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Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
do people use shine-cancelling to reset the initial dash for techchasing?
I hadn´t played smash for like a month and I'm practicing it now on my friends. Don´t know how useful it is because they all suck (and so do i), but I can do it successfully around 50% of the time after one week of 45 minute daily practice.
 

Han Solo

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
1,277
Location
Midwest Corellia
Did you guys know you can fastfall during Falcon Punch (kind of)? It looks like it's after the hitbox comes out but before the whole animation is done. It looks funky.
 

mixa

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
Isle of ゆぅ
Yeah, Jigglypuff's pound works the same way.


do people use shine-cancelling to reset the initial dash for techchasing?
I remember Mahie or Fays talking about this the other day. I can't seem to do it for techchasing, but I use it to approach. TAS says it's not faster than simply running, but I think it works, maybe as a surprise element.
 

Yobolight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
1,126
I still don't REALLY understand the advantage of rolling against the ledge, but so many people do it.

Can someone explain to me the advantages of the maneuver?
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
I still don't REALLY understand the advantage of rolling against the ledge, but so many people do it.

Can someone explain to me the advantages of the maneuver?
Want to be on the very edge of the stage but face the center of the stage? Roll against it.

Why would you want to be in that position? Max horizontal range for your edgeguard. If you get knocked off the stage by the opponent's recovering attack you get to jump immediately and counter (unless its like kirby dair or something)
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
Peek used to do this thing a lot where he would get up from the ledge and roll backwards. It was kinda weird and functioned almost like a slow spotdodge. You get invincibility and stay in place. I guess it worked vs some people though pretty punishable if your opponent sees it coming. But I guess you could say the same thing about Melee/Brawl spotdodges. Anyway that's basically my point, you can use it like a slow spotdodge. Personally I find it questionable and wouldn't do it much, but Peek seemed to think it was worth doing, so who knows.
 

Gene

You're a vegetable
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,642
Location
NY
NNID
Fairlight92
3DS FC
3411-0266-8945
So I decided to get into Smash 64 competitive and was wondering what controllers does everyone prefer using? I really want to use the hori controller because the shape, closer button layout and size is something I like compared to the normal N64 controllers, plus it has a GameCube analog stick. I remember how surprised I was when I saw a guy at Apex 2012 using an orange one and I didn't know it existed til then. Though the normal controllers are still fine.
 

Fireblaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2003
Messages
1,859
Location
Storrs, Connecticut
Most use original n64 controllers. Hori is a decent solution for those used to gamecube controllers but it might mess with your muscle memory since sensitivity isn't exactly the same as GC. Some frauds people are planning to use USB devices at apex like xbox controllers and keyboards thanks to Karajan's adapter.
 

Gene

You're a vegetable
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,642
Location
NY
NNID
Fairlight92
3DS FC
3411-0266-8945
Yeah I think the Hori controller would be better suited for me since I use a GameCube controller for Brawl and PM so It could possibly be more comfortable.
 

Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
I remember Mahie or Fays talking about this the other day. I can't seem to do it for techchasing, but I use it to approach. TAS says it's not faster than simply running, but I think it works, maybe as a surprise element.

I'm going to keep working at it to see whats up
 

MrMarbles

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
1,381
Location
Orlando, FL
Yeah I think the Hori controller would be better suited for me since I use a GameCube controller for Brawl and PM so It could possibly be more comfortable.
hey whats up dude i played you last night on galaxy i believe! Hori is an alright choice but some people find that they feel strange for 64. But it might be better than wearing down a 64 joystick every few months
 

Gene

You're a vegetable
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,642
Location
NY
NNID
Fairlight92
3DS FC
3411-0266-8945
hey whats up dude i played you last night on galaxy i believe! Hori is an alright choice but some people find that they feel strange for 64. But it might be better than wearing down a 64 joystick every few months
I think you may have me mistaken for someone else. What's galaxy?
 

Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
I should've clarified what I asked. I meant shine-cancelled turn-arounds for techchasing instead of having to cover with lasers or hard reads
 

Gene

You're a vegetable
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,642
Location
NY
NNID
Fairlight92
3DS FC
3411-0266-8945
do u play online? i coulda sworn it was you
Not yet. I'm trying to get set up with Project 64k on my Macbook. And I'm ordering an N64 controller and a usb adapter. Hopefully smash 64 will run at normal speed on my laptop because I won't be able to play anyone til Apex 2014 (or at a smash fest), so since I started getting into smash bros competitive I could get to know some of the players here on smashboards . And it would be great to meet up in person when January comes.
 

