Attention! You all suck at Brawl.

[HugS]

This will probably be locked in record time, but I just needed to point this out.

No one is good at this game.
Stop saying " wow ____ has an amazing pit". He doesn't.
No more "This guy is showing us how the game should be played". He isn't.

Everyone sucks at brawl. You don't get points for beating a good melee player in brawl. You don't get points for winning only 65% of the matches you play. You suck, I suck, we all suck.

The only skill difference between brawlers now is that certain players just suck a little less.
At least give the game more than 2 weeks post release before you start claiming that you or anyone is good at it.

Thank you.

EDIT: Skyshroud, you are a smart man.
In Skyshroud's words, incase you found me to be too harsh:

Ugh, everyone needs to stop abusing relativity!!!

Ok, to start off, HugS is perfectly correct here. We do suck. It all has to do with the concept of floor and ceiling. Right now we are at the floor of the game. There is a lot of construction to be done until we can work on the ceiling. (For those not following the metaphor, we still have no idea about the depth of this game as it is constantly being discovered.) Now, you can't say, "But if you think like that nobody will ever be a pro!" This statement ignores the ceiling concept, as there is a limit to the amount that can be discovered/learned. The discoveries are going to come in a basic shape, which would be a steep slope that gradually starts to get less steep. Once we see the slope getting less steep, (i.e. we really start to slow down on the discovery of new things) then we can start making judgments about who is "pro" and who isn't. And this curve of learning WILL happen, I can guarantee it. Basically, it has to do with the nature of learning. The more time we spend playing brawl the more we learn, AND THE LESS THERE IS DO DISCOVER. This makes it much more difficult/unlikely to discover new aspects of the game. Things always go like this, which is why companies of online games now frequently add downloadable content/expansions to games. They push the ceiling higher and alter the learning curve again. Basically, we just have to discover stuff and be objective. Nothing is GOOD. Things are only NEW. Sure, we may think that technique x is the greatest in the world, but we do not know it. We just know there is something else out there. This is basically what HugS is saying. You can't jump to conclusions about person x being good because he is nowhere near as good as the ceiling level, which we will eventually get close enough to so the metagame stabilizes. Wait until that happens to make judgements.

Oh, and as far as this thread not being needed, it absolutely is. The people arguing that we suck are (mostly) the ones who understand the concept? What kind of logic is that! HugS directed this because there are people who go around making comments about people being GREAT at Brawl. Don't bother posting in the thread if you already know it makes sense, everybody who is not making ridiculous comments gets that.

Finally, people are getting too stuck on one comment of HugS' post. "We all suck at Brawl." That is not even close to being everything he said. Before you go saying his entire argument is flawed because of one comment, read the entire post.

 

[ChaosKnight]

Good **** Hugs

 

[Thinkaman]

Will be locked? Yes. Should instead be sticked? Heck yes.

 

[B J]

well said, nobody is very "Pro" at this game yet.

 

[Shapechanger]

I move for a sticky.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Lol Hugs.

You've never watched anyone from IGN play have you?

True, though.

 

[memphischains]

no one is even remotely 'good' at this game yet.
everyone needs to cool out

 

[red stone]

no i'm pretty sure i've reached the peak of the meta game. good is subjective to those around you

 

[Zodiac]

This will probably be locked in record time, but I just needed to point this out.

No one is good at this game.
Stop saying " wow ____ has an amazing pit". He doesn't.
No more "This guy is showing us how the game should be played". He isn't.

Everyone sucks at brawl. You don't get points for beating a good melee player in brawl. You don't get points for winning only 65% of the matches you play. You suck, I suck, we all suck.

The only skill difference between brawlers now is that certain players just suck a little less.
At least give the game more than 2 weeks post release before you start claiming that you or anyone is good at it.

Thank you.

Thank god a respected player finally said that. props HuGs

 

[Pi]

What's it been, a week and some change? Yea...everyone sucks.

 

[datman6699]

haha. probably one of the smartest posts ever. i agree with getting this stickied

 

[Phlemingo]

What the hell? Why would you get mad over something this stupid?

 

[HugS]

What the hell? Why would you get mad over something this stupid?

Wow, calm down. You're the only mad person on this thread at this moment.

I'm just trying to instill some sense into certain beginning players.

 

[S2]

Good to see a skilled Melee player saying that.

My friend played Brawl for a few hours and basically went away saying "Its great, were all back at equally sucking again".

