Social Bair is underpowered - Puff Social/Disc Thread

[BTmoney]

where the honeydips (puffs) at?

 

[Fortune]

FREEZE *****

 

[BTmoney]

k so, puffs.

when you like, dair, and stuffs, do you want to space it to auto cancel or just L cancel it normally?

 

[Massive]

I was the only puff in bracket at a tourney yesterday.
I still managed to run into two players in pool/bracket who only shorthop double laser and run away with fox.

I hate this game so much right now.

 

[KrIsP!]

I've only run into one guy like, and he was a brawl player to boot. The worst part was that he tried to time me out in friendlies.

 

[Massive]

I learned a long time ago that most brawl players are not the kind of people I want to play friendly games with.
There is a reason they still play the slow, campy, boring smash.

k so, puffs.

when you like, dair, and stuffs, do you want to space it to auto cancel or just L cancel it normally?

I usually go for autocancel.
My hands are apparently too ****ty to reliably L-cancel dair into things.

 

[Bones0]

I learned a long time ago that most brawl players are not the kind of people I want to play friendly games with.
There is a reason they still play the slow, campy, boring smash.


I usually go for autocancel.
My hands are apparently too ****ty to reliably L-cancel dair into things.

Try really focusing on FFing right before you hit the ground. It makes the L-cancel much easier to time, and it also seems to result in the flip animation more often anyway.

 

[Krynxe]

Read their movement better

you really can't wall in melee like you can in brawl. if they can successfully camp you, then you're just missing your opportunities to do damage.

 

[KrIsP!]

Mango's puff just aint what it used to be but the progression was hilarious, like he just kicked in gear at 10:57 and grasped her movement again. Before then I was going to stop watching now I wonder if he'll continue practicing her for evo. www.twitch.tv/bobby_scar/b/425416590&t=10m50s

 

[genkaku]

did you see the shield break at 19 min? so funny

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, I watched that stuff live. So good, people who said mango's puff is washed up are #sadlymistaken

 

[BTmoney]

Soooooo many nairs.

I never understood the way Hbox nair'd it just looks bad he seems to to get punished for it a lot lol (although he's the better puff imo). But then again, to me Hbox's puff in neutral is actually super abstract compared to Mangos. I never noticed until now the huge focus on abusing puffs auto cancels and her usable footsies.

 

[Bones0]

Soooooo many nairs.

I never understood the way Hbox nair'd it just looks bad he seems to to get punished for it a lot lol (although he's the better puff imo). But then again, to me Hbox's puff in neutral is actually super abstract compared to Mangos. I never noticed until now the huge focus on abusing puffs auto cancels and her usable footsies.

Hbox straight up spams nairs vs. spacies at 0% because one trade tacks on 9% and opens them up for pound punishes that otherwise wouldn't get the knockdown.

 

[Prince_Abu]

how do u beat marth

 

[Krynxe]

Stay on the ground way more + crouch a lot -> forces him to use ftilt and dtilt

shield them, fair OOS etc etc (don't walk/float into them, obviously) -> forces him to grab more

smack him for trying to grab you and/or duck his standing grabs (laugh at their face if they try to JC grab and you duck it)


edit: found an old post I made with more detail - http://smashboards.com/threads/bair...cial-disc-thread.316838/page-21#post-15458196

 

[V]

So everybody knows that HBox gets blamed for having a gay playstyle and that it's supposedly bad for the game, but when I watch videos of other puff players going back in time it seems like all their play styles are very similar, he just happens to be a better player. Everybody decent with puff plays gay because that's how she wins. So why does everybody pin puff's gayness on him?

 

[-LzR-]

I think it's more like your opponents play gay because Puff can't approach well. We would play more awesome if we could, but we are a slow ass aerial fighter who can't shine to dair everyone all the time.

 

[Massive]

So everybody knows that HBox gets blamed for having a gay playstyle and that it's supposedly bad for the game, but when I watch videos of other puff players going back in time it seems like all their play styles are very similar, he just happens to be a better player. Everybody decent with puff plays gay because that's how she wins. So why does everybody pin puff's gayness on him?

