Bandana Dee, the Legend of Dee - Our Star Ally as DeeLC?! (v(- ' ' -)>↑

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You know how a lot of BWD fans have been using Japan for a crutch to say that we have a lot of supporters over there?
Turns out he did worse in the Japanese fan ballot than the Western.

If I didn't already think he was impossible due to Sakurai bias and spirits deconfirming, I'd say he's impossible.

"But he still did good". Look at what "good" got us and everyone else: PNG Files, Mii Outfits and Assist Trophies. Only the 2 tip-top winners got in, with 1 wildcard exception. Top 5 doesn't cut it. You gotta win, and even then, good luck! Look at how long K. Rool took to get in, despite being #1 for years, and add a vendetta from the only person who has a say in adding characters, and you got a 0% chance of winning! The only way he would actually stand a chance, is, again, if there was a new director that 1: Doesn't hold the same (or worse) vendettas against Modern Kirby that Sakurai does and 2: hasn't specifically been told by Sakurai to not include Non-Sakurai Kirby content.
Pretty sure the western poll was for character wants. Those are the characters people desire to be in.

The Japanese poll specifically states it's who the voters think are already chosen as DLC fighters. They're not necessarily character wants.
 
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Pretty sure the western poll was for character wants. Those are the characters people desire to be in.

The Japanese poll specifically states it's who the voters think are already chosen as DLC fighters. They're not necessarily character wants.
That's a relief then. I was baffled at the thought there'd actually be people who legitimately wanted another mary sue FE protag that wields a sword.
Also gen 8 mon to a lesser extend.
 

Royalty1702

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You know how a lot of BWD fans have been using Japan for a crutch to say that we have a lot of supporters over there?
Turns out he did worse in the Japanese fan ballot than the Western.

If I didn't already think he was impossible due to Sakurai bias and spirits deconfirming, I'd say he's impossible.

"But he still did good". Look at what "good" got us and everyone else: PNG Files, Mii Outfits and Assist Trophies. Only the 2 tip-top winners got in, with 1 wildcard exception. Top 5 doesn't cut it. You gotta win, and even then, good luck! Look at how long K. Rool took to get in, despite being #1 for years, and add a vendetta from the only person who has a say in adding characters, and you got a 0% chance of winning! The only way he would actually stand a chance, is, again, if there was a new director that 1: Doesn't hold the same (or worse) vendettas against Modern Kirby that Sakurai does and 2: hasn't specifically been told by Sakurai to not include Non-Sakurai Kirby content.
Holy ****, the Japanese poll is based on expectations not wants. Can't people read?
 
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ZTurtle

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It's interesting though, do Japanese fans really expect Sora that much? I can understand him being most wanted, or at least being top ten, but him being #1 is rather unexpected. I guess since we got Joker and P5R being PS4 exclusive, it isn't too much of a strech....

Still it's nice to see Dee in the top ten, shows that some Japanese fans still have some hope.
 

chocolatejr9

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Still it's nice to see Dee in the top ten, shows that some Japanese fans still have some hope.
Honestly, based on my experiences, that basically sums up a lot of characters, especially Bandana Dee. Whenever something Smash related comes around, we all do whatever we can to support whoever we want (Twitter, Discord, polls, even downplaying other characters) because we hope so much for the one we want. In Dee's case, we all hope that one day, Sakurai will finally give some proper Modern Kirby representation, not only meaning his inclusion, but maybe a stage, or even some remixes. To that end, we do what we can to spread the word, taking down haters, and just proving their is a chance for the little guy.

Maybe I'm just looking at this the wrong way, but that's how I percieve it.
 
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If your intention wasn't to compare al of the characters you listed, than your post was poorly worded. The way I read it was you were implying that it was unnecessary to add more Kirby or DK fighters beyond Dixie and BWD, but then immediately jumped to talking about "missing" fighters as if they already had a spot pending in Smash.

And even then, if we can get three joe schmo fighters from Fire Emblem who had less than ten brain cells put into their development, we can certainly go beyond four Kirby and DK fighters each.
Yes, Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee is all we need from DK and Kirby honestly. All a series really needs for complete representation in Smash is the protagonist, the core co-protagonists, and the main antagonist.

Fire Emblem having more fighters than some bigger franchises like DK and Kirby shouldn't be a excuse that we should have more fighters outside the main cast for a franchise.

I disagree. Bandana Dee and Dixie I feel would perfect their respective franchise from a strictly character perspective. Sure you could add more, but it's already perfect.

