Arle Nadja, Puyo Popper Extraordinaire pops into Smash Bros.! (New Management!)

[amageish]

Well, here's a plot twist.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._battle_royale_game_tetris_99_later_this_week

Me: Why is this in the Arle thread?

Comment 1: Poyo Poyo Tetris

Me: Ooooooooooooooooooh.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Sorry, I've been busy with stuff. Anyways, kaithehedgefox ... You're officially a member of the Puyo-popping experience! Congrats!

Thanks! Arle would definitely make a better addition than Terry, but I like Terry's inclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks! Arle would definitely make a better addition than Terry, but I like Terry's inclusion.

Definitely! Arle is better than let's say: Waluigi, Shadow, Ashley, Scorpion, Sora, Kratos, even better and stronger to survive in SSB than any of the characters i mentioned.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Definitely! Arpe is better than let's say: Waluigi, Shadow, Ashley, Scorpion, Sora, Kratos, even better and stronger to survive in SSB than any of the characters i mentioned.

I still want all of those characters. Scorpion is also one of my most wanted 3rd party primary reps.

 

[amageish]

Not to be "that guy," but let's keep the thread focused on how cool Arle would be in her own right and not on how she stacks up to other requested characters in our subjective headsets, shall we?

Anyway, this has been discussed before, but what are people's thoughts on the best stage for Arle? Hailing from a puzzle game with a VN-style story, she's kind of in a unique position, as she's representing two genres not really represented thus far in Smash. They could go for a retro-style stage a la Pac-Maze or Duck Hunt, with you playing among falling puyo, or they could go for a stage based on one of the actual locales. Or both, depending on if its a locale known for being filled with puyo haha.

 

[Deleted member]

I have been thinking about Primp town as a stage. For Arle's other stuff, i have something in mind for something like this. If no echo fighter is in sight, Amitie can be an Alt. Skin for Arle (Like Alph to Olimar, The Koopalings to Bowser, and Erdrick Solo and Eight to Eleven). If the Alt. Skin route is confirmed, i can see Ringo as Arle's Alt. Skin and Ally as another Alt. Skin, although i would like that to be Raffina.

I am not talking about Arle using someone else's paint job scheme, i am talking about Amitie, Raffina (or Ally), and Ringo as Arle's Alt. Skins, just like how you can play as Morton Koopa via Bowser Jr. Alt skin or Erdrick as Eleven Alt. Skin. And don't worry, Arle and her Alt. Skins can have their own fighter spirits, and the 4 final Alts. Can have the 4 characters wearing their 20th Anniversary outfits.

 

[Looma]

Not to be "that guy," but let's keep the thread focused on how cool Arle would be in her own right and not on how she stacks up to other requested characters in our subjective headsets, shall we?

Anyway, this has been discussed before, but what are people's thoughts on the best stage for Arle? Hailing from a puzzle game with a VN-style story, she's kind of in a unique position, as she's representing two genres not really represented thus far in Smash. They could go for a retro-style stage a la Pac-Maze or Duck Hunt, with you playing among falling puyo, or they could go for a stage based on one of the actual locales. Or both, depending on if its a locale known for being filled with puyo haha.

I still vouch for the Tower as the best possible Puyo stage, as it can easily represent both aspects of the series. It's full of cameo potential and it's the premiere place where Puyo battles are happening.

Plus the way towers are structured lends itself to vast backgrounds, which I think would be a great place for a nice view of Primp Town among other locales.

 

[Deleted member]

We got our character pick, and a stage. What about which spirits would make it in, and What Mii outfits will be in?

Arle is our fighter so she will be a Fighter Spirit, purely just for show and a Classic Mode reward, doesn't aid you in Spirit Battles because she will be playable. Amitie can either be an Echo fighter or an Alt. Skin for Arle, and either way, Amitie will be a Fighter Spirit because she will be playable if an Echo slot or an Alt. Skin for Arle is to be confirmed. Ringo is somewhat complicated. Some people expected her to be an Assist trophy, since they think Ringo is NOT on par with Arle and Amitie, but if Ringo is confirmed to be playable, i'd say she should be an Alt. Skin for Arle, that way, Ringo will be a Fighter Spirit if she is an Arle Alt. Skin, same goes to Amitie if she is also an Arle Alt. Skin.

For assist trophies, i think either Schezo or Lemres. Schezo can also make a good Mii Swordsman Outfit, And since i see Schezo as an Assist trophy, his spirit might be either Primary or Support. If he is a Primary spirit, he should be an Attack type, but if he is a Support spirit, he should boost your Sword Attack. Share your thoughts on which Puyo Puyo character will be the spirits and Mii costumes.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I've found out something pretty significant!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

It's not even an oversight, I'd wager.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

I would love a Rulue Mii costume for
Brawler, she is the fighting queen after all.

