Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

[fontisian]

Where? Other xivii?

Which is one not multiple.

Sabrar, xivii, Maven, Bessie (I don't remember if she had votes, but the pressure was there).

The only independent push you've made was on me.

 

[Wam]

Your reaching a lot.

Sabrar was rvs....
Xivii I followed.
Maven I gave my reasoning.
Bessie you realise I got there early?

 

[fontisian]

Your reaching a lot.

Sabrar was rvs....
Xivii I followed.
Maven I gave my reasoning.
Bessie you realise I got there early?

View attachment 290661

No, I think not.

You followed UP and Laser onto Maven, when he was already a main target of suspicion.

You followed Xivii's case onto Bessie.

Imagine, believing Bessie is scum, as you do, reading Xivii's case against her, and then praising Laser for voting Xivii over Bessie.

It's not a real read and you are not town.

 

[Wam]

I ninjad xiviis case.... he literally wrote it in his case......

 

[fontisian]

I ninjad xiviis case.... he literally wrote it in his case......

Do you think Xivii is town or not, Wam?

 

[Wam]

Do you think Xivii is town or not, Wam?

Yes

But you have accused me of following votes, I have shown 2 of your examples are wrong. Any comment?

 

[BoomFrog]

I'd been keeping up expecting to replace in until about page 5 or so. As Chaco mentioned I need to catch up on work today, and it looks like deadline is tomorrow at 6. So, no way I'm going to be able to read all 25 pages. Can everyone give me a link to their most recent reads list or post a new one and tag me in that post?

BoomFrog

Welcome boom. I know chaco said you are busy till Friday. Howvever, I would be very interested in your bessie read.

What is the case on Bessie?

I will have some final thoughts before the EoD so I would really appreciate it if fontisian fontisian and BoomFrog BoomFrog do not flash yeet me again.

Mistakes were made... and Fonti was scum. fontisian as town would you have yeeted someone who was not there to defend themselves or would you have pushed harder to yeet DH/Osie in that situation?

I'm actually not opposed in principle to being yeeted today. I feel like I'm more of a distraction than anything else at this point and it's likely that at least one of me/Wam (hopefully not both) will need to be yeeted before Town will get their act together.

What the situation here?

 

[fontisian]

Yes

But you have accused me of following votes, I have shown 2 of your examples are wrong. Any comment?

They're not wrong. Don't worry, I'll show you when I get back to my laptop.

You think Xivii is town and Bessie is scum. And yet you included Laser voting Xivii instead of Bessie as a reason to townread him. How, exactly, do you explain that?

 

[fontisian]

I'd been keeping up expecting to replace in until about page 5 or so. As Chaco mentioned I need to catch up on work today, and it looks like deadline is tomorrow at 6. So, no way I'm going to be able to read all 25 pages. Can everyone give me a link to their most recent reads list or post a new one and tag me in that post?


What is the case on Bessie?


Mistakes were made... and Fonti was scum. fontisian as town would you have yeeted someone who was not there to defend themselves or would you have pushed harder to yeet DH/Osie in that situation?


What the situation here?

Bro, if I were town in that game DH would have been dead by EOD 2 at the latest.

I think there's about two scum between Laser, Wam and Bessie. I'm deciding who I want to yeet among the three of them.

 

[Wam]

I'd been keeping up expecting to replace in until about page 5 or so. As Chaco mentioned I need to catch up on work today, and it looks like deadline is tomorrow at 6. So, no way I'm going to be able to read all 25 pages. Can everyone give me a link to their most recent reads list or post a new one and tag me in that post?


What is the case on Bessie?


Mistakes were made... and Fonti was scum. fontisian as town would you have yeeted someone who was not there to defend themselves or would you have pushed harder to yeet DH/Osie in that situation?


What the situation here?

My case here

Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

@Maven89, I would like an answer to this: So which games in particular were you thinking of when you said you thought that my play here did not look like my previous games? And also, can you explain what you found memorable about those games?

smashboards.com

Xiviis follows immediately

 

[Wam]

They're not wrong. Don't worry, I'll show you when I get back to my laptop.

You think Xivii is town and Bessie is scum. And yet you included Laser voting Xivii instead of Bessie as a reason to townread him. How, exactly, do you explain that?

Go for it.

