Bassic
Smash Apprentice
No, I've seen all the Apex 2012 videos. It's mainly Isai's link and Boom's falcon. I'm talking 2011 or 2010 Apex. Q told me that they exist somewhere, but I'm beginning to think they don't.
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Ask a Question, Get an Answer Thread~[Read Before Asking a Question]
- Thread starter Xivii
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anonymouschris01
Smash Apprentice
He's a liar and a thief.
Also he and I are gonna check out apartments Friday you should come up and look with us.
Bassic
Smash Apprentice
This sucks dude. The damn jobs aren't getting back to me so I'm gonna apply around there now to other places.
Purtle
Smash Journeyman
Just tried for a bit to find the %s that captain falcon chain Fthrow to Falcon Punch characters. Is there a concrete list of the exact %s?
Best I could find was this:
http://smashboards.com/threads/help-in-falcon-punch-combos.184070/#post-4966255
Best I could find was this:
http://smashboards.com/threads/help-in-falcon-punch-combos.184070/#post-4966255
ganas
Smash Cadet
Does anyone remember where the post is listing Twitch links for Isai's old streams? I can't find it via search or combing through the threads I thought it would be in. I think either MrMarbles or Sedda posted it a few weeks ago...
ganas
Smash Cadet
Nah, it was better than that. The links in Past Broadcasts disappear after a month. The post I'm thinking of was a list of 5-6 Twitch video links, which I believe is the only way to access them now.
EDIT: found it, it was in the social thread.
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Don't go to past broadcasts, stay in highlights. There's 21 Isai videos in that list. I haven't checked, but I'd assume those links are all there (plus 6 more).
Sedda
Smash Champion
cobr asks:
@Madao @
Sangoku
cobrrrrrrr> anyway ask if one of them can make a graphic that can show the potential areas a fox can attack off the three different kinds of platform options
<cobrrrrrrr> run off, shield drop, and running shield drop
<cobrrrrrrr> hmm it might actually be a hell of a lot of work
<cobrrrrrrr> whatever
@Madao @
Sangoku
cobrrrrrrr> anyway ask if one of them can make a graphic that can show the potential areas a fox can attack off the three different kinds of platform options
<cobrrrrrrr> run off, shield drop, and running shield drop
<cobrrrrrrr> hmm it might actually be a hell of a lot of work
<cobrrrrrrr> whatever
BananaBolts
I find you quite appealing
A few questions:
Assuming you're frame perfect, are there any vulnerable frames during a shine out of shield to re-shield?
As a followup question, does jumping out of shield give you 2 frames of invincibility? Does it differ for some characters (notably Yoshi)?
Does anyone have the jump-squat frame data (the number of frames it takes a character to leave the ground)?
Assuming you're frame perfect, are there any vulnerable frames during a shine out of shield to re-shield?
As a followup question, does jumping out of shield give you 2 frames of invincibility? Does it differ for some characters (notably Yoshi)?
Does anyone have the jump-squat frame data (the number of frames it takes a character to leave the ground)?
MCG
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2013
- Messages
- 95
1) Mixa did the frame analysis of shine cancel out of shield. It lasts 9 frames, first two frames of intangible because of shield jump. 1 frame vulnerable, 1 frame intangible due to the shine, followed by 5 frames vulnerable.
2) http://framedisplay.onlinessb.com/
During the frame display project, I added the jump out of shield animation. You can select that animation for every character. You'll notice that it's two frames for all the characters, even yoshi. Actually, to shield jump, you have to have your shield up before jumping. Yoshi parries before the shield appears.
3) Yes Madao did the testing. It's under the row 'Frame delay before jumping'.
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BananaBolts
I find you quite appealing
I have the NTSC Character chart but apparently I overlooked the jump frame data. I didn't realize that the frame display site had the jump out of shield. I had a few suggestions for the frame display project but I don't know if it's still being updated.1) Mixa did the frame analysis of shine cancel out of shield. It lasts 9 frames, first two frames of intangible because of shield jump. 1 frame vulnerable, 1 frame intangible due to the shine, followed by 5 frames vulnerable.
2) http://framedisplay.onlinessb.com/
During the frame display project, I added the jump out of shield animation. You can select that animation for every character. You'll notice that it's two frames for all the characters, even yoshi. Actually, to shield jump, you have to have your shield up before jumping. Yoshi parries before the shield appears.
3) Yes Madao did the testing. It's under the row 'Frame delay before jumping'.
Thanks, MCG.
EDIT: @
MCG
So I've been searching for the last 30 minutes and haven't been able to find something that I'm hoping you can help with. If not, I might try TASing it.At what point does crouch cancelling take effect in its animation? Can you crouch cancel a move if you've only held down for one frame or do you have to complete your crouching animation?
