AT & Metagame Effects Discussion (formerly... 'something new with side b')

[Syde7]

So, after some stuff being posted here that was "new-ish" in addition to what I had posted, and at the behest of Sudai... this is now an official "AT & Metagame Effects Discussion". Basically... anything new or nifty can be posted here. If there is a general buzz around it, and it seems to have applications it MAY get its own discussion thread, maybe... possibly... whatev. So... get to SEARCHIN'!
______________________________________________________________________________________________


So, I was just fuggzin around with some schtuff, inspired by all this new ROB activity and the general buzz. I soon lost interest in discovering anything, and then started watching some Brawl+ videos bc JC makes it so tempting =P. During watching it, I saw (again) the nifty >B ROB has in B+, and recalled JC mentioning something before in passing about how it was an odd mechanic in the codeset that made it do that.

I know for a fact that I don't know what the exact physics/mechanics of Brawl+ entails, but I thought that if there was some semblance of vBrawl's original physics in it, that maybe, somehow, someway, I could replicate the nifty horizontal boost of over B.

And I succeeded.

Partially.

I managed to get the >B to slide along the ground for a reasonable distance- one time a little over the length of the FD middle diamond, the other from the middle of the diamond to the middle-ish of the rightmost stripe.

I did it on accident at first, and shrugged it off as a wavebounce on accident. But, I did it a few more times when trying to replicate it, and noticed that it wasn't anything like any of the wavebounced >B's I normally get. Most notably, I didn't get a backward boost (iirc, i'll look at the vid again to make super sure). I did it in the air, and as soon as I hit the ground I shot forward at a speed comparable to the boost of the >B in in B+, and it was also longer than the same slide you get with a normal >B.

I have a standard control scheme, with tap jump off. (Y is set to specials, but I didn't use the Y button in this at all). A quick vid will come shortly.

Even though I was able to replicate it, I still don't know exactly what I did. I think it was something along the lines of "jump forward-->return stick to neutral position-->tap forward-->back-->forward+B". if anyone wants to double check it for me, try that. If it doesn't work, try to move the control stick as many times as possible during a SH & before an over B & before you touch the ground.

If this is known about, I sincerely apologize. But, even if it is, maybe we can find SOME sort of usefulness from it.

Vid to come shortly:

 

[Ishoku]

oh yeah that xD

i think i remember reading this somewhere in that mass accumulation of random rob facts (OS thread lol)

you just have to press sideB midair at a certain point so that when you land, you slide.

its the height of when you sideB and you just slide forward while sideBing xD


i dont know if you can find some application for it other than a nice surprise?

good luck tho xD

 

[Landry]

Looking forward to seeing the video.

 

[Syde7]

oh yeah that xD

i think i remember reading this somewhere in that mass accumulation of random rob facts (OS thread lol)

you just have to press sideB midair at a certain point so that when you land, you slide.

its the height of when you sideB and you just slide forward while sideBing xD


i dont know if you can find some application for it other than a nice surprise?

good luck tho xD

I knew that I had seen it somewhere myself, but its just been so long, I couldnt remember if I ACTUALLY did, or if it was my imagination. Either way, I'll still post a vid to see if its the same thing. ^_^

 

[JCaesar]

Eh it still suffers from the problem of being shieldgrabbable right out of the middle of the move, because it's vBrawl and there's no shieldstun.

 

[Syde7]

Eh it still suffers from the problem of being shieldgrabbable right out of the middle of the move, because it's vBrawl and there's no shieldstun.

LoL, JC is persistant. =P

At any rate, I was thinking of using it more as a retreat than an offensive maneuver, especially against slower characters. Say for some reason they have predicted where you are going to land. Instead of hoping your grab buffered out of an airdodge/shield/whatever works, you have one more option to move yourself away from them, even if both of your jumps have been used. If you do it from a certain distance (outside of their attack range), you can retreat safely to a new position, and the sheer "eh?" aspect of it will work 1-2 times i'm failry sure.

 

[Deadweight]

Could be a Neat retreat vs Falco Lasers ;o

 

[T0MMY]

Hang around AiB more, this kind of stuff was covered a while back: http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=15364

I a lot of techniques indexed in my group (not the forums). Again, it's a bit of a mess, but I'm cleaning it up (AiB doesn't like my browser, so it ruined the format).

 

[Syde7]

Hang around AiB more, this kind of stuff was covered a while back: http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=15364

I a lot of techniques indexed in my group (not the forums). Again, it's a bit of a mess, but I'm cleaning it up (AiB doesn't like my browser, so it ruined the format).

It was covered here too, it was just hidden underneath a bunch of old stuff, and silly me forgot to set the forum options so I can view all threads as opposed to "x" percent.

Whether its new or old is irrelevant. The relevant part is that a majority of people either don't know about it, or totally overlooked/overlook it. If noting else this new posts brings it back into top of mind awareness, and we can more aptly assess its (possible) effectiveness.

Also, Vegas and WMM is beinga silly goose and not wanting to work (bc WMM sucks, and my vegas is "questionably obtained"), but a vid will be coming at some point.

