Ask Ice Climber Players About Ice Climbers Thread

[Kyu Puff]

What is recently? Chu is amazing for his lack of practice, but he's definitely not in his prime any more.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

really everyone needed to came up with an anti marth stra. not an anti ice climber plan. ok how about we try and play on his bad moves for on stage,like up-smash and dair and down-smash and maybe with that we could do more to him like getting him into the air and up air him. marth is really lacking bad moves isn't he

 

[choknater]

u kinda just have to figure out how to penetrate him. once he's grabbed it's really open season since its really easy to edge guard him.

he can combo and KO nana really easily, but then again so can any character

main moves to watch for: marths nair, jab, dtilt, grab (marths grab is good at separating them, and easy to get u with if u waveshield a lot)

u kinda have to just be patient and wd back and forth a lot, mixed with dash dances and blizzards every now and then (both desynched and synched blizzards are good)

just dont be too scared cuz sometimes an unexpected wd dsmash of fsmash can really **** marth (he will die at like 60 if he doesnt see it coming... and wd dsmashes are hard to see coming they are also hard to see ******* )

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

don't forget fair. you know if we could just get a dash attack we would be all right same for a grab

 

[Vts]

We need more IC winning tournament people don't fear us anymore!

i plan on changing that at my local tournaments and oos tournaments who's with me!

 

[Jam Stunna]

I came in 13th yesterday at a tournament. Does that count? Although once BlazBlue comes out this summer, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be with you.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Although once BlazBlue comes out this summer, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be with you.

Don't talk like that.

13th at mass madness... But my ICs are rusty now b/c I've desperately been searching for a secondary.

 

[Binx]

I'm not trying to say its impossible to beat Marth, I'm just saying its impossible to beat a Marth thats your skill level and technical enough to reverse double far and combo, all he needs to do out of a grab is kill nana, then he can play way more risky cause with good DI the best you can get is 2 hit combos for ~15-20% and obviously smashes if you can sneak them in. My problem is in the Marth match up is that if they get into good spacing from anywhere on the stage and surprise you with a dash grab they can basically kill Nana, you can't safely do any moves, Marth basically just has to wait to see some sort of movement and short hop fair then pressure you until you die. This is easily my most practiced match up with Ice Climbers, I've never had as much trouble vs a Peach(not that I win that match up a ton, but I don't get 3 stocked as often).

I dunno, Wobbles do you have more trouble with top level Peach/Samus or Marth?

 

[Wobbles]

Well... Peach has always been a huge barrier for me (disproportionate number of losses in tournaments are to Peach players), but I've played her so much now that I feel like I've got a really good grasp on fighting her. I came really close to taking down Xelic, I solidly beat Light (the AZ Peach whom I'd never before defeated with my ICs in tournament), the only match I took off Cort at SCC was with my ICs, against Vidjo at a big Georgia Melee tourney I was running circles around him in crews (and then killed myself twice, lol)... I think this matchup has an insanely steep learning curve, and I get lots and lots of varied practice from different Peaches. Nowadays I almost *welcome* the ICs Peach matchup.

Samus... ? This one is so hard to call for me. I have almost the exact same results against every Samus I play against. That is, I win but just barely. I've beaten HugS (2 stocked him twice, wobbling on) and it felt like I had a lot of control. I can beat Taj's Samus (utterly unknown and incredibly vicious, like most of his other characters) by a tiny margin, but then when I play random Samus players it's absurdly tough. Bomb spam is hard to get around for me, you have to work really hard just to keep Nana safe when Samus does nothing but hit forward+b repeatedly, and then you have to deal with low lag moves. Fortunately, you've got the LCG and infinite at your disposal and you can punish d-tilt, d-smash, and f-smash from shield with grab! You can also b-air from shield to punish f-tilt (so good!) which was a HUGE barrier for me. I think it's manageable, but there are so few Samus players...

Then Marth... blech. Here's the way I see it: as Marth gets better, the matchup gets harder, and it scales like a *****. With Peach, even as the Peach gets better the matchup pretty much stays the same, the timings just get a little bit tighter and you have to think a bit more; this may be because Peach players don't need to advance their metagame vs. ICs, lol. Marth scales much more cruelly, I think.

I may be speaking purely from the experience I get, but I have more trouble with Fox, Falco and Marth than I do from Peach and Samus. Falcon's a rough customer too but if I get warmed up to him I feel he's very manageable.

Argh. It's really hard for me to write about this stuff because a lot of my game consists of waiting for one big punish every stock. As far as I'm concerned, it's like I'm playing 1/3 of Survivor: Instead of outwitting or outplaying, I'm outlasting, lol.

Uhh... well, I'll actually try and be helpful though. I'll make a thread; I should be studying for a midterm, but Women's Studies 101 can wait. Smash is far more important.

 

[Binx]

What are you studying to be Wobbles? oh and hows the combo vid coming?

