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[Seagull Joe]

You cannot cg with Wolf. I have tried this before and it doesn't work. Wolf can grab release infinite Ness and Lucas on a wall, but nothing else really.

 

[Tman1206]

What is wolfs best and worst matchups

 

[castorpollux]

worst matchups are wario/d3

 

[Ishiey]

ishiey, as a moderator, do u have access to the sbr?

Nope Why do you ask?

Atomsk has access, so I can ask him for stuff if he's allowed to share.

Worst matchups, I really don't know. D3 can cg you offstage and then edgeguard pretty badly with bair, and Wario can cg you from about 60% to something like 150%+, I think. Falco has the cg > spike, but there are more ways around that.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I don't have a problem with Wario. His worst matchups are D3, Pika, and Falco. All manageable.

 

[tedeth]

I don't really find Falco too bad. Once you get him offstage, you win. Pika and D3 though are ****ing stupid.

 

[Peppers]

falco is 0->60 % cg and thats if he doesn't spike you sooner. DDD and falco imo are his worse matchups. I have also been having trouble with snakes recently.

also can anyone link me to the pit matchup for wolf because i dont play a lot of them but I need to know the matchup.

 

[Goldenadept]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197552

there's the thread for the pit MU.

against snake, shield a lot, snake has no move that's safe on shields, we've been discussing it on the snake boards and we have trouble against a PS'ing and normal shielding, wolfs fsmash is really good in that mu

 

[Seagull Joe]

falco is 0->60 % cg and thats if he doesn't spike you sooner. DDD and falco imo are his worse matchups. I have also been having trouble with snakes recently.

also can anyone link me to the pit matchup for wolf because i dont play a lot of them but I need to know the matchup.

0-35% chain grab.

 

[tekkie]

0-35% chain grab.

what's the best way to break out again?

 

[Ishiey]

O.o wait. I'm pretty sure Falco can CG you from 0-45, and then finish with dair, DACUS, or shdl > whatever. But if he dthrows you past what, 20% or 30%? Then he can't cg you anymore.

Best way to break out = mash inputs like a madman :3

 

[tekkie]

so like not shine/jump/attack? i feel like there should be a definitive answer for this.

 

[SelfPossessed]

1. There was some discussion on footstooling MK's tornado -> punish in the Snake forums. Would this be useful for Wolf or are there better options (like a jumpshine)?
   
   http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=257913
   
   
2. I also just saw seagull's combo video where he SDIed Diddy's dash attack and Shined. Which multi-hit attacks can Wolf do this against?
   
   I've seen it work against MK's tornado, though it seems dependent on where Wolf is in the tornado (both how he got sucked into it and how the MK DIs). I think I've seen this done against Snake's Nair or Dair.
   
   
3. Against what moves is Nair a better option than Shine?
   
   From what I've been told, this is definitely the case against Snake's mortar (out prioritizes and allows you to punish Snake with the latter portion). In theorycraft it's better at gimping Falco's side B (Nair lasts long enough that varying the timing of the side B or buffering one won't matter - the followup should probably be Shine though). I think I've been told that it works against MK's up B as well.

 

[Ishiey]

I was going to respond, but then realized that I didn't have anything productive to say since I haven't been able to play brawl for 2+ weeks ;__;

Not exactly sure what you mean with the footstool thing though, is it to get out of tornado or to punish once tornado is started?

 

[SelfPossessed]

The thread discussed footstooling the tornado before you got hit by it. It's like footstooling off of someone's shield in that you get a free jump but they suffer no lag. An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWZpVa6C0CQ#t=16

Shine after getting hit by the Tornado is more of my second question, so I covered both.

 

[Ishiey]

Ah, I see...

Idk, can't we just rising fair/bair/bayonet/shine the tornado instead? Iirc, those can all go through the top... footstooling would give us a chance to punish with dair if we wanted to risk it, nair if we felt like it, or falling shine > jabs if we can manage it. I don't see why we'd want the jump over a hit for 99.9% of scenarios.

For once you get hit, I heard that holding one direction and mashing is the best way to get out. Idk which one is better for getting out though, nair or shine.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario is imo Wolfs worst match-up.