And also
something for Raffina if she can't be playable.

 

[Deleted member]

A crossover artwork made by one of my friends on Deviantart. This shows how he really wants Arle in SSBU, along with Adeleine and Ribbon, whocare not seen as Spirits, and Load Ran from SNK's Twinkle Star Sprites.

I'd go for Alt skins of Amitie, Raffina, and Ringo just so Arle isn't lonely in the fight. I mean, Why would Arle steal Amitie, Raffina, and Ringo's paint job schemes if Amitie, Raffine, and Ringo can just be Arle's Alt. Character, similar to the Koopalings to Bowser Jr., Alph to Olimar, and Erdrick, Solo, and Eight to Eleven from Dragon Quest. That way, Amitie, Raffina, and Ringo can still be Fighter spirits without having to be an Echo fighter or taking up a character slot.

 

[meleebrawler]

If they get to Puyo Puyo in Sega Heroes, who do you all think they'd add? Going by the pattern of three heroes + one villain, I'd say Arle as blue, Amitie as yellow, Ringo as red and Dark Prince as green.

 

[smashkirby]

If they get to Puyo Puyo in Sega Heroes, who do you all think they'd add? Going by the pattern of three heroes + one villain, I'd say Arle as blue, Amitie as yellow, Ringo as red and Dark Prince as green.

Uh, I'm pretty sure Puyo Puyo is already in SEGA Heroes. In fact, I think Arle, Amitie, Ringo, Carbuncle, Satan, Witch, and (I think as of just yesterday) Rulue are in the game now.

 

[Jave]

Someone made another potential moveset for Arle, complete with fanart.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[meleebrawler]

Uh, I'm pretty sure Puyo Puyo is already in SEGA Heroes. In fact, I think Arle, Amitie, Ringo, Carbuncle, Satan, Witch, and (I think as of just yesterday) Rulue are in the game now.

Is this a Japan-only thing? I only see Sonic The Hedgehog, Golden Axe, Shinobi, Streets Of Rage, Phantasy Star, Super Monkey Ball, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, House Of The Dead, Valkyria Chronicles, Shenmue, and most recently Altered Beast represented. Or are you thinking of some different mobile game?

There's a list here: https://www.sega.com/games/segaheroes

No Puyo Puyo to be found yet.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Came across this from an occasional Twitter pixel artist.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

How many can you name?

 

[amageish]

I still vouch for the Tower as the best possible Puyo stage, as it can easily represent both aspects of the series. It's full of cameo potential and it's the premiere place where Puyo battles are happening.

Plus the way towers are structured lends itself to vast backgrounds, which I think would be a great place for a nice view of Primp Town among other locales.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Given Mementos, Spiral Tower, and seemingly the King of Fighters Tournament, I imagine that DLC getting cameo characters in the stage is going to be a motif. It'd be cool to see Puyo battles go on in the background.

We got our character pick, and a stage. What about which spirits would make it in, and What Mii outfits will be in?

It honestly depends on the potential alts, but I think a Carbuncle hat is a safe bet after Morgana and Slime. I also would bet on Amitie and Ringo getting some sort of Mii costume at least.

Someone made another potential moveset for Arle, complete with fanart.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That moveset is really unique and I love the art style! Only problem is that Kirby is used as the punching bag. That is cruel and cannot be forgiven.

 

[smashkirby]

Is this a Japan-only thing? I only see Sonic The Hedgehog, Golden Axe, Shinobi, Streets Of Rage, Phantasy Star, Super Monkey Ball, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, House Of The Dead, Valkyria Chronicles, Shenmue, and most recently Altered Beast represented. Or are you thinking of some different mobile game?

There's a list here: https://www.sega.com/games/segaheroes

No Puyo Puyo to be found yet.

Sorry, you're right. I think I'm thinking of another SEGA crossover game on mobile phones. But if it's not SEGA Heroes, I'm not sure what the game is.

 

[Deleted member]

That makes a lot of sense to me. Given Mementos, Spiral Tower, and seemingly the King of Fighters Tournament, I imagine that DLC getting cameo characters in the stage is going to be a motif. It'd be cool to see Puyo battles go on in the background.

It honestly depends on the potential alts, but I think a Carbuncle hat is a safe bet after Morgana and Slime. I also would bet on Amitie and Ringo getting some sort of Mii costume at least.