 

[professor mgw]

it depends on da distance n timing you have when your close enough to the board. i use it more as a reflector anyway.

 

[Ishoku]

hey razor, if you wanna try new things out i can also point you in the direction im going.

gyro footstool dair

prolly the most applicable way is to do this OoS.
kinda like what DK does when he footstools OoS, sideB's and then does some random kill move.
but its more like, links bomb throw ------> footstool, nair ---> jab lock

and it works, it IS an automatic combo if you do this in quick succession as ur dair will cancel the footstool length and leave them on the floor.
i just wish rob's dair ddnt take so long to end, as that would have lead to an easy dtilt lock.
but what it can do is lead to a possible techchase/reading game.

(also its quite funny when you do this on another rob as it exploits his own weird falling animation)

dunno i guess im just letting this out there for you (known or not)
its decent too as you can footstool when someone is shielding. (at least im sure n that sorta)

so try combining it with a glidetoss approach? i dunno.


another direction in which you may want to experiment into is, remember that aerial thingy that was so impossible to do that cancels the lag of your first aerial? like a snake could do double dairs pretty fast as long as the first dair ended the right as you landed, and you just did another jump and dair?
it was somehere here before.

the thing is, rob's is actually pretty easy

if you do a jumping nair (be sure to nair right as you jump)
and then buffer a bair, the bair ends as you hit the floor, so you can do another jumping nair
its a complete and smooth cycle and its endless.

now, since that gives you a timing on how to do it, maybe one can explore more into that and maybe mix it up a little more? or find other applications for it? like, throw in some other applications or find ways of using it for mindgames?

right now, im just using that timing to see the height of which i must bair in order for it to cancel into something else, ive done a nair, bair, bair before all in quick succession.
but im sure u can make rob fly through the air with multiple aerials if u get the timing down

just some random things if you did not already know, that you could explore into...
maybe you will find something?

then again, im just a scrub :\

 

[Ishoku]

btw, the gyro footstool dair only works if the person is at a high enough percent to be knocked up by the gyro anyway (to get that footstool animation)

so just throw ur gyro down OoS while jumping towards the opponent and then use the upward knockback hit of the gyro hitting him to footstool that into a quick buffered dair.

if it doesnt make him pop up a little, you will be only doing a footstool while he is on the ground and dairing

also, im sad to say that you can not just do the gyro to footstool (as it WILL leave them on the ground) but you will jump too high to do anything unless u put in a momentum canceling move. (such as dair/bair)
(but i would rather save bair for a possible kill move later anyway)

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

another direction in which you may want to experiment into is, remember that aerial thingy that was so impossible to do that cancels the lag of your first aerial? like a snake could do double dairs pretty fast as long as the first dair ended the right as you landed, and you just did another jump and dair?
it was somehere here before.

the thing is, rob's is actually pretty easy

if you do a jumping nair (be sure to nair right as you jump)
and then buffer a bair, the bair ends as you hit the floor, so you can do another jumping nair
its a complete and smooth cycle and its endless.

now, since that gives you a timing on how to do it, maybe one can explore more into that and maybe mix it up a little more? or find other applications for it? like, throw in some other applications or find ways of using it for mindgames?

right now, im just using that timing to see the height of which i must bair in order for it to cancel into something else, ive done a nair, bair, bair before all in quick succession.
but im sure u can make rob fly through the air with multiple aerials if u get the timing down

just some random things if you did not already know, that you could explore into...
maybe you will find something?

then again, im just a scrub :\

I was actually planning on messing around with that soon as well. It seems like it could have some potential, and if what you are saying is correct, a bair nair cycle could prove to be an effective defensive/offensive maneuver. (But then again, thats if it works the smae way Im imagining it to work)

 

[Ishoku]

well, maybe for a while, im sure people can still punish you after they know what you will do.

but it works xD test it

 

[ipitydatfu]

oh ishoku, that sure sounds sexy. full jump the nair?

 

[Ishoku]

yes xD,

full jump nair, buffer bair, buffer full jump nair again.

i like to use my X and A buttons for this (easier)

and just call me FEAR, this is a really really old account :\

 

[Sudai]

I don't actually care about Brawl, but it's still fun to theory craft, sooo.

Using this, if you figured out the timing, you could probably mix this up between FH NAir > BAir and SH > BAir. This could create a really solid flame wall with the biggest hole being between the NAirs and BAirs..which is why I'm thinking mixing it up with the SH BAir would be a good thing to learn. If you get good enough, you could probably cancel your SH on the way up with the BAir and cancel it like that to reduce the vulnerable time even more.

 

[Ishoku]

"I don't actually care about Brawl, but it's still fun to theory craft, sooo."

this makes me die a little inside :[




and oh yeah, FH nair ---> bair----> SH bair is pretty easy to do xD
a flame wall? hmm.

 

[ipitydatfu]

lmao. this is starting to sound like something MK would do >_>. good for us!

