing's really making it any easier for me.
Like I totally get the frustration. Even if personally I'd prefer Magolor over Dee (just for preference's sake), I do think Kirby should get a fourth character.

But as well, it's also a more healthy mindset to focus on what you'd like to get instead of what others are getting, instead of alongside it. In other words, the difference between saying "I want this" vs "why can't I have X if they got Y" and whatnot. Just my view of it. For example I was pretty sad we got no new Punch-Out!! content whatsoever, even music, but I didn't try to shift the focus on the series that did.

Sometimes the dice just fall your way, and other times they don't. It's just an unfortunate reality. There are lots of things I'd have preferred seeing in Smash over what we ended up getting in quite a few areas, no matter how much I love the finished product, so I understand the frustration. I just think a conversation focused on being goal-oriented as opposed to focusing on what's already in is better in the long run.
 

JCKirbs

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Like I totally get the frustration. Even if personally I'd prefer Magolor over Dee (just for preference's sake), I do think Kirby should get a fourth character.

But as well, it's also a more healthy mindset to focus on what you'd like to get instead of what others are getting, instead of alongside it. In other words, the difference between saying "I want this" vs "why can't I have X if they got Y" and whatnot. Just my view of it. For example I was pretty sad we got no new Punch-Out!! content whatsoever, even music, but I didn't try to shift the focus on the series that did.

Sometimes the dice just fall your way, and other times they don't. It's just an unfortunate reality. There are lots of things I'd have preferred seeing in Smash over what we ended up getting in quite a few areas, no matter how much I love the finished product, so I understand the frustration. I just think a conversation focused on being goal-oriented as opposed to focusing on what's already in is better in the long run.
Fair enough, i’ll take other franchises out of the equation.
Kirby’s horrendous representation in Smash is enough to cover a whole topic by itself, anyway.

Aside from that, I guess i’m just tired of the “dice not falling my way”.
I haven’t been genuinely excited for a character reveal since Bowser Jr. was leaked for Sm4sh.

Now, even more of people’s wildest dreams are coming true left and right, yet a character who would fit right in Smash, a character from a series that Sakurai once piloted himself, a character that would take the least amount of blood, sweat, and tears is currently reduced to a mere PNG image...

The absolute state of being a Bandee fan is quite something at this point, “Hat Goomba” “arguments” aside.

But, I guess it’s all part of that weird thing that’s “life”.
 
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fogbadge

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Yeah I don’t 100% buy the whole “I have no control besides me saying that I don’t think I can implement this” thing. Not to go back to accusing Sakurai (which I admit to having done), but with Sakurai being confirmed to be a big fan of 3 of the 5 fighter pass series (Persona (5), Fatal Fury/KoF/SNK and Fire Emblem), I feel that Sakurai has some influence in the fighter pass. 60% of the fighters just happening to have Sakurai as a huge fan of them just doesn’t scream “I had no choice” to me. Not saying he’s 100% or 0% in charge (like again, I admit to doing previously), but I really think there’s more to his part in the selection process than what he’s telling us.

However, I could also argue for why Nintendo would pick Byleth. Fire Emblem is not that big a series compared to Mario, Pokémon, Zelda or Kirby. Those four don’t “need” the constant promotion to do well. Fire Emblem does, at least in Nintendo’s eyes. I see someone like Cinderace, Urshifu or a Gen 9 rep (if we get to that) standing a good chance, so I could be wrong, but I really think that Nintendo picked Byleth because they don’t need Smash to promote the larger franchises. The only way I could see another first party rep get in is if it’s the same thing (Sylux or something) or if they try the reverse (again, Cinderace/Urshifu/Gen 9).
i believe after the success of awakening nintendo said they were gonna treat FE as a big franchise. ive seen people say that FE needs the representation but i also see people saying it doesnt need the representation while trying to justify which one got in mos recently at that time. even then youd have to wonder why out of their series that needed promoting would they only do it for FE and not some of their other series that could use the help.

OK, I definitely feel that this should be posted here just as an important reminder of the DLC process:

now that makes more sense they reach the idea together. thats sort of what ive be trying to say, it cant be just nintendo's decision the "blame" cant just be for one party.
 
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