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Ask a Question, Get an Answer Thread~[Read Before Asking a Question]

ganas

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
63
Location
central PA
What's the general opinion among the community about J vs. U versions of the game? Is U considered to have a higher competitive skill cap because of DI? Why do Japanese players seem to play J and U, but outside Japan everyone only plays U? Who convinced Japanese players to play U? Shouldn't J be considered better because it is the 'original' version? Is U preferred because it's more readily available?

Lots of questions, I know. Sorry.
 

KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
Yo i have this problem with shielding you cant get your shield hit because it either leads to a grab or a shield break from aerials so what the point of doing it, but if you dont shield you get hit regardless. What should i do to counter that except with the basic answer of movement also is shield angling useful?
 

Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
3,146
Location
disproving indeterminism
Yo i have this problem with shielding you cant get your shield hit because it either leads to a grab or a shield break from aerials so what the point of doing it, but if you dont shield you get hit regardless. What should i do to counter that except with the basic answer of movement also is shield angling useful?
"Don't get hit"
 

Technical_Knockout

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
194
Yo i have this problem with shielding you cant get your shield hit because it either leads to a grab or a shield break from aerials so what the point of doing it, but if you dont shield you get hit regardless. What should i do to counter that except with the basic answer of movement also is shield angling useful?
good question i'll give you my opinion on the matter:

first i think the degree of usefulness of shielding is really character-dependent, based on the speed of their respective out-of-shield options. for instance the bros. have both 0 & 1-frame startup-lag choices & yoshi has parry shenanigans, so if you know hitboxes & percentages well you'll learn when you can get away with shielding an attack.

secondly, (and this is something i've been meaning to bring up for a while now, as it correlates with my love of damage-boosting in speedruns) sometimes it's better to not shield, get hit and di for better stage positioning, particularly versus drill attacks (to avoid a grab, etc.)

finally yes, shield-angling is useful, for at least 3 reasons:

1. angling a reduced shield to cover against a hit.
2. angling to cover some of the damage, but then steering to ensure a hit to di with.
3. angling to buffer a direction that will be useful for an out-of-shield option (for example, shielding & buffering 'up' as falcon & then hitting 'c' + 'a' 1-frame apart results in a faster up-smash oos than normally possible.)

in general it's usually better not to shield, but buffering 'z' can also result in some interesting options such as chaining z-cancels into rolls (my favorite; leads to cool combos/grabs), plat-drops, parries & shield-jumps. :)
 
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KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
good question i'll give you my opinion on the matter:

first i think the degree of usefulness of shielding is really character-dependent, based on the speed of their respective out-of-shield options. for instance the bros. have both 0 & 1-frame startup-lag choices & yoshi has parry shenanigans, so if you know hitboxes & percentages well you'll learn when you can get away with shielding an attack.

secondly, (and this is something i've been meaning to bring up for a while now, as it correlates with my love of damage-boosting in speedruns) sometimes it's better to not shield, get hit and di for better stage positioning, particularly versus drill attacks (to avoid a grab, etc.)

finally yes, shield-angling is useful, for at least 3 reasons:

1. angling a reduced shield to cover against a hit.
2. angling to cover some of the damage, but then steering to ensure a hit to di with.
3. angling to buffer a direction that will be useful for an out-of-shield option (for example, shielding & buffering 'up' as falcon & then hitting 'c' + 'a' 1-frame apart results in a faster up-smash oos than normally possible.)

in general it's usually better not to shield, but buffering 'z' can also result in some interesting options such as chaining z-cancels into rolls (my favorite; leads to cool combos/grabs), plat-drops, parries & shield-jumps. :)
What do you mean by buffer z?
 