Take Metroid. I saw it as perfect when Ridley was added, and then they added Dark Samus on top of it. Dark Samus was nice but I never saw her as necessary, she was only really in two games that are pretty old now (but I still love her)
There's a difference between complete and perfect. Complete is what you described where we have the core main cast like :ultsamus:, :ultzss:, :ultridley:, and :ultdarksamus: for Metroid or :ultmario:, :ultluigi:, :ultpeach:, and :ultbowser:for Mario. Perfect is where you have pretty much every character from a franchise in the roster. Whether you agree with me or not, :ultpiranha: is here and my statement has some ground because of him.
 

Guynamednelson

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While I've used MvC2's 18 X-Men reps to justify wanting more Pokemon, I think one inclusion can also justify a more popular series having less reps: Jill Valentine. All the stuff she did in that game was good enough for representing Resident Evil as a whole without it having as many reps as Darkstalkers.
 

Megadoomer

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While I've used MvC2's 18 X-Men reps to justify wanting more Pokemon, I think one inclusion can also justify a more popular series having less reps: Jill Valentine. All the stuff she did in that game was good enough for representing Resident Evil as a whole without it having as many reps as Darkstalkers.
I'm not sure if MvC2 is the best example - roster-wise, it was a lot like BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle, where they copied and pasted pre-existing sprites to make up the roster. At the time, Capcom had an X-Men fighting game (Children of the Atom - twelve of those eighteen characters came from there) and X-Men vs. Street Fighter before the rest of the Marvel universe was brought in, so there was a lot more X-Men content to draw from.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I still don't know why people are thinking spirit characters aren't deconfirmed. Is it because they don't want to believe it? As a big Bandana Dee fan, it sucks having the knowledge he's out because he has a gameplay function in Smash already.

Spirits are out, as much as it sucks.
  • They're the replacement for trophies, which didn't stop Mewtwo and Lucas from being DLC
  • Characters can equip spirits of themselves already, including Joker
 

osby

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I still don't know why people are thinking spirit characters aren't deconfirmed. Is it because they don't want to believe it? As a big Bandana Dee fan, it sucks having the knowledge he's out because he has a gameplay function in Smash already.

Spirits are out, as much as it sucks.
Chrom already had a game play function in Smash, but he still got in.

There's nothing stopping the developers from adding Bandana Dee and making his Ultimate render his fighter Spirit.
 
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I still don't know why people are thinking spirit characters aren't deconfirmed. Is it because they don't want to believe it? As a big Bandana Dee fan, it sucks having the knowledge he's out because he has a gameplay function in Smash already.

Spirits are out, as much as it sucks.
This. I could write an essay on why spirits do deconfirm no matter how much you want to believe they don't. Every argument for why they don't has a good counterargument, like...

  • They're the replacement for trophies, which didn't stop Mewtwo and Lucas from being DLC
  • Characters can equip spirits of themselves already, including Joker
Trophies didn't have a role in battle. Spirits do, since you equip them (and they represent the souls of those who were killed by Galeem and never got a chance to come back). Also, Mewtwo and Lucas were veterans, which seems to be the exception to the deconfirmation rule, since Samus, DK and Toon Link still made it in to Ultimate, Brawl and Smash 4, despite having a non-fighter role. No newcomer ever did that besides Chrom (who was last minute and I explain why we know that after the next quote).

And all of those characters that can be equipped by themselves are either alternate versions or actually something else. Tree isn't Wii Fit Trainer. It's a manifestation of the pose. Plessie isn't Mario, but only shows him because there were no preexisting renders of Plessie. Kaptain K. Rool and Yarn Yoshi are treated separately. It's like how Dr. Mario and Young Link are treated separately from Mario and Link. Only difference is Dr. Mario and Young Link got in while Kaptain K. Rool and Yarn Yoshi got deconfirmed.

Chrom already had a game play function in Smash, but he still got in.

There's nothing stopping the developers from adding Bandana Dee and making his Ultimate render his fighter Spirit.
Chrom is a last-minute addition, as shown by how he only got the Awakening Victory theme in the 3.0 Update. Before then, he has the standard FE Victory Theme. If they didn't even get to change the victory theme in time for launch, they wouldn't have time to Change Robin's Final Smash to something that didn't have Chrom.
 

Chinderblock

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Those roles in battle are super specific, and aren't a key part of every mode either.

Never mind Mario can be equipped by a version of himself, which inherently shows how much it doesn't matter. We have absolutely zero evidence to suggest Spirits in any way disconfirm. Just flawed theories. There's at least some reason to believe AT's(who actually have a major role in battle, and we know Final Smashes don't matter as proven hard by Chrom as is) are very unlikely to get upgraded in the same game. Those are very major battle roles. You know what aren't? Spirits. They have no real effect on Classic. You can have the same Spirit of a character who is already playable. They are not in the same league as AT's, and are more like Final Smashes at this point instead, which as we know, do not disconfirm.

