Are you dissapointed Dark Pit was a clone?

[LancerStaff]

It's fair with the Miis. They are SUPPOSED to be customizable. Palutena on the other hand, has nothing to do with player customization, and was a stupid decision to make to giver so many specials.

Also, word of warning, multi-posting is frowned upon. You can multi-quote in a single post.

Palutena controls Pit's powers, and powers themselves are customization. And besides, that's her primary gimmick. Like Kirby's power copying.

 

[AnchorTea]

Dark Pit's model has Dark Pit's staff pointing like a gun, and judging by the size of Pit amiibo and the package.... How the heck would it work?!

It would look really awesome though....

 

[LEGOfan12]

Either make a bigger box or nerf the size of his staff.

 

[Tino]

I'm disappointed people are whining and complaining about him being in the game in general. Plus I've heard some people actually wanted him to be playable before the game came out so him being a clone of Pit shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

 

[Altais]

Given the myriad of weapons and items in Kid Icarus: Uprising, I think Dark Pit had more than enough potential to be completely unique from Pit, in terms of playstyle. That said, I was definitely a little disappointed that he was a nearly identical clone, but at the same time not surprised.

I honestly think Dark Pit was originally intended to be an alternate costume for Pit (similar to Alph and Olimar, Robin and Robin), but at the last minute they decided to make him into a quick and easy clone. [Shrugs] Assuming this is the case, in all honesty I wish they HAD gone with the original plan, since Dark Pit, as he is now, doesn't really bring anything new.

 

[LancerStaff]

Maybe you'll have to snap it on yourself?

 

[AnchorTea]

Maybe you'll have to snap it on yourself?

Your username is ironic.

Idk about giving him the staff. It seems like something that could actually happen, but it probably won't.

 

[LancerStaff]

Assuming this is the case, in all honesty I wish they HAD gone with the original plan, since Dark Pit, as he is now, doesn't really bring anything new.

Well, the big thing he offers is a counterpick option for Pit. The problem is that he wasn't really well balanced to Pit... Their Arms are roughly equal but Pit's Bow is just 1000 times better.

 

[Leafeon523]

Maybe they will use a different pose for dark pit.

 

[Deleted member]

Shulk's amiibo in the package is at a different angle than Shulk's render, so it could be possible that they will put Dark Pit's amiibo in the package in such a way that the staff would fit. Maybe have it rotated so that in the package, the staff is pointing to the side instead of straight like in the render. And due to the angle his face is at, it would still be (slightly) visible when you look it straight on.

 

[MonadoMaster64]

This is something I've been wanting to get off my chest for a long time. When people bring up the short comings in Sm4sh, dark pit seems to come up for no particular reason. He was originally going to be an alternate costume like Lucina and Dr.Mario but since there was extra development time, Sakurai decided to make them separate characters, but apparently this did more bad than good. Idk, could someone just explain to me why dark pit is like the spawn of Medusa (see what I did there) when it come to mentioning smash 4's roster?

 

[_gold_]

Not sure. I suppose there's just too many clones in SSB4, and Dark Pit seems to take all the beating for it.

 

[Buffoon]

From what I understand; many players (myself included) have a difficult time spotting the differences between him and Pit, compared to Lucina and Dr. Mario who's differences to their originals are very obvious in comparison. Or maybe people dislike his smugness.

 

[Wintropy]

People need a scapegoat to vent their frustrations and inequities.

Dark Pit is the hero we deserve, but not the hero we need.

 

[Frostwraith]

People want an excuse to bash something about the game, so they always come up with the "muh clones" and "muh Sakurai bias" stuff to back their arguments.

The inclusion of those clones, made in spare development time that didn't leave much to do besides variations of existing characters out of already done, may not add much to the game, but aren't a detriment to its quality either, given they're just bonus additions.

Before I leave this thread, allow me to just point at the quote found in my signature and anticipate the inevitable arguing and lock.

 

[FalKoopa]

I've moved it to the Dark Pit forums. Suffice to say that this topic has been gone over hundreds of times, and flames might take place.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

COMMENCE THE CIRCLEJERK.

