• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

BaganSmashBros and ko.'s Kustom Kontent - King K. Rool, Kraid and...Metal Face?!

How would you rate each project?

  • (K. Rool) Kotally Awesome 5/5

    Votes: 166 80.2%
  • (K. Rool) Kool 4/5

    Votes: 18 8.7%
  • (K. Rool) ...ok? 3/5

    Votes: 10 4.8%
  • (K. Rool) K. Rapp 2/5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • (K. Rool) Kek 1/5

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • (Kraid) Awesomesauce 5/5

    Votes: 54 26.1%
  • (Kraid) Very good 4/5

    Votes: 27 13.0%
  • (Kraid) Good 3/5

    Votes: 34 16.4%
  • (Kraid) Fair 2/5

    Votes: 14 6.8%
  • (Kraid) Poor 1/5

    Votes: 15 7.2%
  • (Metal Face) ...SMASHING! Hah hah hah 5/5

    Votes: 90 43.5%
  • (Metal Face) Acceptable 4/5

    Votes: 38 18.4%
  • (Metal Face) Weak! 3/5

    Votes: 15 7.2%
  • (Metal Face) Pathetic! 2/5

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • (Metal Face) Worthless! 1/5

    Votes: 16 7.7%

  • Total voters
    207
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,926
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
NNID
Ridleylash
3DS FC
1736-1657-3905
Also, I'm sure it's been brought up before, but is there any way to bring those massive shoulders inwards? It just seems a little disproportionate to me when he should be a little more egged shaped. Not sure if those changes could be made.
It should be possible; but technically, K.Rool doesn't look like an egg, but more of a pear shape; his upper torso is narrower than his lower torso, so it doesn't have the egg shape to it. He's no Eggman. :p

K.Rool's shoulders are pretty broad, as well; at least in the Paon design, they are, and we're mixing both somewhat, sort of like what we did with Ridley; with Rare K.Rool's head, cape, feet, hands and crown and Paon K.Rool's cape jewel and shoulder width.
 

Zombie Saurian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
485
I do think the shoulders should be reduced in width, it's just an asthetic thing that's bothering me. It's definitely not a deal breaker though, it's just a personal gripe.
 

Jmanthesmasher683

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
475
Location
House
I've seen you say that there are no more spots for beta testers. Is that true because it's only said on one reply. if yes i'd recommend you add it to the thread title so people won't ask constantly. that happens a lot
 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
It should be possible; but technically, K.Rool doesn't look like an egg, but more of a pear shape; his upper torso is narrower than his lower torso, so it doesn't have the egg shape to it. He's no Eggman. :p
He looks more like a potato to me.
0.png

Im 5% sorry for this lame image.
...where am i even going with this?
K.Rool's shoulders are pretty broad, as well; at least in the Paon design, they are, and we're mixing both somewhat, sort of like what we did with Ridley; with Rare K.Rool's head, cape, feet, hands and crown and Paon K.Rool's cape jewel and shoulder width.
His hands are unique. Both official designs have more human-like hands (the only real difference is that Paon K.Rool actually has claws) while Álvaro_WS's K. Rool are more like...don't know how to describe it...but i like it more this way. Also, he lacks a tail like Paon K. Rool. But yeah, its 90% Rare and 10% Paon.
I've seen you say that there are no more spots for beta testers. Is that true because it's only said on one reply. if yes i'd recommend you add it to the thread title so people won't ask constantly. that happens a lot
Yes, it is true, so, i fixed that. Not in the title, but if you'll read the OP, you'll know about that.
Bagan, good job on everything you did so far. I'll happily take this a consolation prize if December doesn't deliver. That model fits with the cast better than I'd thought it would.
Thanks.
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Thanks for that, i wish i could be a beta tester but i am bad at heavy characters anyway.
...im bad with them too.


Anyway, i finally fixed something that bothered me about Metal Face's claw trails. Before, they were like this:
00000000-99.png
Here, trail isn't smooth (i doubt its the right word for it) like other sword trails and he isn't even rotating his hand quickly. Now its like this:
00000000-33.png
00000000-35.png
I didn't know it actually matters how those sword trails are attached. I thought it was fine either way as long as they are going between same bones.