The counterarguments are rather weak when they're still glorified Trophies that are slightly more useful than in previous games. They just combined 'em with Custom Equipment, but don't play any bigger role than Trophies either. You could literally just make them "equippable effect" without being tied to the character and they'd be exactly the same thing, just without pretty pictures. Really, the saddest parts about Spirits is they have no character descriptions, already making them a major step down from Trophies.

Also, being alternate versions of themselves doesn't make them any less the character. It just furthers proves they can easily have a different version as playable. That's a huge point in the favor of Spirits being upgraded, not the other way around. If we had no other Mario spirits, there would be a point to consider. But we do. Besides the fact that Metal Mario was once a full-fledged boss character in the first game too. Sakurai doesn't give a rat's *** about this dumb idea that alternate versions of characters aren't allowed to be playable. Now, you might have a point by noting that evolved spirits might be treated as a somewhat bigger role(because they have something very special for how they're summoned/used. That means they were intentionally chosen as a bigger role, not a fun quick thing to add), but the bunch of random spirits? Not even close. The only thing that really hurts characters like Shadow and Waluigi is their major gameplay role called Assist Trophies. Spirits are not even close to that level. Not even evolved Spirits are as close, though they're at least remotely notable.

Likewise, there's well over 1000 spirits. Why would Sakurai say no to a playable character because they have a literal png. That's pretty illogical. If a character won't be playable, it'll be for actual good reasons, like he doesn't think they'll sell well enough, it wasn't on a list Nintendo made, he has no interest in the character(admittedly this isn't that logical, but it does sound more realistic), some kind of character bias(again, it's realistic. He's just a human being), being unable to make the gameplay work right for a character(this kept Dixie out of Brawl, and may be why she has yet to be playable, if he wants to keep the tag-team dynamic), or if it's a 3rd party, they wouldn't agree to the idea. Maybe one or two of these are arbitrary. But you know what is entirely arbitrary? They have a simple png. That's a poor reasoning and isn't even worth his time to worry about. It takes almost nothing to rename the character in how it shows up, to say a slightly different name. And he only has to do this for one image. It takes more to make a character playable than it does to fix a spirit. That's the huge difference here in changes.
 

11th

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To be honest, whether or not a character is a spirit doesn't really seem to matter at this point. The DLC is locked in. An image definitely wouldn't stop them from adding a fighter if they really want to, but Joker heavily points toward the pass being mostly (4/5) or entirely (5/5) third party, so Dee's odds (as well as the odds of most other first/second party characters) don't look too hot anyway.

There isn't much left for Ultimate speculation unless the next character announcement drops a big game changer, or they announce that there will be a character (or characters) outside of the pass. All we can do is wait and see what happens, and keep supporting our characters. Not really worth getting too worked up over something that may not even come into play (i.e. whether spirits disconfirm or not).
 
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Believe I brought this up before...but considering how smash 4 handled Lucas and Mewtwo when they were added as DLC (entire new trophy for fighter, kept old one), it's safe to say that BWD would like get his star allies render for his fighter spirit, along with his smash render.
 

Chinderblock

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Believe I brought this up before...but considering how smash 4 handled Lucas and Mewtwo when they were added as DLC (entire new trophy for fighter, kept old one), it's safe to say that BWD would like get his star allies render for his fighter spirit, along with his smash render.
I wouldn't say that render is safe to say he'd used, but it's easily a possibility.
 
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I wouldn't say that render is safe to say he'd used, but it's easily a possibility.
Ah. I always forget how scarce smash is with post-Air Ride Kirby content. Didn't we only get Susie, Magalor and The Mage Sisters as spirits? Maybe a few more than that, but I'm very surprised that a Morpho Knight spirit or Hyness spirit didn't happen. Are there even that many renders of BWD from Return to Dreamland that can be used?
 

Chinderblock

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Ah. I always forget how scarce smash is with post-Air Ride Kirby content. Didn't we only get Susie, Magalor and The Mage Sisters as spirits? Maybe a few more than that, but I'm very surprised that a Morpho Knight spirit or Hyness spirit didn't happen. Are there even that many renders of BWD from Return to Dreamland that can be used?
I don't know, I was just pointing out that there's no guarantee of which render to use.

Anyway, it'll be interesting what could happen. Another thing to note is that there's a lot of unused Spirits from the Kirby series, so it'd be easy to make an all-new Spirit board for BWD.
 
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