Technical_Knockout

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
194
hold 'z'.

also, what fireblaster said.

shield-slides off ledges & rolling through projectiles could also maybe be situationally-useful.
 

caneut

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
945
good question i'll give you my opinion on the matter:

first i think the degree of usefulness of shielding is really character-dependent, based on the speed of their respective out-of-shield options. for instance the bros. have both 0 & 1-frame startup-lag choices & yoshi has parry shenanigans, so if you know hitboxes & percentages well you'll learn when you can get away with shielding an attack.

secondly, (and this is something i've been meaning to bring up for a while now, as it correlates with my love of damage-boosting in speedruns) sometimes it's better to not shield, get hit and di for better stage positioning, particularly versus drill attacks (to avoid a grab, etc.)

finally yes, shield-angling is useful, for at least 3 reasons:

1. angling a reduced shield to cover against a hit.
2. angling to cover some of the damage, but then steering to ensure a hit to di with.
3. angling to buffer a direction that will be useful for an out-of-shield option (for example, shielding & buffering 'up' as falcon & then hitting 'c' + 'a' 1-frame apart results in a faster up-smash oos than normally possible.)

in general it's usually better not to shield, but buffering 'z' can also result in some interesting options such as chaining z-cancels into rolls (my favorite; leads to cool combos/grabs), plat-drops, parries & shield-jumps. :)
is this studstill alt or cuddly alt?
 

BananaBolts

I find you quite appealing
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
784
Location
Fayetteville, TN
good question i'll give you my opinion on the matter:finally yes, shield-angling is useful, for at least 3 reasons:

1. angling a reduced shield to cover against a hit.
2. angling to cover some of the damage, but then steering to ensure a hit to di with.
3. angling to buffer a direction that will be useful for an out-of-shield option (for example, shielding & buffering 'up' as falcon & then hitting 'c' + 'a' 1-frame apart results in a faster up-smash oos than normally possible.)
I'm just going to throw my opinion out there about this post: I think it's scarcely true and too misleading. lemme highlight the words "my opinion" before I continue. Like most people, I could be wrong.

1. This tip is highly, highly, highly, highly, HIGHLY situational and should only be used in the most specific of situations. This is not something that should be taken into any serious account. You WILL put yourself in great jeopardy for a shield break like this.
2. This tip is misleading, misinformed, or both. When you are in shield stun, you cannot change the positioning of your shield. This means 2 things: 1, legitimate shield pressure will ensure that your shield is broken. 2, a good player will know when he/she can make safe shield pressure. A smart player will avoid careless attacks on shield and improper shield pokes.
3. This is the only legitimate tip here. Any player stuck in shield should be aware of their best option in that situation e.g. usmash, upb, shield push off ledge to retaliate, the rare shield grab, link's down-b bomb throw, etc.

also,
in general it's usually better not to shield, but buffering 'z' can also result in some interesting options such as chaining z-cancels into rolls (my favorite; leads to cool combos/grabs), plat-drops, parries & shield-jumps. :)
buffering a z-cancel into a roll is not a good idea. it leaves you open to a punish 99/100 times unless you are using this tech in a SUPER unique mix-up or mind-game that we don't know about, TKO.

A question, TKO (and I'm not being facetious): Is this all theory-crafting that you're doing based on your understanding of the game or have you performed these things on high-caliber players enough times to adopt them into your gameplay tactics?

I mean, simple things like shield push off ledge -> punish the opponent's attack or usmash OOS are legitimate tactics but.... you seem to really endorse very specific things like getting hit in shield and DI-ing into a favorable position. That DI tactic is waaay too specific for almost any given scenario. The only way I can even see that working is if the opponent (Fox or Jiggs) drills your shield and you DI out after the poke. Your opponent (Fox or Jiggs) should not be drilling your shield in the first place.

What I'm trying to get at is, in order to even react to a situation like angling your shield to block an attack, the time you had to make that decision and commit to it could have been better used for a pivot or input an out-prioritizing attack of your own rather than use a suicidal defensive option such as shielding while your shield is low on health.

I dunno, maybe I just made a useless post or maybe I contributed. My posts are reaching a new shade of grey nowadays.
 

KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
I'm just going to throw my opinion out there about this post: I think it's scarcely true and too misleading. lemme highlight the words "my opinion" before I continue. Like most people, I could be wrong.