As for Shine vs Nair? Nair is imo better OoS, has less lag and it's combos are less situational / limited as Shine. Shine is invincible of course and gives you tons of options for camping in the air and still combos into AAA if you do it right. Nair is better to go into offense from a defensive position whereas Shine - if used right - solidifies your defenses. Both moves are cool.

 

[SelfPossessed]

Thanks for the responses!

However, I was more looking for character specific moves/situations for questions 2 and 3. I'm aware of the general concept behind Wolf's moves, but I am unaware of when to use them in which matchups and in which situations.

With the second question, understanding what moves are feasible to SDI -> Shine out of gives me something to practice that nullifies certain moves from the opponent's moveset. This can be matchup changing (like with GW's Bair). Some moves are either almost never used or have such low knockback/high enough hitstun that SDI -> Shine isn't even worth trying (Wario's Dair or Sheik's Ftilt).

With the third question, I'm trying to gain a better understanding of how Nair's priority works against matchup specific moves. For example, I had been using Shine and Airdodge against Snake's mortars for the longest time and getting destroyed for it on landing every time. Then JJ tells me to use Nair and now I'm suddenly not getting destroyed by mortars (though tilts, grabs, nades, etc. still destroy me).


tl;dr list specific character moves plz

 

[Ishiey]

SDI > shine should work for Diddy's fsmash since Jigglypuff can rest out of it. If we SDI > PS the last hit of Diddy's dash attack, a frame perfect usmash OoS is guaranteed, I think... For other characters, we can shield TL's grounded upB >_> We might be able to shine out of Pit's fsmash too, but I can't say I've ever done it.

 

[rvkevin]

SDI > shine should work for Diddy's fsmash since Jigglypuff can rest out of it. If we SDI > PS the last hit of Diddy's dash attack, a frame perfect usmash OoS is guaranteed, I think... For other characters, we can shield TL's grounded upB >_> We might be able to shine out of Pit's fsmash too, but I can't say I've ever done it.

For all of these ground moves, you're basically trying to DI behind them...once you get on the ground, Fsmash would probably be just as good. As for GnW's Bair, DI out to Bair is much better than Shine.

Btw, Diddy's Dash Attack has 3 hits, with the second having almost zero knock back...so he can hit you with Dash Attack and you'll still be left standing if he doesn't space it correctly.

Shine is basically better than Nair when you need to be invincible...like against MK's Aerials, GnW's Bair, Kirby's Bair, Diddy's Fair, etc. Shine is better for breaking pseudo combos, etc.

 

[Seagull Joe]

SDI > shine should work for Diddy's fsmash since Jigglypuff can rest out of it. If we SDI > PS the last hit of Diddy's dash attack, a frame perfect usmash OoS is guaranteed, I think... For other characters, we can shield TL's grounded upB >_> We might be able to shine out of Pit's fsmash too, but I can't say I've ever done it.

I'd think if you were grounded and some Pit used an Fsmash and you wanted to beat it that Jab would be best option because a Jab grounded is fastest grounded move. 4 frames quicker than shine. As is Nair in the air.

This is all theory craft unless someone shows me vids of them actually Jabbing/Shining/Nair'ing through a Pit Fsmash. It'd be cool, but you also could SDI hits and end up behind them. I do this with Snake Ftilts unintentionally and Toon Link's Fsmash.

 

[rvkevin]

It'd be cool, but you also could SDI hits and end up behind them.

Isn't this what we're talking about...For Pit's Fsmash, DI up to avoid the second hit and then fall with a Shine or Nair...Sometimes, you're to far away to DI behind them, so you can DI the first hit away and then punish with Fsmash; it all depends on where you are in relation to your opponent when you first get hit.

 

[SelfPossessed]

Hurm. I say someone responsible should make a "what we can SDI and what to follow it up with" like thread. I know I've SDIed Pit's Fsmash before, but I'm always surprised when I'm actually successful and never know what to do after. >.<

For Nair vs Shine, I suppose I'll just experiment. *shrug* Nair is just plain weird sometimes.

 

[Dynomite]

Whats the best way to get out of sheik's tilt lock?

im guessing SDI down and shield?