That moveset is really unique and I love the art style! Only problem is that Kirby is used as the punching bag. That is cruel and cannot be forgiven.

Should have been Yoshi and Pikachu for a Rival puzzle Game Arle could potentially battle!

 

[Ridrool64]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7fR3H_efm83ChzNgXkhPOVl_BIU_lcTs

I released this to Twitter first, but now it's here! I decided to make an easy playlist of what I think the top 24 songs would be. (Also, there's two versions of the same victory theme, because one is longer. And an extra song that only plays under specific conditions on Arle's stage.)

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Arle is my most want since Melee alongside Ayumi.
I think now she is definitely the top contender for the next set of DLC.
However, her biggest issue is still the copyrights problem. If I understand correctly, the rights for Madou Monogatari (so her name Nadja, her old design, her ability to fight in general, and her spells) belong to D4Enterprise, the rights to sale Madou Monogatari belong to Compile Heart, and the rights for Puyopuyo belong to Sega.
I personally prefer Arle to represent a good amount of Madou Monogatari elements, but to make herself as a fighter in a fighting game, I believe D4E has to be on board as well.
I said it's the biggest issue for Arle, but now they somehow managed to get Dragon Quest of all thing in smash so I'm very hopeful for her future. The problem still remains but it's not a huge blocking wall than used to be.
Alter proved that Sega and D4E can work together to bring back old Arle(ish) design. I'm hoping her smash render to be like this.
https://alter-web.jp/products/222/

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also, Sega is treating her as one of their biggest mascot (and of course they name Puyopuyo before Sonic!), she has to make into smash at this point.

I wasnt aware stuff like fire ball, ice storm, and bayoen were owned by D4
This is the first i've heard of it. I thought they just owned the rights to the madou series.

I dont believe their ever credited in any puyo puyo games every time arle uses a spell though.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I wasnt aware stuff like fire ball, ice storm, and bayoen were owned by D4
This is the first i've heard of it. I thought they just owned the rights to the madou series.

I dont believe their ever credited in any puyo puyo games every time arle uses a spell though.

I guess I didn't word it correctly.
Apparently the spells in Madou Monogatari and Puyopuyo shares their names but latter cannot be used as magic to attack people directly while the former can. Something along this line is often brought up among Arle supporters in Japan.
And I think that was during Puyopuyo Quest livestream, Mizuki Hosoyamada mentioned that he tried to make Puyopuyo fighting game but the higher-ups stopped him. He didn't state why but people in smash community were saying since Brawl era that Arle needs Madou Monogatari rights to actually "attack" opponent in any form.
However I don't think this won't be that much of issue anymore if it's true or not. Smash already changed DQ's rules. Of course Sega wouldn't turn down when Sakurai walks up to them.

 

[meleebrawler]

I guess I didn't word it correctly.
Apparently the spells in Madou Monogatari and Puyopuyo shares their names but latter cannot be used as magic to attack people directly while the former can. Something along this line is often brought up among Arle supporters in Japan.
And I think that was during Puyopuyo Quest livestream, Mizuki Hosoyamada mentioned that he tried to make Puyopuyo fighting game but the higher-ups stopped him. He didn't state why but people in smash community were saying since Brawl era that Arle needs Madou Monogatari rights to actually "attack" opponent in any form.

I feel like this is the setup to a joke in the Puyo Puyo universe, some random lawyer type stopping Arle from casting certain spells before escalating to mundane actions.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I feel like this is the setup to a joke in the Puyo Puyo universe, some random lawyer type stopping Arle from casting certain spells before escalating to mundane actions.

Reminds me of that time the YT user AlphaOmegaSin joked about how Capcom could charge you every time you wanted to do any sort of attack.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I guess I didn't word it correctly.
Apparently the spells in Madou Monogatari and Puyopuyo shares their names but latter cannot be used as magic to attack people directly while the former can. Something along this line is often brought up among Arle supporters in Japan.
And I think that was during Puyopuyo Quest livestream, Mizuki Hosoyamada mentioned that he tried to make Puyopuyo fighting game but the higher-ups stopped him. He didn't state why but people in smash community were saying since Brawl era that Arle needs Madou Monogatari rights to actually "attack" opponent in any form.
However I don't think this won't be that much of issue anymore if it's true or not. Smash already changed DQ's rules. Of course Sega wouldn't turn down when Sakurai walks up to them.