And l used laser not pushing other easy wagons as a reason to town read him.

 

[LaserGuy]

BoomFrog :

Going to highlight Malakandra's reads since Mala is confirmed Town and those are probably the best place for you to start.

My reads Part 1. Part 2. These are a bit out of date and I will post some newer stuff before EoD. Not really important, but I think you will appreciate this.

What the situation here?

I have played somewhat different from my usual style for reasons and a lot of people have scumread me for it. I'm sitting at 4 votes right now and there's at least two people who have indicated they will vote for me. While the end of day is technically tomorrow, Malakandra has requested that we consolidate by this afternoon as he won't be around on Friday.

 

[LaserGuy]

BoomFrog

Also, Ryker has claimed mason, and Maven has claimed ascetic.

 

[LaserGuy]

And Sabrar/UP is a double voter of sorts (their first vote is persistent, that's why Xivii has two).

 

[Chaco]

“Cmon over for dinner, we’re having porkchops”

Vote Count 1.6:
Wam(3): UtopianPoyzin, FrozenFlame, Eido
Xivii(2): LaserGuy
Bessie(2): RedRyu, Wam,
LaserGuy(4): Xivii, Bessie, Fontisian, Vicarin

Not Voting(4):
Malakandra, Somitomi, Maven89, Ryker

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Someone link Boom my reads list, though he likely would need to cross reference my last one.

Have a phone charger now, hooray!

 

[Malakandra]

Welcome Boom!

Wam if you and Laser both flip town I look to FF/Xivii.

 

[BoomFrog]

Bro, if I were town in that game DH would have been dead by EOD 2 at the latest.

Yeah, but not the question I was asking but also not worth getting into.

I think there's about two scum between Laser, Wam and Bessie. I'm deciding who I want to yeet among the three of them.

Full town to scum list with a sentance about each would be appreciated.

 

[BoomFrog]

but I think you will appreciate this.

 

[Maven89]

Yeah I’m not seeing Bessie lynch. I understand she hasn’t done much, but what she has done is point out the dumb points out against her, and almost nothing else. While I’m not town reading the slot I don’t see that close to being worthy of a day 1 lynch when we have Wam and Laser.

BoomFrog my reads are here https://smashboards.com/threads/ape...day-october-30th-6pm-est.507976/post-24144440

since then I had an epiphany about the oddness of masons and an IC and have been low keyed worried that Ryker might be taking us for a ride, but until we have any proof I’m still treating him as town based off of his content

 

[Maven89]

Vote: Wam

I can see a world where Laser is town, I don’t see one where Wam is town

 

[Maven89]

Actually, never mind

unvote: wam

vote: laser

This is purely a strategic decision based off how much we will learn from his flip base Wams.

 

[fontisian]

Spoiler

Frozen town (lol). Not for this.

I'm not defensive, and do not consider Wam a threat. I'm pushing on this because he was already trying too hard to look towny, which you noticed, and he doesn't actually have reason for his push on me, he just feels like it's what town!him would be doing after he lost to me last game. But it's not what town!him would actually be doing, because he knows I was super active throughout Things and willing to drown the thread when needed. He's experienced with what me being active without trying for attention is like, and knows this isn't it. That's why he just said "ok" when I pointed out that I was active without being able to back it up.

You literally just said "given font has lied where are your votes." You implied certainty that I'm scum for lying, when you also seem aware that it wasn't an intentional or important lie.

Xivii is town because he wouldn't have posted his theories about which characters are which role in the thread, he would have kept it in scumchat while hoping we flavor claim.

Plus this thing:

Is this going to help with solving? Probably not. Is it a real way Xivii was trying to figure out the game, that only makes sense from a town perspective. It probably is.

Let's talk about Wam. I hate this from him:

Why? Because there's no follow up, it's just ****-slinging. It's one-step removed, because is what he thinks town!him would be looking into to solve, but he's not actually doing the work of solving. Consider that instead of saying this, town!Wam could have held his tongue and looked for people using the claim discussion to look busy and involved, and then pushed on them. But he did do that. Instead scum!Wam thinks joining on the discussion would be scummy, so he does the opposite, and tries to end, and thinks it will make him look towny.