BLAHBLAHBLAH SAKURAI SUCKS AND DARK PIT DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH CHANGES FROM PIT TO WARRANT TAKING A SEPARATE CHARACTER SLOT
UNLIKE THE OTHER CLONES THIS ONE IS TOO SIMILAR AND PLAYS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME.
LUCINA AND DR. MARIO DO NOT PLAY LIKE THEIR COUNTERPARTS BECAUSE DOC IS TOO SLOW AND LUCINA HAS MORE FLEXIBILITY IN HER SPACING (THOUGH HER SPACING STILL SUCKS CUZ SHORT SWORD)

Is this the discussion you were looking for?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I actually only think he could've been a bit more different so they could have more unique meta games. Perhaps this is where some of it comes from. Not that many are so mad he's a clone so much as his differences are a bit too little. His existence isn't really all that bothersome. But barely having enough difference to the point it's actually outright impossible to play them much differently is a little silly. I can see what they mean. Just having them a bit more different would help their meta game evolve more. There's more options that way. Currently, their meta games are pretty much the same, which doesn't do much for the game in itself. So a patch to differentiate them a bit more(just some damage or knockback differences could help quite a bit) would be fairly nice. And if it doesn't happen, fair enough.

I'm fine with him as is. I just prefer Pit's Brawl fighting style so neither character does much for me, that's all. I do like their Arm moves, though. They're pretty sweet. I do like them though, regardless. Those arrows work well.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's amazing how many people you can shut up by pointing out Pittwo only has three different moves and that their Alph/Dark Samus/Dixie would have to have the same.

I can see what they were trying to do with him, but it kinda fell short. Pit was supposed to focus on the arrows while Dark Pit has the Arm. But the Electroshock is just too hard to use effectively against most characters. Maybe if it had more reach, had less aerial lag, or had a much lower KB angle, we'd see him get used in more then just vs Ike/Shulk/Mac matchups. I'd reduce the aerial lag myself, then we could do crazy stuff like stage spiking Fox.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh goody not this thread again....
Oh well Frostwraith more or less put everything up nicely.

I wonder if people would have still been butthurt if Dark Pit (As well as the other two clones) remained as alts but kept these changes.....

 

[Dre89]

It's not just that he's a clone that's almost identical to the original. It's that he's literally just a palette swap who was in one mildly successful game before Smash 4 (2 games if you count the black Pit palette in brawl). There's also the clear KI bias. It's not just that he's biasing a specific franchise. It's that a franchise so tiny and insignificant in Nintendo's history is getting so much content in what is supposed to be a celebration of Nintendo's best IPs. All because he was involved in that franchise. Even within KI he heavily biased his own game, there's virtually no content from the original game.

People would've been a lot happier if an iconic character with history like Dixie got in as a semi-clone instead. You know, a character that was actually highly requested and is more famous for her actual games than for association with Smash.

 

[Wintropy]

Nobody would ever have gotten in over Dark Pit. Nobody was intended to be there in the first place.

That's the crux of the matter, and yet people still refuse to accept that fact. The closest we could have had would be Alph, and even he was not technically feasible in the time remaining.

EDIT: Serious suggestion, can we get a "Dark Pit whining / defense thread" like the Diddy board has? It's pretty sad that it should even come to that, but if it keeps threads like these to a minimum and discussion mitigated towards a particular venue, it may be beneficial for the community.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's not just that he's a clone that's almost identical to the original. It's that he's literally just a palette swap who was in one mildly successful game before Smash 4 (2 games if you count the black Pit palette in brawl). There's also the clear KI bias. It's not just that he's biasing a specific franchise. It's that a franchise so tiny and insignificant in Nintendo's history is getting so much content in what is supposed to be a celebration of Nintendo's best IPs. All because he was involved in that franchise. Even within KI he heavily biased his own game, there's virtually no content from the original game.

People would've been a lot happier if an iconic character with history like Dixie got in as a semi-clone instead. You know, a character that was actually highly requested and is more famous for her actual games than for association with Smash.

How could Dixie have ever been made instead when Dark Pit only has three different moves and no new move animations? Dixie doesn't even have a tail...

Dark Pit isn't as valuable as a whole character, not even close. Go whine to the Doc/Lucina boards if you want your Dixie so bad. It's laughable that you think it's an even trade.

