Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

[Vicarin]

Ugh, that @ didn't work out. #HBC | Ryker Look above lol.

 

[Xivii]

(unlike Xivii apparently).

huh?

 

[fontisian]

Ugh, that @ didn't work out. #HBC | Ryker Look above lol.

This being on a different page made me laugh.

My legacy is Wam, Laser and Bessie must die. If Wam is scum, always, always kill Bessie.

Keep an eye on Frozen.

Trust Xivii and Ryker. Have more limited trust in Eido. Maven, UP and Vicarin are all likely misyeet bait.

This is the way.

 

[Xivii]

LaserGuy(4): Xivii, Bessie, Fontisian, Vicarin
Wam(3): UtopianPoyzin, FrozenFlame, Eido
Bessie(3): RedRyu, Wam, Ryker
Xivii(2): LaserGuy

Not Voting(3):
Malakandra, Somitomi, Maven89

 

[Vicarin]

Yeah, I noticed that after, even better.

huh?

You're continuing to come up with theories to explain what you've seen as suspicious behaviour, even if they're completely wacky and require incredibly specific setups. While the effort put in is nice, realisitically we need more evidence before we can call out 2 different specific 2 person scum teams.

 

[Xivii]

I don't think I'm caffeinated enough to understand what you're saying!

 

[Xivii]

This is the game Frozen was talking about by the way. It actually looks like quite a decent possibility, especially considering Chaco was in this game.

 

[Vicarin]

Ha.

You were coming up with a bunch of theories on page 22 over 4 posts in a row and ended with

This is literally something that I propose every game that is a closed setup, but if I guess it every game I'll have to be right some time right: multiball - Laser & Wam, Bessie & Frozen? I think that makes Masons make sense.

I personally think we just don't have enough evidence to prosecute people further than "I think you're probably scum" for a few people, while you're going "Guys I think I know both the 2 person scum teams D1". While I like the idea, I don't think we have enough to go on to distinguish between a bunch of different scum teams without some flips. Hence my original comment.

 

[Xivii]

@ Vic that's obvious. Of course, we don't have enough information.

This is the game Frozen was talking about by the way. It actually looks like quite a decent possibility, especially considering Chaco was in this game.

For the lazy:

Alive:

1. Frozenflame (replaced Macman Day 1), Rude (mafia interceptor)
2. Mentos, Reno (mafia hexer)
3. Chaco, Rufus Shinra (mafia boss)

Returned to the Lifestream:

1. NPC, Zack Fair (town vigilante), died pre-game.
2. Gheb (replaced Blazer Day 1), Angeal Hewley (vanilla townie), lynched Day 1.
3. McFox, Vincent Valentine (town cop), died during Night 1.
4. KevinM, Tifa Lockhart (town masoned roleblocker), died during Day 2.
5. Handorin, Dr. Shalua Rui (vanilla townie), lynched Day 2.
6. Rockin, Denzel (vanilla townie), died during Night 2.
7. Junglefever, Sephiroth (independent serial killer/marker), died during Night 3.
8. Chill, Professor Hojo (vanilla townie), died during Night 3.
9. Riddle, Cloud Strife (town vigilante, formerly independent amnesiac) died during Night 4.
10. Xsyven (replaced Omni Day 3), Aerith Gainsborough (town doctor), lynched Day 5.
11. Omis, Barret Wallace (town masoned voteblocker), endgamed.
12. Ronike, Nero the Sable (unlynchable independent sibling), endgamed.
13. Marshy, Weiss the Immaculate (unkillable independent sibling), endgamed.

 

[Vicarin]

I wouldn't waste time trying to guess the entirety of scum in the setup on D1 then if you think there's not enough information. Unless you just want to look like a genius if you luck out and hit them all, I guess?

 

[Xivii]

I just like to get things into the public consciousness in case I die. And see what can be gained from it by how/who responds. Like that game from Frozen. And also for closed theme games, piecing together the setup is a part of the fun for me.

 

[Wam]

wtf, here: let me pull that out of the box.

I thought you had done it deliberately.

This probably doesn't need saying, but if you're town and we're going to yeet you, please claim with plenty of time for us to assess your role.

Nope not going to claim today helps mafia more. Will.claim first thing day 2 if i live that long.

So what are these two posts to which you refer, in which you call me scum with a reason attached that I can respond to, and not just a vague feeling?


#636

There's nothing to refute, you put me low on your list with no reason, and you hadn't expressed any suspicions of me previously.


#715

Your "talking about" was post #636?


#763

Why do you need Red Ryu’s read before you post your own, since as you say yours will be meta based so should be completely different from his?