 

[tekkie]

Whats the best way to get out of sheik's tilt lock?

im guessing SDI down and shield?

while i have no clue i feel like we should have a thread on what's best to get out of stupid crap.

falco/pika/wario/DDD CG, shiek's lock, a handful of other crap i wont remember until later


ALSO shine > jab is supposed to be a true combo or something isn't it? every time i try it out it pushes them out of range of the first two jabs. is it supposed to be a rising/falling jump shine, grounded shine, etc.?

 

[Seagull Joe]

while i have no clue i feel like we should have a thread on what's best to get out of stupid crap.

falco/pika/wario/DDD CG, shiek's lock, a handful of other crap i wont remember until later


ALSO shine > jab is supposed to be a true combo or something isn't it? every time i try it out it pushes them out of range of the first two jabs. is it supposed to be a rising/falling jump shine, grounded shine, etc.?

Short hop shine>aaa.
Shine>Dtilt.

 

[Goldenadept]

i think for sheiks tilt lock it is sdi down and shield, up with just get you utilted into another lock and if you try backwards sheik will just inch along with you, is there anyway to shine out of it?

 

[Ishiey]

while i have no clue i feel like we should have a thread on what's best to get out of stupid crap.

falco/pika/wario/DDD CG, shiek's lock, a handful of other crap i wont remember until later

AGREED. I think someone was going to do this, but then got lazy (wasn't me this time, promise)

ALSO shine > jab is supposed to be a true combo or something isn't it? every time i try it out it pushes them out of range of the first two jabs. is it supposed to be a rising/falling jump shine, grounded shine, etc.?

Uh... works grounded for me. Buffered dtilt is also guaranteed on some, idk if sh shine lets you legit combo though.

 

[tekkie]

Uh... works grounded for me. Buffered dtilt is also guaranteed on some, idk if sh shine lets you legit combo though.

i'm so scared of shining on the ground lol

 

[Ishiey]

lol yeah, I don't actually shine on the ground but like a landing shine, y'know? It shouldn't be guaranteed if you do an instant shine from a SH... UNLESS there is less lag on an aerial shine.

@__@ I'm not testing that lol.

 

[_Kain_]

lol for CG's jus mash the **** out of ur control n pray u get out before they do the grab...other than that say bye bye to ur stock if its a death CG XD

 

[Goldenadept]

lol for CG's jus mash the **** out of ur control n pray u get out before they do the grab...other than that say bye bye to ur stock if its a death CG XD

CG's sure but sometimes there's ways outta tilt locks, i hope

 

[Seagull Joe]

Sheik has no assureded way of tilt locking you as long as you stay aerial the whole time. She can set up the tilt lock by using a fair grounded, dtilt, or walking ftilt. She needs you to be grounded to do these things. Laser from a distance and repeated bair walls trumps Sheiks ability to get you in a tilt lock because she won't be able to set it up. If she does then SDI up.

 

[tekkie]

If she does then SDI up.

we're talking worst case scenario man

 

[_Kain_]

we're talking worst case scenario man

I think its DI down and toward if i remember rite....then shield

 

[SelfPossessed]

How does Nair shield poke?

I've seen it shield poke when the shield is decently sized. But then I've seen it not shield poke when the shield was puny. I can't seem to figure out the best way to get it to poke through. I'm assuming it's different per character and if they angle the shield as well.

 

[rvkevin]

How does Nair shield poke?

I've seen it shield poke when the shield is decently sized. But then I've seen it not shield poke when the shield was puny. I can't seem to figure out the best way to get it to poke through. I'm assuming it's different per character and if they angle the shield as well.

Because Rob has a big head. On other characters its not so easy to land though.

 

[Peppers]

How does Nair shield poke?

I've seen it shield poke when the shield is decently sized. But then I've seen it not shield poke when the shield was puny. I can't seem to figure out the best way to get it to poke through. I'm assuming it's different per character and if they angle the shield as well.

most times you'll just get shield grabbed. I wouldn't recommend nair to poke. Bair or Fair is a better option.

 

[Ishiey]

Does anyone know the shieldstun and whatnot of the weak hits?

Crossover nair on the way down from a FH or something seems to be a decent option though...

 

[Seagull Joe]

Problem with Nair is that it's unpredictable as to what you're going to do. It can either shave damage with hitback or carry them with you for any combo setup. The first hit will be knockback similar to Wolf's bair, but that requires you to hit them at the startup at close range. I personally love doing that. It especially easy to implement with Nair Oos.