Then there's the fact that Smash is about what works and not about "fair" representation. There's no such thing as fair in the real world. The items and enemies are straight from Sakurai's head, meaning they would of been in Smash had KIU been created or not. Does it really matter who's name is on an item? 99% of players just see it as content and are grateful.

The Uprising content got in over the NES game's just because it's more unique. What, are you disappointed we didn't get another variation of a foot soldier?

We don't need redundant content for "fairness." Ultra Bitter Spray from Pikmin would be similar to the Freezys and Pitfalls we have already. Rambi would be the same thing as Gogoat. Dixie didn't get in because she'd be mostly the same as Diddy, but would require much more effort to be a clone then the ones we have. She couldn't of been a true costume-character either, again because of the lack of a tail. Dixie failed to get in because of the poor time to unique content ratio.

And Dark Pit was highly requested, and the most popular costume for Pit to boot. People specifically suggested him because he'd be an easy clone.

 

[Donut Steel]

From the mentality of the more entitled members of the Smash Community, Dark Pit basically represents everything that could go wrong with a character reveal. He's an effortless palette swap, he's from a game that Sakurai worked on, he's a clone, he's from a recent game instead of a cult classic, he's a clone character, he represents the faux 'edgy' aesthetic, he's the reason Lucas/Roy/Wolf isn't in the game... there's an entire laundry list of issues and complaints. And they're all pretty much petty or bull**** or misunderstood reasons. But people are going to bleat and squeal and rage against Dark Pit's inclusion anyways because they were going to complain about something, whether they claim to or not. Dark Pit was simply the perfect rallying point.

 

[Speculator]

He's the only character that's a literal clone of somebody already on the roster. Not only is he far more similar to Pit than Lucy/Doc are to Marth/Mario, but he's from a series with hardly three games to its name. We all know why he's there and it has nothing to do with being intended as a last-minute palette swap. I love SSB4, and KI:U for that matter, but there's no way I could defend such a character inclusion. He's the only character that I believe actually devalues the roster.

 

[LancerStaff]

He's the only character that's a literal clone of somebody already on the roster. Not only is he far more similar to Pit than Lucy/Doc are to Marth/Mario, but he's from a series with hardly three games to its name. We all know why he's there and it has nothing to do with being intended as a last-minute palette swap. I love SSB4, and KI:U for that matter, but there's no way I could defend such a character inclusion. He's the only character that I believe actually devalues the roster.

He literally has three unique moves and they're inferior to Pit's in almost every way. I don't think you understand what "last minute addition" means. Almost no thought went into his inclusion. Doc I'm sure was never intended to be a pallet swap. Lucina has marginally more effort put into her, even though she's terrible for it. Dark Pit has three widely inferior moves with no real attempt to balance them. Like his Ftilt. Everything is the same as Pit's except the knockback, which is worse. How was talking away a situational kill move from a character who can't KO for peanuts remotely thought out?

 

[Dre89]

How could Dixie have ever been made instead when Dark Pit only has three different moves and no new move animations? Dixie doesn't even have a tail...

Dark Pit isn't as valuable as a whole character, not even close. Go whine to the Doc/Lucina boards if you want your Dixie so bad. It's laughable that you think it's an even trade.

Then there's the fact that Smash is about what works and not about "fair" representation. There's no such thing as fair in the real world. The items and enemies are straight from Sakurai's head, meaning they would of been in Smash had KIU been created or not. Does it really matter who's name is on an item? 99% of players just see it as content and are grateful.

The Uprising content got in over the NES game's just because it's more unique. What, are you disappointed we didn't get another variation of a foot soldier?

We don't need redundant content for "fairness." Ultra Bitter Spray from Pikmin would be similar to the Freezys and Pitfalls we have already. Rambi would be the same thing as Gogoat. Dixie didn't get in because she'd be mostly the same as Diddy, but would require much more effort to be a clone then the ones we have. She couldn't of been a true costume-character either, again because of the lack of a tail. Dixie failed to get in because of the poor time to unique content ratio.

And Dark Pit was highly requested, and the most popular costume for Pit to boot. People specifically suggested him because he'd be an easy clone.

Dark Pit was not highly requested. He had a surge of popularity when Uprising came out, but he was nowhere near as popular as other characters like say, Dixie.