1. This tip is highly, highly, highly, highly, HIGHLY situational and should only be used in the most specific of situations. This is not something that should be taken into any serious account. You WILL put yourself in great jeopardy for a shield break like this.
2. This tip is misleading, misinformed, or both. When you are in shield stun, you cannot change the positioning of your shield. This means 2 things: 1, legitimate shield pressure will ensure that your shield is broken. 2, a good player will know when he/she can make safe shield pressure. A smart player will avoid careless attacks on shield and improper shield pokes.
3. This is the only legitimate tip here. Any player stuck in shield should be aware of their best option in that situation e.g. usmash, upb, shield push off ledge to retaliate, the rare shield grab, link's down-b bomb throw, etc.

also,

buffering a z-cancel into a roll is not a good idea. it leaves you open to a punish 99/100 times unless you are using this tech in a SUPER unique mix-up or mind-game that we don't know about, TKO.

A question, TKO (and I'm not being facetious): Is this all theory-crafting that you're doing based on your understanding of the game or have you performed these things on high-caliber players enough times to adopt them into your gameplay tactics?

I mean, simple things like shield push off ledge -> punish the opponent's attack or usmash OOS are legitimate tactics but.... you seem to really endorse very specific things like getting hit in shield and DI-ing into a favorable position. That DI tactic is waaay too specific for almost any given scenario. The only way I can even see that working is if the opponent (Fox or Jiggs) drills your shield and you DI out after the poke. Your opponent (Fox or Jiggs) should not be drilling your shield in the first place.

What I'm trying to get at is, in order to even react to a situation like angling your shield to block an attack, the time you had to make that decision and commit to it could have been better used for a pivot or input an out-prioritizing attack of your own rather than use a suicidal defensive option such as shielding while your shield is low on health.

I dunno, maybe I just made a useless post or maybe I contributed. My posts are reaching a new shade of grey nowadays.
What do you use out of pivots when your getting pressure?, I use pivot aerials or Grabs but that rarely works for me.
 

Technical_Knockout

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
194
good question i'll give you my opinion on the matter:

first i think the degree of usefulness of shielding is really character-dependent, based on the speed of their respective out-of-shield options.... so if you know hitboxes & percentages well you'll learn when you can get away with shielding an attack... sometimes it's better to not shield, get hit and di for better stage positioning... in general it's usually better not to shield, but buffering 'z' can also result in some interesting options... :)
yeah pretty sure you missed the main ideas of my post, but thanks for trying to put me in my place... i thought you were cool man, what's up, everything ok? come on, chill out a bit... i was just trying to help out.

i think you're over-estimating the ease of shieldbreaks... over half the cast can't do them on command, and you should refer to my first 2 points above regarding this.

also, maybe if you weren't a falcon main you'd have a different opinion of z-cancel to roll. i was thinking specifically about luigi with his fast aerials & good roll. at the very least i could see it being useful in doubles to hit one opponent while avoiding the other, but really anyways, tell me how the person that you just hit would be able to punish you while they're still in hitstun, please?

i personally rarely di, as i don't think it's worth the wear on my controller. #2 on my post was paraphrasing someone else (maybe boom? i'll find the post if you want me to) answering the same shield-angling question.

most of the time i'm just pointing out interesting ideas, not strongly endorsing them like you seem to believe. just relax, man, i don't have any beef with you & i think you're a cool guy... :)
 
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Technical_Knockout

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
194
sure man, already have; look at the doubles example i mentioned above: if you hit one opponent with a late aerial and are about to get hit yourself by the second guy, linking the z-cancel into a roll may very well be your best option.
 
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BananaBolts

I find you quite appealing
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
784
Location
Fayetteville, TN
I'll respond to KingDozie first so he doesn't have to search my post for this response
What do you use out of pivots when your getting pressure?, I use pivot aerials or Grabs but that rarely works for me.
Pivot grabs can be used but you have to know when they're going to connect. I typically don't use pivots to escape high pressure like escaping tech chases or whatnot but I will use pivot grab to punish an approach that otherwise would have left me in danger. As for pivot aerials... you don't even really need to pivot to retreat with an aerial. You can simply dash away, jump, and retreat while using an aerial such as bair. I can't really think of a character and situation wherein you'd need to pivot to use a fair or the front of your nair or w/e else is better when you face forwards. A simple dash away or usmash(or w/e move you use to escape pressure) will suffice in most pressure situations. Acting quickly is the hardest part for most people e.g. dashing on the first available frame, up-smashing on the first available frame, etc. Just practice quick retaliation after you tech.