While we have K. Rool's model ready, i still need to figure out how to animate it without making him look unnatural. Thats not going to be easy after working with 2 thin characters with long limbs (Ridley and MF, but mostly Ridley because i was working on him for since 2014). So, either we won't have news or there won't be much.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
531
Location
The inbetween
...im bad with them too.


Anyway, i finally fixed something that bothered me about Metal Face's claw trails. Before, they were like this:
Here, trail isn't smooth (i doubt its the right word for it) like other sword trails and he isn't even rotating his hand quickly. Now its like this:
I didn't know it actually matters how those sword trails are attached. I thought it was fine either way as long as they are going between same bones.

While we have K. Rool's model ready, i still need to figure out how to animate it without making him look unnatural. Thats not going to be easy after working with 2 thin characters with long limbs (Ridley and MF, but mostly Ridley because i was working on him for since 2014). So, either we won't have news or there won't be much.
i see what you mean about the sword trails,they look smoother and less edgy. the sword air trails look alot better now.

as for k rool i suggest looking at all of his boss battles and trying to study them to recreate them in smash(dkc 1 would be a good start,dkc 2 would be good for studying the blunderbuss but not good for studying movement because he just skids across the floor,you wont get much from dkc 3 because he mostly flies around instead of walking but you might a few good facial animations there,dk 64 is also nice but it would be harder to study it due to dk 64 being a 3d game and not a 2d sidescroller,so all in all dkc 1 would probably be your best bet)
 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
i see what you mean about the sword trails,they look smoother and less edgy. the sword air trails look alot better now.

as for k rool i suggest looking at all of his boss battles and trying to study them to recreate them in smash(dkc 1 would be a good start,dkc 2 would be good for studying the blunderbuss but not good for studying movement because he just skids across the floor,you wont get much from dkc 3 because he mostly flies around instead of walking but you might a few good facial animations there,dk 64 is also nice but it would be harder to study it due to dk 64 being a 3d game and not a 2d sidescroller,so all in all dkc 1 would probably be your best bet)
I think using DK64 would be better because he is in a boxing ring here. I'll still use other games for things like his crown toss and flinching animations from 1. But i'll use some other...big characters for animation references too.

Im nearly done with standing pose, so, i'll get to other animations soon. This is what i have right now:
ScreenCapture99.png

ScreenCapture101.png

I just need to fix few things here. And cape isn't that light in the game.
 

InASnowBoundLand

Smash Lord
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
1,453
Wow. K. Rool looks better and better every time. Really appreciate the gold belly. Thanks again for working on this.

I do agree with Zombie Saurian, though. The broad shoulders look "off-model" and kinda make him look more "monstrous" than he really is. Almost looks like a WWE wrestler.

Also: I don't know if this has been addressed, but I think the colors would look best if they were modeled after the Mii costume in Smash Bros Wii U / 3DS. The darker colors are more true to the DKC games, he would match DK and Diddy more (almost entirely based on the Rare designs in Brawl/PM), and he would better match the rest of the cast (Brawl is more "realistic" like his original colors).

 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Wow. K. Rool looks better and better every time. Really appreciate the gold belly. Thanks again for working on this.

I do agree with Zombie Saurian, though. The broad shoulders look "off-model" and kinda make him look more "monstrous" than he really is. Almost looks like a WWE wrestler.

Also: I don't know if this has been addressed, but I think the colors would look best if they were modeled after the Mii costume in Smash Bros Wii U / 3DS. The darker colors are more true to the DKC games, he would match DK and Diddy more (almost entirely based on the Rare designs in Brawl/PM), and he would better match the rest of the cast (Brawl is more "realistic" like his original colors).

Maybe. Not sure how i can fix it without some things looking distorted (i'll still try to find solution for that), but hey, K. Rool already was a boxer. Seeing him as a wrestler won't be anything surprising. And it could have been far worse.

...Still looks kool.

I know about the colors being too bright. I'll still keep this texture somewhere because of Smash 3C and stuff, but i will make him darker. K. Rool's trophy in Brawl also can be a good example of how dark his scales should be.
Also, turns out that Brawl and Sm4sh K. Rool trophies have same model (just in different poses and Sm4sh trophy's textures are more colorful).
 
