Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Tbagz]

Easier ways to KO my oponnents at lower percentage? ive only been using marth for a few days but i feel like waiting for them to screw up and punish can take too long, and bulling off a forward smash tipper in the heat of battle i feel is too risky.

And tips on how to improve my pressure game?

all comments appreciated thanks!


~~Tbagz.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

Easier ways to KO my oponnents at lower percentage? ive only been using marth for a few days but i feel like waiting for them to screw up and punish can take too long, and bulling off a forward smash tipper in the heat of battle i feel is too risky.

And tips on how to improve my pressure game?

It's one of Marth's problem that he really doesn't have an easy and reliable way to kill as early as other top tier characters. Your best bet is getting good at landing tipper Fsmashes, but I hesitate to give that advice to a new Marth main, as everyone always smash spams at first. Really, if you aren't willing to wait until you are sure you can get the kill with a safe, tipper aerial, I'm afraid Marth may not be best for you.

As for your other question, pressuring with Marth is a matter of hitting with the tips of your moves. You can SH (FF) Fair and Nair well out of most characters' punishment ranges, so I advise getting good at spacing those aerials. If you can space them right, most characters can really only shield and take it, or try to guess what combination of Fair, Nair, Uair, and Fast Falling you will do and hope they get it right.

 

[Tbagz]

It's one of Marth's problem that he really doesn't have an easy and reliable way to kill as early as other top tier characters. Your best bet is getting good at landing tipper Fsmashes, but I hesitate to give that advice to a new Marth main, as everyone always smash spams at first. Really, if you aren't willing to wait until you are sure you can get the kill with a safe, tipper aerial, I'm afraid Marth may not be best for you.

As for your other question, pressuring with Marth is a matter of hitting with the tips of your moves. You can SH (FF) Fair and Nair well out of most characters' punishment ranges, so I advise getting good at spacing those aerials. If you can space them right, most characters can really only shield and take it, or try to guess what combination of Fair, Nair, Uair, and Fast Falling you will do and hope they get it right.

thanks so much for the advice! i can wait to tipper, ive been really practicing zoning everytime i play, but i was just wondering if there was a more efficiant technique. thanks again

 

[ScareMl]

dolphin slash is really good, it sends some way offstage and opens more options. just don't miss... and don't stale out your f-smash until kill % so if you have to punish, use dancing blade and save your f-smash for killing. and last but not least, learn your spacing because tippered nair is your strongest and most effiecient aerial. not only can it kill at like 90% against people with bad DI, if they shield it, you can retreat your landing slightly and f-smash. watch mikehaze he utilizes it very well.

and what masterofgalaxies said isn't quite right...youre not gonna kill with tipper f-smash most of the time lol, don't try landing it with every f-smash you do. practice the tippered nair instead.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

Generally, if I hit with tipper Fsmash, it'll kill (unless out of fthrow at 0%), but maybe I'm waiting too long to try and hit with it. I'm not the best Marth out there. =/
The tipper nair is really good to practice all around in any case though. Another thing about dolphin slash: unless you're uber pro like Mr R or mikeHaze or someone, it's pretty much always best to use when the opponent attacks and you shield. You can just hit upB while shielding and the opponent is close enough, and because it gives you a little invincibility at the start it goes right through their attack and hits them.

 

[ScareMl]

just remember the tip of marth's sword is not that large, and unless you're super lucky, most of your f-smashes are NOT going to be tippers. that being said, if you have good spacing, you can set up the tipper only if the situation fits (like retreating tippered nair to f-smash). and if you want to get a kill, d-smash actually isn't all that bad cuz marth's don't use it much so you have the element of surprise. it's also your fastest smash, so it's good to throw in when your opponent is around 120% (unless it's snake, because that ******* lives so long he'll need to be like 160 or 170%). but yes, don't underestimate DS, it's good for oos and punishes

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

Actually, I have a question about the Snake match-up. If he's using the shorter, closer grenade tosses when I try to SH at him with stuff, what shoudl I do? Take the grenade and hope I hit him before it blows up, or instant throw it back at him and back out, or what?

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Is there any use for a JC Counter(I think it's called that, I'm referring to doing a SH and immediately buffering a Counter so you rise very slightly off the ground, your vertical momentum is canceled by Counter and you fall down)?