Diddy has one move that uses his tail. Give Dixie a hair-based jab, a hair based recovery and her gumball popgum and you have Dixie with 3 moves. If possible they could have altered her weight and physics, similar to Doc.

People would've been unhappy that Dixie wasn't that unique, but they would have preferred that over getting a palette swap from an insignificant franchise that's only in the game because of director bias. Dark Pit should've just stayed an alt.

It's not just mindless whinging, there's a reason why Sakurai and Sm4sh get more hate than other developers and games. There's a reason why this game is widely considered to have the worst roster. There wasn't this much hate for the Brawl roster.

People who justify Dark Pit's inclusion as a separate character are the types to justify any decision made by Sakurai. I cannot think of a worse possible character decision.

 

[LancerStaff]

Dark Pit was not highly requested. He had a surge of popularity when Uprising came out, but he was nowhere near as popular as other characters like say, Dixie.

Diddy has one move that uses his tail. Give Dixie a hair-based jab, a hair based recovery and her gumball popgum and you have Dixie with 3 moves. If possible they could have altered her weight and physics, similar to Doc.

People would've been unhappy that Dixie wasn't that unique, but they would have preferred that over getting a palette swap from an insignificant franchise that's only in the game because of director bias. Dark Pit should've just stayed an alt.

It's not just mindless whinging, there's a reason why Sakurai and Sm4sh get more hate than other developers and games. There's a reason why this game is widely considered to have the worst roster. There wasn't this much hate for the Brawl roster.

People who justify Dark Pit's inclusion as a separate character are the types to justify any decision made by Sakurai. I cannot think of a worse possible character decision.

Japanese polls, dude. Dark Pit and Lucina beat Dixie in 'em.

Too much. None of DP's moves have unique animations, and his weight and speed are the same.

More content is always a good thing. Try asking the average fan on Miiverse if they'd rather have a character or nothing. People will overwhelmingly want more stuff.

Lololol. Somebody wasn't around for, like, any other major game ever. People hated Brawl's roster because of Lucas, Toon Link, Wolf, Lucario and Wario. There was just as much hate, and it lasted much longer. You know where "Sakurai bias" came from? Brawl. Starfox in particular. Falco got new moves, Wolf was a thing, unique victory quotes, the conversations on Lylat, and Falco's codec with Snake featuring Slippy. Most people have come to terms with Dark Pit once they realized he had three unique moves, and will be begging for him like Doc or the ICs or Wolf if he's removed. If.

Name calling. Weeeeee. You're so smart and totally right. I take back everything I say.

*Laughs* You're just one of those types who can't stand that your character got beat out by another. Asking to take out another character makes you look spiteful and stupid to all. Every sicko that's come down to Pittwo's forums has been subsequently laughed out. You think it'll be different this time? Fat chance.

 

[Dre89]

Japanese polls, dude. Dark Pit and Lucina beat Dixie in 'em.

Too much. None of DP's moves have unique animations, and his weight and speed are the same.

More content is always a good thing. Try asking the average fan on Miiverse if they'd rather have a character or nothing. People will overwhelmingly want more stuff.

Lololol. Somebody wasn't around for, like, any other major game ever. People hated Brawl's roster because of Lucas, Toon Link, Wolf, Lucario and Wario. There was just as much hate, and it lasted much longer. You know where "Sakurai bias" came from? Brawl. Starfox in particular. Falco got new moves, Wolf was a thing, unique victory quotes, the conversations on Lylat, and Falco's codec with Snake featuring Slippy. Most people have come to terms with Dark Pit once they realized he had three unique moves, and will be begging for him like Doc or the ICs or Wolf if he's removed. If.

Name calling. Weeeeee. You're so smart and totally right. I take back everything I say.

*Laughs* You're just one of those types who can't stand that your character got beat out by another. Asking to take out another character makes you look spiteful and stupid to all. Every sicko that's come down to Pittwo's forums has been subsequently laughed out. You think it'll be different this time? Fat chance.

Like I said, Palette Swap was popular in polls right after Uprising came out. That's why there's a huge backlash to him being put in the game, and why people would've prefered a semi-clone like Dixie instead.

Yes more content is better than no content. The reason why everyone is annoyed is that the extra context (Palette Swap) could've been a more popular character like Dixie for a similar amount of development time. So I don't know why you're mentioning the content vs no content thing.