Now for TKO's post,
yeah pretty sure you missed the main ideas of my post, but thanks for trying to put me in my place... i thought you were cool man, what's up, everything ok? come on, chill out a bit... i was just trying to help out.
I'm guessing you meant to respond to my post and not your own. I'm not mad at you or anything; I'm just confused by some of your tech theories. I mean, I talk about little gimmicks all the time and their uses as legitimate mix-ups for various situations. I just don't see a lot of these things as good tactics of which to get accustomed.

i think you're over-estimating the ease of shieldbreaks... over half the cast can't do them on command, and you should refer to my first 2 points above regarding this.
It's not even necessarily about shield breaks, TKO. As a Falcon main, all I need is one hit on shield and I get my grab. The only character that can kinda get away with shielding is Luigi, thanks to how much he slides and his fast OOS options. Even he cannot counter shield pressure + a follow-up. So many people instantly assume the term "shield pressure" refers to a potential shield break. In fact, sometimes a character needs one hit confirm on shield and then they can chain that to a second, higher KB move to allow themselves access to their shield pressure follow-up. Like I said above, intentionally putting yourself in shield in hopes to re-angle your shield will result in one of two things "1, legitimate shield pressure will ensure that your shield is broken. 2, a good player will know when he/she can make safe shield pressure. A smart player will avoid careless attacks on shield and improper shield pokes." This quote should have included the bit about an attack on shield + a follow-up. Unfortunately, my sleep deprived state led to that little bit unintentionally omitted.

also, maybe if you weren't a falcon main you'd have a different opinion of z-cancel to roll. i was thinking specifically about luigi with his fast aerials & good roll. at the very least i could see it being useful in doubles to hit one opponent while avoiding the other, but really anyways, tell me how the person that you just hit would be able to punish you while they're still in hitstun, please?
Me being a Falcon main has nothing to do with my distaste for aerial to roll. None of my secondaries do it. Why? because I always have much better follow-ups than a highly committal and dangerous action such as roll. Again, I'm not being facetious but can you please present a video or detailed scenario where rolling after a z cancel is your best option or an actual, non-dangerous mix-up? Just like you, I love little tricks that that may seem sub par but are actually good tactics. Sorry if you thought I was trying to be an *** or something.

most of the time i'm just pointing out interesting ideas, not strongly endorsing them like you seem to believe. just relax, man, i don't have any beef with you & i think you're a cool guy... :)
I guess strongly endorsing was poor wording. You do, however, have a lot of theories cooking up in that brain of yours that you seem to believe a lot more than you're letting off to be. Maybe it's the way I'm reading some of your posts that make me feel like you use a lot of these tactics regularly in your matches. Anyways, I'm pretty chill about things. I just get really passionate when I talk about smash. I try not to be rude online but it's hard not to sound condescending and sarcastic when I make a contentious post. A lot of the time, I just don't want new players to fall into habits of (insert action) because they saw someone on Smashboards say that it was good. I'm fully open to being corrected if my post is incorrect and I appreciate hard fact to disprove me. Please, smashers. call me out when I'm wrong. I love getting better at this game.

I dunno, I can read my previous post both ways, informatively nice or mean-spirited correction.
(insert a picture of a shrugging banana)
 

Technical_Knockout

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
194
hey man, thanks for responding & being cool... :) just in order to clarify a few things:

I'm guessing you meant to respond to my post and not your own.
nah, i was specifically pointing out the main sections of my post that i wanted to highlight as reinforcing my personal point of view that most of the time i don't think shielding is a good idea... by the '2 points above' section of my previous post i was referring to these:

first i think the degree of usefulness of shielding is really character-dependent, based on the speed of their respective out-of-shield options... so if you know hitboxes & percentages well you'll learn when you can get away with shielding an attack.
.... and not to the first 2 possible applications of angling a shield that i mentioned; like i said about those, i was simply paraphrasing a former reply to the same question (again, i think it was answered by boom--i would be happy to try to find the post for you if you like), for the sake of completeness of finding potential uses (recommended or not; i like to be thorough) of angling a shield.