 

[ScareMl]

Actually, I have a question about the Snake match-up. If he's using the shorter, closer grenade tosses when I try to SH at him with stuff, what shoudl I do? Take the grenade and hope I hit him before it blows up, or instant throw it back at him and back out, or what?

sorry i don't have much experience with the snake matchup. maybe someone else could help you? but don't SH him unless it's retreating. if you mess up he'll punish with u-tilt and if you're over 100%, that means 1 stock. i full hop just to be safe

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

Well, at least that's something. Don't SH vs Snake or you'll eat a (an?) utilt. I have practically no match-up knowledge other than what I've read (No tourneys in STL =P ), and us smashers aren't the most organized and concise writers about that kind of stuff. I kinda know the Falco match-up because a friend plays Falco, but really nothing else. I once got perfectly (as in, did 0% to him) 3 stocked by a random ICs because I didn't know how to dodge the grab then. XP

@ Destiny Warrior
I don't really think you should use that, mostly because you shouldn't Counter much. Only when you're totally sure they'll attack should you Counter, and when you're totally sure it generally is because they are being too obvious when you're getting up from the ledge, which is no time to be short hopping, especially when a normal Counter works just as well. The only other application I could think of is to fake out someone you're juggling who has a good dair, but even than Marth has so many other good choices it doesn't make much sense to SH cancel Counter.

 

[C.J.]

Wait like... 20 hours for Snake questions.

No there is no point for a JC Counter except maybe it's easier to B-reverse/wavebounce the counter?

 

[ScareMl]

oh your snake MU thread's almost done? yay can't wait

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

What is "clawing?" I've heard it referred to many times, and that it makes some things easier, but what is it? Is it a way of button mashing or something?

 

[Reizilla]

It generally refers to moving your thumb down to the c-stick and your pointer finger to the face buttons (A/B/X/Y) so that you can use both simultaneously.

 

[ScareMl]

guys i had a question regarding stage textures. i followed the directions from this site

http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...07#post7304207

and i created that directory the private>wii>...>melee and i downloaded the textures (which were in folders) from brawl vault, but i didn't know what to do from there?????? and it asked me to download gecko os and codemanager, but i didn't do that cuz i already have gecko and the RSBE01.gct code from downloading infinite replay hack. is that the same gecko and code?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'm pretty sure this is not the place to ask about that...

Spoiler

you enabled the Texture patch Code?
did you change the name of the downloads to their apropiate one to make the change?
There's many reasons why it is not working... If you have any problem, try PM me.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Wait like... 20 hours for Snake questions.

No there is no point for a JC Counter except maybe it's easier to B-reverse/wavebounce the counter?

Theoretically jc counter is only worth oos, 5 jump frames compared to 7 drop frames. You're right that it is useless, in the situations DS would beat incoming hitboxes

 

[Tbagz]

Stages marth has an overall dis-advantage on?

stages i should look to pick against my opponnents so my pressure game is ****?

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

A lot of it is personal preference, but Marth doesn't really have any stage that is horrible for him. I personally dislike FD, but it's usually best to ban stages your opponent is good on rather than what you're bad on as Marth. Some really good stages for Marth are Battlefield, because of all the platfroms that help recovery, mobility, and your juggling, and Brinstar, because of all the gimmicks with tippers on the stage's hitboxes, the platforms that help your ledge traps when flipped outwards, the close edges that boost Marth's rather mediocre (compared to other high tiers) killing, the acid that can save you when Marth's average recovery doesn't, and the stage angles that make your landings with aerials safer.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Actually, Marth depends a lot on the ledges, so you might want to avoid Rainbow Cruise against certain characters with good aerial game unless you want to get catch during the lag of your Dolphin Slash, which even if it is a small part, it might hurt, a lot.

 

[PEACE7]

Dolphin slash has like 30 frames or so of landing lag I believe. Plenty of time to get ***** when you miss with it.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

Even if you catch the ledge after a dolphin slash, you get ridiculous RCO lag when you land next, so you're pretty screwed anyways.

 

[HFlash]

Any thoughts on a good secondary? I was thinking either fox or falco (to cover the DDD matchup) especially falco since he is soooooooooo much easier to learn than marth.