So they also dont own her last name either?

thats some ridiculous amount papers that needs to be signed. Id assume when sega just bought all the madou character they wouldve you know

taken everything

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

No wonder why the latest Puyos save on money, they pay so many rights before they can even do anything with the Madou characters.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

No wonder why the latest Puyos save on money, they pay so many rights before they can even do anything with the Madou characters.

Thats the weird thing since alot of Madou characters have been appearing more often now

 

[smashkirby]

I guess I didn't word it correctly.
Apparently the spells in Madou Monogatari and Puyopuyo shares their names but latter cannot be used as magic to attack people directly while the former can. Something along this line is often brought up among Arle supporters in Japan.
And I think that was during Puyopuyo Quest livestream, Mizuki Hosoyamada mentioned that he tried to make Puyopuyo fighting game but the higher-ups stopped him. He didn't state why but people in smash community were saying since Brawl era that Arle needs Madou Monogatari rights to actually "attack" opponent in any form.
However I don't think this won't be that much of issue anymore if it's true or not. Smash already changed DQ's rules. Of course Sega wouldn't turn down when Sakurai walks up to them.

Oh my goodness! Are you serous??? Excuse me, but where did you get all this info?

 

[Jave]

I'm pretty positive SEGA owns the character of Arle, stock and barrel, to the point that they can do whatever they want with her. Copyright rules can be complicated, but when it comes to ownership, you either own the character or you don't. If a character has shared ownership (like all Pokemon), then it's required for all companies to reach an agreement when using that character and how. Compile as a company no longer exists, so any ownership they could have had still of Arle and the Puyo Puyo series died with them, and the logical thing is that SEGA fully owns it.

SEGA higher-ups not wanting to do a Puyo fighting game is likely due to them wanting to keep the series true to its roots and, well, they probably don't like the idea of a cast of cute little kids fighting each other with actual physical and magical attacks. Specially considering the whole point of Puyo battles is that they replace fighting. (Of course this doesn't apply to Smash since that's the game everybody wants to get into, and it works as a vehicle to help promote all the series featured in it)

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

They are just rumors but heavily said whenever Arle for smash talks occur.

From what I can gather, it seems D4E has the right for MM's game system itself and Sega has the rights for Puyo's game system. I think the story of Arle can't use her magic to attack people is coming from here.
And on top of that, Puyo characters are not allowed to have any violence actions. "No hitting, no bashing". This was also the infamous rule known by fans but it did get confirmed by Hosoyamada himself saying that Puyopuyo fighting game was cancelled due to its violency and the higher-ups stopped him. This was 2017.
He was also saying that Puyo Quest's users are more than 50% women and widely spreaded from kids to seniors. Maybe this is a one of reason they don't want Puyo characters to fight in actual combat.
I think these stories surrounding Puyo got clearer around that time because Niitani himself was revealing a lot on TV shows. I remember seeing him explaining about Puyo's situation couple of times on TV.
When Compile asked Sega for a billion loan, Sega took only Puyo's rights as a guarantee. So they didn't buy it directly according to Niitani. Apparently Sega didn't fully own Puyo's rights until 2015. MM, on the other hand, since Sega didn't ask for it, the rights eventually passed to Aiki then to D4E.

I can't confirm these are 100% concrete but this kind of story is always popping up in Japanese smash community.

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/amp.index.html
https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ぷよぷよ
https://dic.nicovideo.jp/t/a/魔導物語
https://games.yahoo.co.jp/qa/detail?qid=12199147842

 

[Captain Shwampy]

When Compile asked Sega for a billion loan, Sega took only Puyo's rights as a guarantee. So they didn't buy it directly according to Niitani. Apparently Sega didn't fully own Puyo's rights until 2015. MM, on the other hand, since Sega didn't ask for it, the rights eventually passed to Aiki then to D4E.

I can't confirm these are 100% concrete but this kind of story is always popping up in Japanese smash community.

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/amp.index.html
https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ぷよぷよ
https://dic.nicovideo.jp/t/a/魔導物語
https://games.yahoo.co.jp/qa/detail?qid=12199147842

That explains why Amitie and the sonic team characters were used more often in marketing and crossovers

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Remember, those rumors are old.
The demands for Arle really blew up when Sonic made into Smash in Brawl. The issues were talked since then.
But now, all the situations are certainly have changed.
There is a theory says that only newly designed Arle is the one cannot fight directly in combat but old MM based design Arle can.
Arle is written only "Arle" in Sega made Puyos (after Fever). But in Compile Puyos even they are published by Sega, her name is written "Arle Nadja" (in remakes too). So they are clearly differentiating the two.
If they are recognizing and treating "Arle" and "Arle Nadja" as the different chracters, may be that rule "no hitting" only applies to Sega Arle.
So if Sakurai manage to pull out "Arle Nadja" from old Puyos which are now fully owned by Sega, they might be able to dodge that rule.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I dont think sega would allow the compile design over the design they've been using for everything for almost 2 decades

 

[Ridrool64]

Besides, Sakurai managed to do stuff like get not only four Dragon Quest protags in the same game, but have them be playable at the same time (usually they're not allowed to be at the same place at the same time, source). So, I don't think that this is going to be an impossible obstacle.