It takes being prompted for Wam to share some names, and Wam's vote doesn't even end up on them, it goes on me for not posting content, when I wasn't even here. He has a stated idea (the people discussing massclaiming excessively might be scum trying to fake content) and, after a push, an idea of where scum might be from that idea (Ryker, Xivii, Sabrar), but he doesn't really care about those ideas, and he's happy to push for content on someone completely different instead. There's no attempt by him to connect the dots.

Side-note: There's a decent chance Wam and Sabrar are scum together, since Wam is pro-bussing and Sabrar was the first to respond to Wam's earlier post (and he didn't attack it).

Also, Wam and Vic aren't scum together. Wam likes to bus, he would be self-conscious about explicitly excluding his teammate from his pool of suspects.

Sure, but that process (doing something outrageous for reactions) is in itself towny, especially when it's combined with an attempt to solve off of those reactions. Xivii has been solving, and I've liked his reads and reasons.

Ay, I've talked myself back around to:
Vote: Wam

Forgive me, Lord Xivii.


Shout out to Somi for pointing out that Wam liked how I dealt with the massclaim (a one-off post saying "it's not fun, leave it alone" with the intent of ending discussion) so I was actually doing the exact opposite of what he said he thought scum might be doing. My reaction was closest to his, so his vote on me may have been projection (i.e. he knows what he's doing is scummy, I'm doing something similar, so he mentally categories me as scummy).

Also, it's just weird that he decided to pick on me "active lurking" when I was just straight up lurking. Like, did he see a post that made him think of me? Why was I even someone he was thinking about? The most likely scenario is that he had to go back over the massclaim posts when he was asked which people specifically he disliked, and that led him to see my posts again, which in turn led him to notice my lack of content. That's moderately scummy, actually, because it meant Wam had to refresh himself on the thread to figure out his suspects and didn't already have some thoughts on specific people being scummy in mind when he made that "scum could be using the massclaim talk" post. I may not be explaining this well, if you don't get it, ping me and I'll try again.

Somi's town. I really doubt scum!Somi thinks it's a good idea to question town!Ryker's mason claim, and I'm pretty sure Ryker is town anyway.

I'm down for yeeting Sabrar slot, his focus on semantics in his arguments with Vicarim and then Xivii are bull.

Frozen shade rescinded.

I'm guessing this post from Ryker was an attempt to bait out a fake mason claim that he could then counter. Small possibility that he's scum and a. thought we shouldn't have masons because of the inno child and b. the reactions to this rolefish further convinced him of a lack of masons, but I'm fine with the rest of his play.

I'm not reading it as towny as you are, I think, except for the Maven stuff, maybe. I liked the reactions to me. I'm willing to give him space to work.

I disliked the phrasing around the bessie stuff, specifically the "But I heard Bessie is mason." I may be misreading it, but it seems like he's hedging on whether Bessie is actually a mason and maybe doesn't fully believe it, which feels kind of scummy. Alternatively, UP could be meaning "but /then/ I heard Bessie is a mason," in which case he's just explaining his process and the phrasing is fine.

Anyway.

@Xivii, I think Laser's content is just kind of fine? He's not as towny as he was at the beginning of Things I Like, but that can be explained by more limited time and him not being in a tunnel. His actual reads whenever I go over them seem perfectly fine. I'm not clearing him, the pressure is useful, but I'm not interested in joining you there right now.

I also liked these points from Laser. He has every reason to doubt me as much as he wants as scum. If he's scared I'd push back, he could instead try to placate and townread me. This is a very strange middle ground that feels real in its complexity.

Yeah, you're right, that's a good post from UP.

You're also right about Laser's focus and how he's using his time.

I'm not sure re: him townreading me though. You and Laser have different experiences with reading me. I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to read me the same way and time you do.

This could actually be towny from Sabrar. Like, I was asking him to elaborate and instead he just kind of stuck to his guns, and that attitude tends to come from town who feel like they've already been clear more often than not.

Yeah, basically all of the things Laser chose to respond to here were pointless, the exception being the thing about Bessie.

Eido's body of work as a whole reads like new town, I think. It's fairly relaxed and inquisitive, not self-conscious, and solving oriented. He's especially focused on trying to figure out which player's reads on other players can be trusted, presumably so he can build his own reads from them.