 

[ScareMl]

Even if you catch the ledge after a dolphin slash, you get ridiculous RCO lag when you land next, so you're pretty screwed anyways.

uh...you do realize an aerial before landing cancels most of it? c'mon, you gotta learn the marth basics


and peace, iirc marth has 35 frames of landing lag. fuuuuuuuuu

Goliath, i asked this same question a little while earlier, and most people suggested that marth is a character we can solo main, we just gotta learn the MU's for DDD and Diddy really well, and CJ has created guides for both of them. but falco would be a good pick.

p.s. idk how to quote multiple ppl so if this looks weird...lol

 

[Tbagz]

see heres my thing, and if someone could please explain it i would really be appreciative, i understand hitboxes, frames, distance, DI. but how do you know marths dolphin slash has "30" frames/ hit boxes, very confused!

 

[Jeos]

that's not hitboxes, they're frames, 35 frames of landing lag if you land without an aerial after grabing the ledge or being hit while in helpless state resulting from doing an UpB

that's a glitch marth suffers as many other characters known as RCO lag, well, marth is the second most affected with his up to 35 frames of extra landing lag, but there's a way to diminish this to almost nothing and consist on landing doing an aerial so you land with the aerial landing lag.

that's marth basics so you should read some info if you didn't know this,

 

[ぱみゅ]

^Small, small side-note: RCO stands for "Recovery Carry-Over", so the idea is clear.

The best way to avoid RCO is by landing while performing an aerial or special attack (D-air is obviously not worthy, and DS will do nothing to help...), also, the RCO itself wil be very low if you land after a short hop, and without a Fast fall.
Don't quote me on those last tips, though, I was doing my own experiments when I had to hand over my Brawl disc, so I couldn't keep on experimenting any further...

 

[C.J.]

^Small, small side-note: RCO stands for "Recovery Carry-Over", so the idea is clear.

The best way to avoid RCO is by landing while performing an aerial or special attack (D-air is obviously not worthy, and DS will do nothing to help...), also, the RCO itself wil be very low if you land after a short hop, and without a Fast fall.
Don't quote me on those last tips, though, I was doing my own experiments when I had to hand over my Brawl disc, so I couldn't keep on experimenting any further...

It's 35 frames for a "soft" landing and 60 frames for a "hard" landing iirc.

Landing with a special move doesn't get rid of RCO lag- it just puts it off until the next time you land. Landing with an aerial takes your aerial landing lag and doubles it (according to NEO) which is still a lot less than the RCO lag itself.

 

[Zankoku]

As far as I can tell, RCO's flag just disables the ability to IASA.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's why I said not to quote me on that...

man, I've been doing Aerial Dacing Blades for nothing

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

@ScareMI - I know how to cancel RCO lag.
I was referring to the fact that you have to do an aerial when you land, and as far as I knew it was the only way to lessen the RCO lag. If your opponent knows this, dashing into a shield to punish your aerial is really easy, especially as you'll be coming up from a ledge. Generally, it just sucks to be on a ledge for Marth, but it is worse to have to land directly on the stage.

 

[ScareMl]

@ScareMI - I know how to cancel RCO lag.
I was referring to the fact that you have to do an aerial when you land, and as far as I knew it was the only way to lessen the RCO lag. If your opponent knows this, dashing into a shield to punish your aerial is really easy, especially as you'll be coming up from a ledge. Generally, it just sucks to be on a ledge for Marth, but it is worse to have to land directly on the stage.

alright, i thought you didn't know, but my apologies.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

No it's ok. It's my fault for not clarifying my whole meaning in my first comment.

 

[ScareMl]

guys, i played a bowser today (first time ever) and the bowser player doesn't even main him (just plays for fun), and i got owned game 1. how do i stop his grab and spin off stage suicide thing?

 

[Oblivion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gvtT8cKd2Xk#t=91s

How does Mike do that dancing blade?

 

[C.J.]

It's just a wavebounce.
Forward-> back-> forward special.

 

[Jeos]

actually, is forward-> backward special-> forward again very fast

 

[Oblivion]

Thanks, it seems like it has a lot of potential in mixups.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So Nike and I are teaming for APEX and I was wondering if any of you had any experience teaming with a D3 that you could share. Just trying to get as much info/insight as possible from all reliable sources. I'd like to do the best I can with him at this event :D

Also lol Oblivion I see you bro.

 

[C.J.]

Be prepared to carry him, TC.