I'm looking forward to diving into a fresh Smash experience. If newbs want to win tournaments, then this is the time to get good. Because people don't have a several year headstart in tech skill and mindgames.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

I disagree.

Some of the things I'm seeing in these Brawl gameplay videos are insane. I would never get anywhere near that fast in Melee.

 

[blayde_axel]

*stuff*

Agreed...

But sometimes I wonder if this is really just a game or not... seems like serious business.

 

[Myztek]

HugS, I disagree with you.

Also, I refuse to provide a supportive argument for saying so.

 

[SeriousWB]

But I AM an amazing Pit...

*tears*

 

[Phlemingo]

Wow, calm down. You're the only mad person on this thread at this moment.

I'm just trying to instill some sense into certain beginning players.

Beginning players should be able to think whatever they want. Why are you upset about that?

 

[Hydde]

This will probably be locked in record time, but I just needed to point this out.

No one is good at this game.
Stop saying " wow ____ has an amazing pit". He doesn't.
No more "This guy is showing us how the game should be played". He isn't.

Everyone sucks at brawl. You don't get points for beating a good melee player in brawl. You don't get points for winning only 65% of the matches you play. You suck, I suck, we all suck.

The only skill difference between brawlers now is that certain players just suck a little less.
At least give the game more than 2 weeks post release before you start claiming that you or anyone is good at it.

Thank you.

well thats kind of obvious...
I think when people says someone is playing cool... is taking in consideration the amount of time the game has been out.

No one for sure can certainly be "truly good" or "dominant" right now.

Knowing the game as a whole takes time.

 

[HugS]

Beginning players should be able to think whatever they want. Why are you upset about that?

Obviously anyone is allowed to think whatever they'd like. But the "right" thing is always preferable.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

Things were probably the same for Melee, too. People ARE good, until proven others. A week after Melee was out people were probably already calling certain people 'the best player out there!' and what not. By your standards no one can ever be good because there isn't a certain point in a game where you suddenly have become unable to get better. And without that point, no one can measure how good you are off of it.
What do we do instead? Measure our skill compared to others. I can be a beast when compared to a new Melee player, but suck compared to Ken. Skill in video games are based off of how we fair against others.

It's true that there may be levels in a game implying you are a 'legend if you beat this mode', but note that this would never work in Smash Bros. because of Adv. T's that weren't known of when the modes were created. Even all techniques were known by the game developers, there could be hundreds of legends. How do we tell who's better (let's say their records were the same), they fight and compare each other afterwards.

Remember, nobody's perfect, so we measure off of each other to know our own status.

 

[Kr3w]

False.
So you're saying that everyone sucks right now compared to how good they will be later on?
Well for RIGHT NOW they are good, because they can't be compared to the future skills of players. Because We just don't know how good people are going to be in the future, unless of course you have a time machine.

 

[Necrochild313]

False.
So you're saying that everyone sucks right now compared to how good they will be later on?
Well for RIGHT NOW they are good, because they can't be compared to the future skills of players. Because We just don't know how good people are going to be in the future, unless of course you have a time machine.

Generally people who just start playing a game are way better than they are after they've gotten more experience with a game, right? Wrong?

 

[pirkid]

There's no rung on the skill ladder that you have to reach in order to become good. Skill measure is looked at in relation to others, and that fact is obvious everywhere.

During recent times, Melee mostly:
Posts are made ridiculing people that make threads exclaiming that they are a pro because they own their whole region. (E.G. Buttfist makes a thread saysing he is a pro because he can own anyone in Halifax). Then most of you flame him, telling him to go ot a tourney and face real compitition, telling him he sucks compared to others.

Compared to others. That's how we define "Pro" or "Expert", "N00b" or "Newb".
(So now Buttfist goes to a nearby tournament in Ottawa and gets ***** by Anafinger. He's not 'good' anymore, right?)

If that last statement is true, that means your whole argument about "YOU ALL SUCKs" is flawed.

Now Brawl:
Someone like Anafinger, who just got Brawl, may **** Buttfist, who got it as well, and therefore Ana is a pro, considering our definition.

But, according to the OP, Ana still sucks.

Sucks against who? What if she can own anyone, but still doesn't know about half the techs we havne't found yet? Does she suck?


Awaiting your flaming response.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

Wow, calm down. You're the only mad person on this thread at this moment.

I'm just trying to instill some sense into certain beginning players.