Last edited:

Angelglory

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
748
Location
East Coast, US
NNID
Angelglory
3DS FC
2750-1110-8929
You can also use Mario Sluggers for reference as well since he's in that too. Of course nothing moveset worthy, but misc animations like walking, throwing items and swinging the bat. (My first post in months, let's go!)
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
You can also use Mario Sluggers for reference as well since he's in that too. Of course nothing moveset worthy, but misc animations like walking, throwing items and swinging the bat. (My first post in months, let's go!)
That could work...but its going to be hard to look at those animations without ripping them or something.
 

SuperSmashSean

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
377
Location
Wily Castle
Speaking of Melee's model for Kraid (I know I'm a bit late to say this), but is it possible to use Melee's model for now as a substitute to prepare for the new model, or are the two that much different?

Melee's model is here, and it really isn't the worst looking thing out there. The only problem would be shrinking it, making it look worse.

 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Speaking of Melee's model for Kraid (I know I'm a bit late to say this), but is it possible to use Melee's model for now as a substitute to prepare for the new model, or are the two that much different?

Melee's model is here, and it really isn't the worst looking thing out there. The only problem would be shrinking it, making it look worse.

They are too different.

Also, that model has bad rigging and it just looks bad for Brawl.
 

MerryShadow

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70
They are too different.

Also, that model has bad rigging and it just looks bad for Brawl.
They actually are quite similar (proportion wise), except for how long the neck is.
And Frayark's model doesn't look as rigid as i thought at first, which is good. Mad props to you Frayark!

On the topic of the moveset, have you settled on something already? I've been thinking about it for the past 2 weeks or so, and I figured a playstyle/moveset that should allow him to stand a chance against the likes of Fox/Falco as a slow heavyweight. I just need to write it down, and maybe do some quick doodles to illustrate it.
 
Last edited:

OmegaX5000

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
242
I don't know why, but there's something about K. Rools current facial expression that makes him look very depressed. I think it might be his eyes or something, but it seems like he doesn't look all too confident. Maybe a couple of tweaks to the eyes might help with that.
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
They actually are quite similar (proportion wise), except for how long the neck is.
And Frayark's model doesn't look as rigid as i thought at first, which is good. Mad props to you Frayark!

On the topic of the moveset, have you settled on something already? I've been thinking about it for the past 2 weeks or so, and I figured a playstyle/moveset that should allow him to stand a chance against the likes of Fox/Falco as a slow heavyweight. I just need to write it down, and maybe do some quick doodles to illustrate it.
Frayark's Kraid has longer legs and nearly no neck. But the main problem here is rigging.

Not really, so, i would like to hear what you have in mind.
I don't know why, but there's something about K. Rools current facial expression that makes him look very depressed. I think it might be his eyes or something, but it seems like he doesn't look all too confident. Maybe a couple of tweaks to the eyes might help with that.
I think its because he never blinks. He has that "i've seen some s**t that would turn you white" kind of face. However, i can rig his eyebrows without much problems so he could at least have expressions. He would still be unable to blink, but better than nothing.
 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
whats he going to sound like?
Which one? If Kraid, then something like his SM and ZM roars. If K. Rool, then i don't know, but it certainly should fit other characters like him (Bowser, DK, Diddy, etc.). However, crocodiles' sounds don't sound fitting for someone like K. Rool, so, gotta be creative.
 

SuperSmashSean

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
377
Location
Wily Castle
Which one? If Kraid, then something like his SM and ZM roars. If K. Rool, then i don't know, but it certainly should fit other characters like him (Bowser, DK, Diddy, etc.). However, crocodiles' sounds don't sound fitting for someone like K. Rool, so, gotta be creative.
For K. Rool, you can use his DKC 1-3 clips for some sounds, but you can mostly use his clips from DK64 with them. There are also his voice clips from Mario Super Sluggers and DK Barrel Blast.