honestly, most of the time i'm just trying to show people all their possible options in case they hadn't considered some of them, leaving them to make up their own minds about the merits/demerits of each, rather than endorsing any particular plan of action as beneficial... i'd probably be wrong, anyways; i live in a smash desert & am rocking wireless internet. :)

besides which, my point in saying 'learning when you can get away with shielding an attack', i naturally assumed would apply towards all possible punishes & not just shield-breaks... in my mind while giving this advice i was picturing fireblaster's recommendation of shielding on the edge of ledges (obviously, to set-up a shield-cancel), which is why i said:

also, what fireblaster said.
The only character that can kinda get away with shielding is Luigi, thanks to how much he slides and his fast OOS options.
this right here is really funny to me & could easily explain a lot of the miscommunication between us, because as a probable luigi-main (haven't quite decided yet), my views on shields (and rolls) are fairly skewed towards weegie's point-of-view on them.

:)

can you please present a detailed scenario where rolling after a z cancel is your best option or an actual, non-dangerous mix-up?
sure thing holmes; how about both?:

best option: in doubles you have just hit one opponent forward with a late neutral-air and are about to get hit by his team-mate with an aerial from behind... you aren't playing a bro, so can't up-b or down-b out, so in this case chaining a back-roll to the z-cancel to escape may be the best option at your disposal.

non-dangerous mix-up: as luigi in singles from about 2/3 of the way across the bottom of dreamland you have just hit your high-percent opponent off-stage with a late forward-air... in this scenario chaining a forward-roll to the z-cancel will not only safely & quickly gain some distance, but also turn you around, putting you in position for your back-air ledge-guard probably faster than would otherwise be possible (i do think a pivot-jump would be pretty close in this situation, though.)

Just like you, I love little tricks that that may seem sub par but are actually good tactics. Sorry if you thought I was trying to be an *** or something.
here, you might like this then; i thought it up the other day: if you're pivoting to the edge of the stage (or a platform), but don't want to fall off, toss out a jab, fireball or other move... it'll kill your momentum & keep you on.

seriously, i'm sure people can take the things that i say the wrong way, but i'm really not trying to make myself out as being a superior player or anything (i know that i'm not, believe me); i just like trick, glitch & bug-hunting in the games that i play & especially enjoy sharing what i've discovered (whether it's already known or not... but i make an effort not to point out the obvious if at all possible.)

don't worry about what i thought: i think the most important thing is that we all get along... i'm sure most of you have seen me rage from time-to-time, but what you probably don't know is that i don't try to instigate conflict & i always try to apologize afterwards & make amends for my behavior if i feel that i've been in the wrong... i don't believe in holding grudges, but my specific past makes it extremely difficult for me to initially handle certain situations involving bullying comments, passive-aggressive swipes or unprovoked attacks gracefully... i've already learned that my favored 'massive-aggressive' fighting style doesn't fare very well on-line, so in the future i'll be handling any and all drama as the moderators have suggested to me.

I guess strongly endorsing was poor wording. You do, however, have a lot of theories cooking up in that brain of yours that you seem to believe a lot more than you're letting off to be. Maybe it's the way I'm reading some of your posts that make me feel like you use a lot of these tactics regularly in your matches. Anyways, I'm pretty chill about things. I just get really passionate when I talk about smash. A lot of the time, I just don't want new players to fall into habits of (insert action) because they saw someone on Smashboards say that it was good.
again, to reiterate, i'm not attempting at all to lead anyone down the wrong path--i'm passionate about smash as well, but i'm simply pointing out the entirety of their options in case they haven't fully appreciated all of them... i think most people are pretty capable of determining what works & what doesn't on their own, & being aware of all their choices can't ever be a bad thing, right?

over-all i'm sure we're on the same page, bro. :)
 
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caneut

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
945
hey man, thanks for responding & being cool... :) just in order to clarify a few things:



nah, i was specifically pointing out the main sections of my post that i wanted to highlight as reinforcing my personal point of view that most of the time i don't think shielding is a good idea... by the "2 points above" section of my previous post i was referring to these...