I have played one game with Wam. My type of play focuses on mindset, where I attempt to put myself in another person's shoes, as much as possible, and understand their play from their perspective. Failing that, I instead categorized them into a player archetype, and assess their behavior within that framework.

My last point about Wam was question why town!Wam gets suspicious of me in the first place. Why was I, someone who was not around at all, was someone he was thinking about when he had another angle to scumhunt with but chose not to pursue. Generally, when someone gets suspicious of someone else, it's because they see one of that person's posts and it sparks a new line of thought. But I had no recent posts, so there was nothing immediate to spark Wam's suspicion of me. My assumption then is that he likely went back through the thread and read one of my posts while doing that. That rereading was likely done in response to him being asked to elaborate on a statement ("scum might be using the massclaim discussion to fake content".)

So why is that scummy? Well, consider how you might be playing the game if you, like Wam, believed scum might use the massclaim stuff to talk about irrelevant things and look towny. Personally, I, before even sharing that thought, would have specific people in mind who might be abusing the massclaim talk, and I'd be looking at other things they were doing. I'd have names ready. Wam did not have those names ready, he made a suggestion ("scum might be doing "x") but had to look back through the thread to remind himself of who was doing "x." The original town thought process was missing.

Does that make sense?

The kind of consistency in reads is actually what I aim for. I want us to be right and on the same page, and squeeze scum out. Also, Mala is clear, Ryker claimed Mason, and I'm me, so of course everyone's going to be townreading us.

I understand why this may feel weird for you as someone towards the bottom of most people's reads, but if you are town, that's something we can fix.

It's not like it'd be hard to verify Maven's ability. I'm inclined to believe him.

It's a negative town utility role. Presumably, we need some of those, because if every town had something useful this would be a steamroll.

It's not as useful for scum as you might think. And it's more verifiable than you realize.

Town
fonti
Mala
Xivii
Ryker
Eido
UP
Maven
Somitomi

Meh
Vicarin
FrozenFlame

Not Town
Bessie
Red Ryu
Wam
Laserguy

Now we're getting somewhere.

My vote is on Laser, Chaco .

It wasn't your last post, I just thought about it more.

I know that you are as a town player are generally inactive and behind the thread. You are thus usually concerned about being misyeeted. As scum, your claim may have been an attempt to clear yourself early or get ahead of a massclaim. But it wasn't that. You were genuinely worried you would get scumread off your claim, so your desire to counterbalance it with content and subsequent claim when you realized you weren't going to get that content out in a timely manner make sense. You are not scum who believes the claim will help you in any way, you are town who believes you have to get the claim out Today to avoid other town wasting their actions on you and who is worried you'll be yeeted for making it.

This is town.

This is scum.

Because you're talking to the person you're voting.

Because you're asking me why I'm scumreading you instead of why I'm townreading your strongest scumread.

Because you don't care about mason/inno child interaction, you just think Ryker is town lying about being a mason.

Not the fact that you're talking to Maven, the way you're talking to him. You're not trying to figure him out at all.

Why does your townpings from Maven being discussed make them NAI? That doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not sure how you can be certain Ryker is lying unless you know a fair bit more about the setup than I do.

This is a town reaction. It's probably wrong (I think there's a fair chance Ryker /would/ lie about being a mason as town), but it's town.

You're a wolf.

I am really, really certain UP is town.

@Xivii and others, for when you're feeling doubts in the mid game.

Look at his process, look at the way he's willing to push against consensus, look at how his perspective comes from genuine feelings he's trying to figure out.

The names came after he was asked, that's my point. He didn't have them on hand as something he was already thinking about, he had to go back and look for them.

Lol. Because inno children and masons aren't as scary as a strong player. I'm not saying I'll die tonight, but I expect it'll be sooner than later.

Frozen, I hear you about UP. I don't think he is trying to make people doubt themselves here? I think /he/ is experiencing doubts, but isn't trying to push them on others. I'm up for discussing this with you.

I think Frozen's read on UP is nuanced enough that he's likely just town.

That leaves my Not-Town's at:
Vicarin
Bessie
Red Ryu
Laserguy
Wam

With the consideration that Bessie and Laserguy are slightly less liking to be scummates, based on her push on him.

Laser, I find your points uncompelling and dull. You will make a fine sacrifice to the yeet gods.