If you think it won't fit in well, you can still use it but just change some character's voice clips. For instance, I replaced DK and Diddy's sounds with their ones from DK64. I also changed Bowser's to his Inside Story sound clips. People have made these and are on KCMM. I can give you the links and we can pack the sounds as an optional add-on with K. Rool.
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
For K. Rool, you can use his DKC 1-3 clips for some sounds, but you can mostly use his clips from DK64 with them. There are also his voice clips from Mario Super Sluggers and DK Barrel Blast.

If you think it won't fit in well, you can still use it but just change some character's voice clips. For instance, I replaced DK and Diddy's sounds with their ones from DK64. I also changed Bowser's to his Inside Story sound clips. People have made these and are on KCMM. I can give you the links and we can pack the sounds as an optional add-on with K. Rool.
Kremlings' grunts certainly will fit and his voice from 64 can be used too, but its still not in Brawl's style. Then again, its not something people liked, so, i can make 2 sound packs.
And i know about those mods, but i don't mind Brawl's sounds.
 
Last edited:

SuperSmashSean

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
377
Location
Wily Castle
Kremlings' grunts certainly will fit and his voice from 64 can be used too, but its still not in Brawl's style. Then again, its not something people liked, so, i can make 2 sound packs.
And i know about those mods, but i don't mind Brawl's sounds.
If you or someone you know can edit audio good, then I would try to use crocodile sounds, but change the pitch to make it fit K. Rool. Just throwing out ideas to help.

 

MerryShadow

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70
Frayark's Kraid has longer legs and nearly no neck. But the main problem here is rigging.

Not really, so, i would like to hear what you have in mind.

I think its because he never blinks. He has that "i've seen some s**t that would turn you white" kind of face. However, i can rig his eyebrows without much problems so he could at least have expressions. He would still be unable to blink, but better than nothing.
Okay, should i post it here or on the conversation? I guess here, right now the conv is more about K.Rool and Metal Face.

Edit: Here it is. Some moves are inspired or taken straight from other movesets posted earlier.
This is more of a suggestion for a playstyle than for a moveset, so i'll add a * in front of moves i believe to be fondamental to the playstyle i suggest. Kill moves are in italic and bold. Combo starters are underlined. Frame data is inaccurate at best >.>
Kraid moveset idea:

Slow walking speed.
Slow running speed (Barely faster than his walk).
Medium jump height (can land on a lower BF platform from a full jump).
Medium double jump height (can land on top BF platform from a full jump+double jump).
DDD-like short hop.
Heavyweight (more than bowser), low fall speed (not higher than bowser).
Fast fall roughly doubles fall speed.
Wavedash length: short.

Jab: 8% Animation similar to his claw attack in melee. Low damage and knockback, comes out as fast as bowser's jab. Best option when the opponent is too close for comfort.

*Ftilt: 14% A belly thrust. Moves Kraid forward a bit, covering the area in front of him. Quick start-up, punishable endlag on whiff. The belly spikes provide some disjoint. Allows Kraid to push through an opponent's spaced attacks (provided they don't have more disjoint than him).

*Dtilt: 10% A tail sweep (think Mewtwo/Zard'd Dtilt). Quick start-up, hardly punishable endlag, low range and knockback (roughly roy's dtilt). Great CC move, and one of Kraid's only actual combo starter, it can link into his aerials/smashe/specials, depending on percents (when i say combo, don't expect kraid to actually 0 to death anyone like ganon or roy does).

Utilt: 4% per hit, 5 hits. An overhead, arching acid spit. Works like Samus' Usmash. Thanks to it's decent disjoint, this move is a great anti-air. Fast start-up, but punishable on whiff, doesn't cover in front or behind kraid.

Dash attack: 8% A running bite. Kraid stops running, leans forward and bites in front of him (or alternatively, claws). Fast start-up, hardly punishable, but low knockback and range. Not the greatest move, but it's kraid's fastest out-of-run option.

*Fsmash: 24% Kraid steps backward, turn around and violently swipe his tail in front of him. Long start-up (roughly 35 frames), short endlag (still punishable, but less than most smashes of this type). The stepback lets Kraid dodge some attacks, and Kraid's tail is intangible until the hitbox is gone (best comparison i've got is Tink's Fsmash, except he jumps backward instead of forward). The high low-angle knockback makes it a dangerous move to get hit by, but you'll have to rely on a read to land it in most cases.