 

[Ishoku]

the thing is, sudai is right,
there is a pretty big hole they can punch through due to the slow start up of nair and bair :\

most it can do this way is make for a surprise encounter

after that all they have to do is wait and punish :\

but then i guess thats where the mindgames come in
*shrug*

 

[ipitydatfu]

10 seconds of this ring of fire will just confuse your opponents. lol

 

[Ishoku]

lol, well... it is rather fun xD

 

[Sudai]

The best part is, you can do it when they're not in range to punish it to force them to approach a certain way. That's where the real mind games come into play.

 

[Syde7]

are you talking about FJ the 2nd N-air; as in

FJ-->N-air-->B-air-->dj-->N-air

or

are you talking about actually landing, and then SHing out of the landing; as in

FJ-->N-air-->B-air-->land-->SH-->aerial

 

[Sudai]

If you were talking to me (as it's unclear), I assume that since you can instantly FH again, you could substitute the FH with a SH. I'm not well versed on this particular AT though so I might be wrong. Hell, it might even just be ISJR, but that would negate the whole thing so I'm assuming/hoping it's not. XD

 

[Ishoku]

hmm, i think it is the ISJR (?)

why would it negate the whole thing O_o

and yeah u can sub the FH to a SH.




...actually now that i think about it, i dont know.
because ive always baired, so maybe its only a FH (since bair would cancel that momentum anyway)

 

[Sudai]

ISJR never touches ground. It's just an endless loop of double jumps. That means no SH on it. Might still be able to do it if BAir's properties work the right way though. Just have to be fast.

 

[Ishoku]

yeah, i think you can do it still with bairs at least

 

[Sudai]

Yeah. All that it being the ISJR instead of actually landing changes is that you can't mix-up the timing on your BAir if you want to keep this going. You have to basically be perfect with it on the rise..or just wait to do it until you land.

 

[Ishoku]

ah well, it leads to some ramifications at least

i tried T__T

 

[Sudai]

Nono. We got some discussion going and some new things to look into it's all good. : )

 

[Ishoku]

^_^

well at any rate, at least we know that ROB has one of the easiest ISJR's now

 

[Ishoku]

on a totally different topic

glide toss---->boosted dair spike(upB +dair) is smexy <3

 

[Sudai]

Hmm..someone should probably make an AT/Cool things discovery post (or better yet turn this into one) in which we discuss things that could be beneficial to ROB's metagame. Then if something looks like it's fleshing out to something nice we can give it an individual thread.

That would make Sudai happy.

 

[Syde7]

Well, you can use up+B (I assume with tapjump off) on your second ascent (the fj) and it will keep you about a SH height so you can end in a rising F-air. What's more, you still have your second jump left after it, so theoretically... you could do that and still continue the cycle.

Edit: since I started this thread; I can easily rename it and throw in an introduction thingy & go from there- but only if that would make Sudai happy =P.

 

[FEARedound]

if something looks like it's fleshing out to something nice we can give it an individual thread.

That would make Sudai happy.

i guess that answers your question xD

im also leaning towards renaming this too, since alot of stuff ive written is here anyway.

(on another note, yes! finally got off my lazy butt and made a new account)

 

[Sudai]

Sudai is pleased.

 

[FEARedound]

O_O...... *backs away slowly*



also this would be a good place to discuss
the weak glide toss
the glide drop
the UFSS (ultra fabulous supermodel shuffle lawl -__-)




i would put input, but as stingers has said, its kinda hard to do O_O
that or im just not enthusiastic enough to learn these, the "dreidel dash" seems interesting tho.

maybe i will eventually.

maybe.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

O_O...... *backs away slowly*



also this would be a good place to discuss
the weak glide toss
the glide drop
the UFSS (ultra fabulous supermodel shuffle lawl -__-)




i would put input, but as stingers has said, its kinda hard to do O_O
that or im just not enthusiastic enough to learn these, the "dreidel dash" seems interesting tho.

maybe i will eventually.

maybe.

Dreidel dash sounds cooler than the SS ( I refuse to play along with the ultra-fabulous crap)

 

[T0MMY]

It was covered here too, it was just hidden underneath a bunch of old stuff, and silly me forgot to set the forum options so I can view all threads as opposed to "x" percent.

Whether its new or old is irrelevant. The relevant part is that a majority of people either don't know about it, or totally overlooked/overlook it. If noting else this new posts brings it back into top of mind awareness, and we can more aptly assess its (possible) effectiveness.

Also, Vegas and WMM is beinga silly goose and not wanting to work (bc WMM sucks, and my vegas is "questionably obtained"), but a vid will be coming at some point.

My point wasn't that it was old. My point was that there's information I'm posting on AiB that eventually gets posted by someone here. My suggestion is to look over there every once in a while.

This also brings me to the topic of Gyro > Footstool. I was using this as a way to create a "Surfing" technique. You actually Footstool out of a Z-Drop and ride on your opponent a short distance. I wanted to find a way to get them to slide really far, so it's kind of like taunting them while you're comboing them.