#784

Why? Because I'm not Laser or do you have a reason?



It's Thursday in your time zone so I'll be waiting for that read.

Yes if I vaguely put you low.on a lost when your town you would.push back even if theres nothing specific to refute that's the whole argument your not playing as town bessie.

You posted at 3 am in the morning but yes it's this post!

Tbh I dont have anything else to say directly on bessie. I have made my case xivii has made their case.

Consider, you are Wam, you're scum with Laser and Bessie. People are onto you and Laser, and independently scumreading Bessie, but they think Bessie/Laser aren't a team. What do you do?

You need to get your head out of your tunnel. If your town you need to think about if your wrong. What is your view of Bessie if I am town?

I'm getting to the point where I cant see town font or scum font pushing a day 1 tunnel so hard which confuses me a lot!

 

[Wam]

Vicarin
Malakandra
#HBC | Ryker
fontisian

Laser versus me is TvT what does that do to your reads/lynch choices?

 

[Chaco]

BoomFrog replaces Somitomi effective immediately. They are kind’ve busy until Friday though. Due to the length of Day phase an extension will not be granted in this case.

 

[Wam]

BoomFrog

Welcome boom. I know chaco said you are busy till Friday. Howvever, I would be very interested in your bessie read.

 

[Vicarin]

Laser versus me is TvT what does that do to your reads/lynch choices?

In that case I'd prefer to lynch Sabrar/UP or Xivii, as per my lynch order. Wouldn't really impact my reads beyond you two.

We still doing the Lynch in 10ish hours strat?

 

[Wam]

I'm flexible either way on the lynch time.

 

[fontisian]

Wam , why is Laser town?

We should wait for Boom to catch up before yeeting.

 

[Wam]

I haven't seen any reactions that have really stood out as particularly interesting except maybe Vicarin. The problem with using a mass claim proposal to generate reads is that's it's an issue lots of people have opinions about so it is easy for them react to it naturally if they are mafia. In Vicarin's case, I've played with him before and have seen him react aggressively to these sorts of gambits both as Town and as scum, so I don't feel confident drawing any strong conclusions about him just yet.

Here why would scun laser be pushy g the natural reaction. Would be easier to drive mis lynches based on mass claim.

Catch up page 7-9 present:



A setup with both an IC and masons seems incredibly broken to me.



It shouldn't be hard to guess the reason that I believe this to be the case. But color-coding alignments is standard here. Green is more conventionally Town though. I just find it odd that when you weren't sure if that was Malakandra's role or flavor, that you didn't consult your own role PM to check.



Vicarin was scum in B99 and Town in Stellaris so it seems kind of a wash to me.



I think bessie is scum for other reasons, but I don't think that her giving you a hard time for not answering her questions or engaging with her is AI.



What do you make of Xivii having a strong Townread on him already?



Why the change of heart on Frozen?



Which Secret Santa are you referring to?



Yes.

The claim here as to why the setup us broken doesn't come from scum laser. For all scum laser know all town have are ic + masons.

Interesting developments. I'm a little suspicious how many votes appeared so quickly off of Xivii's paper-thin case on me. Maven's vote in particular looks very suspicious for reasons discussed below, but I wouldn't be wholly surprised if there wasn't at least one more scum in there.

With four votes already and one or two people seeming to express an interest they will join, I imagine I will be claiming soon, but I will wait until King Malakandra says I should.

Was hoping to get through all of these but ran out of time. So Vic, bessie and Xivii will have to wait until tomorrow. Sorry Ryker.

Reads so far:

Malakandra - Confirmed Town.

Ryker - Claimed mason. Play seems very consistent with his claim and was townreading him before his claim anyway. Very likely Town.

somitomi - His content is typically light and often makes him kind of lynchbaity, but he is fairly easy to read on tone. somitomi has a very noticeable difference in style in his scum play compared to his Town play, particularly in that he is much more businesslike and his posts come across as much more polished as mafia. Likely Town.

fontisian - fonti seems to be playing a much more straightforward game in the vein Midnight Ops rather than TIL. One thing I noticed fairly early on is that she was very willing to commit to Townreads (e.g. here, here, here, here), whereas on TIL she seemed much cagier about commiting to her opinions. I can't rule out entirely that this is still in her scum range as she's really impressed me in the last two games, and if this game goes long and poorly this is probably going to be the first slot I will revisit, but at this point I think she's Town.

FrozenFlame - Content is light but nothing really stands out to me as problematic and his analysis has felt pretty solid to me. Tonally I don't get any weird vibes from him. Would like to see more from him but he's a Town lean for now.

