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- Thread starter ¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
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tekkie
Smash Master
what about tapping in the direction you want to go? if i understand it correctly QCDI allows for more inputs but tapping in one direction is more specific.
Lazy DI is my kind of DI 
Tapping one direction is practically impossible to do as quickly as QC. QC only works on the analog stick though, because you always have to return the c-stick to neutral for something to register iirc.
Tapping one direction is practically impossible to do as quickly as QC. QC only works on the analog stick though, because you always have to return the c-stick to neutral for something to register iirc.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
Quarter circle DI seems inhumanly difficult to do. I haven't tried to practice it at all.
I actually try for smash DI. I think I usually get it. :/
I actually try for smash DI. I think I usually get it. :/
Insetick
Smash Apprentice
My reaction speed is too slow to SDI. 
B/c of this, I've made a habit of holding up whenever I'm hit. This saves me from most kill moves, but Usmashes wreck me.
B/c of this, I've made a habit of holding up whenever I'm hit. This saves me from most kill moves, but Usmashes wreck me.
Insetick, you sound like SelfPosessed, he does the same exact thing :O
It's not so much reaction speed as being prepared. When you realize that you're in an area where you can get hit by X move and it might kill you, go in prepared to DI in case that happens. Reaction speed is still a factor, but not one that will completely hold you back imo.
It's not so much reaction speed as being prepared. When you realize that you're in an area where you can get hit by X move and it might kill you, go in prepared to DI in case that happens. Reaction speed is still a factor, but not one that will completely hold you back imo.
SelfPossessed
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 170
I don't just hold straight up though. I use diagonals, so I tend to roll the analog stick a lot. The end result is that I accidentally SDI moves.
For example, I'm to the right of my opponent and doing a SH FF Bair. I jump and roll the analog from top left (approach in the air) to top right (retreat in the air) to bottom right (FF, I Cstick Bair here) to top right (DI purposes in case I get hit). This has helped me SDI stuff like MK's Fair because I'm constantly QCDIing.
In theory, diagonals really help online because it's hard to react to kill moves with the lag. I can't do it consistently online though as I can't time the FF in lag.
For example, I'm to the right of my opponent and doing a SH FF Bair. I jump and roll the analog from top left (approach in the air) to top right (retreat in the air) to bottom right (FF, I Cstick Bair here) to top right (DI purposes in case I get hit). This has helped me SDI stuff like MK's Fair because I'm constantly QCDIing.
In theory, diagonals really help online because it's hard to react to kill moves with the lag. I can't do it consistently online though as I can't time the FF in lag.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Is the retreating b-air spacing the best method for wolf to rack up damage? Or is this method kind of mostly for defense?
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
I wouldn't say a retreating bair is, at least not primarily. But Bair is definitely key to racking up damage. It's amazing that people get hit with it in the first place.
I'd also say that, from my experience, fair and uair actually rack up damage to, specially at low percents when you're juggling.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Nice. I was also thinking about how his down throw is actually a semi-spike and it can actually gimp your second jump if you jump early while hitting the ground. This is a really cheap tool for wolf to have IMO. Is it true his fair has the biggest hitbox in the game?
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
At high damage, DThrowing someone at the edge is deadly.
lol I dunno about that, but it's pretty massive.
Why do you ask? You interested in Wolf for a secondary?
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Kind of. My friend recently stopped using him and i always thought wolf would be dangerous in my hands lol. but yea i was thinking of pickin him up as a secondary. Either him or D3.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
I main Wolf and DDD. They're both fun to use. If you use Wolf, there's gonna be effort involved. He's one of those 'barely viable' characters. It all comes down to being a CG User's ***** and his crappy recovery. Get over those things, and you have a really good character.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
i know whatcha mean his recovery is bad in the fact that edgeguarding kills him and it has bad diagonal range. He also does tend to get CG and infinite a lot. Even so i believe he could be a fun and useful character. Now on to gather data and play more with him
.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Im having a reaaally hard time getting off the ledge vs MK.
All of wolfs get up options are beat by tornado, scarring is also, and if you try to ledgehop blaster, he can just PS and run the the ledge and bye bye wolf.
HALP
Thats the only part of the matchup that makes it really like severely MKs favor.
All of wolfs get up options are beat by tornado, scarring is also, and if you try to ledgehop blaster, he can just PS and run the the ledge and bye bye wolf.
HALP
Thats the only part of the matchup that makes it really like severely MKs favor.
vadgama
Smash Journeyman
One of my main concerns while playing wolf is wolf's f-air. Every time I use it I have ending lag once I hit the ground. Is there any way to prevent that?
