Social Bair is underpowered - Puff Social/Disc Thread

[Da Shuffla]

I like the bow.

Also, Lion, rock the crown even before you beat your opponent. You've already won.

 

[MaPow]

Soooo
crown = cocky puff
headband = determined puff
bow = happy-go-lucky puff
rose = professional puff
naked = standard puff

Am I accurate at all?

 

[Da Shuffla]

What's the difference between standard and professional Puff?

 

[MaPow]

true.... how about rose = that elegant puff

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Rose = passionate Puff

 

[Da Shuffla]

Fancy Puff

 

[TheSleepyLion]

It's a rose? I always thought it was a parasol, so I thought of it was the all around the world puff

 

[Da Shuffla]

Not a rose. Feel like it's a flower, though.

We seem to have come to a consensus. Red Puff is the passionate, artistic, and cultured Puff.

Instagram Puff.

 

[MaPow]

hibiscus puff straight flexin'

 

[Da Shuffla]

Whoa, that's the exact flower. Kinda want to play Red Puff now that I know the name. How'd you find that out?

 

[MaPow]

i googled 'every type of flower' and it was the first image lol.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Ahh, nice. That's definitely the Puff that posts pictures of inspirational quotes over train tracks.

In your opinion, what's Puff's most underrated move?

 

[Fortune]

maybe f tilt, or dair

 

[Da Shuffla]

I'm kind of new to Puff, but I was going to say Dair. I don't see much of it, but I feel like the move deserves a closer look.

 

[MaPow]

Dair is very good, if you L-cancel it its a guaranteed grab, and puffs grabs are like woah. Also against floaties Dair -> usmash is a solid KO option

pound. i pound a lot. its great against fast-fallers because at low % its a tech chase and if they don't tech you can jab reset --> rest. and against lighter weight characters and fastfallers at higher % it can lead to uairs or just a straight up rest, no one ever knows how to DI pound its so random. The only bad thing is that its extremely punishable if your playing against fox.

And dtilt is underrated/neverused because its punishable af, but if you throw one out at the ledge while someones trying to recover, it will set up a free edge-guard, and much swag is involved.

 

[Bones0]

Dsmash is the most underrated. Amazing hitbox, good strength, and amazing KB angle. I guess Puff doesn't need it for edgeguards as much as most characters, but any time I get hit by it I'm really confused and frustrated. lol

 

[Cold Fusion]

So it turns out Jigglypuff has a d-throw chain throw on fast fallers... Except I don't think it works against peeps who DI.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Sing is most definitely the most underrated move in Puff's arsenal. I use that **** all the time because it lets you grab onto the ledge backwards. Especially on Battlefield, if I'm on a side plat I can run towards the ledge, shield-drop through the plat and fall past the ledge, then Sing to edgehog, because if you haven't used a midair jump you can "buffer" the Sing while falling without jumping. You can also just run or jump off the ledge and use it for instant edgehog. People have no clue.

Also, Rollout. It may be gimmicky, but its power doubles with each consecutive hit if you fully charge it every time, don't miss, and don't use any other moves in between (up to a maximum of 5 times, then its power resets). It also doubles again if you used Defense Curl first.

 

[MaPow]

Dsmash is the most underrated. Amazing hitbox, good strength, and amazing KB angle. I guess Puff doesn't need it for edgeguards as much as most characters, but any time I get hit by it I'm really confused and frustrated. lol

I totally forgot this move is so cute and works pretty well against falcons and ganons recovery, but they can tech it :/

 

[Da Shuffla]

Dsmash's kb angle is perfection.

Sing-> Ledge grab is something that I need to incorporate.

 

[the wizard howl]

if they don't DI dthrow out then it's a rest. I dunno why you would regrab when you could just kill them lol.

 

[MaPow]

Dthrow is really good when you grab someone near the ledge because they will have the option to DI off-stage where you can setup for an easier edge-guard, or DI in (or not at all) then they get rested.