*Usmash: 18% An upward bite. Kraid hops a little, and bite above him. Medium start-up (roughly 25 frames), This move has Kraid's upper body intangible until the hitbox disappear, making it a great anti-air, but it needs good timing. High knockback.

Dsmash: 10% Kraid stomps the ground in front of him, sending grounded foes flying upward. Long, disjointed range (1/4 of FD), but only hits grounded opponents. The fixed knockback on this move alows it to be a combo starter, like dtilt. However, the longer range comes with a longer start-up (roughly 25 frames) and punishable endlag. Optional: a secondary input causes kraid to stomp behind him after the first stomp (or alternatively, in the same direction).

*Nair: 8% Similar to DDD's Nair. Kraid exposes his spikes down and in front of him while falling. This move is a sex kick, with the spikes hitboxes disjointed. It also has a landing hitbox (as Kraid slams into the ground when landing). Short landing lag.

*Fair (Not sure about this one. I like its uses, but the dropkick is silly): 30% A drop kick kinda move. LOOOOOONG start-up (60 frames minimum), but high,low-angle knockback, damage and decent range. Even L-canceled, the landing lag is ridiculously long (30 frames), but it's not a move you should throw out in neutral, instead you use it when you land a Dtilt/Dsmash or UpB/SideB: It's your best punish move, but miss it and you'll regret it.

Dair: 24% A downward tail strike. Kraid *slowly and gracefully* spin sideways and swipe his tail downward (think of Mewtwo's down air, but with a tail attack and a fat lizard instead). Long-ish start-up, this move is a meteor with a long vertical range and a long landing lag (though nowhere as long as Fair's). Can be used to edgeguard, or as a combo when the opponent's not damaged enough to be killed by a Fair.

*Bair (I had no idea what to do for this one): 12% Kraid turns around a slash behind him. Like Marth and Lucario, this Bair lets Kraid change the direction he is facing in midair. Fast start-up, low range and knockback. A move with few uses, but turning around in the air is important for Kraid.

*Uair: 14% An upward acid spit. Like Zelda's up air, it's a false projectile. Kraid spit an explosive glob of acid above him, creating a big disjointed hitbox. Medium start-up and knockback.

Grab: Fast, but short range. Grabs by bitting the opponent.
Uthrow: 14% Kraid jumps and falls back down with his opponent under him, kinda like Brawl!Bowser's sideB. A kill throw.
Dthrow: 8% Kraid slams his opponent to the ground in front of him. Knockback similar to Dtilt, combo starter at low percents.
Fthrow and Bthrow: 7% Both are quick get-off-me throws, but also serve as DI mix-ups (like wario's neutralB).

The specials are the same i posted a while ago on the main ridley thread:

*NeutralB: "Spike cannon" 10% per spikes. Kraid starts the match and each stocks with no spikes. (optional Moves that use spikes (Ftilt and Nair) have no disjoint as long as you don't have your spikes loaded) Using neutralB "loads" a set of spikes (roughly 30 frames): once loaded, the spikes act as a passive shield (like link and Tink's shields) during his standing, walking, running jumping, falling and crouching animations, clanking projectiles. Using NeutralB again shoots out the spikes in a cone, with a range roughly half FD. The spikes themselves travel fast and have medium knockback and the startup is about 14 frames. the aerial version fires slightly downward and propels Kraid backward (increasing his recovery if used cleverly).

SideB (for this move, i don't know what would be the best kind of projectile, so it's more of a placeholder than anything): "Acid shot" 2% per tick, up to 30% (with suicidal DI). Kraid spits an acid projectile in front of him. The projectile itself act like a slow moving triggered PK fire, last 3 seconds and hits multiple times. Medium start-up and endlag. This move alows Kraid to control the stage by placing a long lasting, independant hitbox. Only one can be out at a time.

*UpB: "Talon throw" 6% Kraid throws a spinning talon upward. Fast start-up and endlag. The talon slowly travels in an arc, denying the space above Kraid from the opponent. If possible, the arc should go farther/higher with different inputs. The aerial version has Kraid stall his fall, like yoshi's upB/olimar's NeutralB.

