• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Are Humans Meant To Be Herbivores?

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Deleted member

Guest
Do you really think Bruce Lee's bigger muscles would help him hunting? What would he do? Chase after a mammoth and beat it up until it's dead with his amazing powers because his muscles make so much more of a difference? Yeah ...

No.

He couldn't kill a mammoth, no matter how much muscle power he has. He couldn't kill anything with his bare hands and then proceed to eat it because the human doesn't have the body or the tools of a hunter. The human body is not strong, it is not fast and it is not equipped with weapons that would allow us to chase down, kill and eat an animal. Doesn't that say everything already? Bruce Lee would be an equally bad hunter as every other human being would.

What a human body does have though, is extraordinary stamina that exceeds nearly every other terrestial animal's stamina. This allows him to travel a lot more steadily, which is absolutely counterproductive to hunting but very useful to collect plants. What a human also has are very well refined arms with well refined hands. Their total lack of power or claws make it unsuited for hunting but perfect to pluck fruits, roots, grasses and other plants.
And before you think you can lecture me about evolution you should take a quick look at the anatomy of the human body: what we have in common with pure herbivores are the teeth, the saliva, the cheek pouch, the stomach, the gastric acid, the intestine, the urine, the sweat and the fact that our body does not produce vitamine C on its own in addition to the fact that the shape and the constitution of our body is perfectly suited for optaining plants - fruit in particular. What our digestion has in common with that of carnivores or other omnivores is nothing. I don't know how much clearer it could be layed out that we have to body of herbivores.

Oh, and muscle power in no way is a sign that a species belongs to carnivores or omnivores. Gorillas are among the most muscular animals on the earth and they eat almost exclusively bananas and other fruit. Same goes for bisons or other cattle who eat only grass and herbs.



First of all, not everybody who doesn't eat meat is a vegan. Especially the Vitamin B12 part is a common error. Cow Milk, Soy Sauce, Ginger and most Vegetables still contain Vitamin B12. Nori, Cheese and Yolk even have a higher content of Vitamin B12 than pork does.

[source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Sources]

Second, despite such claims as "vegans and vegetarians have issues obtaining enough protein, calcium and vitamin B12" there are simply no known instances of this actually happening to a vegetarian due to the lack of his meat input and no case is known of any other health problem based on that. I can't speak for vegans because I'm not one but that's kind of besides the point. The question is about meat, not other products related to animals and it's pretty clear that meat is neither beneficial nor necessary for the human body. It's a stimulant but for our nutrition it's plain superfluous.

:059:
It's like, you read what I posted, but picked and pulled at was most beneficial for your argument.

First of all, you claimed that a muscular build was not beneficial for evolution and I proved you wrong on that one. You're simply sticking to Carnivore and Omnivores, and you compared Gorillas (a different species) with the physique and diet of a human being, of course they need to eat different food to survive they're a different animal, same way that if you give a dog chocolate it dies.. Your body needs protein, plain and simple, there's no avoiding that fact. It's a macro-nutrient and a necessity in a balanced diet, hell a necessity for survival, I don't know why you brought up B-12 since I never mentioned it, and comparing Vitamins to Macro-Nutrients is absurd. You can go a couple weeks without eating vitamins and still be generally OK. If you go a couple weeks without ANY protein you'll suffer the symptoms rather quickly. And yes, it IS about animals and animal-based products, herbivores don't eat eggs. I'll give you milk and soy products, but Chicken, Fish, Eggs and Red meats are out of the question. You claim that we can live without those, yet I see no sources backing you up. I made the opposite statement, and gave plenty of sources.

Second of all:

Do you really think Bruce Lee's bigger muscles would help him hunting? What would he do? Chase after a mammoth and beat it up until it's dead with his amazing powers because his muscles make so much more of a difference? Yeah ...

No.

He couldn't kill a mammoth, no matter how much muscle power he has. He couldn't kill anything with his bare hands and then proceed to eat it
I really hope you aren't being serious with this statement, this is either filled with blind jealousy, or just plain dumb.