I feel the same way about those match ups, its all just waiting for a mistake and punishing, only I mess up during some punishes so I have to do it twice or sometimes three times a stock instead of once.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'm not trying to say its impossible to beat Marth, I'm just saying its impossible to beat a Marth thats your skill level and technical enough to reverse double far and combo, all he needs to do out of a grab is kill nana, then he can play way more risky cause with good DI the best you can get is 2 hit combos for ~15-20% and obviously smashes if you can sneak them in. My problem is in the Marth match up is that if they get into good spacing from anywhere on the stage and surprise you with a dash grab they can basically kill Nana, you can't safely do any moves, Marth basically just has to wait to see some sort of movement and short hop fair then pressure you until you die. This is easily my most practiced match up with Ice Climbers, I've never had as much trouble vs a Peach(not that I win that match up a ton, but I don't get 3 stocked as often).

Any Marth can reverse shdf and combo, and I can assure you that it does not win them the game at all. Before you were saying he could camp and eventually force you back into an unfavorable position; if he continually abuses retreating f-air, he's simply giving you an opening to pressure back.

Marth really can't do that much out of a grab; you can easily DI his f-throw and that leaves him with the potential option of quickly f-throw f-smashing Nana, but I haven't actually seen any Marth player do that. D-throw and u-throw are his only other options, and neither guarantees him a kill on nana or a significant amount of damage.

I've posted grab combos on Marth too many times and I'm not going to bother again. You CAN abuse any correct DI for hefty damage. Obviously you aren't guaranteed a kill outside of wobbling/LCG, but your grab punishment >>> his.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic about match-ups. Typically I see them as much closer than other IC mains do, and I can't say I've had a terrible time against Peach players (aside from Cort... I don't know how Wobbles did it), but we all have different experiences and results in each match-up.

 

[pockyD]

Marth really can't do that much out of a grab; you can easily DI his f-throw and that leaves him with the potential option of quickly f-throw f-smashing Nana, but I haven't actually seen any Marth player do that.

have you ever played any marths?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kyu Puff why are you so fun to play against :D

 

[Hobs]

I have a story...
I was facing cpu falco on floats, and I accidentally froze him on the left side of squirtle. When squirtle moved down, falco stayed in the middle, which I expected. When chikorita came though, falco was pushed all the way to the far top right. I found that if I hit him he wouldn't go as far. There he stayed until an unknown pushed him off the stage and he lost his stock. However, he didn't come back! The percent sign was gone and I had to sd 4 times for the match to end.
Happened to anyone else?

 

[S.D]

You probably accidentally used the freeze glitch.

Ps: Peach is hardest. Samus is tough, and while I don't often feel in control against Samus I usually just scrape home somehow, I'm sure this is a familiar feeling for many Ic's out there. Marth can make you feel helpless if he plays a sensible, controlled and BORING game XD

 

[Binx]

Any Marth can reverse shdf and combo, and I can assure you that it does not win them the game at all. Before you were saying he could camp and eventually force you back into an unfavorable position; if he continually abuses retreating f-air, he's simply giving you an opening to pressure back.

Marth really can't do that much out of a grab; you can easily DI his f-throw and that leaves him with the potential option of quickly f-throw f-smashing Nana, but I haven't actually seen any Marth player do that. D-throw and u-throw are his only other options, and neither guarantees him a kill on nana or a significant amount of damage.

I've posted grab combos on Marth too many times and I'm not going to bother again. You CAN abuse any correct DI for hefty damage. Obviously you aren't guaranteed a kill outside of wobbling/LCG, but your grab punishment >>> his.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic about match-ups. Typically I see them as much closer than other IC mains do, and I can't say I've had a terrible time against Peach players (aside from Cort... I don't know how Wobbles did it), but we all have different experiences and results in each match-up.

My Marth uses good fairs, well spaced dtilts, amazingly spaced utilts if I'm ever above him and he make really good decisions with his grabs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhZplkSo-YY - around 1 min see what happens after a forward throw. Also notice how the match goes once nana is gone. And the edgeguarding. M2K even made a lot of punishable mistakes in this match and he still won pretty handily.

Marth simply has too much range for us, hes not unbeatable especially if you are really good at punishment, but no I don;t think our punishes off a grab are better than his, at semi low percents fthrow fsmash nana is only punishable with a small percent from us because Marth can wiggle out so easily before 40%.

 

[Kyu Puff]

My Marth uses good fairs, well spaced dtilts, amazingly spaced utilts if I'm ever above him and he make really good decisions with his grabs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhZplkSo-YY - around 1 min see what happens after a forward throw. Also notice how the match goes once nana is gone. And the edgeguarding. M2K even made a lot of punishable mistakes in this match and he still won pretty handily.

Marth simply has too much range for us, hes not unbeatable especially if you are really good at punishment, but no I don;t think our punishes off a grab are better than his, at semi low percents fthrow fsmash nana is only punishable with a small percent from us because Marth can wiggle out so easily before 40%.