*DownB: "uh... Brinstar's giant? Fat power? i dunno" Kraid braces himself and gains substracive armor (same as yoshi's double jump) after 60 frames, which last for 30 frames. Only half the amount of armor is gained in the air (how much armor you get needs to be determined through testing though). If Kraid is hit during any armored part of the animation, it can be canceled into anything. Medium endlag. THis move alows Kraid to bait the opponent and punish them.


Overall, this moveset should make Kraid a character that thrives on spacing out and reading his opponents: unlike characters like bowser, Kraid can manipulate his opponent's options when they approach him, which makes his reads easier to do. He also is somewhat immune to camping, yet he can't really camp himself, due to the overall low range of his projectiles. He is a bait-and-punish character with the tools to actually bait his opponent: against Kraid, is that space in his defenses an actual exploitable opening, or is the Kraid player leaving himself open so he can punish you when you try to run in? as Kraid, How will you condition your opponent to choose an approach over another, so you can hit hm out of it, and hopefully combo into Fair/Dair/NeutralB?

Since this moveset needs a projectile on upB, neutralB and SideB, i assume Ness or Lucas would be good candidates to be replaced by Kraid.
Tell me if anything is unclear, i'll try to elaborate. Of course this is open to suggestion, if you think something would fit the bait-and-punish/wall playstyle more.
 
Last edited:

Kazooie56

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
136
im probably going to only talk about k.rool but anyway, i think k rool's weight should be equal to bowser and his fingers look...really freaky
 

ZenythSmash

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
973
3DS FC
2552-4344-0495
is there a chance for PM K. Rool or Metal Face to thrive in another Brawl mod?
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Okay, should i post it here or on the conversation? I guess here, right now the conv is more about K.Rool and Metal Face.

Edit: Here it is. Some moves are inspired or taken straight from other movesets posted earlier.
This is more of a suggestion for a playstyle than for a moveset, so i'll add a * in front of moves i believe to be fondamental to the playstyle i suggest. Kill moves are in italic and bold. Combo starters are underlined. Frame data is inaccurate at best >.>
Kraid moveset idea:

Slow walking speed.
Slow running speed (Barely faster than his walk).
Medium jump height (can land on a lower BF platform from a full jump).
Medium double jump height (can land on top BF platform from a full jump+double jump).
DDD-like short hop.
Heavyweight (more than bowser), low fall speed (not higher than bowser).
Fast fall roughly doubles fall speed.
Wavedash length: short.

Jab: 8% Animation similar to his claw attack in melee. Low damage and knockback, comes out as fast as bowser's jab. Best option when the opponent is too close for comfort.

*Ftilt: 14% A belly thrust. Moves Kraid forward a bit, covering the area in front of him. Quick start-up, punishable endlag on whiff. The belly spikes provide some disjoint. Allows Kraid to push through an opponent's spaced attacks (provided they don't have more disjoint than him).

*Dtilt: 10% A tail sweep (think Mewtwo/Zard'd Dtilt). Quick start-up, hardly punishable endlag, low range and knockback (roughly roy's dtilt). Great CC move, and one of Kraid's only actual combo starter, it can link into his aerials/smashe/specials, depending on percents (when i say combo, don't expect kraid to actually 0 to death anyone like ganon or roy does).

Utilt: 4% per hit, 5 hits. An overhead, arching acid spit. Works like Samus' Usmash. Thanks to it's decent disjoint, this move is a great anti-air. Fast start-up, but punishable on whiff, doesn't cover in front or behind kraid.

Dash attack: 8% A running bite. Kraid stops running, leans forward and bites in front of him (or alternatively, claws). Fast start-up, hardly punishable, but low knockback and range. Not the greatest move, but it's kraid's fastest out-of-run option.

*Fsmash: 24% Kraid steps backward, turn around and violently swipe his tail in front of him. Long start-up (roughly 35 frames), short endlag (still punishable, but less than most smashes of this type). The stepback lets Kraid dodge some attacks, and Kraid's tail is intangible until the hitbox is gone (best comparison i've got is Tink's Fsmash, except he jumps backward instead of forward). The high low-angle knockback makes it a dangerous move to get hit by, but you'll have to rely on a read to land it in most cases.