Someone with Bruce Lee's build would be able to run faster, throw spears farther and with more power, have better reflexes and mental agility (bet you didn't know your nutrition affects your psyche as well), have better lung capacity, have more resistance to harsh conditions, more endurance, be able to swim more efficiently, climb mountains with more ease, have better resistance to pain, more strength to make weapons and fire arrows, better tuned senses, etc... Hunting isn't about killing an animal with your bare hands, and the fact that you claim that, even in an ironic way, makes you sound very uneducated. It is much more than that. If you really believe that you can have someone who has trained their body and nourished it properly and someone who hasn't trained and has nourished their body poorly, in a survival situation, and the both stand an equal chance of survival, then you're delusional. That's like claiming you can beat Usain Bolt at swimming or weightlifting. Sure sprinting is his specialty, but he's a well-rounded athlete, and he's in much better shape than you.
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
This whole thing, I just.

You just said there is more than one worldview and you want people to respect that, right?

Then how come you can't respect the worldview of an atheist, it seems?

I hate when Christians try to play the role of the "bullied", or the minority.
I'm not saying I don't respect atheist's worldview. You misunderstood my sentence. I'm saying, it seems that the only worldview respected here is the secular/atheist/whatever you wanna call it view. And based on that observation, it appears my worldview has become unwanted, to the point where I'm unwanted in an "intelligent" conversation.

Bottom line is, I'll probably never be treated the same as everyone else in here because I'm a Christian, and "dumb" for believing in God and that what the Bible says is true. Nobody has said anything directly, but it has certainly been implied. You know how atheists don't like religious people acting as if atheists have bad morals? Well, we don't like being treated like we're dumb, either.

The topic question was "are humans meant to be herbivores"? Everyone has a different opinion on the matter based on what they believe. I was simply stating my opinion, and why I believe that to be the case. Please explain how I disrespected your worldview. By posting a Bible verse about food? Oh wow, how awful.

ManlySpirit has handled both views maturely, of course he said my source was iffy, which is perfectly understandable, but he also respected it instead of saying "lol don't post Bible verses if you wanna look good". Which is basically what Jumpman said.
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
I don't get it when Christians try too hard to act like they're being bullied or something. I mean like, the Dark Ages. Enough said, really.
 

Holder of the Heel

Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
8,850
Location
Alabama
NNID
Roarfang
3DS FC
1332-7720-7283
Switch FC
6734-2078-8990
What? Gwjumpman said nothing against you. He said he liked you and as an offering he told you if you use biblical passages inappropriately you are going to get flack. None of which came from him. At no point did he "lol" or talk poorly of you. So no, that is not basically what he said. I feel bad that he did try to give you advice because you interpreted it as the very effect he wanted you to avoid.
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
You seem to deem a lot of things that people say to you here in the Debate Hall as condescending, tbh.

Such as, assuming that Gwjumpman said something against you, which he so obviously didn't. He was giving you advice.

And that whole grandstanding bit: "**** YOU ALL IM LEAVING NO ONE'S LISTENING TO ME OMFGG"
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
I know he probably didn't mean anything of it, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard that sentence before from various forums/people IRL, who DID mean it in the way I interpreted it. I also did thank him for the critcism. Although, his sentence has proved to be true thanks to Yodery's comments.... >.>
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
I know he probably didn't mean anything of it, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard that sentence before from various forums/people IRL
You mean people telling you not to bring God/Bible-talk into discussions that have absolutely nothing to do with 'God', or the Bible? :L
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
I'm not saying I don't respect atheist's worldview. You misunderstood my sentence. I'm saying, it seems that the only worldview respected here is the secular/atheist/whatever you wanna call it view. And based on that observation, it appears my worldview has become unwanted, to the point where I'm unwanted in an "intelligent" conversation.

Bottom line is, I'll probably never be treated the same as everyone else in here because I'm a Christian, and "dumb" for believing in God and that what the Bible says is true. Nobody has said anything directly, but it has certainly been implied. You know how atheists don't like religious people acting as if atheists have bad morals? Well, we don't like being treated like we're dumb, either.
You can divert any and all criticism regarding religion if you just stopped bringing it into everything. This is a discussion aims to critique the form of the human and judge whether we should be herbivores or not. Being biology-based, evolution is what's going to be end up being cited.

Giving the bible's opinion on what humans are has absolutely zero influence in this sort of discussion. If you want to bring religion into what humans should be like, make a new discussion for it.
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
Being biology-based, evolution is what's going to be end up being cited.