People misunderstand how difficult it is to play puff at a high level and trivialize it. If someone (i.e. M2K) loses to a puff (Hbox) it's because the character is "gay and super easy to play"; when that same person loses to a fox, "he got outplayed".

In addition to this stigma, Hbox has been the best, basically only, nationally recognized puff player around for the past several years (longer than most of these "gay-sayers" have been playing), making it pretty easy to see how someone would consider puff's gayness his invention, even if it's been around forever and is arguably less broken and ****ing stupid than most of the things Fox does.

 

[V]

See I put puff into the same category as marth and peach for how they play, it's just that she has five jumps and rest which are unique and basically define the character. I'm not sure if fox is gayer than puff (the puff boards are extremely biased against fox surprise surprise lol) but he does have many more consistent methods of setting up his gayness than puff does (although setting puff bias aside falco is MUCH gayer than fox vs the rest of the cast).

I'm considering picking up puff as a doubles character and possibly a secondary vs falco and shiek (I main marth) but I'm scared of playing a smart puff and being labeled a HBox clone since his style is the optimal style for puff. I guess if you're going to play puff well you can't really care.

 

[KrIsP!]

Puff stigmas =/ I can style on some scrubs with 0-death combos but when I face a competent opponent they just do the basic stuff and then tell me to bair more.

Puff boards are biased against fox cause most of them like to laser camp then up throw uair or fish for bairs or up smash and then go on the Internet and complain about up throw rest and everyone nods in agreement. Fox has his shine and speed, he really should never get grabbed.

Besides, if you actually watch hbox play now he's nothing like he was a few years ago. And it's not the only way to play puff either. I'm trying very hard to not play puff that way, people told me to just switch characters cause everyone deals with the MU by playing defensive but the dream lives. Just have to play smarter, not "gay"er.

 

[Massive]

...since his style is the optimal style for puff...

This is not true, Hbox's style is a very successful style for puff.
Take a look at mango's also impressively successful puff style and note the very visible differences in their methods.

The puff metagame isn't nearly as evolved as some of the other characters' simply from lack of representation.

 

[Fortune]

I'm scared of playing a smart puff and being labeled a HBox clone since his style is the optimal style for puff. I guess if you're going to play puff well you can't really care.

Yeah, it's a waste of energy to concern yourself with what people think of your playstyle. I wouldn't say HBox's gameplay should define "the optimal style." I wouldn't call playing smart "his style." Playing smart is no one's style. It's just playing smart.

 

[Bones0]

I don't understand how anyone can consider Hbox's playstyle gay. He doesn't even play Peach.

 

[-LzR-]

Or spacies

 

[crush]

spacies arent gay smh noobs

 

[Lukingordex]

I learned a long time ago that most brawl players are not the kind of people I want to play friendly games with.

If you're playing against brawlers that mains MK,Falco,Snake,Olimar or Marth you can definitely expect a boring match.

But Brawl has his hard and more technical characters too,but unfortunately,most of them are low/mids so almost
no melee players knows how hard it is to have a decent Lucas,for example.

 

[-LzR-]

Just because a character sucks doesn't mean he is hard. The opposite applies as well. Just deal with the fact that better characters are better.

 

[Lukingordex]

Just because a character sucks doesn't mean he is hard. The opposite applies as well. Just deal with the fact that better characters are better.

You misunderstood my post.

I didn't said that ALL the bad characters are hard to play,lol

 

[-LzR-]

Well neither is Lucas. He is just bad.

 

[V]

The only gay space animal is falco. Lasers are the dumbest fail safe in the game. I'm not sure what to do; shoot lasers. They're getting frustrated; shoot lasers. I'm ahead in stocks; shoot lasers. I'm down in stocks; shoot lasers. The sky is blue; shoot lasers.

 

[Massive]

If you're playing against brawlers that mains MK,Falco,Snake,Olimar or Marth you can definitely expect a boring match.

But Brawl has his hard and more technical characters too,but unfortunately,most of them are low/mids so almost
no melee players knows how hard it is to have a decent Lucas,for example.

Unfortunately technical characters (like lucas) get release-grabbed to death by less technical characters (MARF), rendering them basically useless.
There are too many janky, silly things that override any technical neatness that may have made brawl worth it to me.