 

[Cold Fusion]

if they don't DI dthrow out then it's a rest. I dunno why you would regrab when you could just kill them lol.

You grab them at 0% when d-throw rest wouldn't kill them.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

You grab them at 0% when d-throw rest wouldn't kill them.

Depending on the location on the stage, I'd still go for an uair or ac nair to potentially get a lethal Rest or else tack on some damage before the regrab. At least, that seems to work pretty well for me when spacies flub the DI on the uthrow at 0%. Regardless, the dthrow takes so long that exploring/practicing follow-ups on DI in is probably not a good use of your time.

Also, DI in is probably better on dthrow at the ledge than anywhere else, because the Rest might kill you too.

 

[V-K]

Hey, any strategies against Zelda?

 

[the wizard howl]

you can CC rest sooo much of her stuff

 

[V-K]

you can CC rest sooo much of her stuff

Really?
I'm always getting wrecked by someone who just spams fair and dair until I die, I don't seem to be able to punish it. And I can't edgeguard her either..

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Really?
I'm always getting wrecked by someone who just spams fair and dair until I die, I don't seem to be able to punish it. And I can't edgeguard her either..

Well, lots of people say Puff can Rest Peach's dash attack oos, but I've yet to have a smart Peach dash attack on my shield.

I think some more relevant advice is to try to bait out the fair with empty jumps, then smack her after she misses. You will probably stay safest if you focus on empty jump -> CC or empty jump -> wd away, but don't overlook stuff like empty jump -> grab/fsmash/utilt/etc. or just straight-up bairs/nairs/dairs if the opportunity arises.

Edgeguarding Zelda is easy because her upB is laggy in every sense of the word. Just hang onto that ledge and force her to recover onstage and you should be able to react to on-stage recovery with Rest/fsmash/usmash/poop in her mouth.

tl;dr Bounce around like a jackass until she lets you drop steaming faeces in her oral cavity.

 

[Bones0]

Learn to edgeguard with edgehog to LH drill grab. Hbox does that all the time.

 

[V-K]

Well, lots of people say Puff can Rest Peach's dash attack oos, but I've yet to have a smart Peach dash attack on my shield.

I think some more relevant advice is to try to bait out the fair with empty jumps, then smack her after she misses. You will probably stay safest if you focus on empty jump -> CC or empty jump -> wd away, but don't overlook stuff like empty jump -> grab/fsmash/utilt/etc. or just straight-up bairs/nairs/dairs if the opportunity arises.

Edgeguarding Zelda is easy because her upB is laggy in every sense of the word. Just hang onto that ledge and force her to recover onstage and you should be able to react to on-stage recovery with Rest/fsmash/usmash/poop in her mouth.

tl;dr Bounce around like a ******* until she lets you drop steaming faeces in her oral cavity.

Thx for the reply.

The thing is, he always does 2 fairs/dairs per jump and then shields immediately. Even if he misses his first one, he often hits me with the second one and then I die at like 70%. When I fsmash him and he shields --> instant kick in my face. And I tried to edgeguard him, when I hang onto the ledge he teleports somewhere to an upper platform and I can't reach him...

Learn to edgeguard with edgehog to LH drill grab. Hbox does that all the time.

LH does that mean longhop? Well I would do that if I could predict where he goes.

 

[Da Shuffla]

LH means ledge hop.

Drill grab is awkward. Failed miserably while practicing it today.

 

[the wizard howl]

you can CC/DI in rest zeldas upsmash, fsmash, dash attack, grab etc. This means that you can play it kind of like vs falcon and hop crouch hop crouch hop crouch and there's not much she can do that you won't be able to react to and punish.
Kicks are annoying but puff is better at jumping around and kicking because you have better mobility. Just space well and you should be fine. It's not like you don't know what she wants. Zelda's only good move is kick so just avoid the spacing for that one move and you're golden.
If you can get her above you should get free stage control at the very least. Zelda is profoundly terrible when you're in between her and the ground.
Don't fsmash her shield, haha.
If zelda is shielding a lot that's an invitation for you to start mixing in empty hop grabs or crossup drills. Do not hit her shield willynilly, have a plan when you go in. Throws are actually better than they seem because zelda relies so heavily on having a good footing.
Watch for opportunities to shield poke with uptilt (zelda's feet poke out pretty early) but be mindful that you should get kicked if you're unsuccessful.