Poleshoe

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
6
Location
Australia, Perth
Does the input speed ever affect the strength of DI? It seems like on occasion Smash DI will have a really big effect and move someone a lot, but to my understanding Smash DI would really only ever give one maybe two inputs. To that point, is Smash DI ever better than Slide DI, again it seems like Slide DI just has more potential for more inputs.
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
It matters until 80/128, ie 62.5% of range. Smash DI will give you the same distance per input past that number. Slide DI is conceptually the same as Smash DI, except you change directions to allow more inputs. It's like you smash DI, but since you change directions between every input, all of them are registered and you don't have to wait an empty frame in between (as you would with regular smash DI). Imagine you have a 10 frames hitstun move. Smash DI implies you have to alternate between empty frames and input frames, so you can have 5 DI input. Slide DI allows you to move every input, so you have 10. However, you can't say slide DI is exactly twice as good as smash DI most of the time. Imagine you want to slide DI left. You have to alternate between up left and down left. Because of the shape of the joystick turning (circle and not square), when you're up left or down left, the projection on the x-axis of your 80/128 of range makes it only 56.57 (cos(45)*80). So if you have a borderline range, even though smash DI could give you the maximal direction per input, slide DI wouldn't. So even if you have twice the number of inputs, it might not go as far.

Everything put in the balance, I still don't see a reason to smash DI over slide DI, especially since the range is rarely that low (or you wouldn't use that controller anyway).
 

KnitePhox

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,838
Location
Chicago, IL
DSing only occurs because of network quality; the emulators work fine. If someone who is in your game has an internet connection with bad quality, or the routing their connection takes to get to a given server or IP address is poor, game experience will suffer.

P2P/AQZ > Kaillera Servers
No packet limit using P2P, or non-emulinker servers. 2^16 packet limit on emulinker kaillera servers.

Emulinker "guaranteed DS/time-out" list/table
LAN=60packets per second ~18min 15sec per game session; LEAST(BEST!) delay
Excellent=30packets per second ~36min 30sec per game session; Lower delay
Good=20packets per second ~48min 45sec per game session; Median delay
Average=15packets per second ~73min per game session; high delay
Bad=10packets per second ~109min 30sec per game session; HIGHEST(WORST.) delay


above info (2^16) courtesy of the star king iirc







SHORT ANSWER, my sig link DS's less. PWNED
 

Madao

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
873
Why do people use PJ64kVE? Isn't it a mod of an older version of pk64k?
 

NTA

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
1,477
Location
(Decatur) Atlanta, GA
Well I remember a bunch of people's pj64 use to crash going online, which happened to me when I used to be on vista. I think the default plugin was jabo_direct3d7, so I'd just search for updated dll and renamed it to that. I don't know if it was just me, but the plugins used to switch from what I was using offline back to the default one during netplay so that was why I renamed it lol. The pj64 0.13 i downloaded back then from that tripod site (before it switched up its files), came with this

I think isai and gav used to use the jabo 3d6, because samus b move didn't appear and the shields look ****ty.

Though the normal controllers are still fine terrible.
Fixed
 

DMoogle

A$
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
2,366
Location
Northern VA, USA
DSing only occurs because of network quality; the emulators work fine. If someone who is in your game has an internet connection with bad quality, or the routing their connection takes to get to a given server or IP address is poor, game experience will suffer.

P2P/AQZ > Kaillera Servers
No packet limit using P2P, or non-emulinker servers. 2^16 packet limit on emulinker kaillera servers.

Emulinker "guaranteed DS/time-out" list/table
LAN=60packets per second ~18min 15sec per game session; LEAST(BEST!) delay
Excellent=30packets per second ~36min 30sec per game session; Lower delay
Good=20packets per second ~48min 45sec per game session; Median delay
Average=15packets per second ~73min per game session; high delay
Bad=10packets per second ~109min 30sec per game session; HIGHEST(WORST.) delay


above info (2^16) courtesy of the star king iirc







SHORT ANSWER, my sig link DS's less. PWNED
Couldn't the packet limit be removed/set very high? Is the source code available? I always wondered why this was never fixed.
 