Giving the bible's opinion on what humans are has absolutely zero influence in this sort of discussion. .
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Evolution is the only acceptable worldview here.
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
Evolution isn't a worldview. It's an established scientific fact. We're not here to debate evolution. If you disagree with the theory of evolution, go make a thread and say why. Also, you should probably apply for a nobel prize if you can do it.
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
Dude, evolution isn't a worldview. It's a scientific fact. Are you serious? O_o
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
I don't need a nobel prize to disprove Evolution when the things Darwin HIMSELF said would disprove his theory have become known.


I think I'll take up that offer, expect a thread soon >.>

and no, eveolution is not a "fact" it is a THEORY.


...well micro evolution is a fact but macro evolution isn-


Nevermind, I'll bring all this up in my thread =/

Oh, FUN FACT: darwin was not the first scientist to observe natural selection, in fact it was a creationist, but I'll get into that in my thread. :p
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
I don't need a nobel prize to disprove Evolution when the things Darwin HIMSELF said would disprove his theory have become known.


I think I'll take up that offer, expect a thread soon >.>
See, the cool thing about science is that you don't have to pretend you know all the answers. Nomesayin'?

lel, I look forward to your thread. I smell a ****storm.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Wow, this thread certainly got interesting...




It's one thing to have spiritual beliefs as, if Descartes and Quantum Mechanics have taught us anything,t here is much more beyond what we can see and measure, but a whole different thing not to believe in evolution. Though I'm not surprised as my mother believes the same thing. -_-

Although there is that one "Missing Link" theory that claims it's possible for humans to be extra-terrestrial, which would make for a neat sci-fi novel or something.

Anyway, I look forward to that Disproving Evolution thread White Mage, though for your sake I hope other people take your side as it will be unfair with all of us ganging up on you. Word of advice, make it a general Spirituality Thread or something, then I might be able to take a more "religious" side.
 

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,974
I'm expecting some quote mining.

Darwin said:
To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree. Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself first originated; but I may remark that several facts make me suspect that any sensitive nerve may be rendered sensitive to light, and likewise to those coarser vibrations of the air which produce sound.
Darwin said:
To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree. Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real.
Darwin said:
To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
I don't need a nobel prize to disprove Evolution when the things Darwin HIMSELF said would disprove his theory have become known.


I think I'll take up that offer, expect a thread soon >.>

and no, eveolution is not a "fact" it is a THEORY.


...well micro evolution is a fact but macro evolution isn-


Nevermind, I'll bring all this up in my thread =/

Oh, FUN FACT: darwin was not the first scientist to observe natural selection, in fact it was a creationist, but I'll get into that in my thread. :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

I eagerly await your thread.
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
I'm expecting some quote mining.
I'm not planning to. My thread will probably be up in a week or 2, I'm going to be going through all my of old research papers, textbooks (both evolution and creationist), online articles etc. Going to actually put some time into it. Too bad School started D:

Hopefully find some Youtube videos of some interesting videos I found here and there.
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
lemme guess, conservapedia? loooool

YouTube?
A decent source?
Quick, to the Batmobile!
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
Yodery shut up already.


I'm tired of you making fun of everything I do.


I don't even know wth "conservapedia" is e.e

You haven't even contributed anything useful to this topic, other than randomly coming in here and picking me out.
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
By the way, I do have Darwin's book. So if you plan on quote mining, provide where in the book you found the quote.
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
Nah, it's all good, but just saying man, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. ^_^

I'm "picking you out" because, well, how can I not? How bronze age do you have to be to not "believe" in evolution?
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
I dunno man, I'm pretty sure we actually had a debate about evolution only like a year or two ago here at the latest.
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
By the way, I do have Darwin's book. So if you plan on quote mining, provide where in the book you found the quote.
...I just realized I sold that book with a couple others leftover from my Evolution class.


*major facepalm* I knew I'd need it one day e.e

Hopefully I can find it on the internet somewhere...
 
Y

Yodery

Guest
...I just realized I sold that book with a couple others leftover from my Evolution class.


*major facepalm* I knew I'd need it one day e.e

Hopefully I can find it on the internet somewhere...
the ****, I thought you didn't believe evolution to be true? What, did you just put your fingers in your ears, and go "LALALALALALA!!!" the whole time in class?
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
I'm sure you can find an e-book of it online. I'm not positive, but that book seems like the kind you could find for free legally online as a resource.