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
Auto cancel it. As in, do the fair asap after you leave the ground. I keep my thumb over Y and A at the same time and roll from Y to A. Try that.
Arrows
Smash Journeyman
Just like that, Retreat it, follow up with a dsmash, fsmash, whatever you like.
Burntsocks, try rolling, jump > shine, or drop > uair? Last two are risky and only attempt them when you're pretty sure that they'll hit, but at least rolling gets you to the inside of the stage.
SelfPossessed
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 170
Rolling is terrible after 100% though. Same with ledge attack.
Are you blaster planking (ledge drop DJ blaster, DI away, side B onto ledge) until they get closer? Think of it like a weaker version of Yoshi egg camping at the ledge. Once they're closer, you can go for a scar or jump; 50/50 chance. Both options do not use your DJ (unless it's on FD, stupid lip), so if you guess wrong and get hit out of it you still have a chance at making it back. Recovering without a DJ is a death sentence.
If you go for the jump and they don't immediately hit you out of it, they'll probably try to follow you to where you land, so change directions in the air as needed (possibly with a blaster reversal) to prevent that. You should be able to avoid the Tornado; Shine or DJ away if it's too close. Or, if you get hit, SDI and Shine (though there is this Bowser thread that says mashing is better than SDI for escaping Tornado...). I tend to DI up and towards the stage when I jump in case I get hit.
If you go for the scar, try to do it so you immediately land after teleporting on stage. If you do ledgedrop and side B really early, try to cancel the side B so it's harder to get punished. On stages like BF and SV, you can also mix up your scar by delaying the side B slightly so you grab the ledge instead of scarring. Most people trying to punish scar run towards the center stage, so that gives you an opening to ledgedrop jump blaster back on.
There's also flashier stuff like telestep and lightstep. With telestep, you can cancel landing lag with a DJ or a special (Blaster, Shine if you can do it without scarring). The timing is similar to side B cancelling. Telestep requires using DJ offstage though, so it has a higher risk. Lightstep jump crossover is a flashier, less expected, but riskier version (again uses DJ) of ledgejump.
Wolf's ledge return options aren't that great.
Are you blaster planking (ledge drop DJ blaster, DI away, side B onto ledge) until they get closer? Think of it like a weaker version of Yoshi egg camping at the ledge. Once they're closer, you can go for a scar or jump; 50/50 chance. Both options do not use your DJ (unless it's on FD, stupid lip), so if you guess wrong and get hit out of it you still have a chance at making it back. Recovering without a DJ is a death sentence.
If you go for the jump and they don't immediately hit you out of it, they'll probably try to follow you to where you land, so change directions in the air as needed (possibly with a blaster reversal) to prevent that. You should be able to avoid the Tornado; Shine or DJ away if it's too close. Or, if you get hit, SDI and Shine (though there is this Bowser thread that says mashing is better than SDI for escaping Tornado...). I tend to DI up and towards the stage when I jump in case I get hit.
If you go for the scar, try to do it so you immediately land after teleporting on stage. If you do ledgedrop and side B really early, try to cancel the side B so it's harder to get punished. On stages like BF and SV, you can also mix up your scar by delaying the side B slightly so you grab the ledge instead of scarring. Most people trying to punish scar run towards the center stage, so that gives you an opening to ledgedrop jump blaster back on.
There's also flashier stuff like telestep and lightstep. With telestep, you can cancel landing lag with a DJ or a special (Blaster, Shine if you can do it without scarring). The timing is similar to side B cancelling. Telestep requires using DJ offstage though, so it has a higher risk. Lightstep jump crossover is a flashier, less expected, but riskier version (again uses DJ) of ledgejump.
Wolf's ledge return options aren't that great.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Ishey, roll gets hit by tornado. They arent standing next to the ledge that would be stupid, they stay around scar distance until they feel like tornadoing. it also hits you WHILE YOU ARE HANGING ON THE LEDGE.
Shine works i guess but since its the only safe option, and it does 3 damage, it really isnt risky for MK to use nado most of the time.
Ledgehop blaster is guarenteed automatic death, powershield and ledge hog.
This is a freaking big flaw lol its not something that can be shrugged off
Shine works i guess but since its the only safe option, and it does 3 damage, it really isnt risky for MK to use nado most of the time.
Ledgehop blaster is guarenteed automatic death, powershield and ledge hog.