Sabrar/UP - Activity/engagement levels from Sabrar are much more consistent with his Town play than his scum play in SS and tonally he feels fine to me. Doesn't scream Town!Sabrar as much as his last game did, but I don't have a problem with what I see. His case on Xivii is good, and generally I feel Sabrar comes out looking better overall in this exchange. His claim is verified and is plausible as both a Town and scum role so I'm not putting a lot of weight on that. UP's content so far looks fine and I think him coming out with a strong statement about townreading me when I'm being pushed is probably not what scum wants to be doing here. Town lean.

Eido - Asks a lot of good questions, hasn't committed to a lot of opinions. Doesn't strike me as obviously newbie Town. Need to see more concrete opinions from him to be able to get a better sense of him. NullTown.

Eido , could you give an ordered list of who you feel is most likely Town/scum?

Red Ryu - Content was pretty poor up to #442. Subsequent content has been somewhat better as he seems to be actually trying to sort people and make some waves. Haven't played with him before outside of Crossover (he was mafia) and I don't really recall much about him that game other than that he was kind of on the bubble for most of the game but we could never quite yeet him. Will probably end up deferring to one of the #HBC people I trust on this one. NullTown for now.

wam - Push on fonti doesn't look great. Was still fairly early in the game and several people had much worse content than fonti (e.g. Ryu/Maven), so this doesn't come across as a particularly Town-motivated push. Not much to go on from more recent content. I agree with Xivii's meta that his content does look more polished this game, but I'm less certain that his engagement levels are consistent with this. Also this meta is very publicly known so it's hard to say how valuable the tell is going forward. On balance, leaning scum.

Maven - I'm very suspicious of this read of me:


As far as I can see, I've only played one Town game with Maven and it was several years ago ina non-standard setup, so I'm very skeptical that he would remember anything about my Townplay from that or be able to draw any conclusions from it. In contrast, I have played a few games with him where I was scum and one where I was indy.

Now, actually we have played one recent game, Oasis mafia, a couple months ago, and Maven gave this read of me at the time:

Note he doesn't mention how he expects me to play as Town this game, likely because he doesn't remember as he's only seen it once, quite awhile ago. I find it hard to believe that a Town player would seriously make a cold meta read like he did in this game based on such limited information. I feel it's much more likely the case that this is opportunistic scum looking for an excuse to vote me without really thinking about the implications of his read... possibly some meta assistance from a scummate.

In the event of a scum flip here, I would take a close look at Vicarin. Scum.

Vote: Maven

This seemed a measured response to the pressure on him.

I also think scum laser would be pushing myself or bessie as counter wagons no digging into xivii.

 

[Wam]

fontisian now answer my question

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

People called in sick today and I got stuff to do after work. Will not he here much for today just as an fyi

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Still no power. Phone is dying.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay. 2% battery. Turning off my phone.

Consider me voting LaserGuy. I'll go somewhere to charge my phone and will actually vote tonight or tomorrow if needed for majority.

Unvote

Dont want to leave that around so people can hijack a lynch with me being less around.

A powerline in the area snapped in half, so no idea when I'm getting power back.

 

[Eido]

I'm around for a bit. At work now so I'll keep this tab open and chill.

 

[Eido]

You can try reading #606 . And Xivii’s vote is irrelevant to my decision.

I read #606. Your Ryker read looked more impassioned (you implied he slipped, and assumed he cleared players). You spent a lot of time with him.

Why did LaserGuy become #1 for you above Ryker, at that point?

 

[Wam]

I'm around for a bit. At work now so I'll keep this tab open and chill.

If your here what do you think of my laser defence I did for font.

 

[LaserGuy]

Sorry I guys, I haven't been around much this week. I have not really had the time/motivation to play very much, or, apparently, very well.

I'm actually not opposed in principle to being yeeted today. I feel like I'm more of a distraction than anything else at this point and it's likely that at least one of me/Wam (hopefully not both) will need to be yeeted before Town will get their act together.

I'm not planning to vote either wam or bessie defensively. I don't think either is likely to flip scum. Of the players that have been floated as options today, the only one that I'd consider is FrozenFlame.

I will have some final thoughts before the EoD so I would really appreciate it if fontisian and BoomFrog do not flash yeet me again.

 

[Eido]

Wam Finding it difficult to follow.

Your saying Scum Laser wouldn't push for a natural reaction. It would be easier to drive mislynches based on mass claim if he were Mafia.

You believe Laser as Mafia would agree with Ryker's approach at the beginning?

 

[Wam]

Wam Finding it difficult to follow.

Your saying Scum Laser wouldn't push for a natural reaction. It would be easier to drive mislynches based on mass claim if he were Mafia.