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MCG
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2013
- Messages
- 95
It's a good question that I don't know the answer. I say try it, it's very easy to test and I'd also be interested in your discoveries.
It hasn't been updated in a little while. Madao and I agreed that it could definitely be improved. We had ideas too, but some ideas involved redo everything from scratch. Considering Sangoku and Mixa did most of the hardwork and they had both self-banned themselves, so nothing new was added to the project since the '1.0' release of the executable and my web page release.
I also had some improvements in mind for the web page but I have not spent time on it at all. I think you should suggest your ideas to the original thread and we could have a discussion over there. If some new people get interested, we could get the ball rolling and that could lead to cool stuff.
You have to hold down for 2 frames before getting hit at least. Pretty good technique huh.
BananaBolts
I find you quite appealing
I did some TAS but I'd like a second observation due to this being my first TAS test. I'm glad it was an easy test lol.
It turns out that you only have to input down for one frame in order to crouch cancel. So instead of needing to be in an already crouched position, which takes 6 frames with Mario, you only need to be holding down for one frame in order to successfully crouch cancel.
What does this mean to me, an average player?
This means that crouch cancelling is the fastest, grounded defensive option if you have no moves that come out as quickly as one frame. Shielding and crouch cancelling come out on the same frame but crouch cancelling has a bit more utility than shields do. At low percent, you can retaliate and at high percent you can survive a lethal blow. Shields can often end up getting you killed.
I tested this as Mario vs Fox's usmash at 0%. I also tried to add DI into the mix to see if DI-ing down gained you any frame advantage but alas it was useless as it had no positive/negative effect on shielding after the crouch cancel i.e. shield didn't come out quicker. It should be noted that you can DI during a crouch cancel. I think that it's common knowledge because of the way DI works but I should throw it out there. If you DI directly away or towards your opponent, you still receive the same number of frames before you can shield.
An interesting thing that I noticed that might be too advanced to be viable:
If you DI up during a crouch cancel, it's possible get out of hitstun in the air but end up in your neutral aerial animation or in other words, not in tumble. The fact that you aren't in tumble is irrelevant but whatever. So once you've DI-ed into the air, you now have the ability to retaliate with an aerial instead of a grounded option that you would receive from crouch cancelling with no DI or DI away/in.
Please note that this was a specific scenario, Mario vs Fox's usmash at 0%. Feel free to recommend any situations like this you want me to TAS, like Falcon's usmash vs the crouch cancelling cast lol.
Shears
Smash Master
They're that precise.
Sangoku
Smash Master
@
BananaBolts
I was about to rant because people don't read what has been done and I had already tested and confirmed crouch cancelling was effective right away. Then I saw it wasn't mentioned in my thread, so good job testing it. And sorry for badly documenting.
@ B Babouli96 If you're talking about lasers specifically, the main goal is to shoot two lasers within a short hop. It's therefore called Short Hop Double Laser= SHDL. What you want to do (if you play on a n64 controller) is to be able to slide between left C to B in order to both short hop and laser as fast as possible. Then you can time the second "B" press to shoot the second laser. Ballin used to say the sound of the laser helped with timing. The important laser is actually the second one, as you want it to be shot as low as possible, but still shot (worst case is it doesn't come out). For example it is better to be able to do a short hop single laser as low as possible than to be able to do a SHDL, but only with a high second laser. With the same method (but pressing c slightly longer), you can do a full hop triple laser. This one is less important, it's more used when camping.
The other factors for speed are z-cancelled aerials, fast falls, perfect landings on platforms, etc. I assume you know all these techniques, but if you don't, please refer to the smash index.
BananaBolts
I was about to rant because people don't read what has been done and I had already tested and confirmed crouch cancelling was effective right away. Then I saw it wasn't mentioned in my thread, so good job testing it. And sorry for badly documenting.@ B Babouli96 If you're talking about lasers specifically, the main goal is to shoot two lasers within a short hop. It's therefore called Short Hop Double Laser= SHDL. What you want to do (if you play on a n64 controller) is to be able to slide between left C to B in order to both short hop and laser as fast as possible. Then you can time the second "B" press to shoot the second laser. Ballin used to say the sound of the laser helped with timing. The important laser is actually the second one, as you want it to be shot as low as possible, but still shot (worst case is it doesn't come out). For example it is better to be able to do a short hop single laser as low as possible than to be able to do a SHDL, but only with a high second laser. With the same method (but pressing c slightly longer), you can do a full hop triple laser. This one is less important, it's more used when camping.