.... and not to the first 2 possible applications of angling a shield that i mentioned; like i said about those, i was simply paraphrasing a former reply to the same question (again, i think it was answered by boom; i would be happy to try to find the post for you if you like), for the sake of completeness of finding potential uses (recommended or not, i like to be thorough) of angling a shield.

honestly, most of the time i'm just trying to show people all their possible options in case they hadn't considered some of them, leaving them to make up their own minds about the merits/demerits of each, rather than endorsing any particular plan of action as beneficial. i'd probably be wrong, anyways; i live in a smash desert & am rocking wireless internet... :)

besides which, my point in saying 'learning when you can get away with shielding an attack', i naturally assumed would apply towards all possible punishes & not just shield-breaks... in my mind while giving this advice i was picturing fireblaster's recommendation of shielding on the edge of ledges (obviously, to set-up a shield-cancel), which is why i said:





this right here is really funny to me, and could easily explain a lot of the miscommunication between us, because as a probable luigi-main (haven't quite decided yet), my views on shields (and rolls) are fairly skewed towards weegie's point-of-view on them. :)



sure thing holmes; how about both?:

best option: in doubles you have just hit one opponent forward with a late neutral-air and are about to get hit by his team-mate with an aerial from behind... you aren't playing a bro, so can't up-b or down-b out, so in this case chaining a back-roll to the z-cancel to escape may be the best option at your disposal.

non-dangerous mix-up: as luigi in singles from about 2/3 of the way across the bottom of dreamland you have just hit your high-percent opponent off-stage with a late forward-air... in this scenario chaining a forward-roll to the z-cancel will not only safely & quickly gain some distance, but also turn you around, putting you in position for your back-air ledge-guard probably faster than would otherwise be possible (i do think a pivot-jump would be pretty close in this situation, though.)



here, you might like this then; thought it up the other day: if you're pivoting to the edge of a platform, but don't want to fall off, toss out a jab, fireball or other move... it'll kill your momentum & keep you on.

seriously, i'm sure people can take the things that i say the wrong way, but i'm really not trying to make myself out as being a superior player or anything (i know that i'm not, believe me)... i just like trick, glitch & bug-hunting in the games that i play & especially enjoy sharing what i've discovered (whether it's already known or not; but i really try not to point out the obvious if at all possible.)

don't worry about what i thought: i think the most important thing is that we all get along... i'm sure most of you have seen me rage from time-to-time, but what you probably don't know is that i don't try to instigate conflict & i always try to apologize afterwards & make amends for my behavior... i don't believe in holding grudges, but my specific past makes it extremely difficult for me to initially handle certain situations involving bullying, passive-aggressive comments or unprovoked attacks very well... i've learned already that my favored 'massive-aggressive' fighting style doesn't fare very well on-line, so in the future i'll be handling any and all drama as the moderators have suggested to me.



again, to reiterate, i'm not attempting at all to lead anyone down the wrong path--i'm passionate about smash as well, but i'm merely pointing out all their options in case they haven't fully appreciated all of them... i think most people are pretty capable of determining what works & what doesn't on their own, & being aware of all their choices can't ever be a bad thing, right?

i think overall we're on the same page, bro. :)
can cuddly toys make a post any longer?
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Caneut you have the right to disagree with a post, but can you at least formulate it in a constructive manner, like BananaBolts did? If you can't, then you probably shouldn't post.
 

caneut

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
945
Caneut you have the right to disagree with a post, but can you at least formulate it in a constructive manner, like BananaBolts did? If you can't, then you probably shouldn't post.
I was just hoping for an answer by asking a question...
 

maxel100

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
2
Hi Smashboards,

Sorry for this annoying post but I hope someone can help.

Very keen to play SSB64 online and I have Wine and Project64KVE on my new macbook but im getting an error:

"Graphics Error
Direct3D failed to initialize
D3DERR_INVALIDCALL"

Whenever I select the smash bros rom.

Does anyone have any ideas how to fix this?

My graphics card is NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M if that matters?

Thanks in advance!
 

Madao

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
870
Hi Smashboards,

Sorry for this annoying post but I hope someone can help.

Very keen to play SSB64 online and I have Wine and Project64KVE on my new macbook but im getting an error:

"Graphics Error
Direct3D failed to initialize
D3DERR_INVALIDCALL"

Whenever I select the smash bros rom.

Does anyone have any ideas how to fix this?

My graphics card is NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M if that matters?

Thanks in advance!
Hello. Next time, please post questions in this thread instead of creating a new one.