I've had a personal theory that Arle has been Japan's most wanted SEGA character since at least 2013 (when PPQ launched and made the series big), but I wouldn't have guessed it'd pick up that much steam until after both Sonic already happened and more than one third party character from the same company was a thing (Ryu). The revelation that Bayonetta's Japanese results were never released (she was said to be top 5 in NA and the number one of European regions) leads me to believe she wasn't the best performing out of SEGA's lineup.

So then Ultimate comes around. Despite the fact that SEGA has been trying far harder to get Puyo Puyo to succeed in the west, as of this moment nothing has come of it. The ship on SEGA Mii Costumes has sailed, and there are no new series from it. The SEGA solo Assist is Akira Yuki of Virtua Fighter fame. And, even the first DLC Fighter went to Persona 5's Joker, to which many believe means she is not a part of the pass. And yet... Dragon Quest just got Fire Emblem'd into being popular. And moreover, the west has been dominating fan requests throughout the game, and not only do we have no female unique human newcomers, Bayonetta remains our sole third party female this far. Considering the big popularity Puyo has with both Japan and women (even worldwide in the latter case), I can't imagine Sakurai or Nintendo simply passing it up. I am certain she was on the table, even if the concept didn't go anywhere.

Oh and btw here's this: https://twitter.com/ArleForSmash/status/1175917361326632966 (PC Mod for Champions, release date TBA with a window of before Christmas 2019)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I mean really, you break the biggest unspoken DQ rule in history, then turn around and comply for demand to just stick to a modern look? If this was Brawl, it'd be different. It's not like you can't have both outfits.

Also, you can pretty much suggest anything on that survey Sega released a while back...

 

[smashkirby]

Man, I am learning SO much about the supposed legal issues regarding Puyo Puyo and Madou Monogatari right now. Like, I always wondered about the legal stuff regarding Arle and the rest of the Compile-created cast.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

The issue with compile design being an alt is that there clearly anatomically different from the ST design. They're vastly different art styles.

If you want the yo~n design that just going to be a Link/ Toon Link situation rather then a alt costume

I guess her design from SUN could work within the same skeletal structure of ST Arle?

 

[Sunredo]

Just want to drop by to support, picked up Champions when it was on sale an have been really enjoying it. Still suck at playing it though.

 

[Deleted member]

For once, i wish Sakurai disregard the Western Fan demand and focus on the OBSCURE Characters from Japan. Even if the concept of Extra DLC fighters sems good on paper and opens the opportunity for our brave knightess-mage Arle to debut in Super Smash Bros, third Party overinclusion like this, if keeps up, will potentially do more HARM to the series than good. I had enough of these Western gaming demands to Smash Bros. Don't get me wrong, Arle NEEDS to be included in Smash Bros so that Nintendo has NO OTHER CHOICE bit to balance her inclusion by LITERALLY announcing Lip from Panel de Pon to rival her.

I just wish Smash Bros returns to a Nintendo only celebration. But until then, Arle for Smash must keep going! We cannot simply give up yet!

 

[Sunredo]

For once, i wish Sakurai disregard the Western Fan demand and focus on the OBSCURE Characters from Japan. Even if the concept of Extra DLC fighters sems good on paper and opens the opportunity for our brave knightess-mage Arle to debut in Super Smash Bros, third Party overinclusion like this, if keeps up, will potentially do more HARM to the series than good. I had enough of these Western gaming demands to Smash Bros. Don't get me wrong, Arle NEEDS to be included in Smash Bros so that Nintendo has NO OTHER CHOICE bit to balance her inclusion by LITERALLY announcing Lip from Panel de Pon to rival her.

I just wish Smash Bros returns to a Nintendo only celebration. But until then, Arle for Smash must keep going! We cannot simply give up yet!

I never understood why but there's a lot of westerners who have this "vision" of what they think Smash is supposed to be. Like, a lot of the requests end up being a platforming character or a cartoonish character because they "fit" the game more. I never got this because this is the same game with Solid Snake in it so it doesn't make any sense.