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[KoRoBeNiKi]

:O

Those 2 are quite the members. Thanks for the info Koro. If anyone ever did accumulate all titles they should get freakin' rainbow coloured text or something.

Because smash is like this

 

[th3kuzinator]

Kawaii snake...great.

 

[F-Tier Player]

This question came up: Why can Ness repick a stage if taken to Saffron City in the 1st round of a match?
I thought maybe it had to do with his recovery in between buildings? Can someone confirm this?

 

[ballin4life]

That's the stated reason. I don't really agree with it though.

 

[asianaussie]

If he loses his second jump between buildings he cannot recover as the thunder ball can't go all the way around. Pretty meh rule, not as if he was gonna recover without some sort of angle reversal/sweetspot anyway...

 

[ciaza]

Most of the time I die like that it's because of my own stupid fault anyway. I think the rule should be abolished. MAYBE SOMETHING FOR THE BROOM TO DISCUSS

:O

 

[Sempiternity]

Bleh, it's a good rule, and shouldn't be abolished. No other character completely 100% loses their Up+B recovery between the buildings on Saffron.

The fact that it's a guarantee that Ness will plummet to his death should say something about the legitimacy of that rule and why it was created in the first place. Sure, Ness will most likely be edgeguarded to his death in any other situation on any other ledge, but at least there is a slim chance of recovery.

 

[asianaussie]

i think saffron is already banned in the WC ruleset

its not exactly what you would call a 'balanced' stage, and it's easier and arguably more lucrative to camp on than hyrule for some characters

 

[The Star King]

IDK who conceived that rule, but it's a moronic one because:

-The rule states that if random is used and random selects Saffron City, a player using Ness can request a repick. However, random isn't even allowed to be used for choosing the stage in tournament unless both players agree to it, in which case the Ness player knows the risks he's taking by agreeing to random and has no right to complain.
-If Ness is forced to recover with his up-b from below, he should never be able recover succesfully on other stages anyways (vs. a competent opponent), so Saffron itself doesn't ruin his already worthless recovery.
-I don't think Ness would even be that much worse on Saffron City. The layout of the stage aids Ness's great defense against aerial approach from above, and he can possibly often combo to low % percent dair kills into the pits of the stage (has to be careful of wasting his double jump though). However, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very experienced with Saffron City, so I'm not too sure about this one.

 

[th3kuzinator]

IDK who conceived that rule, but it's a moronic one because:

-The rule states that if random is used and random selects Saffron City, a player using Ness can request a repick. However, random isn't even allowed to be used for choosing the stage in tournament unless both players agree to it, in which case the Ness player knows the risks he's taking by agreeing to random and has no right to complain.
-If Ness is forced to recover with his up-b from below, he should never be able recover succesfully on other stages anyways (vs. a competent opponent), so Saffron itself doesn't ruin his already worthless recovery.
-I don't think Ness would even be that much worse on Saffron City. The layout of the stage aids Ness's great defense against aerial approach from above, and he can possibly often combo to low % percent dair kills into the pits of the stage (has to be careful of wasting his double jump though). However, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very experienced with Saffron City, so I'm not too sure about this one.

I mostly agree with this, but on other stages a Ness can recover if reverse ledge DI is used. There is only about a 5% chance of recovering, but at least it is better than 0%. Ness does fine on saffron anyway imo, but his recovery is severely limited

 

[The Star King]

Just hit Ness after he passes the ledge so that ledge DI is impossible (or before he passes the ledge if he's recovering from really low), or force him him to land and punish his massive landing lag. Anyways, my first point is the most important one, and I don't see how one could argure against it.

P.S. I could see Ness suffering badly from helipad camping, but he's definitely not the only one.

 

[ballin4life]

Kirby + helipad =

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

yo.

i'm on keyboard for a little bit, but i want to get good at using the kb too.

someone tell me the best setup or the best to get good with the keyboard?

 

[dandan]

there isn't anything you can define as best, you can just ask for the mappings and see if one fits you well.
i move with the right hand, so mine is pretty much switched from other guys, it is also pretty cramped because i used to play with my friend on the same keyboard for years, and we needed space (yay for buttons not working).
anyhow, here is my mapping:
i use the numpad for movement (2,4,6,8)
then i use the arrow keys for the moves:
up is grab
down is shield
left is a
right is b
i use left ctrl for a c button (pushing it with my pinky)
and most importatnly, taunt is right shift.

hope i helped you (though i am guessing my mapping isn't for most).

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

testing that, feels weird but i digress.

edit: i have to say dandan, this actually a pretty nice setup.

 

[Sempiternity]

ShootingStar, you're assuming that Ness has 0% chance for recovery on any stage. To err is human, and people make mistakes, so Ness still has a chance of surviving. It might just be 5%, but I'll take that any day over 0%.