Also the bias everyone was complaining about in Brawl was that he gave his own series 2 new characters and made them central to the SSE plot.

The Sm4sh 4 hate is still going. You don't know when it'll end so I don't know how you possibly know that the Brawl hate will be longer.

You're trying to make out that people hate on Sm4sh just because they like to hate. The reality is many of these 'haters' follow other games and do not criticise them the way they do Sm4sh, because those games gave the fans what they wanted. Games like Tropical Freeze received universal praise. Anyone who knows the DK community knows they're incredibly fussy and demanding, but they loved TF. If these haters just hated for the sake of hating they'd hate many other games too, but they don't.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Japanese polls, dude. Dark Pit and Lucina beat Dixie in 'em.

Too much. None of DP's moves have unique animations, and his weight and speed are the same.

More content is always a good thing. Try asking the average fan on Miiverse if they'd rather have a character or nothing. People will overwhelmingly want more stuff.

Lololol. Somebody wasn't around for, like, any other major game ever. People hated Brawl's roster because of Lucas, Toon Link, Wolf, Lucario and Wario. There was just as much hate, and it lasted much longer. You know where "Sakurai bias" came from? Brawl. Starfox in particular. Falco got new moves, Wolf was a thing, unique victory quotes, the conversations on Lylat, and Falco's codec with Snake featuring Slippy. Most people have come to terms with Dark Pit once they realized he had three unique moves, and will be begging for him like Doc or the ICs or Wolf if he's removed. If.

Name calling. Weeeeee. You're so smart and totally right. I take back everything I say.

*Laughs* You're just one of those types who can't stand that your character got beat out by another. Asking to take out another character makes you look spiteful and stupid to all. Every sicko that's come down to Pittwo's forums has been subsequently laughed out. You think it'll be different this time? Fat chance.

How is Falco getting new moves Sakurai bias? He was a clone in Melee he got some new moves to make him more unique, same thing happened to Ganondorf. Also Wolf was intended for Melee, but wasn't included due to Sakurai thinking people would mistake him for a grey Fox. Also how are the codecs bias? They were there since Melee and they really don't seem like bias, heck I don't consider the Kid Icarus codecs bias. Slippy appearing in Snake's codec was hilarious, and Chrom also appeared in a Kid Icarus codec too. As for the unique victory taunts, the Star fox characters are some of the few characters who are in the same game together and have full dialogue. Mario isn't a very talkative person in Smash Bros. The only Sakurai bias I've heard of for Brawl is that he made Kirby the main star of Subspace Emissary, but even then someone else wrote the story.

Now why am I not to fond of Dark Pit, simple, his presentation. He wasn't presented to me in a way that made me appreciate him, he was pretty much a carbon copy of Pit with 3 original moves, a final smash that was a clone of a character from a completely different franchise, and the fact that some of his alts made me think I was fighting Pit mainly his white one). It also didn't help that I lost one of my mains, and didn't get any of my most requested newcomers. I don't necessarily hate Dark Pit, in fact I prefer him over Pit, but he just didn't make a good first impression on me. I also don't like his play style very much, but if Wolf came back I'd probably play as Dark Pit and respect him much more than I do now. Dark Pit is no where near the worst thing about Smash 4 that honor goes to Smash tour which is pretty much universally hated except for a very very small minority, and even in those cases they only like it under certain conditions. To sum it up Dark Pit didn't make a good first impression on people, the time being spent on Smash tour should have been spent on more characters, and hopefully DLC can help change people's opinions about Dark Pit, by including cut veterans and newcomers.

 

[MonadoMaster64]

How is Falco getting new moves Sakurai bias? He was a clone in Melee he got some new moves to make him more unique, same thing happened to Ganondorf. Also Wolf was intended for Melee, but wasn't included due to Sakurai thinking people would mistake him for a grey Fox. Also how are the codecs bias? They were there since Melee and they really don't seem like bias, heck I don't consider the Kid Icarus codecs bias. Slippy appearing in Snake's codec was hilarious, and Chrom also appeared in a Kid Icarus codec too. As for the unique victory taunts, the Star fox characters are some of the few characters who are in the same game together and have full dialogue. Mario isn't a very talkative person in Smash Bros. The only Sakurai bias I've heard of for Brawl is that he made Kirby the main star of Subspace Emissary, but even then someone else wrote the story.