NovaSmash

Banned via Administration
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
2,012
Location
Marietta, Ga
3DS FC
2079-8171-3301
Can someone tell me how to jab grab? Like when I try to jab grab with mario I press A and then R and I just end up jabbing twice. How do people do it so quick and consistent. Maybe it's my controller that's messed up.
 

mixa

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
Isle of ゆぅ
SHORT ANSWER, my sig link DS's less.
Yeah, I think I've been using that for a while. I also read JaimeHR's thread on how to minimize DS, but it seems it depends on the internet connection, really. ):
I have to use P2P because the servers are so bad - and they've all stopped working month ago.

I'll try that AQZ input plugin and if that doesn't do much, I'll try Mupen 0.8k.

There is no way to save progress while playing online, right? I was playing story mode with 2 players and the desynchs reset the whole thing it's so discouraging lol.
 

KnitePhox

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,838
Location
Chicago, IL
I'll try that AQZ input plugin and if that doesn't do much, I'll try Mupen 0.8k.

There is no way to save progress while playing online, right? I was playing story mode with 2 players and the desynchs reset the whole thing it's so discouraging lol.
AQZ is multiplayer P2P, it's possible to play with multiple people on 1 or 2 PCs; there is also theoretical infinite observers after 4 players have been reached. all players must use the EXACT same save file for a given game in order to play with each other and not DS. port numbering is based on who joins earliest and how many controllers their emulator has "plugged in".

for each following scenario: a save file is distributed by any player to other players as to have synced save files, or all players delete their save files as to be synced to a new save.
scenario 1: player 1 hosts. players 1, 2, 3, 4 are all on different PCs and p2, 3, 4 have to join p1; each with only 1 controller "plugged in" (most common)
scenario 2:observer 1 hosts. observer 1 has no controller plugged in. players 1 and 2 join using the same PC with 2 controllers "plugged in" then observers 2 and 3 join each on different PCs with no controllers "plugged in" then player 3 joins with 1 controller "plugged in" then observer 4 joins with no controller "plugged in" and finally player 4 joins with 1 controller "plugged in"

LOL example. that's how you can do stuff with AQZ. scenario 1 is far more likely to be used, but if you want to take turns playing a 1p game for example (SUP, LD.) you can have 1 player with a plugged controller and 2 or 5 or 8234567 observers.

resetting (via save distribute or deletion) is critical for no DSs in AQZ
 

Pooncahontas

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
107
Location
Perth, Australia
Can someone tell me how to jab grab? Like when I try to jab grab with mario I press A and then R and I just end up jabbing twice. How do people do it so quick and consistent. Maybe it's my controller that's messed up.
It has to be within 2 or 3 frames I believe, to be able to cancel the jab.
So you have to press A then R in very quick succession.
3frames @ 60 fps = 0.05s between A & R. (unconfirmed)

QUESTIONS

- Is it possible to attack an opponent after you have broken their shield, but before they've returned to the ground? (or SKO'd -> Jiggs)
- Is there a thread/info on amount of hitstun recieved from different moves/at different %s?
- Does anyone else find that there is a certain % that seems to occur far more often than any other? (for my friends and I, 137% comes up all the time)
- What is the purpose of Mario missing a grab in the 'How to Play' sequence?
- Has anyone ever maxed all the stats in the Stats menu? (I recently capped Falcon's SDs at 9999 on one of my carts.)
- Why is the postgame music, (the one that plays when you're in the points screen after Master Hand), not in the music menu? It's the bes :c
- When Slide DI-ing, is it better to mash slide during the combo/move, or do a single well timed slide when the move hits?

Please answer some of these!
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
1) they are invincible until they land.

2) try Madao's calculator

3) well it's only a matter of combination between the moves you use more often.

4) to make it look like a real match. Lol I donmt know.

5-6) dunno.

7) I personally slide like crazy, because timing is often harder and to the detriment of speed.
 

bloodpeach

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
346
Location
Philadelphia PA
Is it possible to attack an opponent after you have broken their shield, but before they've returned to the ground?

No, directly after shield break the player is intangible (ignores collisions with everything except the stage). You can see it for yourself in hitbox mode.

EDIT: ****in mods
 
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