Idk too much about wine, but sounds like it has an issue with whatever graphics plugin you are using. You can try other plugins. Which graphics plugin are you using btw?
 

maxel100

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
2
Hello. Next time, please post questions in this thread instead of creating a new one.

Idk too much about wine, but sounds like it has an issue with whatever graphics plugin you are using. You can try other plugins. Which graphics plugin are you using btw?
Thanks Madao.

I'm using Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6
 

Littlebear

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
24
Location
Seattle, Washington
How does rolling and ledge grabbing work? I noticed it's not like Melee, where your opponent can't grab the ledge until the roll finishes, because I'll be in my edge roll and they're frustratingly able to grab the ledge. What are the mechanics on this is in 64?
 

Technical_Knockout

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in 64 you must be grabbing the ledge yourself to ledge-hog, but you need to time it right because you only have about 2 seconds of invincibility once you do grab it & if it wears off, your opponent might hit you off the ledge during his recovery attempt unless you either:

ledge-hop & re-grab to renew your invulnerability (can be repeated indefinitely), or use a get-up option right before you get hit, as they each have varying, brief amounts of start-up invincibility & the extra second or so they take to activate could make the difference between a successful edgeguard & getting hit off the ledge yourself.

at 100% damage or over, each character's get-up options change, usually taking longer to complete (with more invincibility frames) & therefore becoming more useful for this tactic; it's a good idea to become familiar with all the hitboxes to determine what your best move is for this scenario.

the easiest and (usually) fastest way to grab the ledge in this game is to edge-roll (or just face backwards if you are already at the edge of the stage), short-hop & then fast-fall... i hope this helps you out! :)
 
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BananaBolts

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the easiest and (usually) fastest way to grab the ledge in this game is to edge-roll (or just face backwards if you are already at the edge of the stage), short-hop & then fast-fall... i hope this helps you out! :)
I'd like to point out that Littlebear was referring to rolling up from the ledge in order to extend one's invincibility and achieve a successful ledgehog. It's a semantic thing, I guess. Melee has a lot of extra frames where your character doesn't visually look like they're holding the ledge yet they can still ledgehog. To answer your question Littlebear, I don't know the frame data for this but it's pretty much once you're visually off of the ledge, the opponent can grab it.

Also, cobr wanted to me to relay this message to you, "no it isn't, stop saying dumb things. rolling backwards, sh'ing and ff'ing is so much slower than just pivot edgehogging. jesus christ"
 

Technical_Knockout

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yeah cobr wanted you to say that to me because i caught him trying to talk **** about me (when i had said absolutely nothing to him first) behind my back on firo's stream & i subsequently told him off; he's pissed off about that & now trying to embarrass me... not surprised he's been banned & good riddance.

pretty stupid to forget that you're on camera, dude--take it like a man rather than acting like a whiny middle-schooler trying to complain from beyond the grave... way to contribute to bullying studstill & then completely mortifying him by the way; that was you, right? bet you're really proud of that video, huh?

as for his advice he's dead wrong. it's way EASIER for a new player (this guy i was talking to seems to be mostly a melee player & not that familiar with 64) to learn a method that works for EVERY character (good luck pivot edge-hogging with yoshi lol) first, then learning more advanced/character-specific ones later as you progress.

also, notice i said rolling TO the ledge (to quickly get to the ledge & turn around), not AT the ledge... if you're already at the ledge you can't even pivot ledge-hog anyways, & do you really think it's easier, MUCH faster & more reliable to dash-dance pivot ledge-hog or to short-hop fast-fall? lol give me a break...

i'd also like to point out that i said USUALLY, as in, not always. most of the time if you're gonna ledge-hog rather than edge-guard time isn't really that much of a factor anyways.

hey, how's your campaign against me going, guys? quick! stop me from trying to help people out... before i ruin smash 64 for good! LOL :)
 
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BananaBolts

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as for his advice he's dead wrong. it's way EASIER for a new player (this guy i was talking to seems to be mostly a melee player & not that familiar with 64) to learn a method that works for EVERY character (good luck pivot edge-hogging with yoshi lol) first, then learning more advanced/character-specific ones later as you progress.