Also, when I played brawl, I actually did main Ness/Lucas.

 

[Lukingordex]

Try playing Lucas/Ness in Project Melee,I stopped using Brawl Lucas just to play with him at that awesome mod.

 

[Bones0]

The only gay space animal is falco. Lasers are the dumbest fail safe in the game. I'm not sure what to do; shoot lasers. They're getting frustrated; shoot lasers. I'm ahead in stocks; shoot lasers. I'm down in stocks; shoot lasers. The sky is blue; shoot lasers.

Pretty sure you're just awful if you think laser spam is good.

 

[CyberZixx]

Pretty sure you're just awful if you think laser spam is good.

You can't straight up spam lasers and hope to succeed as Falco but they are an excellent, versatile, non committal pressure tool that can be used full stage. No other character has something like that.

 

[Bones0]

You can't straight up spam lasers and hope to succeed as Falco but they are an excellent, versatile, non committal pressure tool that can be used full stage. No other character has something like that.

No other character has a massive disjointed hitbox on every hitbox like Marth. No other character has aerials with advantages as solid as Peach's FCs. No other character has a CG as deadly as Sheik's is on half the cast. Every character has different tools that are unique to them. That's kind of the point of having different characters in the first place. Complaining about other characters' attributes is pointless. I would think people on the Puff board would understand better than most considering how many idiots complain about how you can just spam bair and win with her, but I guess not.

 

[CyberZixx]

No other character has a massive disjointed hitbox on every hitbox like Marth. No other character has aerials with advantages as solid as Peach's FCs. No other character has a CG as deadly as Sheik's is on half the cast. Every character has different tools that are unique to them. That's kind of the point of having different characters in the first place. Complaining about other characters' attributes is pointless. I would think people on the Puff board would understand better than most considering how many idiots complain about how you can just spam bair and win with her, but I guess not.

That is true. All top melee tiers have their own thing, which is one thing I like about the balance and character designs in this game. I don't find Falco's laser the most annnoying (read only) thing in the game to deal with beacuse of how it takes allow you to take total command of neutral. I am a fan of the movement, footsies style neutral play in melee. Thus why I play Marth. Falco just goes against that and has a totally different style of neutral than the other characters and makes you play it. That is why you may have sensed disdain for lasers in my post. Falco is not fun for me to deal with.

 

[V]

Pretty sure you're just awful if you think laser spam is good.

I'm being semi facetious. I'm not talking about stupid lasers, I'm talking about thought out spaced lasers a la Dr.PP, which are worse than stupid lasers because they're harder to deal with. Yeah, every high tier character has their own claim to fame, but Falco's lasers are easier to complain about because they're a super low risk option that forces you to either evade, shield, or get hit, all of which don't get you any closer to putting Falco offstage and give him free set ups if he decides to commit to an approach.

 

[-LzR-]

In theory lasers are always bad because powershield. So go and become TAS and make us proud. My stupid lasers get reflected back half of the time because I am bad.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I'm being semi facetious. I'm not talking about stupid lasers, I'm talking about thought out spaced lasers a la Dr.PP, which are worse than stupid lasers because they're harder to deal with. Yeah, every high tier character has their own claim to fame, but Falco's lasers are easier to complain about because they're a super low risk option that forces you to either evade, shield, or get hit, all of which don't get you any closer to putting Falco offstage and give him free set ups if he decides to commit to an approach.

Falco lasers are undeniably easy to perform (Y + B), but that doesn't mean they are easy to use effectively at a high level of play. Every high tier character has some way of dealing with the trademark strategies of other high tier characters, which plays a large role in making them high tier in the first place.

And anyways, the Puff threads are probably the least suitable place on SWF to ***** about Falco lasers when you really think about it.

 

[Massive]

Try playing Lucas/Ness in Project Melee,I stopped using Brawl Lucas just to play with him at that awesome mod.

I play Ness in project M from time to time. HE'S SO MUCH BETTER.

I find fox's lasers to be more annoying than falco's lasers, mostly because he can force you to approach with them and power-shielding them gives no substantial advantage.