This is a freaking big flaw lol its not something that can be shrugged off
shine can follow up with jab which is guaranteed for 12%
or you could be risky and got for the shine>jab 1>grab (not a true combo)
now you could be looking at 20%
i agree with you, there isnt really a reliable way to break nado but there isnt much
or you could be risky and got for the shine>jab 1>grab (not a true combo)
now you could be looking at 20%
i agree with you, there isnt really a reliable way to break nado but there isnt much
If he's that far away, maybe telestep > double jump? You can shine if he comes up after you with tornado and airdodge if he does anything else. If there are platforms in the way that just helps even more.
Idk lol, I get ***** by MK anyways xD You can't really avoid getting hit by tornado too often, you just gotta focus on getting out of it asap and finding a safe way to the ground. Or at least, I do, because I keep getting hit by it :<
Idk lol, I get ***** by MK anyways xD You can't really avoid getting hit by tornado too often, you just gotta focus on getting out of it asap and finding a safe way to the ground. Or at least, I do, because I keep getting hit by it :<
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
So, we have several awards for you. Most Ironic Post In SmashBoards. Most Ironic Post On The Net. Most Ironic Statement - Ever. Most Confusing Statement - Ever. Most Likely Wrong Statement Ever.Btw, WOLF UP-B BEATS THE TORNADO.
I lost the other five thousands trophies. Want me to send them by mail? Or should we just meet up at a tourney?
Real post: Huh?
It does, actually. But only if you hit the top part of the tornado. Too bad that even if you hit MK, he can either nair or uair you out of it ._.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
It means us bairing a lot in the air, often three or two times.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
If it only works on the top, I'm not interested. Blaster is far more effective. Now, if it worked INSIDE the tornado, my balls would explode.Asaph, Wolf UpB DOES beat the tornado. I'm NOT kidding. Try it out if you don't believe me.
Healer
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2009
- Messages
- 115
Thank you, okay now to my next question, how do u wolf flash (illusion) cancel, I press b twicebut sometimes it works nd sometimes it doesn't, is there an exact time/way to do it.
Arrows
Smash Journeyman
Healer, there is no exact way 
.
Learn it, I do it occasionally, and I don't really screw it up. I go for very short ones into dsmashes. Good mindgames.
.Learn it, I do it occasionally, and I don't really screw it up. I go for very short ones into dsmashes. Good mindgames.
D
Deleted member
Guest
its better into grab, at least at first, because most non-yoshi players reflex is to shield when in doubt.
Then next time you down smash cuz they spotdodge.
Then next time you down smash cuz they spotdodge.
Short cancel discussion, yayy
Short cancel is so beautiful. I've never had anyone predict a short cancel on stage. Very good to throw out when you can't be punished, keeps your opponent on their toes and makes them a bit more cautious when trying to predict your actions.
Also, for flash cancel, this is the post I used waaaaaay back when to learn the timing. Try it out: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4992103&highlight=cancel+timing#post4992103
Short cancel is so beautiful. I've never had anyone predict a short cancel on stage. Very good to throw out when you can't be punished, keeps your opponent on their toes and makes them a bit more cautious when trying to predict your actions.
Also, for flash cancel, this is the post I used waaaaaay back when to learn the timing. Try it out: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4992103&highlight=cancel+timing#post4992103
Arrows
Smash Journeyman
Ftilt is bad, if they shield it you're stuck in animation for 20 frames. Its okay sometimes though .
Spacing is attacking and deliberately creating space between you and opponent so they are unable/have a hard time punishing you.
CG with wolf? Really? Unless if you dthrow them onto a banana/against a wall, I have no idea.
MY QUESTION:
HOW THE EFF DO YOU DO A DASH ATTACK WITH A BANANA IN YOUR HAND. I"ve been trying to DACIT and i have no clue, anyone wanna explain?
.Spacing is attacking and deliberately creating space between you and opponent so they are unable/have a hard time punishing you.
CG with wolf? Really? Unless if you dthrow them onto a banana/against a wall, I have no idea.
MY QUESTION:
HOW THE EFF DO YOU DO A DASH ATTACK WITH A BANANA IN YOUR HAND. I"ve been trying to DACIT and i have no clue, anyone wanna explain?
as far as cg, doesnt existFtilt is bad, if they shield it you're stuck in animation for 20 frames. Its okay sometimes though
Spacing is attacking and deliberately creating space between you and opponent so they are unable/have a hard time punishing you.
CG with wolf? Really? Unless if you dthrow them onto a banana/against a wall, I have no idea.
MY QUESTION:
HOW THE EFF DO YOU DO A DASH ATTACK WITH A BANANA IN YOUR HAND. I"ve been trying to DACIT and i have no clue, anyone wanna explain?
and try the same motion as DACUS for DACIT, worked for me
Arrows
Smash Journeyman
You mean
Analog stick ->, Cstick down?
Analog stick ->, Cstick down?
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