I expect to read your posts and find points that challenge my view of the gamestate. Things against my views that are nonetheless convincing. Nothing you have said today has been convincing.

He has shaped up, to an extent. He is easier to follow here than he was in Things. However, I think he is also more manipulative here than in Things, and that's not something a scumplayer can just fix.

I've noticed Wam pinging out Laser and Ryu more than other players. Curious.

Spoiler

And by curious, I mean this is the team.

You can just feel their desperation to yeet literally anywhere else. Maven, Xivii, Bessie, anywhere as long as it's not Wam, Laser or Ryu.

Laser, I want you to convince me. That won't convince me because it's nonsense. Wam is nothing like he was in the previous game. In Things, he pushed where he wanted to and took things at his own pace. Here he is hyper cognizant of the votes and pressure occurring around him and trying to make his reads fit in.

It also implies that you haven't read anything I've written against Wam, which has been about how hard he's been trying to project towniness this game and how his thought process isn't consistent. I obviously know he didn't vote me over the massclaim stuff, and that was never a part of my argument, what even are you saying?

Alright, alright, jeez.

They're both town. Xivii's doing his paranoid explore all worlds thing and fluidly moving through his suspicions as they do scummy or towny things.

Ryker's in the same place as me a lot, his response to me asking him to stop disrespecting Sabrar was to be paranoid that I was scum trying to manipulate his process, and the mason claim means he's locked into a corner if he gets to late game anyway.

I will say that I experienced some doubts on Xivii earlier today, because his language felt kind of wooden, but I think they're representative of me being in a weird headspace than Xivii actually not being town.

I've noticed Frozen's language seems more, humm, lawery this game. Wasn't sure if that's just my different perspective.

Consider, you are Wam, you're scum with Laser and Bessie. People are onto you and Laser, and independently scumreading Bessie, but they think Bessie/Laser aren't a team. What do you do?

This being on a different page made me laugh.

My legacy is Wam, Laser and Bessie must die. If Wam is scum, always, always kill Bessie.

Keep an eye on Frozen.

Trust Xivii and Ryker. Have more limited trust in Eido. Maven, UP and Vicarin are all likely misyeet bait.

This is the way.

You think scum!Laser would be pushing Bessie, someone you have called very likely scum, instead of Xivii? Bull *ing *.

Yeah.

It's pretty crazy? Like, Wam is being unbelievably scummy and Laser is defending him for what, not following other people's votes? Except Wam literally followed other people's votes earlier. Laser's either blind or scum.

For you, BoomFrog .

 

[fontisian]

I'll say that if I am wrong on a townread, it's /probably/ UP, since he's fallen off pretty hard.

 

[BoomFrog]

fontisian
I find your monster lists of your out of context quotes to be unhelpful. Was that really easier for you to create then a few sentences summarizing your case on wam with a couple of the most important quotes?

Did you read all of Vanilla Mafia?

 

[fontisian]

fontisian
I find your monster lists of your out of context quotes to be unhelpful. Was that really easier for you to create then a few sentences summarizing your case on wam with a couple of the most important quotes?

Did you read all of Vanilla Mafia?

That's too bad. I have read very little of Vanilla Mafia.

I don't need your vote to yeet Wam or Laser, I already have the authority and positioning to make a decision there. What you have to offer me is 1. perspective, if you have any, which requires you understanding the complexity of the cases in a way that cannot be summed up in a few sentences or 2. analysis from you that I can use to clear you. You cannot offer either of those without catching up somewhat, and understanding the context, and me offering a list of truncated reasons would be pointless.

Catch up, and if I'm still in the game, we'll talk about it.

 

[BoomFrog]

You also need me to trust you on later Days and therefore need to leave as thick a paper trail as possible. But fine, presumably you've left clear reasons that I will gather as I catch up. Do you have objection to providing a full town to scum reads list?

From the bits I've read so far LaserGuy's claim that he changed his style to try to avoid tunneling fits with his expected growth from last game. Same thing with wam being more aggressive, he felt he lost at the end because I didn't town read him and decided he'd been too passive. Also, wam conflating lurking and active lurking is within my expectations of wam and NAI imo.

UP dissapearing for large swaths randomly, including completely missing deadline is NAI, he did the same in Vanilla and Oasis. UP's concern about everyone having the same reads list was a super townie thought and I'm surprised that you don't hard town read him for it.