All that being said I think this MU can be really annoying. Smart kickers are a pain in the ***. Dumb kickers are free though.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I agree with wizard for the most part. If she recovers on a platform, you can get under her and poke her with uairs. If she is shielding a lot, go for empty hop -> grab or cross-up drill/nair -> grab. If he always does two kicks per jump, that should be pretty predictable to bair him in between them if you can stay just outside the range and make him miss the first one. Your uair should honestly win over Zelda's ****ty dair, or trade which is also a win for you because then she stays above you.

However, Zelda has a better move than kick ... it's called down B.

 

[Massive]

I hate playing against Zelda. Cosmo has knocked me out of 2 tournaments (including EVO) just by being more patient than me. At around the 7 minute mark of the match, I start getting pissed off because I'm being timed out (because that's what zelda does in that match) and do stupid **** that gets me killed.

Here's the opposite of my impatience that will win you the match. Rest at low %s as she cannot punish you until ~60%. Do not follow up aerial combos, she is so light and floaty that she will be able to fair/bair you before you can connect again. Do not chase zelda offstage unless you're sure the trade will kill her (because she can kill you at 60% or so). Do not approach from below because fair and bair hit deceptively low.

Matchups like this (and runaway fox, which happens a lot now) are part of the reason I've been trying to pick up Falco.

 

[V-K]

thx for the replies guys.

I looked at the match ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJpVOoDAXNI#t=14m03s starts at 14:03) and I think his spacing is just way better than mine. Maybe I have to be more patient with bairs or so.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I think his spacing is just way better than mine.

I disagree. It looks to me like your spacing is just about on par, but you seriously need to work on mix-ups. This Luma guy is shielding a lot because he knows you'll attack his shield and he can punish off of it, because you aerial almost every time you jump.

Staying safe has less to do with putting your feet between you and the other guy at all times, and more to do with staying unpredictable; basically, the less he knows about you, the safer you will be. I think if you mix in empty jump -> grab and develop your ground game getting more comfortable with low-commitment actions like wavedashing, crouching, and tilts, you will do much better.

 

[MaPow]

Staying safe has less to do with putting your feet between you and the other guy at all times, and more to do with staying unpredictable; basically, the less he knows about you, the safer you will be. I think if you mix in empty jump -> grab and develop your ground game getting more comfortable with low-commitment actions like wavedashing, crouching, and tilts, you will do much better.

This is so important because if you just throw out aerials all day and expect to get stage control (or some sort of advantage), you probably won't because better players will be able to punish you for it. just use bair and fair to gain space, jump up and down, crouch, and do anything to bait your opponent to throw out an aerial or something stupid so then you can use your aerial mobility to punish them with a bair/fair/nair. if you notice them consistently shielding your aerials, then those empty jump grabs can be a great mixup to successfully gain stage control. Puff's all about getting space, fading in and out, baiting your opponent, then punishing..HARD.

 

[socandrewcer]

Guys I decided to pick up melee and main puff. I'm going to my first melee tourney this saturday. Hopefully I can get a video and get critiqued. I'm stoked!

 

[Fortune]

go ham

ham ham ham

 

[Gamer_Mason]

I was looking for rest combos on Ganondorf (for some reason), and it occurred to me that the location you land rest on ganondorf matters... a lot. And then that works for all the characters.

So we should always be trying to play on the side of the stage farthest away from the opponents respawn point, right? Obviously it won't always matter, but on Final Destination this feels very important. Is there any information on adjusting play based on the ports and respawn points?