Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Sylarius]

Hello mates.

I was watching Dany recently, vs an Ike, and I saw him SS fsmash and tipper it. What caught my attention is that it didn't seem like tipper spacing to me but it still tippered.

Now, there's a couple tipper spacings, for example the GR release on Wario is one of the spacings. Right when the sword touches the ground is another, that kind of thing. I don't know if it tippers all the way through the animation, but to me it seems like there's ~4 or 5 main tipper spots that are easiest to hit with. The very beginning, the end (where the sword touches the ground) Slightly above the ground on a midair small character, around the head on Snake, that sort of thing. I think you guys know what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, to my question. Dany was able to SS it and land the third tipper I mentioned, "around the head on Snake", except he did it on Ike. This spacing is far different than when you tipper with the sword tip right when it touches the ground. It is very easy for me to tipper with the sword on the ground section, and somewhat for the "sword slightly above the ground, most noticeable on small opponents" (e.g. Fthrow SS fsmash on G&W) but I'm so used to the spacing I keep talking about where the sword touches the ground when it tips. Is there any advice you guys can give me to learn the tipper spacing that Dany was able to execute?

This is what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbYqY5fZ3zI#t=698s


EDIT: For dair spike on MK's grab release, to buffer the dash correctly I must press side then let it back to neutral within the buffer window, then side outside the buffer window to continue the dash, correct?

EDIT 2: I'm having a bit of difficulty buffering spotdodge out of falling fair as well, probably just me, I can DB out of it fine though, just not spotdodge.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I always had that impression, it seems to work sometimes with taller characters. I am yet to test it but yeah, it has happenned to me before.

 

[Shaya]

You can untipper fair ROB at the same distance as an fsmash will tipper.
Various animations move hurtboxes etc etc

 

[Sylarius]

Various animations move hurtboxes etc etc

Yes yes, I know that. I forget whether it's G&W's dsmash or key, but it can only hit Wario through the platform on BF if he's in one of his idle animations (where he leans back and extends arms a bit) for example.

 

[-LzR-]

What do you think of the MK MU now? Has it changed to a bit better now?

 

[C.J.]

No- it's still -1 as always.

He outranges us, we outdisjoint him, % wise we live a little longer than him, we poke each other well, we can both get ridiculous advantages while the other is on the ledge, we can juggle each other, etc etc.

It's a fairly close MU and comes down to MK's gimping/better juggling vs us getting GR->dair or an early tipper fsmash kill. It just so happens that MK's are more likely to happen.

 

[-LzR-]

All right so my mentality should be avoiding being grabbed as much as I can? The releases actually hurt...

 

[Shaya]

we outdisjoint him,

wait what?

 

[C.J.]

That's what you or Pierce said forever ago when I asked for a description of the MU
._.

 

[Pierce7d]

I rarely score early K.O.s in the match, and at higher levels, the better player wins, with the occassional gimp causing the MU to lean into MKs favor. Marth is better at neutral, where MK is better at advantage, or getting out of disadvantage. You shouldn't get gimped, and MK shouldn't be getting frequently tipper Fsmashed.

 

[Shaya]

That's what you or Pierce said forever ago when I asked for a description of the MU
._.

Our down smash out disjoints his dtilt. That's about it

It's something like

MK Ftilt > MK Fsmash > Marth shield breaker > MK down smash > marth down smash > mk dtilt

 

[Sylarius]

Is Nair Fsmash a true combo? Nair Usmash? Nair DB? Nair Grab? Nair utilt?

 

[ScareMl]

is ff u-air to u-smash guaranteedat 0%? it seems like ff-uair strings at 0 are really good.

 

[Pierce7d]

In terms of hitstun, at low percents, Nair is a linker, and will true combo into Fsmash. First hit Nair will combo into USmash at most percents. DB is also an option, and Utilt is a fine option at kill percent.

Yes. FFUair is an excellent combo starter. It combos into the vast majority of Marth's moveset. Unless your opponent has mastered DIing it, Nair is the best follow up, because it doesn't end the combo.

 

[Sylarius]

Oh, damn. I meant first hit nair fastfalled into the ground. :< sorry I didn't state it.

 

[Pierce7d]

It doesn't have to be Fast-Falled.

 

[Sylarius]

Alright. So all of them are guaranteed, then? The only one that I'm unsure about is Usmash.

 

[Pierce7d]

At most percents yes.

 

[Sylarius]

Alright, thank you.

 

[ScareMl]

how does mike do that pivot grab at 1:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJSgwX_wtBA&feature=g-vrec

like he slides. i can only slide pivot grab after i dash, otherwise i do a pivot grab but don't slide. how does he do it so immediately and still slide?