Now why am I not to fond of Dark Pit, simple, his presentation. He wasn't presented to me in a way that made me appreciate him, he was pretty much a carbon copy of Pit with 3 original moves, a final smash that was a clone of a character from a completely different franchise, and the fact that some of his alts made me think I was fighting Pit mainly his white one). It also didn't help that I lost one of my mains, and didn't get any of my most requested newcomers. I don't necessarily hate Dark Pit, in fact I prefer him over Pit, but he just didn't make a good first impression on me. I also don't like his play style very much, but if Wolf came back I'd probably play as Dark Pit and respect him much more than I do now. Dark Pit is no where near the worst thing about Smash 4 that honor goes to Smash tour which is pretty much universally hated except for a very very small minority, and even in those cases they only like it under certain conditions. To sum it up Dark Pit didn't make a good first impression on people, the time being spent on Smash tour should have been spent on more characters, and hopefully DLC can help change people's opinions about Dark Pit, by including cut veterans and newcomers.

I do agree with you that Dark Pit didn't give me a very good impression at first. I saw his proportional artwork and thought "it's not all bad, he has a different weapon" but no. I saw game play and he looked exactly the same as Pit. He's still not the worst thing from Sm4sh, he was definitely a disappointment.

 

[LancerStaff]

Like I said, Palette Swap was popular in polls right after Uprising came out. That's why there's a huge backlash to him being put in the game, and why people would've prefered a semi-clone like Dixie instead.

Yes more content is better than no content. The reason why everyone is annoyed is that the extra context (Palette Swap) could've been a more popular character like Dixie for a similar amount of development time. So I don't know why you're mentioning the content vs no content thing.

Also the bias everyone was complaining about in Brawl was that he gave his own series 2 new characters and made them central to the SSE plot.

The Sm4sh 4 hate is still going. You don't know when it'll end so I don't know how you possibly know that the Brawl hate will be longer.

You're trying to make out that people hate on Sm4sh just because they like to hate. The reality is many of these 'haters' follow other games and do not criticise them the way they do Sm4sh, because those games gave the fans what they wanted. Games like Tropical Freeze received universal praise. Anyone who knows the DK community knows they're incredibly fussy and demanding, but they loved TF. If these haters just hated for the sake of hating they'd hate many other games too, but they don't.

He was popular in polls right up until Smash's release, and presumably still is thanks to Smash. Haven't seen very many since release.

I don't think you actually understand Dark Pit's differences. His arrows do more damage but can't be curved as much. How much you can turn an arrow per-frame is a static value. Takes the same amount of effort to change the damage as the curve. Electroshock deals more damage, has a different KB angle and value, and does Electrical damage. More number changes. Ftilt just has less KB, and his Final Smash is exactly the same as Zelda's with a different animation and the hitbox slightly readjusted. No completely new moves to balance, no new attack animations, no significantly new properties. A modder could do all of that, besides the maybe the FS animation, in a day. Dixie could not of been made in a day. And don't you think he knew people would accuse him of bias? He would of did something more complex and not related to KI, like Alph, if he simply had the time. He couldn't of just picked one type of Pikmin either, since they all have a particular weak move. Reds have poor grab range and weak throws, for example.

The hate is basically over with. Even GFAQS, cesspool of hatred and rage, has calmed down. I'm convinced you weren't even around for Brawl's release. Brawl conditioned people for Smash 4 quite well.

They hate just because they didn't get exactly what they wanted and are trying to bargain for something that was impossible. Try asking DK and Diddy fans on here if they think Dixie could of been made with the time and resources that DP used. You'll overwhelmingly get a "no."

How is Falco getting new moves Sakurai bias? He was a clone in Melee he got some new moves to make him more unique, same thing happened to Ganondorf. Also Wolf was intended for Melee, but wasn't included due to Sakurai thinking people would mistake him for a grey Fox. Also how are the codecs bias? They were there since Melee and they really don't seem like bias, heck I don't consider the Kid Icarus codecs bias. Slippy appearing in Snake's codec was hilarious, and Chrom also appeared in a Kid Icarus codec too. As for the unique victory taunts, the Star fox characters are some of the few characters who are in the same game together and have full dialogue. Mario isn't a very talkative person in Smash Bros. The only Sakurai bias I've heard of for Brawl is that he made Kirby the main star of Subspace Emissary, but even then someone else wrote the story.