Also, if you're really proficient with Ness's recovery, it's possible to sweetspot low enough not to get hit. Sure, it's ridiculously hard to do it, but hey, the possibility is there...

But yeah, your first point does make sense, but it could be a situation where the Ness player would like to choose a random stage EXCLUDING Saffron. Melee and Brawl have that option, I believe, to remove stages from the random selection, and this rule is a way of implementing that in SSB64.

 

[The Star King]

If you're sweetspotting from below, it's really obvious, and the opponent is given like a million years to edgehog you. Besides, Ness may have a small chance of recovery on other stages while none on Saffron, but my point is that the difference is small, and so it's not that huge of a disadvantage for Ness.

And if you're going to argue that it's comparable to removing stages from what random can select in Melee or Brawl, why is this option only available for just one character, for just one stage? It makes it seem like Ness on Saffron especially stands out as the worst possible character-stage combination, which it's not.

 

[th3kuzinator]

What do you guys think of this?

Forcing Dreamland as the only nuetral and then giving Peach's, kongo, saffron, and hyrule as counterpicks while also giving both players/teams 1 counterstage pick to ban.

Of course then this only leaves 3 stages, but I think it could work.

Probably something for the Broom to discuss like ciaza said.

 

[The Star King]

Was that in response to my post?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

what about battlefeild?

it's a neutral, you just need the code, etc. etc.

 

[th3kuzinator]

It actually wasn't a respond to your post. I was thinking of this topic previously, and the mention of removal of stages prompted me to post it. off topic IK, but I just wanted to ask the community about it.

 

[The Star King]

GS stages have never been allowed so I don't see why you claim it's a neutral.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

because its a...neutral? lol.

isn't neutral stages the ones without obstacles and on a fairly flat surface?
(i.e hyrule temple)

unless there's another lingo for neutral, i don't really see why battlefeild is not neutral.

 

[The Star King]

Neutrals are stages approved for use as the first stage of a tournament set. I've never seen a tournament where Battlefield was allowed.

 

[th3kuzinator]

because its a...neutral? lol.

isn't neutral stages the ones without obstacles and on a fairly flat surface?
(i.e hyrule temple)

unless there's another lingo for neutral, i don't really see why battlefeild is not neutral.

Since when did hyrule not have obstacles? the tornado of death plagues that stage w/o end.

It is not that flat as well.

I support dreamland as being the only neutral, though many people (cough fox players) want to keep Hyrule neutral as well.

About FD, and battlefield. It could work. BROOM is needed for this I think.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

well.. tornados are ok (i personally have the code where i shut them off :F) but they're very avoidable and whatnot.

in brawl (and i apologize for moving to brawl more then smash) neutrals are considered as [fairly]flat, some obstacles. (i.e norfair is permitted as a cp.)


but yeah, BRoom needs discussion of this.

edit: @star

ah. i c.

 

[The Star King]

I would support a Hyrule-Kongo-Dreamland, but I guess that's something for the BRoom to discuss.

@Supa if that was the definition of a neutral then stuff like Mushroom Kingdom would be neutral.

I'm out, time for my afternoon nap (wut)

 

[th3kuzinator]

question:

what is the advantage of using the weak hitbox during mario and luigi uair chains?

I know there is reduced knock-back enabling you continue your combo farther, but there also seems to be reduced hit stun which makes it seem the technique may hurt more than it helps.

Can i get a confirmation/explanation of the concept behind weak hitboxes?!

 

[ballin4life]

Weak uair leads into usmash a lot better than strong uair does usually.

If you're worried about letting them get out of hitstun then only do weak uairs when you yourself are close to the ground so that you can zcancel and instantly continue the combo (ie reduce your own attack lag)

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

it's just to continue the combo for extra damage or being in a better position for more UAIRS

 

[Dsc]

well.. tornados are ok (i personally have the code where i shut them off :F)

Give. Me. Now.

 

[Battlecow]

First of all, there are times where that saffron thing really cramps Ness' style- say you had to jump down there and spike someone, for instance, and you couldn't get back up. That being said, his Utilt-Dair over teh pits is too good. All in all I think it's an unnecessary rule.

And guys, why do we need a BR to discuss these things? Would discussing them here (or making a topic) be that much worse? Why?

