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[rvkevin]

Okay, sorry about this noobish question. What is the easiest way to Usmash out of shield? Should I keep tap jump on for wolf since i heard that helps?

Slide your thumb from Y to A while holding up. No need for tap jump.

 

[Ishiey]

Usmash OoS works because you're doing a jump-cancelled usmash (since jumping OoS removes the 7-frame drop time for the 6-frames-till-airborne time). After pressing jump, you have those six frames to input usmash. I try to input it as quickly as possible (c stick) so that I have a higher chance of catching my opponent by surprise so they don't DI out. But basically, yes jumping is required but not necessarily tap jump.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Rvkevin too good.

 

[Gah777]

Slide your thumb from Y to A while holding up. No need for tap jump.

"The tap jump stays on! hoh-hoh" *Says like Mickey Mouse from South Park

 

[DanGR]

Why doesn't anyone use Wolf... he's good.

Also, why is Sheik listed as only a small disadvantage in the matchup thread. That's hilarious.

 

[rvkevin]

Why doesn't anyone use Wolf... he's good.

They do, Choice and JJ Wolf are wolf mains that have been on PRs, and known players such as Atomsk, Anti, and Judge use him in tourney. There are better options to choose, where you can't be CP'ed as bad by character or stage. During the infancy of development, Wolf's fall rate makes him vulnerable to many pseudo combos that require specific match up knowledge on how to avoid or to get out of.

 

[Ishiey]

]Also, why is Sheik listed as only a small disadvantage in the matchup thread. That's hilarious.

How so, ftilt lock stuffs? It's really not that bad... What else does Sheik have on Wolf?

 

[DanGR]

They do, Choice and JJ Wolf are wolf mains that have been on PRs, and known players such as Atomsk, Anti, and Judge use him in tourney. There are better options to choose, where you can't be CP'ed as bad by character or stage. During the infancy of development, Wolf's fall rate makes him vulnerable to many pseudo combos that require specific match up knowledge on how to avoid or to get out of.

Fair enough.

How so, ftilt lock stuffs? It's really not that bad... What else does Sheik have on Wolf?

Not that bad? 25ish-50ish% to death from ftilts into guaranteed tipper upsmash isn't that bad?

It's like how Falco use to have the 0-death on characters like Link at 0%. (It was like this until people learned to SDI the spike onto the stage) He could just go for the grab until he got it. He takes damage getting the grab? So what? One grab = stock. Falco has a billion setups for it.

Same way with Sheik's ftilt except you can't purposely hurt yourself with bombs to make yourself resistant to ftilt. All she has to do is get 1 and there goes your stock.

I'd like to see a competent Sheik player lose to a Wolf... ever.

Have any videos? T___T

 

[Ishiey]

Not that bad? 25ish-50ish% to death from ftilts into guaranteed tipper upsmash isn't that bad?

It's like how Falco use to have the 0-death on characters like Link at 0%. (It was like this until people learned to SDI the spike onto the stage) He could just go for the grab until he got it. He takes damage getting the grab? So what? One grab = stock. Falco has a billion setups for it.

Same way with Sheik's ftilt except you can't purposely hurt yourself with bombs to make yourself resistant to ftilt. All she has to do is get 1 and there goes your stock.

I'd like to see a competent Sheik player lose to a Wolf... ever.

Have any videos? T___T

The tipper usmash is guaranteed??? I've never been tippered out of the lock... probably depends on DI, I've seen SDI do crazy things so I doubt that. And from what I've heard, the decay on ftilt is a big factor in how long the chain will work... and I haven't heard any Sheik mains say it's a throwaway matchup either. But to be fair, I've never played an expert Sheik myself. Omniswell would know though.

This set is really old, but it's all that's on youtube on Wolf vs Sheik that I've been able to find ._. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QRytSYf_1o&NR=1

 

[DanGR]

I'm about 95% sure it's a guaranteed tipper upsmash from the ftilt lock.

I haven't tested every possible method of escaping death, but I will say that I've got excellent QCDI skills (I've DIed Falco's dthrow->spike directly onto the stage about a roll length away from the ledge on a couple of occasions) and I have tried on several occasions to DI the ftilt any other way but towards Sheik to avoid the upsmash. Usually, I can get Sheik to turn around to ftilt the opposite way after about two or so at around 60-70ish%. Once I'm around the 80s she has to ftilt once, turn around ftilt, then turn around again, over and over. Then she finishes the combo.

If she does it late you can footstool to get out.