Now why am I not to fond of Dark Pit, simple, his presentation. He wasn't presented to me in a way that made me appreciate him, he was pretty much a carbon copy of Pit with 3 original moves, a final smash that was a clone of a character from a completely different franchise, and the fact that some of his alts made me think I was fighting Pit mainly his white one). It also didn't help that I lost one of my mains, and didn't get any of my most requested newcomers. I don't necessarily hate Dark Pit, in fact I prefer him over Pit, but he just didn't make a good first impression on me. I also don't like his play style very much, but if Wolf came back I'd probably play as Dark Pit and respect him much more than I do now. Dark Pit is no where near the worst thing about Smash 4 that honor goes to Smash tour which is pretty much universally hated except for a very very small minority, and even in those cases they only like it under certain conditions. To sum it up Dark Pit didn't make a good first impression on people, the time being spent on Smash tour should have been spent on more characters, and hopefully DLC can help change people's opinions about Dark Pit, by including cut veterans and newcomers.

If you have a problem with people accusing Falco's new moves of being Sakurai bais, take it up with 2008 era internet. I honestly don't care that we got Wolf and stuff over Dixie or Palutena or whatever.

And cutting Smash Tour doesn't mean you instantly get more characters... The people who design game modes would just design another game mode. It's like when people blame Nintendo for making MP10 instead of a Metroid: Do you REALLY want a Metroid game made by the Mario Party devs? To wit, do you really want a character made by people who don't make characters?

I do agree with you that Dark Pit didn't give me a very good impression at first. I saw his proportional artwork and thought "it's not all bad, he has a different weapon" but no. I saw game play and he looked exactly the same as Pit. He's still not the worst thing from Sm4sh, he was definitely a disappointment.

That has to do with people seeing the artwork long before his actual announcement/unlocking him. Had people saw the character first they would of knew exactly what to expect. And more people would be upset had he been unique anyway, because that'd mean a lot of resources went into making KI characters. Right now it's two characters and the cheapest clone ever to grace the Smash franchise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One thing to note is that they didn't really have time to make anything better than the 3 clones anyway. Dark Pit being gone wouldn't have net us much at all. Alph requires a lot more work, since using different Pikmin requires new models and stats for them, as well as himself in general. Dixie is barely like Diddy outside of a few moves and wouldn't be even close to easy to make. Dark Samus already showed she was highly different with the Assist Trophy alone, and wouldn't be anywhere near as simple as Dark Pit was.

Lastly, all of them were specifically chosen from alternate costumes. That leaves only Alph and the Koopalings. Neither was feasible to any large degree. Dark Pit was realistically the easiest choice for the 3rd character. And yeah, I did feel a bit let down by him not being a bit more unique. He's still awesome aesthetically though. I love his personality. His gameplay just could use a tiny bit more tuning, that's all.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, I just don't like Dark Pit that much...

Outside of Smash, he's one of the more bland characters in Uprising, imo.

Inside Smash, I just don't like either Pit's playstyle.

But his inclusion as a clone is totally justifiable. I just wished was a clone too as I personally like him more.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

He was popular in polls right up until Smash's release, and presumably still is thanks to Smash. Haven't seen very many since release.

I don't think you actually understand Dark Pit's differences. His arrows do more damage but can't be curved as much. How much you can turn an arrow per-frame is a static value. Takes the same amount of effort to change the damage as the curve. Electroshock deals more damage, has a different KB angle and value, and does Electrical damage. More number changes. Ftilt just has less KB, and his Final Smash is exactly the same as Zelda's with a different animation and the hitbox slightly readjusted. No completely new moves to balance, no new attack animations, no significantly new properties. A modder could do all of that, besides the maybe the FS animation, in a day. Dixie could not of been made in a day. And don't you think he knew people would accuse him of bias? He would of did something more complex and not related to KI, like Alph, if he simply had the time. He couldn't of just picked one type of Pikmin either, since they all have a particular weak move. Reds have poor grab range and weak throws, for example.