*Usmash: 18% An upward bite. Kraid hops a little, and bite above him. Medium start-up (roughly 25 frames), This move has Kraid's upper body intangible until the hitbox disappear, making it a great anti-air, but it needs good timing. High knockback.

Dsmash: 10% Kraid stomps the ground in front of him, sending grounded foes flying upward. Long, disjointed range (1/4 of FD), but only hits grounded opponents. The fixed knockback on this move alows it to be a combo starter, like dtilt. However, the longer range comes with a longer start-up (roughly 25 frames) and punishable endlag. Optional: a secondary input causes kraid to stomp behind him after the first stomp (or alternatively, in the same direction).

*Nair: 8% Similar to DDD's Nair. Kraid exposes his spikes down and in front of him while falling. This move is a sex kick, with the spikes hitboxes disjointed. It also has a landing hitbox (as Kraid slams into the ground when landing). Short landing lag.

*Fair (Not sure about this one. I like its uses, but the dropkick is silly): 30% A drop kick kinda move. LOOOOOONG start-up (60 frames minimum), but high,low-angle knockback, damage and decent range. Even L-canceled, the landing lag is ridiculously long (30 frames), but it's not a move you should throw out in neutral, instead you use it when you land a Dtilt/Dsmash or UpB/SideB: It's your best punish move, but miss it and you'll regret it.

Dair: 24% A downward tail strike. Kraid *slowly and gracefully* spin sideways and swipe his tail downward (think of Mewtwo's down air, but with a tail attack and a fat lizard instead). Long-ish start-up, this move is a meteor with a long vertical range and a long landing lag (though nowhere as long as Fair's). Can be used to edgeguard, or as a combo when the opponent's not damaged enough to be killed by a Fair.

*Bair (I had no idea what to do for this one): 12% Kraid turns around a slash behind him. Like Marth and Lucario, this Bair lets Kraid change the direction he is facing in midair. Fast start-up, low range and knockback. A move with few uses, but turning around in the air is important for Kraid.

*Uair: 14% An upward acid spit. Like Zelda's up air, it's a false projectile. Kraid spit an explosive glob of acid above him, creating a big disjointed hitbox. Medium start-up and knockback.

Grab: Fast, but short range. Grabs by bitting the opponent.
Uthrow: 14% Kraid jumps and falls back down with his opponent under him, kinda like Brawl!Bowser's sideB. A kill throw.
Dthrow: 8% Kraid slams his opponent to the ground in front of him. Knockback similar to Dtilt, combo starter at low percents.
Fthrow and Bthrow: 7% Both are quick get-off-me throws, but also serve as DI mix-ups (like wario's neutralB).

The specials are the same i posted a while ago on the main ridley thread:

*NeutralB: "Spike cannon" 10% per spikes. Kraid starts the match and each stocks with no spikes. (optional Moves that use spikes (Ftilt and Nair) have no disjoint as long as you don't have your spikes loaded) Using neutralB "loads" a set of spikes (roughly 30 frames): once loaded, the spikes act as a passive shield (like link and Tink's shields) during his standing, walking, running jumping, falling and crouching animations, clanking projectiles. Using NeutralB again shoots out the spikes in a cone, with a range roughly half FD. The spikes themselves travel fast and have medium knockback and the startup is about 14 frames. the aerial version fires slightly downward and propels Kraid backward (increasing his recovery if used cleverly).

SideB (for this move, i don't know what would be the best kind of projectile, so it's more of a placeholder than anything): "Acid shot" 2% per tick, up to 30% (with suicidal DI). Kraid spits an acid projectile in front of him. The projectile itself act like a slow moving triggered PK fire, last 3 seconds and hits multiple times. Medium start-up and endlag. This move alows Kraid to control the stage by placing a long lasting, independant hitbox. Only one can be out at a time.

*UpB: "Talon throw" 6% Kraid throws a spinning talon upward. Fast start-up and endlag. The talon slowly travels in an arc, denying the space above Kraid from the opponent. If possible, the arc should go farther/higher with different inputs. The aerial version has Kraid stall his fall, like yoshi's upB/olimar's NeutralB.