If I DI towards Sheik, she can simply turn around and ftilt the opposite way. DIing up and towards her (the way to get out) will put me at tipper range. If I DI away from her towards her foot at the top of the ftilt, I practically won't ever get out and she can simply nair me once I'm at a kill percent.

edit: that match... is more than a year old. >_> Yeah, unusable.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I'm about 95% sure it's a guaranteed tipper upsmash from the ftilt lock.

I haven't tested every possible method of escaping death, but I will say that I've got excellent QCDI skills (I've DIed Falco's dthrow->spike directly onto the stage about a roll length away from the ledge on a couple of occasions) and I have tried on several occasions to DI the ftilt any other way but towards Sheik to avoid the upsmash. Usually, I can get Sheik to turn around to ftilt the opposite way after about two or so at around 60-70ish%. Once I'm around the 80s she has to ftilt once, turn around ftilt, then turn around again, over and over. Then she finishes the combo.

If she does it late you can footstool to get out.

If I DI towards Sheik, she can simply turn around and ftilt the opposite way. DIing up and towards her (the way to get out) will put me at tipper range. If I DI away from her towards her foot at the top of the ftilt, I practically won't ever get out and she can simply nair me once I'm at a kill percent.

edit: that match... is more than a year old. >_> Yeah, unusable.

Yes. It is guarenteed tipper usmash. In tourney I beat a Sheik. Sheik has nothing on Wolf besides the tilt lock. Sheik's recovery is predictable and highly punishable. She also is pretty light to be killed by dsmash. Even if it doesn't kill she can be gimped rather easily afterwards. After certain percents the tilt lock doesn't work. Around later percents. And the tilt lock cannot start till around 30%. Sheik is also the easiest character to combo with Wolf. bair>fsmash always hits.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If it wasn't for the ftilt lock ... Sheik wouldn't have ANYTHING against Wolf.

 

[Ishiey]

I'm about 95% sure it's a guaranteed tipper upsmash from the ftilt lock.

I haven't tested every possible method of escaping death, but I will say that I've got excellent QCDI skills (I've DIed Falco's dthrow->spike directly onto the stage about a roll length away from the ledge on a couple of occasions) and I have tried on several occasions to DI the ftilt any other way but towards Sheik to avoid the upsmash. Usually, I can get Sheik to turn around to ftilt the opposite way after about two or so at around 60-70ish%. Once I'm around the 80s she has to ftilt once, turn around ftilt, then turn around again, over and over. Then she finishes the combo.

If she does it late you can footstool to get out.

If I DI towards Sheik, she can simply turn around and ftilt the opposite way. DIing up and towards her (the way to get out) will put me at tipper range. If I DI away from her towards her foot at the top of the ftilt, I practically won't ever get out and she can simply nair me once I'm at a kill percent.

edit: that match... is more than a year old. >_> Yeah, unusable.

At what % does her nair kill Wolf? And at %s where you can get behind her after just one ftilt, doesn't it turn into a guessing game of whether you'll DI behind or not? And (wow I ask too many questions) is footstooling the fastest way to get out if she messes up? People USED to reccomend FFing and shield, idk if that's still viable.

Idk, it definitely seems like you know this matchup better than I do so I'll take your word for it next time I see a Sheik I'll MM them to find out more for myself. But what the others have said is also true: There is next to nothing that Sheik has over Wolf besides the ftilt shenanigans.

 

[DanGR]

I really don't claim to know much about the matchup... just about her ftilt and Wolf's options at getting out of it once he's in... I picked up Wolf only very recently, to try to use him and see if I like him or not.

That said, a good friend of mine uses Sheik and, at a quick glance (You guys are all a lot more experienced with Wolf's spacing game than I am), it seems impossible to space anything but backairs and forwardairs. (and it seems very difficult at that)

To answer your questions...

Nair should kill... decently well I think. I don't have kill percents against Wolf memorized yet... :/

You can get behind her after one ftilt at about the time she's going to upsmash you.

If you're below about -25ish% you can just hold down and towards Sheik and shield. At around 25-50ish% Sheik can begin the tilt lock and lock you in place until death. The higher the percent you're at, the more often Sheik has to turn around to keep the lock going. I believe it's because there's more knockback and so it'll send you up and towards her more. At around 50ish%+ she can't tilt lock you anymore. Her forward tilt will have too much knockback, undiminished.

The fastest way (I think) to get out is too either shield if you're at low enough a percent, or DI up and towards her head and footstool at the correct time. It helps a bit if you can keep mixing up your DI as you're getting locked- make her turn around more often.

 

[Gindler]

If it wasn't for the ftilt lock ... Sheik wouldn't have ANYTHING against Wolf.

Sounds like Pika Vs. Wolf with the CG...Pika ain't got nothin'

*pokemon chosen at random*

 

[_Kain_]

Nair kills? I thot it was either gimps, a fair, or a upsmash

 

[Healer]

what are the best ways to get up on stage and how do you do them (the advanced ones)?

 

[Ishiey]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193685

This is something I put together a long time ago, haven't done much editing to it recently but take what you can about ledge options.

I find that rolling gets the job done surprisingly well, and I <3 lightstepping on BF. It's best to know all of your options though, different people leave themselves vulnerable to different options.

 

[Healer]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193685

This is something I put together a long time ago, haven't done much editing to it recently but take what you can about ledge options.

I find that rolling gets the job done surprisingly well, and I <3 lightstepping on BF. It's best to know all of your options though, different people leave themselves vulnerable to different options.

*referring to the thread posted* how do you 'ledgehop' I think i know what it is i just don't kno how to do it (btw, sorry if ask questions that may seem simple/stupid to others lolz, just wanna learn more)

 

[Ishiey]

Don't worry lol, it's called the simple question thread for a reason

Tap back to drop from the ledge, and then jump right away while holding towards the stage. By doing so, you'll travel onto the stage with your double jump, and can do any move that you can regularly do during your double jump while getting onto the stage.

 

[Wartusk]

Question 1
Alright, I spent the whole night playing my friend, then at one point he decided to use Zelda. Suddenly he was unstoppable. I couldn't beat him with wolf or any of my backup characters :/ If I stayed away I would just get din fired. If I approached, he would let his C-stick and rolls do the work. Any blaster or anything else I tried would just get reflected, and if I was almost able to land a hit I would just get hit by his reflector. Any tips for this MU? I read through the MU discussion but it didn't seem too helpful. Maybe I was being too aggressive?


Question 2
How do I do the DACUS? Didn't really understand the AT summary of it...

 

[MrEh]

Question 1
Alright, I spent the whole night playing my friend, then at one point he decided to use Zelda. Suddenly he was unstoppable. I couldn't beat him with wolf or any of my backup characters :/ If I stayed away I would just get din fired. If I approached, he would let his C-stick and rolls do the work. Any blaster or anything else I tried would just get reflected, and if I was almost able to land a hit I would just get hit by his reflector. Any tips for this MU? I read through the MU discussion but it didn't seem too helpful. Maybe I was being too aggressive?

Zelda sucks dude.

Get within mid range and camp her with your laser. Just punish everything she does, she lags like crazy. Get a lead, and run away. Zelda's approach options are piss poor.

 

[Wartusk]

Looking back on it, I think I was trying way too hard. One thing that was working out nicely is shooting at her while being just out of range so that if it is reflected it won't hit me. At the same time when I try this he would sometimes use Neutral B fireball at the right time and Zelda NeutB > Wolfs blaster.

 

[tekkie]

never ever ever ever just run at zelda. that's how people get wrecked by a horrible character. she's just going to fsmash or usmash as soon as you get close. mid range is the best, especially for laser, because if they try to repel it and mess up you can punish them easily.

when you're in that area where she can't use din's fire without punishment but not close enough to smash you're in control

 

[Wartusk]

Alright, I'll definitely keep that in mind for next time, thanks.

And how do you DACUS?

 

[Javon89]

Is spamming a little Bair aggro bad for a Wolf.

 

[Javon89]

Alright, I'll definitely keep that in mind for next time, thanks.

And how do you DACUS?

Just dash and flick up the C-stick

 

[Ishiey]

Is spamming a little Bair aggro bad for a Wolf.

Not if you can space well and if your opponent can't read your pattern of bairs and PS them.

Also, please try to avoid double posting

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I'm new to this board. What does it take to become a good wolf player? How can I get better @ reading and predicting my opponents?

 

[Healer]

I'm new to this board. What does it take to become a good wolf player? How can I get better @ reading and predicting my opponents?

I'm kinda new here too, been here for like what, 3 months? First off, get a feel of the character, which in your case I'm guessing WOLF. Try to play with ppl, especially those who actually go to tourneys (cpus, are okay, but they won't really prepare you as much) try wifi as well (but IMO bairs are hard to do via wifi.) Once you've gotten used to your char, decided whether you like him or not, and already have developed some bad habits, now it's time to get rid of those habits and learn good ones. Read all the threads you can in this link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194629
helped me alot, but I pretty much sucked that info dry. When you have questions ask this thread, even for simple/stupid stuff, it's best to know right?

Hmm, well I have no idea exactly how to "read" people, but if you play with someone long enough you'll see what they do alot for ex: my tourney friend loves to grab me, I know not to run in those grabs, and to space properly.) I would just say, to watch them closely, read the matchups to get a feel on what they may or maynot do. Also I'd say focus on Wolf and only wolf for a few weeks, once you get a good feel of him and gotten rid of those bad habits, you can play other characters as well. Ppl tell me to go to tourneys, but I still haven't gone to my first one.

Take my advice "with a grain of salt" cuz I'm not the best wolf (tho my friend tells me I'm the "best wolf in FL" yea sure.... can someone clarify that for me, are there any other wolfs here in the Sunshine State? especially those who are actually IN tourneys"

 

[tekkie]

alright you furry emo rapists

can you or can you not shine out of the pikachu CG? if so what is a good followup? if not, what the hell should you be doing while you're getting *****?

also what moves punish snake's ftilt after shielding it? fsmash? ftilt? dtilt? it always feels like snake can just shield everything. if that's the case, dash grab?

 

[Goldenadept]

i think you can shine outta it unless its perfectly buffered, but if they do it to you until you're at a killing % i'm not sure there is any good follow-up is there?
its wether or not you shield both of the hits from the ftilt, if you shield (or ps) the 2nd hit you can fsmash him, if he stops after the 1st hit and realizes you're shielding grab him, cause thats what he's going to try and do to you if he doesnt back away, does the 1st hit knock you too far away to grab?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How do you cancel side-b? Is there only 1 way to cancel side-b?

 

[Goldenadept]

i dont know if there's a sure fire way of actually doing it, its just muscle memory for me and even then its hit and miss >< i probably do it wrong, i think you have to tap be again during the initial frames for side b, there's two ways, one will stop it right away and you wont go too far, (but further than a normal side b) and a long one where half the animation starts then it cancels and you go flying off into space XD either way you give up your hitbox but its helpful for recovery sometimes

 

[Ishiey]

Shining out of Pika's CG depends on how they do the CG and the %s, but you shouldn't be able to. Snake's ftilt, Golden has it covered ;D

There's a post I used to learn flash cancelling, I'll find it ONCE THE SEARCH FUNCTION STARTS WORKING I should put frequently asked questions in the OP though. But basically, you want to find a certain clue (visual example: when Wolf rears back; audial example: when you hear the whoosh noise) that works for you. After you find a clue that helps you consistently nail the cancel, keep practicing until you can kinda get the timing down by muscle memory.

 

[Ishiey]

And now for a question of my own.

Jumpshine OoS, does anyone use it, and how useful is it? My controllers make it a real hassle

 

[tekkie]

And now for a question of my own.

Jumpshine OoS, does anyone use it, and how useful is it? My controllers make it a real hassle

well, jj is going to come in here and tell you it ***** face.

i use it as a sort of panic button if really necessary since it gets you out of sticky situations, and it does hurt a lot of aerial approaches.

set either l/r to special and you're good to go.

 

[Ishiey]

well, jj is going to come in here and tell you it ***** face.

i use it as a sort of panic button if really necessary since it gets you out of sticky situations, and it does hurt a lot of aerial approaches.

set either l/r to special and you're good to go.

See, that's the problem, I don't have a functional GC controller yet T.T

What matchups is it most helpful in, can you give me situations or something? Like for example, does jumpshine OoS get you out of Kirby's fair?

 

[castorpollux]

well, jj is going to come in here and tell you it ***** face.

i use it as a sort of panic button if really necessary since it gets you out of sticky situations, and it does hurt a lot of aerial approaches.

set either l/r to special and you're good to go.

Jumpshine sucks...


SURPRISE MOTHER****ERSSSSS

 

[Ishiey]

Jumpshine sucks...


SURPRISE MOTHER****ERSSSSS

Lol. I think that's a bit of a stretch, but some of us certainly hyped it more than we should've. I'm just wondering if the instant invincibility would help us do something like, for example, jumpshine OoS after the first hit of Pit's fsmash and punish the ending lag with a dair.

Shine is good in the air though, unless there's a character that can outspeed/outrange our ~frame 7 aerials.

 

[Peppers]

Jumpshine saves lives... I use it all the time on my way down from aerials when my opponent is below me. Unless they outrange us it causes invicibility that can negate your opponents attack and leave you in perfect position to smash/grab or whatever you can think of in his cooldown frames. i guess that's not really a jumpshine but it's an aerial shine nonetheless. btw shine ->dtilt is pretty good, especially to mix things up.

that's my little rant, take what you will.