He wasn't mad in that post, he just thought you made no sense.

And btw HugS I DO see your point, about how someone can't be amazing so soon. It IS actually possible, but people say "That Pit is amazing!" because based on what they know and have seen of other Pits and their knowledge of good ways to play. This reinforces my point. Just like we say "Neo's Roy owns!" or "Gimpy will put hurt on you!", we say that because they DO own and the DO put hurt on you (lol) compared to many others. For all we know there could be a whole new and undiscovered metagame in melee for many players, but they fact it's unlikely reinforces your point. But hey, you never know. It took more than a year to discover all of the Adv. T's and develop metagame based off of them.

 

[AustiniusRex]

Theres no need for this thread. Those who don't see this obvious truth, are probably better off being left ignorant.

 

[Micahc]

Nu uh! I'm a freaking best!

Spoiler

Well, I would be if I owned the game. The game hasn't been out long enough to define bad play, so I'm just gonna call everyone good!

 

[HugS]

False.
So you're saying that everyone sucks right now compared to how good they will be later on?
Well for RIGHT NOW they are good, because they can't be compared to the future skills of players. Because We just don't know how good people are going to be in the future, unless of course you have a time machine.

Would it be too much of a stretch to say that I can actually see the potential in skill in regards to this game and that no one has even begun to come close to it yet?
Would it be so wrong to assume that this game, like it's predecessors, will possibly head in the same general direction of advanced meta-play regarding spacing, timing, move selection, etc.?

Knowing how that type of meta game works, would it be silly to think that you may know exactly how much people suck at this game without actually being good yourself and without experiencing a meta-game 5 years in its existence?

There's no rung on the skill ladder that you have to reach in order to become good. Skill measure is looked at in relation to others, and that fact is obvious everywhere.

During recent times, Melee mostly:
Posts are made ridiculing people that make threads exclaiming that they are a pro because they own their whole region. (E.G. Buttfist makes a thread saysing he is a pro because he can own anyone in Halifax). Then most of you flame him, telling him to go ot a tourney and face real compitition, telling him he sucks compared to others.

Compared to others. That's how we define "Pro" or "Expert", "N00b" or "Newb".
(So now Buttfist goes to a nearby tournament in Ottawa and gets ***** by Anafinger. He's not 'good' anymore, right?)

If that last statement is true, that means your whole argument about "YOU ALL SUCKs" is flawed.

Now Brawl:
Someone like Anafinger, who just got Brawl, may **** Buttfist, who got it as well, and therefore Ana is a pro, considering our definition.

But, according to the OP, Ana still sucks.

Sucks against who? What if she can own anyone, but still doesn't know about half the techs we havne't found yet? Does she suck?


Awaiting your flaming response.

The word "Pro" is not thrown around as simply as you make it out to be. Not by "smash educated" players at least. It has far less to do with "Guy X beats guy Y" than you think.
However, a topic as deep as this belongs in another thread, or a book, or something epic.

My answer to you is the same as my response to the other gentlemen.

 

[MK-Ultra]

You are a smash elitist. Fu'real.

 

[Phaazoid]

wow, i suck at brawl? i'm better than i thought, for not having played yet...

 

[Cobalt]

I believe you may be overreacting slightly, Hugs. I'm sure the vast majority of people realize that players' skill right now won't hold a candle to players' skill even six months from now, let alone years. When people say someone is "good" or "amazing," they generally do it with the knowledge that that level won't be considered as such given some time.

Currently, however, calling someone "good" (with the implication that this is in relation to current players), can be perfectly correct.

Or I could just have too much faith in humanity, who knows?

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

Generally people who just start playing a game are way better than they are after they've gotten more experience with a game, right? Wrong?

You missed his entire point. We have no idea how good people will be able to get with Brawl, so saying that everyone sucks is completetly inaccurate. In the future some of the better players right now may be considered 'moderate' compared to themselves in the future, not OMGZSUXBALLZ.

There's no rung on the skill ladder that you have to reach in order to become good. Skill measure is looked at in relation to others, and that fact is obvious everywhere.

During recent times, Melee mostly:
Posts are made ridiculing people that make threads exclaiming that they are a pro because they own their whole region. (E.G. Buttfist makes a thread saysing he is a pro because he can own anyone in Halifax). Then most of you flame him, telling him to go ot a tourney and face real compitition, telling him he sucks compared to others.