*DownB: "uh... Brinstar's giant? Fat power? i dunno" Kraid braces himself and gains substracive armor (same as yoshi's double jump) after 60 frames, which last for 30 frames. Only half the amount of armor is gained in the air (how much armor you get needs to be determined through testing though). If Kraid is hit during any armored part of the animation, it can be canceled into anything. Medium endlag. THis move alows Kraid to bait the opponent and punish them.


Overall, this moveset should make Kraid a character that thrives on spacing out and reading his opponents: unlike characters like bowser, Kraid can manipulate his opponent's options when they approach him, which makes his reads easier to do. He also is somewhat immune to camping, yet he can't really camp himself, due to the overall low range of his projectiles. He is a bait-and-punish character with the tools to actually bait his opponent: against Kraid, is that space in his defenses an actual exploitable opening, or is the Kraid player leaving himself open so he can punish you when you try to run in? as Kraid, How will you condition your opponent to choose an approach over another, so you can hit hm out of it, and hopefully combo into Fair/Dair/NeutralB?

Since this moveset needs a projectile on upB, neutralB and SideB, i assume Ness or Lucas would be good candidates to be replaced by Kraid.
Tell me if anything is unclear, i'll try to elaborate. Of course this is open to suggestion, if you think something would fit the bait-and-punish/wall playstyle more.
It would be better to discuss in a conversation.
im probably going to only talk about k.rool but anyway, i think k rool's weight should be equal to bowser and his fingers look...really freaky
K. Rool is fat and has all of those gold things, so, he should be heavier, but i agree that his fingers look weird.
is there a chance for PM K. Rool or Metal Face to thrive in another Brawl mod?
They can be used here with no changes, but someone can make them fit properly. But that wouldn't be me.
 
Last edited:

MerryShadow

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70
It would be better to discuss in a conversation.

K. Rool is fat and has all of those gold things, so, he should be heavier, but i agree that his fingers look weird.

They can be used here with no changes, but someone can make them fit properly. But that wouldn't be me.
I'll repost it in the conv then.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 24, 2014
Messages
3,641
Location
Croft Manor
Kremlings' grunts certainly will fit and his voice from 64 can be used too, but its still not in Brawl's style. Then again, its not something people liked, so, i can make 2 sound packs.
And i know about those mods, but i don't mind Brawl's sounds.
I think the super sluggers voice would fit alright but I don't think there are enough clips to work

I definitely heard a star ko sound in there
 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
I think the super sluggers voice would fit alright but I don't think there are enough clips to work

I definitely heard a star ko sound in there
That could work too. Characters like Bowser stay silent most of the time.
Any idea when video footage (or more gifs) of Metal Face will ready?
Im pretty much done with new animations for some attacks (jab, Side Smash/Dead Way, Down Smash/Murder Screw, Down B/Killing Claw are done, so, only Side B/Eagle Triple Combo and possibly Final Smash are left). I have one new gif at least:

Side Smash's animation is outdated here. It looks like this now:

And no, combo shown above is not really overpowered.
  1. This requires fully charged Neutral B, which takes a lot of time to charge and charge is lost if he is KOed.
  2. It doesn't works properly above 10% without opponent getting opportunity to jump behind MF while he uses Neutral B. And considering how strong MF's attacks are, this is either 0-death or its nothing special.
  3. Down B is too slow to randomly use it and can hit only grounded opponents.
 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Looks amazing!

But what's the second move he used after the down b and whats the range of the laser?
2nd attack was Side Smash and laser has infinite (well, not really, but its longer than any available stage) horizontal range and its pretty much as tall as MF is in that pose.
 

latinking

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
159
I think the super sluggers voice would fit alright but I don't think there are enough clips to work

I definitely heard a star ko sound in there
Would it be possible for someone to modify the Super Sluggers sound clips, in other words deepen their tone, so that it can sound more similar to DK64 K.Rool?

By the way, I honestly think the scream K.Rool makes in the video below at exactly 19:53 is a much better Star K.O sound.
It's a hilarious shout for the Kremling King! A similar, longer version of this can be heard everytime Tiny Kong leaves his shoe (example, between 11:37 and 11:43). However, if you wish to give him a more serious Star KO shout, I can't think of anything better than what's heard at 19:35.
 
Top Bottom