Hell, Google books probably has it available.
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
Yodery, I'll explain everything later -.-

And I found a free ebook :D

ANYWAY, back to humans eating plants @_@ went way off topic here
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Yodery, I'll explain everything later -.-

And I found a free ebook :D

ANYWAY, back to humans eating plants @_@ went way off topic here
Yeah, well I already gave my two cents on that and posted my sources. The other person disagreed but posted no sources... Go figure.
 

Jon Farron

✧ The Healer ✧
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
1,539
Location
Texas
Was just informed what quote mining meant, I thought it meant something else, lol.

I won't be quoting out of context e.e

Edit: UUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

I just realized I got a new computer and all my bookmarks are gone. This isn't going well already 3:
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
You should get Google Chrome so that your bookmarks are synched with your Google account and follow you anywhere you go.
 

Holder of the Heel

Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
8,850
Location
Alabama
NNID
Roarfang
3DS FC
1332-7720-7283
Switch FC
6734-2078-8990
Perhaps we should try to be civil and stay on topic while we are at it.
 

Mr. game and watch

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
4,273
Location
Tyler, Texas
Edit: removed in effort to stay on topic

Also no herbivores have canines. We already concluded that
A) Chimpanzees are by definition omnivores
B) chimps have big canines

And nothing else. Having canines is a characteristic of a carnivore, having molers is a characteristic of an herbivore, and having both is a characteristic of an omnivore.

:phone:

Edit: eff the first part I'll make a new thread about sciences relation to religion only respond to the part about canines please
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
5,833
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Baghul
Having canines is a characteristic of a carnivore, having molers is a characteristic of an herbivore, and having both is a characteristic of an omnivore.
I don't know much about biology, but doesn't this seal the deal with this debate? Evolution is not a guided process, therefore you cannot judge "intent" or "purpose" with anything involving it, but rather you can judge how good something is at something based on the evolutionary processes that lead to its current form. If what the above is true, then clearly we are at least somewhat able to be omnivores. Also, we clearly ARE omnivores seeing as we eat meat and veggies on a regular basis.

There's no point saying "Our ancestors had to live on berries" or things like that. We've evolved. Our habits changed. Even if our ancestors were herbivores (which I don't know by the way, it's a hypothetical for the purpose of the argument), that does not change what we are. Humans today are meat and vegetable eating hominids.

"Are humans meant to be Herbivores?" is a malformed question as it assumes there is some intent in the evolutionary process. The fact of the matter is humans aren't herbivores.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
NNID
Dre4789
"Mike Tyson is a Vegan" [citation needed]

Anyway, a lot of championship bodybuilders just stick the needle to get big, a lot don't even lift weights anymore. I'll see if I can find sauce on a testimony from a big shot Bodybuilder admitting that all the Pros are on the Juice just waiting to die.

Most hard-core steroids bypass traditional training methods. Likewise a lot of Natural Vegan Athletes make up for the lack of Meat Protein with Whey Protein and other Dietary supplements, if you have to supplement protein to make up for the lack of Meat in your diet it just proves that you are naturally meant to eat meat.
I explained this. You don't need to eat supplements to get protein naturally. It's just that the ways to obtain protein etc. naturally are no longer socially acceptable in our society.

Gw- If people think having canines and molers is a sign of an omnivore, then they need to define what an omnivore is. The reason being that chimps fit this description, yet 95%+ of their diet is vegan. The rest is insects, an on occassion meat. Meat consumption in chimps however, developed as a social tool, as only males hunt meat, and they share with other males for protection, and with females for mating rights. Besides, chimps are intelligent enough to defy what's naturally good for them, just like humans can. They're basically the creatures most similar to humans.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I explained this. You don't need to eat supplements to get protein naturally. It's just that the ways to obtain protein etc. naturally are no longer socially acceptable in our society.
I'm not too sure what you mean by this, but yeah to get protein naturally you need to eat either chicken, fish, eggs, or meat, something herbivores don't eat. Sure, you could count soy products, wheat and milk, but all those are lacking in several vital amino acids.

As for socially acceptable, Whey Protein IS socially acceptable (barring the ******* who think it's like steroids), but it's refined and enhanced with extra amino acids, meaning it's not natural.

The only thing not socially acceptable are steroids, which are hormones, not protein.
 

