Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[SSS]

That's super helpful! Thanks. Anybody else for any of the other questions?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Is there any interest in literally just going back through the social thread (and wherever else CJ posted them) to compile his various matchup guides into one thread? I read the DK one and it was pretty helpful, so I imagine the others would be similarly useful.

Of course, the main barrier is that I don't really know where most of said summaries are, due to not frequenting the boards all that much.

 

[ScareMl]

For SSS:
-ban Yoshi's against Lucario (he's broken there)
-as for separating ICs, I just watch for the desync. That's the easiest time for me to separate and then proceed to **** Nana. There are probably better ways, but I don't know much about the IC MU.
- if your opponent manages to get behind you, don't panic spotdodge everytime. smart opponents wait for this. do what smashkng said or just drop shield->turn around->reshield and then wait for their reaction.
-f-tilt and jab are both good anti air options, f-tilt has longer range but it's more of a commitment. f-tilt is good for platform pressure on stages such as BF.
- Can I counter Lucario's counter? lol

 

[SSS]

You can shield it. It's pretty derp.

 

[NeeBee]

////////::

 

[SSS]

Keep him away. He's going to keep trying to get inside your zoning, since he has such small range. He'll be trying to get around your sword, in really close where his hits can actually hit you. And since most of his things come out faster than yours, if he's up close he'll be able to get you before you get him. So just keep him away. He'll be trying to get in your face, getting up close and using Tjolts to get an opening. So just space and keep him away so his low-range attacks can't reach you, and watch out for his Fsmash (his best spacing tool) and his Tjolts (his projectile). You can keep him at bay with Fair, Dtilt, etc. Don't try to do anything too punishable. Even though a lot of Marth's moves come out quickly, they have quite a bit of ending lag, so watch out, because Pika punishes hard. Trying to gimp him off stage with Fair and Nair doesn't quite work, because of his Godly recovery. If you're trying to approach from the ground, Tjolt slows your progress significantly. If you trying to approach from the air, watch out for his wall of thunder that he will put up to block you. If he uptilts you, watch out for the Thunder kill follow up or his Uair. If he's recovering horizontally using a charged Skull Bash (his side-B), you could possibly try to jump up and counter it. . .just don't be stupid and get hit by it before you manage to counter. He's super light and super killable, so remember that. If you just keep the little rat at bay with your range, he can't get in. If he can't get into your zoning, he can't hurt you.

 

[C.J.]

Is there any interest in literally just going back through the social thread (and wherever else CJ posted them) to compile his various matchup guides into one thread? I read the DK one and it was pretty helpful, so I imagine the others would be similarly useful.

Of course, the main barrier is that I don't really know where most of said summaries are, due to not frequenting the boards all that much.

Ask me where things are and i can tell you which thread they're in. And, if you guys REALLY want me to, if you find the write-ups and generally format them, I'll update, revise, and finish any guides you want.

some1 just give me a basic run down of the pika mu

In depth write-up coming post MU chart FWIW

 

[reslived]

speaking of post MU chart... how far along is that?

 

[ぱみゅ]

It's been pretty slow.
Funny enough, the following phases will involve the panels that have been more inactive, so.... I don't think it's going to be done soon.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Hi.

What are Marth's good shield poking/safe-on-shield options? Sometimes my F-Airs may get shieldgrab because I do a poorly-spaced FFF-Air, but do Rising/Retreating F-Airs work to avoid shield grabs?

 

[Shaya]

Full hop retreating fairs are stronk.
Using your second jump whilst holding backwards flattens Marth's body in the air and gives you further time to retreat a bit before using an aerial that will be 'safer'.

Nair is Marth's best shield poke.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Sorry. Silly question, but- What does 'stronk' mean? @_@ I Google'd it, and I don't think those definitions are what you are referring to...

 

[C.J.]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stronk

#1

 

[light-zion]

CJ, is there any threads or post about the Wario and Falco MU?

 

[Ieven]

How Mr.r do these dash ? http://youtu.be/rQ_b1Il_owM?t=11s

Thanks !

 

[smashkng]

I think it's a fox trot into dash dance to change direction AKA pivot dash dance. So you just smash the control stick, then wait a slight bit of time, then smash the direction you're facing (BTW fox trots are bufferable) and immediately after change into the opposite direction. It's useful as Marth because he has a unique fox trot that for some reason shortens his dash distance.

 

[Roy Renard]

I have seen Mr. R. play a lot with Smashville's platform. How does he do that? I mean, going down through the platform and immediately get over it repeteadly?
Also, exactly on which characters can Marth chaingrab f-throws/d-throws to f-smash or any other moves?

 

[-LzR-]

When your feet touch the platform you must press Z+Down at the same time. Think of it like a smash input. It's not easy to do, but it's the best way to do so. For other forms of platform cancel that doesn't involve the instant drop, use the cstick instead of z.