The hate is basically over with. Even GFAQS, cesspool of hatred and rage, has calmed down. I'm convinced you weren't even around for Brawl's release. Brawl conditioned people for Smash 4 quite well.

They hate just because they didn't get exactly what they wanted and are trying to bargain for something that was impossible. Try asking DK and Diddy fans on here if they think Dixie could of been made with the time and resources that DP used. You'll overwhelmingly get a "no."



If you have a problem with people accusing Falco's new moves of being Sakurai bais, take it up with 2008 era internet. I honestly don't care that we got Wolf and stuff over Dixie or Palutena or whatever.

And cutting Smash Tour doesn't mean you instantly get more characters... The people who design game modes would just design another game mode. It's like when people blame Nintendo for making MP10 instead of a Metroid: Do you REALLY want a Metroid game made by the Mario Party devs? To wit, do you really want a character made by people who don't make characters?



That has to do with people seeing the artwork long before his actual announcement/unlocking him. Had people saw the character first they would of knew exactly what to expect. And more people would be upset had he been unique anyway, because that'd mean a lot of resources went into making KI characters. Right now it's two characters and the cheapest clone ever to grace the Smash franchise.

Or they could have simply ported Smash run to Wii U, after all it is kind of there due to Master fortress. Also why do the Mario Party devs have to make a Metroid? Can't another team do it?

 

[Dinoman96]

It's not just that he's a clone that's almost identical to the original. It's that he's literally just a palette swap who was in one mildly successful game before Smash 4 (2 games if you count the black Pit palette in brawl). There's also the clear KI bias. It's not just that he's biasing a specific franchise. It's that a franchise so tiny and insignificant in Nintendo's history is getting so much content in what is supposed to be a celebration of Nintendo's best IPs. All because he was involved in that franchise. Even within KI he heavily biased his own game, there's virtually no content from the original game.

That's just because it was easy to port over content from Kid Icarus Uprising. KIU, being designed by Sakurai, is heavily molded by Smash (for example, its items are just SSB items stuck in another game) and Sakurai doesn't have to ask anyone for assets from it.

I wonder if these people who keep saying "smash 4 has too much ki stuff!" realize that if anything, that only applies to the 3DS version with the ported over trophy models and Smash Run enemies. On Smash Wii U, there's barely anything from it.

 

[Dre89]

That's just because it was easy to port over content from Kid Icarus Uprising. KIU, being designed by Sakurai, is heavily molded by Smash (for example, its items are just SSB items stuck in another game) and Sakurai doesn't have to ask anyone for assets from it.

I wonder if these people who keep saying "smash 4 has too much ki stuff!" realize that if anything, that only applies to the 3DS version with the ported over trophy models and Smash Run enemies. On Smash Wii U, there's barely anything from it.

Regardless, 3 characters from a tiny franchise is way too much when franchises like DK, which is literally like 40+ times bigger than it saleswise got less. Especially when one of those characters should have just been an alt. There was also the codecs.

People don't like clones but they would have been happier if the clone was a more deserving character like Dixie. The DK fans originally wouldn't accept Dixie being a clone, but that was when they all assumed DK was getting 1-2 newcomers, which would have been logical. Had they known back then their series would be underrepped, and the extent of Sakuai's bias, they would have happily taken clone Dixie instead of a Palette Swap from a tiny franchise.

People here can try justify Palette Swap's inclusion if they want, but at the end of the day he would never have been considered if not for director bias (even Palutena's inclusion might have been iffy). He'll also most likely be the first one cut for next game if there's time constraints and Sakurai isn't the developer.

 

[Tino]

People just like to make dumb*** excuses for bashing certain characters in Smash just because they don't like them and Dark Pit is no exception. I don't mind him being in the game even though I don't use him.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Wow, the drama surrounding is astonishing. It's been about six months and people are still complaining about him?

 

[Deleted member]

Like everyone mentioned probably because he's a clone and 'Sakurai bias'. I use both Pit and Dark Pit as well as both Lucina and Marth and I find it silly how people like to bash Dark Pit because of his clone status and simply because they don't like him. The amount of hate he gets is truly and utterly ridiculous. But then again I don't mind clones too much so...