Bobwithlobsters

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
421
Location
Oakdale MN
I would like to disagree with gehb when he said that we share the characteristic of our stomach with that of herbivores. From how I understand it humans have once of the least effective digestive tracks of animals. Herbivores trend to have much more complex digestive tracks than humans I believe even most monkeys have better digestive tracks than humans. Humans have a very difficult time surviving off of raw foods in general and outside of fruits and maybe some roots I dont think there is much for plant life we could survive on.

before the agricultureal revolution how would we find the plant life needed to support life? Survive on fruit alone? Fruit is not near plentiful enough to survive on exclusively. And most grains need to be processed in some manner before they are useable as food and dont trend to appear in mass quantities.

:phone:
 

global-wolf

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
2,215
Location
Northern Virginia
Edit: removed in effort to stay on topic

Also no herbivores have canines. We already concluded that
A) Chimpanzees are by definition omnivores
B) chimps have big canines

And nothing else. Having canines is a characteristic of a carnivore, having molers is a characteristic of an herbivore, and having both is a characteristic of an omnivore.



Edit: eff the first part I'll make a new thread about sciences relation to religion only respond to the part about canines please
My god this thread makes my head hurt.

HERE IS A PICTURE OF A HERBIVORE WITH CANINES


AND ANOTHER


AND ANOTHER



Evolution, ahh I was hoping someone would pull that card, you've basically dug your own grave with that one.

Ok, so you claim that there are no evolutionary benefits to muscles, now scratching the obvious necessity of needing muscles for motion, I'm going to rephrase what you claimed into, "there are no evolutionary benefits to being muscular", as I assume that is what you meant.

Now this is one of the many arguments I hear against fitness from jealous lazy people on a near daily basis, along side, "muscles are gross," "you can't enjoy life if you wanna stay fit," and many others.




Now, above I have two pictures of two fit men who have muscular, functional, healthy and aesthetic bodies. Using these, I will explain several reason why this claim is severely wrong and very misinformed. Take note that muscular does not necessarily mean BIG, it simply means you have a healthy physique in which our muscles are visible. Also take note that both of those men are trained martial artists and in peak physical condition.

First and foremost, lets look at evolutionary theory and its purpose. Darwin claims that through Natural Selection, only those who are most fit to survive do so, and are able to pass on their genetic information through reproduction. Now reproduction plays a crucial role in all of this, as it is through reproduction that genes are passed on and on to future generations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution).

So now, lets go for the first part: "Those who are most fit to survive do so." Now then, going back to primitive times (6000BC- ~4000BC), you'll note that hunting was a large part of human civilization (at least until animal nursery and herding became options). Now, you tell me, from an evolutionary standpoint who is best fit for Hunting, someone like Brendan Flowers or Bruce Lee weighing in at approx. 180lbs of lean muscles? Or someone built like say.... Johnny Depp with a weak body of about 130lbs? Also, take note that hunting and herding were crucial aspects of human society in its early times. Sure, they farmed and harvested, but they also hunted, and if they didn't they fished. Those civilizations that relied solely on harvest to feed their populations were notorious for malnourishment. If protein and meat weren't key to human survival, then why did our ancestors travel miles and miles of land in pursuit of their prey?

"But, muscles don't play a part in passing your genes. Genetics and evolution go hand in hand, you don't inherit muscles either." Ahh, but you DO inherit the ability to build muscles more easily, bodybuilding, athletics and genetics go hand in hand as well. Not to mention muscles DO play a part in passing your genes. Fit and muscular men make women's panties get moist. Those who disagree are either in denial, or not good genetic candidates themselves. Going back to evolution, the survival of our genetic information is a crucial part of our existence (from an evolutionary standpoint), for this reason, we're psychologically programmed to seek out mates who have the highest chance of producing quality offspring; creating children who will have the best opportunity of survival and thus passing on THEIR genes as well. "But muscular men don't necessarily have the best genes." Once again my friend, you're wrong. Now, muscles alone don't mean you're the best candidate, but having a muscular build shows that you are healthy and have high levels of testosterone in your blood, the MALE hormone. Testosterone (in males) improves all aspects of your life that extend well beyond simply "looking ripped." Having high levels of testosterone make you more aggressive and assertive, meaning you're more likely to achieve your personal goals, it makes you physically stronger, it increases your sex drive, thus enhancing your chances of reproduction (yep, that's right Google: the benefits of high testosterone), and much more. All of these qualities are very attractive to the opposite sex, which in short means, you reproduce and fulfill your evolutionary role. In other words, muscular build=healthier body and higher levels of testosterone=higher sex drive and attraction from opposite sex=reproduction and carrying on your evolutionary role (aka what nature wants you to do).
Since you're talking about the role of having giant muscles in natural selection, let's look at some South American men who have had secluded lives with no contact with Western body ideals, no modern medicine, and no supermarkets with plentiful meat (meat that has been mass-farmed, without the consumer having to do anything, which you did not seem to consider at all.)