 

[sGale]

When your feet touch the platform you must press Z+Down at the same time. Think of it like a smash input. It's not easy to do, but it's the best way to do so. For other forms of platform cancel that doesn't involve the instant drop, use the cstick instead of z.

You can do the drop-through with any shield input, and for just normal platform canceling, you can just hold down while jumping and let go while passing through.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I have seen Mr. R. play a lot with Smashville's platform. How does he do that? I mean, going down through the platform and immediately get over it repeteadly?
Also, exactly on which characters can Marth chaingrab f-throws/d-throws to f-smash or any other moves?

http://smashboards.com/threads/my-magical-personal-informational-etc-thread.332920/

Look here.

How Mr.r do these dash ? http://youtu.be/rQ_b1Il_owM?t=11s

Thanks !

Assuming you face right.

Dash right input -> Dash right input (Don't pause during the inputs).
Marth should do two dashes, then stop.

For what Mr.R does, he does.. assuming facing right..

Dash right input -> dash right input + dash left input and repeat.

 

[Roy Renard]

Aside from the infinite release grab, which are the possible follow-ups for grab releases/throws on Ness?

 

[smashkng]

90% of the answer to your GR question can be found here http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-and-the-grab-release.329897/

To complete the list we get fthrow Fsmash on Ness at 0% just like on everyone else. From Ground releases we have like tilts (Dtilt is very good out of ground release due to sending at a low angle). GR Fsmash and Dsmash are guaranteed too.

 

[reallyfastcar]

Hi I'm fairly new to Marth, just wondering if I should mainly you c-stick for aerials?

 

[vegeta18]

yes c-stick is good for aerials cuz you can space yourself with the joystick at the same time.

My question is how often should i fast fall? should i do it after like every single fair and jump that i do?

 

[Shaya]

Do what you think will not get you punished. If they're throwing something long and hits low to punish you then fast falling into shield could work, or you could be fast falling into a hitbox you'd otherwise avoid.

 

[Noh]

I'm new around here and also a Marth main. I just want to know goes on in your heads when playing against any character using Marth. Aside from matchup knowledge and experience. I'm looking for thought processes because the people I have played tell me obvious things like spacing my attacks, DI, and not to spot/air dodge excessively. I know that advice is very important but even if i improve those mentioned things. I have a feeling that wont help because I don't really look out or look or things because i don't know what to look out for of even look for! So when you guys play against any character what typically goes on in your minds? What do you guys look for and look out for? Everybody thinks in a different way so I would like to read what goes on in your guys minds!

 

[Shaya]

'Don't get hit by X'

"Oh he's probably going to do THIS after THAT" best try to get THAT to happen enough times to win the game.

 

[vegeta18]

The things he mentioned that everyone usually says like watch your spacing , DI, etc are things i am usually thinking about. When the match starts, i just think how i want to use my spacing as an advantage in the MU, the next thing is what moves i wanna look out for and what i want to punish.

Another thing i think about specifically against smaller range characters like luigi, is how do they plan on getting within my range? are they rolling forward, jumping with fireballs, etc. Once you frustrate your opponent with something, they will often look for some sort of way past that, try and pick up on their habits if this happens.

 

[1PokeMastr]

90% of the answer to your GR question can be found here http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-and-the-grab-release.329897/

To complete the list we get fthrow Fsmash on Ness at 0% just like on everyone else. From Ground releases we have like tilts (Dtilt is very good out of ground release due to sending at a low angle). GR Fsmash and Dsmash are guaranteed too.

*F-Throw Stutter Step Fsmash

 

[Osennecho]

So I'm still really new to competitive brawl and am just starting to try and learn things beyond what I've figured out myself/through seeing matches online and have 2 questions.

So my noob question: Can someone explain stutter stepping to me? Like the exact button input. I get what it is and what it can be used for, but I never intentionally implemented it into my game before and want to make sure I know the input before attempting to practice/do so.

My not so noob question: If (auto snapping?) the process in which a Marth falls from the ledge and jumps+up-bs to regrab the ledge with hardly any time in between to abuse invincibility frames of both the ledge and up-b is done perfectly on how many frames is he still vulnerable? Or even roughly how many frames? And are there any particular attacks to watch out for more than normal/others while doing doing this?

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Due to how Brawl was programmed, you can press the stick forward to initiate a dash and cancel that dash with a Forward Smash Attack just by keep the stick held and pressing A, or by using the C-stick, gaining some distance while performing it. That is a Stutter Step Smash.

nice avi btw

 

[BlueXenon]

When I play Marth, I have a hard time when my opponents directly attacks me, like mk's glide attack. Can someone please give me advice for this?