You believe Laser as Mafia would agree with Ryker's approach at the beginning?

Just re read it and yeah I didnt make it clear. Has been a long week. Will try and tidy it up!

 

[fontisian]

Here why would scun laser be pushy g the natural reaction. Would be easier to drive mis lynches based on mass claim.


The claim here as to why the setup us broken doesn't come from scum laser. For all scum laser know all town have are ic + masons.



This seemed a measured response to the pressure on him.

I also think scum laser would be pushing myself or bessie as counter wagons no digging into xivii.

You think scum!Laser would be pushing Bessie, someone you have called very likely scum, instead of Xivii? Bull ****ing ****.

 

[Wam]

You think scum!Laser would be pushing Bessie, someone you have called very likely scum, instead of Xivii? Bull *ing *.

This only works as a point if you assume that all of me, laser and bessie are scum? If laser is scum and one of me and bessie are town (hint I am) why wouldnt scum laser push a counter wagon in self defence?

 

[fontisian]

This only works as a point if you assume that all of me, laser and bessie are scum? If laser is scum and one of me and bessie are town (hint I am) why wouldnt scum laser push a counter wagon in self defence?

No, Wam. If you are town and believe Bessie is scum, and you've said you do, why would you ever think Laser not pushing Bessie is a point in his favor?

 

[Wam]

Did you miss the "or" in my pose

 

[fontisian]

Did you miss the "or" in my pose

I did not. You are, or course, allowed to say scum!Laser would be pushing town!you (I don't think he would, because he's so scumread, he thought you'd get yeeted first anyway, and you flipping town when he defends you might save him). You do not get to say that he'd be pushing Bessie, when you think Bessie is scum. You had a mindset slip.

 

[Xivii]

I feel like I'm more of a distraction than anything else at this point and it's likely that at least one of me/Wam (hopefully not both) will need to be yeeted before Town will get their act together.

It's very unliky town Laser would feel this confidently about wam.

 

[Wam]

Fixes are a pain in the ass on this website. Attempt

I haven't seen any reactions that have really stood out as particularly interesting except maybe Vicarin. The problem with using a mass claim proposal to generate reads is that's it's an issue lots of people have opinions about so it is easy for them react to it naturally if they are mafia. In Vicarin's case, I've played with him before and have seen him react aggressively to these sorts of gambits both as Town and as scum, so I don't feel confident drawing any strong conclusions about him just yet.

Here why would scun laser be pushing the theory that natural reactions to the mass claim are easy as both alignments. Would be easier to drive mis lynches based on mass claim. Or at least throw some shade.

Catch up page 7-9 present:



A setup with both an IC and masons seems incredibly broken to me.



It shouldn't be hard to guess the reason that I believe this to be the case. But color-coding alignments is standard here. Green is more conventionally Town though. I just find it odd that when you weren't sure if that was Malakandra's role or flavor, that you didn't consult your own role PM to check.



Vicarin was scum in B99 and Town in Stellaris so it seems kind of a wash to me.



I think bessie is scum for other reasons, but I don't think that her giving you a hard time for not answering her questions or engaging with her is AI.



What do you make of Xivii having a strong Townread on him already?



Why the change of heart on Frozen?



Which Secret Santa are you referring to?



Yes.

The claim here as to why the setup us broken doesn't come from scum laser. For all scum laser know all town have are ic + masons.

Interesting developments. I'm a little suspicious how many votes appeared so quickly off of Xivii's paper-thin case on me. Maven's vote in particular looks very suspicious for reasons discussed below, but I wouldn't be wholly surprised if there wasn't at least one more scum in there.

With four votes already and one or two people seeming to express an interest they will join, I imagine I will be claiming soon, but I will wait until King Malakandra says I should.

Was hoping to get through all of these but ran out of time. So Vic, bessie and Xivii will have to wait until tomorrow. Sorry Ryker.

Reads so far:

Malakandra - Confirmed Town.

Ryker - Claimed mason. Play seems very consistent with his claim and was townreading him before his claim anyway. Very likely Town.

somitomi - His content is typically light and often makes him kind of lynchbaity, but he is fairly easy to read on tone. somitomi has a very noticeable difference in style in his scum play compared to his Town play, particularly in that he is much more businesslike and his posts come across as much more polished as mafia. Likely Town.

fontisian - fonti seems to be playing a much more straightforward game in the vein Midnight Ops rather than TIL. One thing I noticed fairly early on is that she was very willing to commit to Townreads (e.g. here, here, here, here), whereas on TIL she seemed much cagier about commiting to her opinions. I can't rule out entirely that this is still in her scum range as she's really impressed me in the last two games, and if this game goes long and poorly this is probably going to be the first slot I will revisit, but at this point I think she's Town.