Every Marth I've played knows to abuse f-air and d-tilt vs. ICs, but that conditions me better for the match-up. You should adapt and have more spacing tricks in the match-up than any Marth player whom you don't regularly play.

I'm not sure where you were going with that match. Around 1:00, m2k grabs Chu -- who DIs out of f-smash range but misses the tech -- and follows it with a falling f-air (15% total) and then a weak f-smash on Nana (who was too close for anything else). A bit earlier he f-throws Chu and whiffs a f-smash, Chu grabs the ledge and tries to side+B over m2k into a tipper. I wouldn't by any means call that a grab combo; Chu is safe after the f-throw, and only dies because he was already in a terrible position near the ledge.

 

[Binx]

Yeah but my point is that unless Marth grabs nana on accident then nana gets hit with a fsmash and Marth can recover before you can do anything damaging, if Marth does grab Nana then Popo only gets a lot damage solo grab combo or maybe 1 dsmash.

I'm not saying its an easy match up for Marth, but if he is familiar with it he can't lose unless he makes a lot more mistakes than the Ice Climber player. VS 90% of even good Marths I am pretty confident I would win just because they don't know the spacing nuances the way I would, but vs the few Marths who have match up experience its a really really hard and nearly unwinnable match. And I stand by that its worse than Peach or Samus. It is fun though ^_^

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

hey, i have been playing as pichu so my ice climbers suck a little, and i just got back to WDing like crazy, but i had this wierd jab combo set up. with an ice climber on both sides of them, and they would jab till nana got bored with it,(about 40% chace she would jab, but still bad***)

what i am asking is how could i have done it? i think i rolled nana with a grab or something but i can't remember, and have any of you every done this?

 

[Binx]

Anytime nana decides to randomly jab cause she got separated and you jabbing would do it, it shouldn't work, and it can't be done on command, you could have nana roll towards them and pray but in reality thats just going to get her combo'd.

Any time my nana jabs I try to go for a grab or dash attack unless the person I play spot dodges a lot after jabs then I assume they would do it from a surprise nana jab the same way they would one of mine.

 

[Twin_A]

Hey quick question (although its probably been asked and I just can't find it), how does Wobbles do this trick of switching off grabs? What's the timing for it and who can it be used on effectively?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaNLLN5YGDk

And also what are some practical means of using it (besides the obvious inescapable CGing)?
Thanks ^_^

 

[Binx]

Handoff Chain Grab

 

[DtJ Jungle]

when exactly do you grab for nana? ive been trying it only to fail

 

[Twin_A]

thanks a lot Binx ^_^

 

[choknater]

i realized that ic's are actually quite good on mute city and if someone counter picks me there i won't change characters (even peach)

 

[Binx]

makes sense, if you hit someone off the ledge its a free grab on that stage, although I never looked at it that way, I think the general consensus has always been that we are worse there because we lose chain grabs but people DI out of them now anyways so... yeah.

 

[pockyD]

lol @ IC vs peach on mute city

 

[choknater]

*shrug* better than any of my other chars vs peach. im not confident enough in my fox to play a good peach on that stage, nor my sheik.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The last time I played a good Peach, I lost first round as Fox, then went ICs on Yoshi's Story and Brinstar and won.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Lava --> grab combo all mother****ing dai

 

[Binx]

vs Peach on mute I'd prolly CP sheik or jiggs. But then again I'm not very confident in my IC game anymore because my friends are so good at shutting them down. I always do fine in tourneys with them but it's been a long time since there has been one for melee in my area.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

when exactly do you grab for nana? ive been trying it only to fail

I gotz ignored?

No but seriously, what's the timing for handing off to nana, I seem to fail at this.

 

[Binx]

1) Grab the opponent with Popo near the edge.
2) Down-throw.
3) Time Nana's grab so she catches them before they leave the ground.
4) Wait for her to f-throw, and grab them again.
5) Repeat steps 2-4 until you can grab-smash them for a KO or you run out of room.

More information can be found in the handoff thread, I believe it even tells you that vs certain characters you have to walk forward for a frame or 2 before it will work even with correct timing.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

lol i was playing against a cpu ganon and he knocked me off the stage. he then UpBed my Nana as I squall hammered.


LOL Freeze glitch 2?


XD so good

 

[pockyD]

wait; freeze glitch works if they grab nana (not just if nana grabs them)?!

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

wait; freeze glitch works if they grab nana (not just if nana grabs them)?!

Apparently so. XD

 

[choknater]

lol yeah that happened to me once when falcon b-throw my nana and then i used squall

 

[Drephen]

Quick! Trail Is Coming To A Tourney Im Going To

I Cant Beat Him With Sheik

What Character Should I Learn This Week To Beat Him?!?!?!

 

[Zjiin]

Quick! Trail Is Coming To A Tourney Im Going To

I Cant Beat Him With Sheik

What Character Should I Learn This Week To Beat Him?!?!?!

lmao.

Just go every ice babies main's worst nightmare: dittos.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Lots of ICs hate fighting against Luigi.