 

[fontisian]

You also need me to trust you on later Days and therefore need to leave as thick a paper trail as possible. But fine, presumably you've left clear reasons that I will gather as I catch up. Do you have objection to providing a full town to scum reads list?

From the bits I've read so far LaserGuy's claim that he changed his style to try to avoid tunneling fits with his expected growth from last game. Same thing with wam being more aggressive, he felt he lost at the end because I didn't town read him and decided he'd been too passive. Also, wam conflating lurking and active lurking is within my expectations of wam and NAI imo.

UP dissapearing for large swaths randomly, including completely missing deadline is NAI, he did the same in Vanilla and Oasis. UP's concern about everyone having the same reads list was a super townie thought and I'm surprised that you don't hard town read him for it.

Good to know re: UP's activity. I did in fact hard townread his thoughts about similar readslists.

Wam is being manipulative and his processis fake. You can see it in everything he does.

Laser isn't trying to solve the game. He is somehow still voting Xivii, without any decent reasons and with Xivii being clearly town, and his Wam read is atrocious. He knows I am town and is more focused on getting me off his ass than on actually finding scum.

 

[Vicarin]

Guess we're not doing the early yeet.

Hey BoomFrog!

 

[Malakandra]

Yah, the replacement changes that for me personally.

 

[Vicarin]

What's the plan then? Just normal deadline, hope that not having you online at the time isn't too bad?

 

[Malakandra]

Thats fine with me. I think wagons are going to be between Laser and Wam, and if everyone votes then without me there can't be a tie. Honestly me voting just taints the wagon info. If I'm alive, I plan to play more actively tomorrow, but since I've been not pushing any wagons theres not much point on me jumping on one.

 

[Malakandra]

Though if FF is a wagon I wouldn't mind at all.

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog my reads are here https://smashboards.com/threads/ape...day-october-30th-6pm-est.507976/post-24144440

Thanks. Although that's not a full list. Can you give me the whole player list in a sorted order? You can note which ones are gut reads and which are based on actual analysis of you want. No ties please.

 

[BoomFrog]

Thats fine with me. I think wagons are going to be between Laser and Wam, and if everyone votes then without me there can't be a tie. Honestly me voting just taints the wagon info.

Actually I think the opposite plan is ideal. It's too bad I didn't start in this game because this is an ideal situation for my hammerer game. You should stop giving your opinion on players alignments now. Ask town to drum at least one person up to L-1 ideally two. Everyone can make their arguments and then you hammer or declare we need a new wagon and that person is off the table for the day. This will maximize the difficulty of scum since they don't want to bus D1 but don't know if any given wagon will lead to a hammer. The most important thing is that we all need to think you really might hammer any particular candidate.

Between the two I:

Vote wam

Fonti's case on LaserGuy only holds up if they are scum together, otherwise LG wouldn't be trapped in a town wam read.

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy is Fonti town? Why?

 

[Malakandra]

Actually, I may vote here.

Actually I think the opposite plan is ideal. It's too bad I didn't start in this game because this is an ideal situation for my hammerer game. You should stop giving your opinion on players alignments now. Ask town to drum at least one person up to L-1 ideally two. Everyone can make their arguments and then you hammer or declare we need a new wagon and that person is off the table for the day. This will maximize the difficulty of scum since they don't want to bus D1 but don't know if any given wagon will lead to a hammer. The most important thing is that we all need to think you really might hammer any particular candidate.

Between the two I:

Vote wam

Fonti's case on LaserGuy only holds up if they are scum together, otherwise LG wouldn't be trapped in a town wam read.

I'd be down for that, unfortunately I'm going to be totally gone starting like 4 hours before deadline. However I support this idea if it can get done before deadline.


Wam LaserGuy I want claims. I don't care what excuse you have.

Same goes for FF if they start getting wagoned.

 

[Eido]

Malakandra before you go in a few hours, can you give me any info about Frozen? You mentioned him in your reads but if you've got any more insight, it would help me build a better picture of him.

 

[Malakandra]

what do you want to know?

 

[BoomFrog]

He knows I am town and is more focused on getting me off his ass than on actually finding scum.

Why is it inconceivable that he is town and is confident you're town?