Compared to others. That's how we define "Pro" or "Expert", "N00b" or "Newb".
(So now Buttfist goes to a nearby tournament in Ottawa and gets ***** by Anafinger. He's not 'good' anymore, right?)

If that last statement is true, that means your whole argument about "YOU ALL SUCKs" is flawed.

Now Brawl:
Someone like Anafinger, who just got Brawl, may **** Buttfist, who got it as well, and therefore Ana is a pro, considering our definition.

But, according to the OP, Ana still sucks.

Sucks against who? What if she can own anyone, but still doesn't know about half the techs we havne't found yet? Does she suck?

Yup yup thanks for that, even more than I said in my post.
Notice the end of it deleted...

The last part you said though about Ana might not mean she sucks, but also isn't a pro by comparison standard. She may own all right now, but in your example you say that she may only know half of the techniques (just for the example though i know you're not assuming), so if that's true she's clearly not pro. How so? She doesn't know half of the techniques and knows that she can only do half.
just something I felt like pointing out.
If you know how you good you can get (generally) but aren't that good, you aren't the best player. That's not the situation because we don't all of the techs though, obvioiusly.

Get it?

 

[Andromeda]

Still, nothing has kept you from being nice.

 

[ph00tbag]

I think you guys all need to note that HugS has never said he's good at Brawl. I think he'd be the first to tell you he sucks, too (HugS will indubitably contradict this in irony).

Now, as to whether or not there are authorities on certain characters or not, I'd say there are certain people with better ideas than others, and I think if we want to get better, we should still pay attention to what they're doing. But with everyone's suckitude in mind. Pay attention to others with a critical mind, and try to figure out what they could be doing better.

 

[pirkid]

Would it be too much of a stretch to say that I can actually see the potential in skill in regards to this game and that no one has even begun to come close to it yet?
Would it be so wrong to assume that this game, like it's predecessors, will possibly head in the same general direction of advanced meta-play regarding spacing, timing, move selection, etc.?

Knowing how that type of meta game works, would it be silly to think that you may know exactly how much people suck at this game without actually being good yourself and without experiencing a meta-game 5 years in its existence?




The word "Pro" is not thrown around as simply as you make it out to be. Not by "smash educated" players at least. It has far less to do with "Guy X beats guy Y" than you think.
However, a topic as deep as this belongs in another thread, or a book, or something epic.

My answer to you is the same as my response to the other gentlemen.

As long as we're clear that your not berating us on the thought on "knowing" what the metagame is. You don't, most probably. You can predict anything you want, however, I can't stop you.

While it may be true that we will look upon ourselves in 3 years and claim how bad we were at Brawl.
("LOL who uses Fox? We were idiots")

Alas, you are entitled to your opinion and I can't stop you. Just bear in mind that most of us consider the current players pro simply because we suck in comparison, we've haven't evene played yet.


@Untamed, I was taking an outsider's point of view. We don't know enough about Brawl to make petty comments like this, simple.

 

[Lynkx]

The only way people can be "good" is to keep improving on their personal records

 

[Norm]

That is ture it will be a while before anyone is good at brawl.

 

[behemoth]

actually, HugS did say he sucked in his post.

and he's right. No one, NO ONE, has unlocked anything near the full potential of the game. Hell, we just got past all the "man, Brawl will never be deep enough for competition" threads.

Many people may be pioneers in shaping the foundations of the future metagame, but they still suck.

Simply because they haven't unlocked the full potential, there is simply not enough known about the game.

Flame on.

 

[Kr3w]

Would it be too much of a stretch to say that I can actually see the potential in skill in regards to this game and that no one has even begun to come close to it yet?
Would it be so wrong to assume that this game, like it's predecessors, will possibly head in the same general direction of advanced meta-play regarding spacing, timing, move selection, etc.?

Knowing how that type of meta game works, would it be silly to think that you may know exactly how much people suck at this game without actually being good yourself and without experiencing a meta-game 5 years in its existence?




The word "Pro" is not thrown around as simply as you make it out to be. Not by "smash educated" players at least. It has far less to do with "Guy X beats guy Y" than you think.
However, a topic as deep as this belongs in another thread, or a book, or something epic.

My answer to you is the same as my response to the other gentlemen.

I understand what you mean, but you just said it in the wrong way. Instead of saying "Everyone sucks at brawl right now....", the more accurate thing to say would be, "Everyone will be X times better than they are right now, in the future"