FrozenFlame - Content is light but nothing really stands out to me as problematic and his analysis has felt pretty solid to me. Tonally I don't get any weird vibes from him. Would like to see more from him but he's a Town lean for now.

Sabrar/UP - Activity/engagement levels from Sabrar are much more consistent with his Town play than his scum play in SS and tonally he feels fine to me. Doesn't scream Town!Sabrar as much as his last game did, but I don't have a problem with what I see. His case on Xivii is good, and generally I feel Sabrar comes out looking better overall in this exchange. His claim is verified and is plausible as both a Town and scum role so I'm not putting a lot of weight on that. UP's content so far looks fine and I think him coming out with a strong statement about townreading me when I'm being pushed is probably not what scum wants to be doing here. Town lean.

Eido - Asks a lot of good questions, hasn't committed to a lot of opinions. Doesn't strike me as obviously newbie Town. Need to see more concrete opinions from him to be able to get a better sense of him. NullTown.

Eido , could you give an ordered list of who you feel is most likely Town/scum?

Red Ryu - Content was pretty poor up to #442. Subsequent content has been somewhat better as he seems to be actually trying to sort people and make some waves. Haven't played with him before outside of Crossover (he was mafia) and I don't really recall much about him that game other than that he was kind of on the bubble for most of the game but we could never quite yeet him. Will probably end up deferring to one of the #HBC people I trust on this one. NullTown for now.

wam - Push on fonti doesn't look great. Was still fairly early in the game and several people had much worse content than fonti (e.g. Ryu/Maven), so this doesn't come across as a particularly Town-motivated push. Not much to go on from more recent content. I agree with Xivii's meta that his content does look more polished this game, but I'm less certain that his engagement levels are consistent with this. Also this meta is very publicly known so it's hard to say how valuable the tell is going forward. On balance, leaning scum.

Maven - I'm very suspicious of this read of me:


As far as I can see, I've only played one Town game with Maven and it was several years ago ina non-standard setup, so I'm very skeptical that he would remember anything about my Townplay from that or be able to draw any conclusions from it. In contrast, I have played a few games with him where I was scum and one where I was indy.

Now, actually we have played one recent game, Oasis mafia, a couple months ago, and Maven gave this read of me at the time:

Note he doesn't mention how he expects me to play as Town this game, likely because he doesn't remember as he's only seen it once, quite awhile ago. I find it hard to believe that a Town player would seriously make a cold meta read like he did in this game based on such limited information. I feel it's much more likely the case that this is opportunistic scum looking for an excuse to vote me without really thinking about the implications of his read... possibly some meta assistance from a scummate.

In the event of a scum flip here, I would take a close look at Vicarin. Scum.

Vote: Maven

This seemed a measured response to the pressure on him.

I also think scum laser would be pushing myself or bessie as counter wagons no digging into xivii.

Think that's fixed and makes more sense.

 

[fontisian]

It's very unliky town Laser would feel this confidently about wam.

Yeah.

It's pretty crazy? Like, Wam is being unbelievably scummy and Laser is defending him for what, not following other people's votes? Except Wam literally followed other people's votes earlier. Laser's either blind or scum.

 

[Wam]

I did not. You are, or course, allowed to say scum!Laser would be pushing town!you (I don't think he would, because he's so scumread, he thought you'd get yeeted first anyway, and you flipping town when he defends you might save him). You do not get to say that he'd be pushing Bessie, when you think Bessie is scum. You had a mindset slip.

Or I could be wrong about bessie. Which is a possibility.

Your writing everything from your tunnel. And still havent answered my question. If laser and I are both town who do go for?

 

[Wam]

Yeah.

It's pretty crazy? Like, Wam is being unbelievably scummy and Laser is defending him for what, not following other people's votes? Except Wam literally followed other people's votes earlier. Laser's either blind or scum.

Where? Other xivii?

Which is one not multiple.

 

[fontisian]

Or I could be wrong about bessie. Which is a possibility.

Your writing everything from your tunnel. And still havent answered my question. If laser and I are both town who do go for?

Dude, I answered your question before you asked it. I'd go for Bessie, Frozen or Red Ryu.

You could be town who's wrong on Bessie, sure. But there's no reason for you to think Laser refusing to help push her is a reason to believe he's town. It should be something that's making you doubt him. Especially when you've already said:

Quick post.

Bessie is scum. I have called bessie scum twice on what I am going to admit is a weak meta basis. She hasnt responded to either. Town bessie gets very aggressive when you call her scum and wouldnt ignore it. This is scum bessie.

Vote bessie