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[Dynomite]

There's nothing wrong with wifi It's actually really helpful for learning matchups, from what I hear.

Learn exactly how to handle your recovery and how to space your moves properly, those are the two biggest things imo. Recovery because it's somewhat tricky for Wolf and if you suck with it you're going to die a lot more than you should, and spacing because Wolf has excellent range and it's basically a must for any character. Get the basics going on, and then you'll be able to develop an effective style of play yourself

K thanks. I just dont like my wifi wolf because im too agro and im a blood thirsty wolf. Ill try to focus more on the spacing and not so much blood thirst.

 

[Seagull Joe]

K thanks. I just dont like my wifi wolf because im too agro and im a blood thirsty wolf. Ill try to focus more on the spacing and not so much blood thirst.

I play a very aggro Wolf. If you want help being stupidly aggro then ask.

 

[Dynomite]

I play a very aggro Wolf. If you want help being stupidly aggro then ask.

uh, i wana learn how to beat people.

 

[Seagull Joe]

uh, i wana learn how to beat people.

I mean stupidly as in like a synonym for very. I beat people being very aggro. Though I do camp when I need to or it's the best option.

Pretty much if you have the percent lead then you can laser camp and force approaches.

Check some of my vids from the video thread. The more recent ones is my current Wolf's metagame.

 

[Dynomite]

I mean stupidly as in like a synonym for very. I beat people being very aggro. Though I do camp when I need to or it's the best option.

Pretty much if you have the percent lead then you can laser camp and force approaches.

Check some of my vids from the video thread. The more recent ones is my current Wolf's metagame.

Thanks. Ill check out some of your vids.

 

[rvkevin]

uh, i wana learn how to beat people.

http://www.siriusuplink.com/wolfxat.html#

1. Play people on Wifi
2. Get better
3. Win

 

[castorpollux]

I have a question people that still hasn't been answered by anyone


How come if you jump into someone and shine, you can grab them and have it actually be a true combo?

 

[rvkevin]

I have a question people that still hasn't been answered by anyone


How come if you jump into someone and shine, you can grab them and have it actually be a true combo?

Imagine shine as a circle. If you shine someone on the ground, they have a set knock back from from where you hit them lets say at 270 degrees (Like a on compass, standing on the right of them). If you shine the in the air, they have set knock back from where you hit them lets say at 225 degrees. If you draw a vertical line at each point, the difference in distance becomes apparent, basically when you hit them when falling, you're hitting them on a different part of the shine, and thus not hitting them as far.

 

[castorpollux]

Imagine shine as a circle. If you shine someone on the ground, they have a set knock back from from where you hit them lets say at 270 degrees (Like a on compass, standing on the right of them). If you shine the in the air, they have set knock back from where you hit them lets say at 225 degrees. If you draw a vertical line at each point, the difference in distance becomes apparent, basically when you hit them when falling, you're hitting them on a different part of the shine, and thus not hitting them as far.

-_- that's not the point. (and i'm not an idiot... my question isn't about the spacing aspect)



Shine only gives someone a 4 frame advantage

Grab takes 6 frames


SOMETHING DOESNT ADD UP

 

[rvkevin]

Shine only gives someone a 4 frame advantage

Grab takes 6 frames


SOMETHING DOESNT ADD UP

Somebody made a mistake doing the frame data.

 

[castorpollux]

i know for a fact that wolf's grab is longer than 4 frames

and i know for a fact that wolf's shine is 4 frames long


This is my own testing...

 

[rvkevin]

i know for a fact that wolf's grab is longer than 4 frames

and i know for a fact that wolf's shine is 4 frames long


This is my own testing...

But that testing was done on the ground, right? Does it work against one frame Jabs?

 

[castorpollux]

But that testing was done on the ground, right? Does it work against one frame Jabs?

It works against wolf's shine -____-

 

[Ishiey]

Remember that thread .joel made about 0 landing lag when using Shine from a certain height? Maybe it cuts out some of the cooldown?

I don't have frame hacks, but if someone tells me how to test for that stuff I can try to check it out.

 

[castorpollux]

Remember that thread .joel made about 0 landing lag when using Shine from a certain height? Maybe it cuts out some of the cooldown?

I don't have frame hacks, but if someone tells me how to test for that stuff I can try to check it out.

Works on the ground too against fat characters

 

[Seagull Joe]

Remember that thread .joel made about 0 landing lag when using Shine from a certain height? Maybe it cuts out some of the cooldown?

I don't have frame hacks, but if someone tells me how to test for that stuff I can try to check it out.

Works on the ground too against fat characters

But that testing was done on the ground, right? Does it work against one frame Jabs?

Somebody made a mistake doing the frame data.

i know for a fact that wolf's grab is longer than 4 frames

and i know for a fact that wolf's shine is 4 frames long


This is my own testing...

-_- that's not the point. (and i'm not an idiot... my question isn't about the spacing aspect)



Shine only gives someone a 4 frame advantage

Grab takes 6 frames


SOMETHING DOESNT ADD UP

I have a question people that still hasn't been answered by anyone


How come if you jump into someone and shine, you can grab them and have it actually be a true combo?

Imagine shine as a circle. If you shine someone on the ground, they have a set knock back from from where you hit them lets say at 270 degrees (Like a on compass, standing on the right of them). If you shine the in the air, they have set knock back from where you hit them lets say at 225 degrees. If you draw a vertical line at each point, the difference in distance becomes apparent, basically when you hit them when falling, you're hitting them on a different part of the shine, and thus not hitting them as far.

Who you gonna call?!?!?!?!

Gho-

Perfectedidiot2.

 

[Ishiey]

Who you gonna call?!?!?!?!

Gho-

Perfectedidiot2.

QFT

+rep Seagull :3

 

[Deleted member]

I've been told that using the C-stick is the best way to go about using aerial moves. Is this really true? I understand that it affects your momentum less for bair and such, but I've been trying it out and it feels so...awkward. It's awkward to the point of restricting, and I can kill better using Wolf's bair the normal way.

Thoughts?

 

[tekkie]

I've been told that using the C-stick is the best way to go about using aerial moves. Is this really true? I understand that it affects your momentum less for bair and such, but I've been trying it out and it feels so...awkward. It's awkward to the point of restricting, and I can kill better using Wolf's bair the normal way.

Thoughts?

it definitely depends on using. my bair wall is usually roll thumb from Y to A while holding back then switching to c-stick to fast fall another bair. basically, rising aerials i use A while everything else i c-stick.

basically whatever works when you consider how your movement is affected and how comfortable it is.

 

[Deleted member]

Fast falling while doing the bair wall seems like a case when the c-stick can be useful. Other than that, I'll just stick with what's comfortable.

 

[tedeth]

c-stick is alot better because you can be moving in one direction and aerial in the other direction without changin momentum. Retreating fair for example.

 

[castorpollux]

is it just me, or is the timing for side b cancel different if you are in the air than it is on the ground. I can cancel it on the ground very consistently. I can't cancel it in the air consistently at all though

 

[Gah777]

It seems like it...

And on a side note, but still somewhat related to the above... Anybody know if the timing of the s-b cancels vary across the spacies?

 

[Ishiey]

It could be different because sideB in the air has two extra frames of startup time (I think PI told me this a long time ago when he was getting the frame data)

No idea if the timings vary, but I'm pretty sure they do since I can cancel so much easier with Falco >_>

 

[SelfPossessed]

I've read several times that Marth can do an unspaced SH FF Fair and avoid getting grabbed with up B. Can Wolf do the same with unspaced SH FF Bair -> Shine? Wolf's FF speed is slower than Marth's, which might be a factor.

 

[castorpollux]

he can self possessed

 

[tekkie]

you mean like a jumpshine?

 

[SelfPossessed]

Naw, it takes several frames to jump, so that won't work. I was just wondering if grounded Shine after unspaced Bair works, which would give me more options. I just need to practice auto canceling Bair at the earliest possible moment.

Does buffering a spotdodge work after unspaced Bair against shieldgrabs? It takes a few more frames, but it's less risky than grounded Shine if it works.

 

[castorpollux]

Naw, it takes several frames to jump, so that won't work. I was just wondering if grounded Shine after unspaced Bair works, which would give me more options. I just need to practice auto canceling Bair at the earliest possible moment.

Does buffering a spotdodge work after unspaced Bair against shieldgrabs? It takes a few more frames, but it's less risky than grounded Shine if it works.

probably not. wolf's spotdodge isn'tretardedly good like falco's

 

[SelfPossessed]

Falco's spotdodge is awesome because the invincibility frames last longer, not because of the startup.

According to our frame data, Wolf's spotdodge starts on frame 2. If it's buffered, the invincibility starts only 1 frame later than Shine.

 

[rvkevin]

Does buffering a spotdodge work after unspaced Bair against shieldgrabs? It takes a few more frames, but it's less risky than grounded Shine if it works.

No, just double jump away if you aren't going to be able to space it correctly.

 

[SelfPossessed]

Out of curiosity, is that 1 frame difference between Shine and Spotdodge that important to stopping shield grabs after unspaced Bair? I'm really hoping that I don't have to always rely on DJ (it puts me in bad positions).

 

[Ishiey]

If it isn't spaced correctly but done right before you land, you can shine or spotdodge after the bair to avoid a shieldgrab (barring PS). If you bair and take too long to land, better space properly or be prepared to DJ away

 

[jpak]

Can someoone tell me how to auto cancel Wolf's fair like in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyhnF4jZa_Y#movie_player at 3:20. Also does it still do the smae maount of damage or does it cancel everything as a whole?

 

[Gah777]

it's really simple, actually. you just short hop and f-air at the same time, essentially.

and yes, it still does the full amount of damage and is one of wolf's best moves, ever.

 

[jpak]

Oh i get it now thanks, it has to be done right after I short hop. Which isn't relaly possible the way I hold my controller, anyiodeas on how I should change my controls, or how I should hold my game cube controller differnetly?

At the moment I use the default controls, y to short hop, middle finger on right, index on z, and thumb for a/b/cstick

 

[Gah777]

It's possible with default controls. It's a little hard for me to explain, but the way i do it is hit jump(y button), then forward (control stick) and A. I have my thumb positioned over the y and A buttons so i can hit them simultaneously.

Just practice it. You'll get the hang of it eventually

 

[audauro]

Who you gonna call?!?!?!?!

Gho-

Perfectedidiot2.

okay so i talked to PI and yeah he tested it and apparently it is a true combo on a lot of characters. It's not a true combo on wolf, but it essentially is a combo because wolf has a 1/30 of a second time interval where he can press shine and get out of it (this is really hard to do)

 

[perfectedidiot2]

^^^^^^^^

In more technical terms it goes something like this.

All characters suffer from at least 4 frames of disadvantage and we know that grab comes out on frame 6.

So, if you buffered a grab out of shine a character would have at most, 2 frames to do something about it and there aren't many moves that give invincibility or a hitbox on the first two frames. So its a de facto combo in most cases.

and that's assuming they don't suffer more than a 4 frame disadvantage, most characters have more than that as shown below.

Shine Frame Advantage (Greatest to Smallest)
Jiggs: 7
Lucas: 6
G&W: 6
Squirtle: 6
Pika: 6
Kirby:6
MK: 6
D3: 6
Olimar: 6
Fox: 6
Falco: 6
ZSS: 6
Pit: 6
IC: 5, 7(nana)
Mario: 5
Luigi: 5
Peach: 5
Bowser: 5
Donkey: 5
Diddy: 5
Yoshi: 5
Ness: 5
Snake: 5
Sonic: 5
Charizard: 5
Zelda: 5
Sheik: 5
Ganon: 5
TLink: 5
Link: 5
Marth: 5
Wario: 4
Samus: 4
ROB: 4
Wolf: 4
CF: 4
Ivysaur: 4
Lucario: 4
Ike: 4

Now back to my rock.

 

[Apollo$]

What is Wolf's best stage or a good CP for the majority of his MU's?