 

[Sempiternity]

Oooo, Battlecow raises a good point for the Ness recovery discussion. Nearly every character (except Jiggs) has combo opportunities off stage that require the use of an Up+B to recover. Ness is not going to be edgeguarded during every situation where he's recovering; he could've just finished a DJC chain ended with a spike, and is getting back on the stage while the opponent is KO'd. On Saffron, Ness loses that combo potential, and must adjust how he combos over the pits, whereas every other character doesn't (really) have to.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Oooo, Battlecow raises a good point for the Ness recovery discussion. Nearly every character (except Jiggs) has combo opportunities off stage that require the use of an Up+B to recover. Ness is not going to be edgeguarded during every situation where he's recovering; he could've just finished a DJC chain ended with a spike, and is getting back on the stage while the opponent is KO'd. On Saffron, Ness loses that combo potential, and must adjust how he combos over the pits, whereas every other character doesn't (really) have to.

Its just something yoy have to watch out for.

If u FF a dair down then ur just playing stupid. The only other combo ness has off stage that would matter in this situation is an fair chain to extended double jump dair. This is tough to do because of the stage itself, and if you can do it then I would suggest from refraining on that stage. Honestly if you play ness you know what you are getting yourself into. The stage OBVIOUSLY has some disadvantages for ness but the argument about whether those are enough to abolish the rule needs more discussion.

Also bcow, if you dont support the backroom and what it stands for, why are you applying to get in?

 

[ballin4life]

Oooo, Battlecow raises a good point for the Ness recovery discussion. Nearly every character (except Jiggs) has combo opportunities off stage that require the use of an Up+B to recover. Ness is not going to be edgeguarded during every situation where he's recovering; he could've just finished a DJC chain ended with a spike, and is getting back on the stage while the opponent is KO'd. On Saffron, Ness loses that combo potential, and must adjust how he combos over the pits, whereas every other character doesn't (really) have to.

The spike pits make it way easier for ness to finish combos anyway.

 

[Battlecow]

Its just something yoy have to watch out for.

If u FF a dair down then ur just playing stupid. The only other combo ness has off stage that would matter in this situation is an fair chain to extended double jump dair. This is tough to do because of the stage itself, and if you can do it then I would suggest from refraining on that stage. Honestly if you play ness you know what you are getting yourself into. The stage OBVIOUSLY has some disadvantages for ness but the argument about whether those are enough to abolish the rule needs more discussion.

Also bcow, if you dont support the backroom and what it stands for, why are you applying to get in?

If decisions are being made, I'd like to be a part of them. If there has to be a Backroom, I'd hate to be unable to see what was in it. If decisions are being made about the community in there, it's my duty to help make the ones I think are best.

That makes it sound overdramatic, but really, I'm still against the BR and I'm on damage control now. Frankly, with Surri presiding I don't fancy my chances, but I don't see it as hypocritical to try to apply to something you didn't want. If a king wants to keep a monarchy and it's not going his way, isn't it still the right thing to do for him to run for president?
--
A completely different point, given a space because I didn't want to double-post:

Hello, and welcome to the first of many "Help battlecow play on controller" sessions. Recently, I've been trying to make the switch, and I heard that 6-85 (deadzone-range) was about right. I tried it, and for some reason had a huge amount of trouble dashing at will, doing standard combos, and a host of other things. I went up to 0-100 (lol me) and things seem to get marginally better. I had a firm stick (sigh) so I didn't know what the problem was. Then I started playing at home, on a mac emulator called sixtyforce. It doesn't give an option for range, and the deadzone is set at 10, but for some reason I kick *** on it. Some of that is because CPU's are easy, but I'm pulling off supercool combos that I'd never do on PJ64k. What the heck? Any advice? Mainly, the problem is hard inputs- dashing, going sideways enough during aerials, etc.

 

[TANK64]

I take it you don't need that plugin then. I just checked my E'mail today... sorry. I just thought you would pm me your E-mail first (not that that would be faster -_-, so I guess that was silly). I don't check my E'mail to often lol.

 

[King Omega]

Are there any codes/methods of making a VS match with Polygons not crash upon ending?

And yeah, I know you can restart.

 

[TANK64]

Could any TAS'ers let me know hot to get started. I have been avoiding making/posting some combos that involve walls because I want to be 200% sure they are in hit stun when it's not obvious. I basically just want it for testing purposes.

I also have have a Yoshi combo that ends it grab (or throw, rather lol), and I know you can always hit the opponent when you would have grabbed and see if it keeps counting. But this one is really far, and involves the 2nd jump landing before the grab. I tested it, and it's fine. But when I connect with the grab successfully are times when he pops up a little high. I think he might be able to jump out. I will post it probably tomorrow, and y'all can let me know what you think. (or even better TAS it yourself!)

Thanks if advance for anyone who can help.

 

[th3kuzinator]

What dictates a shield break?

I used to think it was when a certain amount of damage was put on the shield that it broke (I have tried numerous way and the percent seemed to be around 50)

However there are some like samus' upb which can break but certainly does not deal 50%.

What exactly governs how much shield damage an attack does, and is there a specific percent they are made to break at?