also, notice i said rolling TO the ledge (to quickly get to the ledge & turn around), not AT the ledge... if you're already at the ledge you can't even pivot ledge-hog anyways, & do you really think it's easier, MUCH faster & more reliable to dash-dance pivot ledge-hog or to short-hop fast-fall? lol give me a break...

i'd also like to point out that i said USUALLY, as in, not always. most of the time if you're gonna ledge-hog rather than edge-guard time isn't really that much of a factor anyways.
Again, you missed the question that Littlebear was asking. He's not asking about grabbing the ledge. He's asking about rolling up from the ledge when you're already hanging from it. Please, read his post again.

i'd also like to point out that i said USUALLY, as in, not always. most of the time if you're gonna ledge-hog rather than edge-guard time isn't really that much of a factor anyways.
That's incorrect. It's almost always slower, not "usually faster." Pivoting to the ledge is sooo much faster by comparison.

As for the second part of that quote: "most of the time if you're gonna ledge-hog rather than edge-guard time isn't really that much of a factor anyways." Even if this was correct, which is a bit of a grey area, informing someone about one of the slowest options without telling them a faster methodfor reasons such as "most of the time you won't need to be fast" (<-paraphrased) is completely stupid. Why ignore a faster and not-too-difficult tech to master? Even Luigi benefits from pivot edgehog.

Going back to the grey area I mentioned, many situations occur where you'll need to edgeguard a character and then immediately follow your last attack with a pivot onto the ledge because they're recovery can't land them onstage. Boom, stock taken; no need to use another attack and risk DI or a tricky fade-away recovery. Pivoting opens up that option where it otherwise wouldn't exist due to how slow your described method is. There are even times when you'll want to grab the ledge quickly to force them to barely recover onstage to ledgehop and punish their landing lag with an aerial, often dair.

I just noticed a few more things,
a method that works for EVERY character (good luck pivot edge-hogging with yoshi lol) first, then learning more advanced/character-specific ones later as you progress.
Yoshi's air speed is so high that he's probably better off short hopping while falling (sometimes delaying the fastfall) onto the ledge from most distances in an edgehog situation.
if you're already at the ledge you can't even pivot ledge-hog anyways, & do you really think it's easier, MUCH faster & more reliable to dash-dance pivot ledge-hog or to short-hop fast-fall? lol give me a break...
Depending on how well I'm playing, I'll switch between the two although as a Falcon main I prefer to dash away and then pivot ledgehog. I don't know the frame data for it but it certainly feels faster (probably only for Falcon but it felt fast with Samus). As long as it's a tech that you're comfortable with, go for it. Short hop fast fall is typically better but I see no reason why you even brought it up in your post because you were clearly talking about rolling to the ledge to short hop and fast fall onto the ledge. Cobr was saying that it's better to pivot in that situation. He never even mentioned the situation of already standing by the ledge, you brought it up.
 

Baby_Sneak

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If final destination was available in the actual game (no hacks), how would it affect match-ups and would this be a negative, positive, or just simply a change on how the game is played competitively?
 

MrMarbles

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If final destination was available in the actual game (no hacks), how would it affect match-ups and would this be a negative, positive, or just simply a change on how the game is played competitively?
i think it would be a pretty bland/boring stage to play on in 64 just cuz 64 is really much more dependent on platform movement compared to melee. it might open the game up to new combos that the plats would normally get in the way of tho so that might be cool. yoshi and fox would be top tier. Also it would be really hard to approach and would probably be really slow and defensive matches.
 

Baby_Sneak

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i think it would be a pretty bland/boring stage to play on in 64 just cuz 64 is really much more dependent on platform movement compared to melee. it might open the game up to new combos that the plats would normally get in the way of tho so that might be cool. yoshi and fox would be top tier. Also it would be really hard to approach and would probably be really slow and defensive matches.
i think it would be a pretty bland/boring stage to play on in 64 just cuz 64 is really much more dependent on platform movement compared to melee. it might open the game up to new combos that the plats would normally get in the way of tho so that might be cool. yoshi and fox would be top tier. Also it would be really hard to approach and would probably be really slow and defensive matches.
the reason why I ask this is because smash 4 right now looks very very uninteractive with Capt. awesome and others things with binery approaches and stuff and wondered if the game relied on platforms like smash 64
 
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