 

[Jeos]

dash -> grab -> turn around (all of it almost instantly)

 

[Haze~]

how does mike do that pivot grab at 1:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJSgwX_wtBA&feature=g-vrec

like he slides. i can only slide pivot grab after i dash, otherwise i do a pivot grab but don't slide. how does he do it so immediately and still slide?

What he did there was dash to the left then immediately after, right + grab

edit I believe it's called pivot boost grab

 

[C.J.]

The same way Leon does it at :20

It's just a pivot grab done really quickly. Get faster.

Or you could do it the boring way and press one way on the analog stick while hitting the c-stick in the opposite direction while pressing Z. If you do it *essentially* frame perfectly, you pivot grab without moving.

Also, a boost pivot grab is what Falco does to CG you back and forth in the same spot. It's a pivot grab boosted by a dash attack. Just like every other boost X action.

This is really just a pivot grab and it's just done really really quickly. Not that hard.

 

[Ayce God]

yes cj is right. there two types of pivots the one most common where you run past the person and grab them then theres what mike and leon did in this vid which is the true pivot grab if done perfectly you get the slide and almost double the grab range . its hard mastering the timing but its worth it. *continues watching vid of leon getting owned*

 

[Shaya]

Our down smash out disjoints his dtilt. That's about it

It's something like

MK Ftilt 3 hit > MK Fsmash > mk ftilt > Marth shield breaker > MK down smash > marth down smash > mk dtilt

Oh yeah something that I kinda forgot although it was in the back of my memory somewhere -

Marth's 3rd (and I think 4th) hits of dancing blade downwards out disjoint MK fsmash

Marth's nair and bair outdisjoint mk's aerials completely.

 

[Pierce7d]

if he did a sliding pivot grab from a grounded position, it was most likely a dash attack cancelled pivot grab. Due to studderstep mechanics, you have to wait a few frames before performing some actions out of a dash, but a dash attack can be instantly executed with cstick down, and instantly cancelled into a grab or pivot grab.

 

[ScareMl]

if he did a sliding pivot grab from a grounded position, it was most likely a dash attack cancelled pivot grab. Due to studderstep mechanics, you have to wait a few frames before performing some actions out of a dash, but a dash attack can be instantly executed with cstick down, and instantly cancelled into a grab or pivot grab.

so instantly after cancelling dash attack, i have to hit c-stick+ shield?

 

[C.J.]

Or you could do it the really easy way like I said above.

analog stick one way, c-stick+z the opposite

 

[Pierce7d]

If memory serves me correctly, the way I do it is
joystick one way, cstick down, joystick the other way, grab input. All actions are canceled except grab, so this input is done fluidly and as quickly as possible.

I have never tried C-Stick + Z the opposite way, but it makes sense.

 

[ScareMl]

im not getting the slide unless i dash for a while with c-stick +z. im pivot grabbing, but not sliding for short distances. Jeos way worked in the short distance slide, but since i play with wiimote+nunchuk, that's not a really viable option either. too difficult because i have to do all the inputs with my left hand.

 

[Jeos]

actually, I worked the long distance slide, unless there is another longer one.

I've tried the one with the c-stick and it's the same I get using the metod I posted earlier.

to clear it a little, think like doing a b-reversed move, but instead of b, use z (or grab input), its just joystick one way, grab then joystick the other way, the last two inputs must within a 5 frame window, if not, you perform a normal pivot grab.

its easy when you get the feel of it, you can do it with shield+A too, its all about the right timing

 

[ScareMl]

no Jeos, im saying your method worked fine, i slid like i wanted, but since i play wiimote+nuncuk, the controls are kinda awkward, since all the inputs have to be done with my left hand on the nunchuk haha i'll try doing it faster with the c-stick +z method though

 

[Jeos]

it's possible to beat (not trade) D3's Bair horizontaly? without relying on SB though.

I just can't get any farther on tournaments because of him!, so I wanted to know if it's possible to beat him in the air.

time to memorize neo's guide

officially hating D3

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

I think if you are a little below DDD, you can bair him because of bair's range and disjoint. Don't quote me on that though.

 

[C.J.]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=311118&

 

[Jeos]

does someone know where can I find some reliable frame data about shielding?

I mean, I know that shield goes up in 1 frame and shieldrop takes 7 frames, but I found somewhere that the shieldrop animation has IASA frames, so I'm taking a look at that possibility to apply to my gameplay

thanks in advance

 

[Shaya]

shield drop IASA frames allows you to jump, spot dodge, roll, etc etc (so in shield drop frames you can do out of shield options)

frames 1-3 of shielding is power shielding.
you can't drop your shield until the 7th frame after shielding.

 

[Jeos]

so basically there are no frames when dropping a shield in order to take shield options after 7 frames?

that include only when inputing a shield? or also when the shield takes a hit?

 

[Labernash]

How do I play Marth?

 

[Zano]

put a ****load of effort into him.