 

[Shaya]

MK's gliding is really hard to get around, it needs to be given a lot of respect otherwise you're going to get shafted.
The main things to MK's glide attack based on the skill of player is how they control the speed of it the glide + the height of them (and when they attack). An MK can attack you very close with glide attack near the top of your shield and not be punishable with grab/DS. Very close to the ground and near max range is also huge and has close to no lag.

While gliding is very versatile, the MK will be deciding where he'll be going usually before hand. So the question is, what are you doing before hand? Or, what is the position he's aiming for and how do you (probably incorrectly) react to it?

Holding your shield for a long time is a big no-no, and this is what the better controllers of glides will do; stall for extra shield pressure.

At a basic level, like with most moves/situations which require respect, your best bet is to reset to neutral. Rolling away at the right times is generally your safe, but if they know they're going to do that they'll adjust their glide to go further horizontally to still hit you. Hence, big emphasis on timing.

Furthermore, like a lot of moves that require respect, it is better not to try and punish glide attack, but what they chose to do after glide attack. Some MK's will auto dsmash trying to catch you with the frame trap / your whiffed grab (or other oos). If you continue to shield and get hit by the FRONT hit of dsmash, you get an easy punish. Better MKs will turn around and get the second hit of dsmash, which is punishable but dat shield push can ruin your fun. Same scenario but tilts, tilts are obviously safer and require respect. The two things you need to be careful of are forward roll and dash grab.

In contrast, what are you doing after being put in that situation? If you do dumb things like jump a smart MK will be shuttle looping you.

Your punishment options of glide attack itself will be coming from how comfortable you are and also with how much respect your opponent will give your shield when you use it correctly in these situations.

As gliding is so fast/versatile and glide attack comes out in only 5 frames, MKs will react to where you are/what you're doing and will prefer to see something first and then choose to attack. Stuff like b-reverse counter while in the air (So you slide away) gives you a little bit more safety than just regular counter but will require timing. If they think you're going to counter and just cancel their glide and shuttle loop you, you're ****ed though.

Depending on how comfortable you are with marth / your best moves with him you can try to beat MK's glide attack with nair, bair (from the ground usually) and super vertical position fair (so you're looking at the tipper of the last hit of fair hitting, which hits a little lower than mk's glide attack hits higher, although it still outranges fair so its iffy).

 

[C.J.]

Nair ***** glair. First hit clashes, second hit hits MK. If they try to stall out the glide, they just get hit by both.

Oh, and uair/usmash/utilt ofc

 

[BlueXenon]

Thankyou. I have very little marth experience because I am a mk main, but Marth is fun for me to use. I don't feel comfortable with him yet like I do with mk, but I will keep using him until I do.

 

[Shaya]

Was going to write something before, and now I'm in a stable spot I will anyway.

The reason why I didn't say "nair" so freely because although it is the best move in the universe and has a similar pattern here with Zero Suit's forward air which has been shown to be reallllly strong against glide attack is not so much the case for us. Reason being is that there are blind spots to neutral air and for us to challenge glide attack we need to be in the right vertical position to remain safe. What I learnt from M2K was that if you're approaching MK in the air while gliding with nair that they can go for the top of your head or for the tip of your legs. Nair only beats glide attack when the hitbox will clash with the first hit of nair.

Unfortunately first hit of nair is only out for like 2 frames. And the second hit comes out 8 or so frames later, which is more than the time it takes for MK to glide attack. Unlike nair, ZSS's fair has no hitbox blind spot that MK can get through.

 

[smashkng]

I've seen Mikeneko use Dtilt to combat an MK who tries to Glide into Marth from the ledge. Opinions on that? And how is Jab to combat Glide Attack? Isn't Up b also good if they Glide into you? It has pretty good horizontal range and he extends his hurtbox when he glide attacks, so if he hits you while you're invincible he usually continues forward unless he retreats it. PSing it usually allows an easy punish as well from my experience.

 

[Shaya]

The secret to dtilt is that it's maximum range occurs above the sword and the most "space" you have to tipper (without being close to the non-tipper hitboxes which have priority) occurs above your sword towards the end (think of how down smash tipper on slopes and whatnot). If you're down tilting for them being slightly above the ledge than you're winning out with a safer hitbox.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Was just talking to Raz about this, does footstool>dair connect well on Wario? I can't seem to get it in practice mode, but maybe it needs DI?

The idea is to grab Wario close to the ledge, run off under him, jump and footstool into spike.

Yes, I know we can just spike normally out of GR, but no.

No.

NO.

 

[SSS]

Was just talking to Raz about this, does footstool>dair connect well on Wario? I can't seem to get it in practice mode, but maybe it needs DI?

The idea is to grab Wario close to the ledge, run off under him, jump and footstool into spike.

Yes, I know we can just spike normally out of GR, but no.

No.

NO.

What's your issue with spiking normally?