The other factors for speed are z-cancelled aerials, fast falls, perfect landings on platforms, etc. I assume you know all these techniques, but if you don't, please refer to the smash index.
Technical_Knockout
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
- Messages
- 194
so with clashing attacks, was wondering if there's some rule about who gets the frame advantage? is it based on the strength of the attack, or does it have to do with ending lag or something else entirely?
thank you, this cleared things up a lot!@
@ B Babouli96 If you're talking about lasers specifically, the main goal is to shoot two lasers within a short hop. It's therefore called Short Hop Double Laser= SHDL. What you want to do (if you play on a n64 controller) is to be able to slide between left C to B in order to both short hop and laser as fast as possible. Then you can time the second "B" press to shoot the second laser. Ballin used to say the sound of the laser helped with timing. The important laser is actually the second one, as you want it to be shot as low as possible, but still shot (worst case is it doesn't come out). For example it is better to be able to do a short hop single laser as low as possible than to be able to do a SHDL, but only with a high second laser. With the same method (but pressing c slightly longer), you can do a full hop triple laser. This one is less important, it's more used when camping.
The other factors for speed are z-cancelled aerials, fast falls, perfect landings on platforms, etc. I assume you know all these techniques, but if you don't, please refer to the smash index.
BananaBolts
I find you quite appealing
I searched for a while and never found it. I read your posts and I tried using the search function but it was never written/documented anywhere. I've read a lot of the old posts on frame data so I have a pretty good idea of where to find things when I need them. Sometimes people have really looked for info and just haven't found the answer. Even with how well the index is made, it can still be difficult to find the info you desire. I blame it on the fact that most of the technical data found in the index is all linked from other locations (some of which force you to read through thread posts to find elaboration on the subject matter). It would be nice if that section of the index received some much needed updates.@
nickthename
Smash Apprentice
MCG
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2013
- Messages
- 95
You might be able to find the info inside Toomai's excel document. I'm on mobile right now but I'm pretty sure he did the data for U and J versions.
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Technical_Knockout
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
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- 194
what gets the frame advantage after a clash... an attack with less ending lag or what?
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SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
the one that is deemed weaker by the game
for example: tilt will have less lag vs the smash attack
another example: first hit of falcon uptilt clanking against 2nd hit of falcon uptilt, first hit will have less lag
another example: weak part of dash attack on a tilted attack will have less lag, however if you do a strong dash attack on a tilt it will be the same lag for both the dash attack and tilt.
for example: tilt will have less lag vs the smash attack
another example: first hit of falcon uptilt clanking against 2nd hit of falcon uptilt, first hit will have less lag
another example: weak part of dash attack on a tilted attack will have less lag, however if you do a strong dash attack on a tilt it will be the same lag for both the dash attack and tilt.
Technical_Knockout
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
- Messages
- 194
super cool man thanks for the clarification; that's very useful info to me!
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The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
Based on the % the move deals, or knockback?
Guessing % since clanking is based on % in the first place.
Guessing % since clanking is based on % in the first place.
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Saltsizzle
Smash Journeyman
Is there a list of moves that don't need to be z cancelled?
Technical_Knockout
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
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- 194
ness up-air/down-air & pika up-air.
Saltsizzle
Smash Journeyman
Aren't there more like jiggs dair and yoshi nair or is that it?
I thought jigg's dair "needs" to be canceled, but it's just beneficial not to sometimes to pop them up. No idea about Yoshi, but I've always heard the same list TK post, so maybe it just has a really short ending lag so it's not as obvious?
Technical_Knockout
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2015
- Messages
- 194
go to smash 64 index--technical data/useful threads--compilation of technical frame data--4.6.1 auto-cancelling frames (chart).
read the move as auto-cancelling both before & after the # of frames shown... notice the 3 moves i listed above say 'all', so will always auto-cancel.
additionally, it looks like pika down-air & falcon up-air will never auto-cancel on start-up if i'm understanding the chart correctly.
read the move as auto-cancelling both before & after the # of frames shown... notice the 3 moves i listed above say 'all', so will always auto-cancel.
additionally, it looks like pika down-air & falcon up-air will never auto-cancel on start-up if i'm understanding the chart correctly.
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
good 1deadzone/75range
bad 5deadzone/75range
varies with adapter+plugin though, good luck
bad 5deadzone/75range
varies with adapter+plugin though, good luck
nickthename
Smash Apprentice
Grabs are a huge part of falcon's game, even strong players get grabbed occasionally by falcon. That said, good spacing and aerial attacks are probably your best bet, but there's no silver bullet to avoiding getting grabbed.
I don't know about Isai in particular, but basically you want practice and using the R button for aerials.
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