I don't see any big muscles on these people, and they survived just fine in an environment that requires them to be physically fit, so I don't think your argument works.

I also disagree personally with your assessment that being muscular=having higher chances of reproduction. Being fit sure helps out at first but I think in the long run the large majority of women would like someone who can be a good provider in this world, which usually means being intelligent and good socially, not being a super hunk.



but you are in fact wrong here. There have been many studies showing the detrimental effects of being a vegan, and it has been reported on several places.

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/11183/1/Disadvantages-of-Being-a-Vegetarian.html
http://www.livestrong.com/article/482780-disadvantages-of-being-vegan/
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_pros_and_cons_of_being_a_vegan

Protein is a building block of nutrition, it is a Macronutrient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macronutrients), (alongside Lipids and Carbohydrates), you MUST eat a daily quantity of Amino Acids in order to sustain your body. Furthermore, you cannot build nor sustain a muscular Physique like the ones picture above without a minimum daily consumption of protein of 1g per lb of bodyweight. Those men worked very hard to get in that shape, they didn't simply stop eating junk food and start doing martial arts. Both of those men ate vast amounts of diverse healthy foods (including red meat, chicken and fish) and lifted heavy weights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee#Fitness_and_nutrition). Not eating enough protein causes your body to go into a catatonic state and literally EAT the protein from your muscles to feed itself (http://www.dailygarnish.com/2010/09...rotein-a-guest-post-from-no-meat-athlete.html ; http://www.livestrong.com/protein-deficiency). This is a survival mechanism built into our bodies to allow us to survive when in low times of food. Not eating a varied and diverse amount of protein causes this to happen as your body is malnourished and seeks to feed itself (if you supply other nutrients, but eat a less then sufficient amount of protein then it happens more slowly over time, but the fact remains that you're killing yourself).

Vegans and Vegetarians have a difficult time meeting their protein requirements when trying to stay fit, so much so, many give up on their silly diets after some time. If you must supplement your nutrients from another source, then it is clear that you need them and were made to consume them in the first place. You can refuse to accept this, but the fact remains that humans rely on meat and other high protein sources to stay alive, and cannot be herbivores as plants do not supply us with the necessary amount of nutrients to ensure our survival.

I really don't think there is much more to be said, I addressed both sides of your argument, and proved them both to be false with well cited sources.
The reason it is so easy for us to get protein from meat now is because, as I mentioned earlier, it's pretty much delivered right to our door. Everything we eat is delivered to our door. Our ancestors didn't have that luxury, they had to find or grow their own food, and catching an animal would have been energy-taxing.

Still, meat is good nutritionally so of course our ancestors wanted to eat it right? But notice how our bodies fare compared those of wild carnivores. (They don't match up.) That's because our ancestors had tools to kill these animals, tools that greatly reduced the amount of physical exertion needed. And our ancestors learned how to track animals and wear them down. And eventually they learned how to farm them. Which is natural selection of the mind, not of a muscular body. And that still applies today, having a super powerful and disease-resistant body is less important for survival today than it was at any earlier point in time, because we have medicine to take care of health problems and we don't have to worry about having a fit body to do anything.

Oh oops, looks like I got off-track, anyway well-educated vegans and vegetarians do a perfectly fine job of meeting their protein requirements, and so do herbivores, like I said earlier:


@global-wolf
Well, you're talking about the protein requirements for a different species. It's like asking "how come bear Hibernate, how do they endure Winters without food?" A human being, in order to have a strong and healthy body needs to meet certain daily vitamin and protein requirements. If we talk about survival, then it's a different story, but survival means you're cutting your lifespan short.
No, it is not like how a bear hibernates, how a bear hibernates relates to its metabolism and energy storage. And herbivores also have certain daily vitamin and protein requirements, and they acquire them entirely by eating plants. What a completely meaningless paragraph.





____
TL;DR don't make preposterous assumptions about science and present them in debate


Unsubscribing.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom