Event - Apex 2015 APEX 2014 Ruleset Proposal: Timer Change

[KoRoBeNiKi]

People need to discard this mentality that 64 is a fast-paced, aggressive game.

It's far more similar to Brawl than melee.

lolno
You do know that in 64, we use 5 stocks in 8 minutes? Not 4 like melee or 3 like brawl? But what is the reason? It is quite simply because the game is fast played, with less defensive options than melee and certainly 50,000 less than brawl.

 

[trash?]

closest comparison you get to brawl is that there's kind of that floatiness, but that helps in 64 because mixed in w/ hitstun it's why you're dying in two combos or less with every character

tbh the last thing brawl will EVER need is something that can make matches even longer, just go to 2 stocks already and let ZSS have an extra buff from now technically having half the match be theoretically based around her item play

 

[| Big D |]

More stocks = more consistent outcomes which is ideal in a competitive environment.

Unless you add to the number of matches in a set at which point it becomes a debate.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

lolno
You do know that in 64, we use 5 stocks in 8 minutes? Not 4 like melee or 3 like brawl? But what is the reason? It is quite simply because the game is fast played, with less defensive options than melee and certainly 50,000 less than brawl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHUm-QVXK6Q

Also, some people (myself included) prefer 4-stock for Smash 64. The 5-stock is a carry over from the days where Smash 64 was less developed and was played aggressively.

Yes, games go faster in 64 than in Brawl, and yes, defensive options are fewer, but that's not the comparison I was making. The actual neutral, spacing game itself is almost IDENTICAL to Brawl's - anyone who has played either game at a high level can point this out.

The speed increase is a result of how much more potent punishes are in Smash 64, not an actual 'fast-pace'.

 

[TKD]

I agree that Smash 64 is extremely slow-paced. It's just so darn boring to watch...I cried tears of boredom all over my monitor when watching Apex 2013 grand finals.
It's slower than Brawl, or at least more boring to watch.

People just play keep-away all day in that game. I know that the level of risk is higher because 1 hit = like half a stock, but even the combos are slow...they're mostly based on the huge hit-stun.

It's just less spectator-friendly than Brawl, and that's kinda saying a lot maybe.

Wait...are we off topic?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHUm-QVXK6Q

Also, some people (myself included) prefer 4-stock for Smash 64. The 5-stock is a carry over from the days where Smash 64 was less developed and was played aggressive.

Yes, games go faster in 64 than in Brawl, and yes, defensive options are fewer, but that's not the comparison I was making. The actual neutral, spacing game itself is almost IDENTICAL to Brawl's - anyone who has played either game at a high level can point this out.

The speed increase is a result of how much more potent punishes are in Smash 64, not an actual 'fast-pace'.

watch lf or loser' semis instead of bringing up by far our slowest match in the past 5 or 6 yeaye also this is a general response to both you and tko, id quote both but on a bad phone.

the reason why this was the case in this match was quite simply the matchup itself. As i know that you and tko play brawl, you can compare kirby vs. Whoever as being similar to ic's vs. Anyone in brawl. The other character avoids kirby/ics because they want to avoid being up tilted (ala 64) or grabbed (Ala brawl) and would prefer being b-aired (in both games) and take the miniscule damage and try to recover.

the gfs happened to be a war of attrition, like i see in the majority of matchunin brawl.

in terms of speed, while 64 is indeed slower than melee, it is still quicker than brawl. The ats require faster hand speed and there are quick characters (fox, yoshi, ness) who all require perfected movement in order to combo properly.
I will give a bigger response later but yes we did consider two options for this game, ban hyrule the actual source of camping or keep it fast paced on DL and the vast majority of the community preferred removing hyrule.

personally i barely know anyone from the 64 community who prefers 4 stocks outside of the players in japan.

 

[trash?]

if you're allowed to use that as an example of 64 gameplay, does this mean we're allowed to use M2K v. NAKAT where they both just stand still for a solid minute as an example of brawl gameplay

e: or jiggs v. ylink in melee, to complete this comparison

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

if you're allowed to use that as an example of 64 gameplay, does this mean we're allowed to use M2K v. NAKAT where they both just stand still for a solid minute as an example of brawl gameplay

e: or jiggs v. ylink in melee, to complete this comparison

i would or that 8 minute plank vs. Jigglymaster match, or the pink shinobi match in melee or a whole lot of other matches that went to time in brawl or m2k in general in 64.

a good 90-95 percent of melee matches most likely could be considered aggressive. Compare that to brawl or 64. blame the fact that our 2nd best character in 64 is quite campy (along with pikachu dittos) and so is the top 2 in brawl and then some.

 

[Fireblaster]

if you're allowed to use that as an example of 64 gameplay, does this mean we're allowed to use M2K v. NAKAT where they both just stand still for a solid minute as an example of brawl gameplay

e: or jiggs v. ylink in melee, to complete this comparison

i would or that 8 minute plank vs. Jigglymaster match, or the pink shinobi match in melee or a whole lot of other matches that went to time in brawl or m2k in general in 64.

a good 90-95 percent of melee matches most likely could be considered aggressive. Compare that to brawl or 64. blame the fact that our 2nd best character in 64 is quite campy (along with pikachu dittos) and so is the top 2 in brawl and then some.

Lol you guys don't have to look that far, you can get one of the biggest recent examples (as far as big tournaments go):

I agree that Smash 64 is extremely slow-paced. It's just so darn boring to watch...I cried tears of boredom all over my monitor when watching Apex 2013 grand finals.
It's slower than Brawl, or at least more boring to watch.

People just play keep-away all day in that game. I know that the level of risk is higher because 1 hit = like half a stock, but even the combos are slow...they're mostly based on the huge hit-stun.

It's just less spectator-friendly than Brawl, and that's kinda saying a lot maybe.

Wait...are we off topic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHUm-QVXK6Q

Also, some people (myself included) prefer 4-stock for Smash 64. The 5-stock is a carry over from the days where Smash 64 was less developed and was played aggressively.

Yes, games go faster in 64 than in Brawl, and yes, defensive options are fewer, but that's not the comparison I was making. The actual neutral, spacing game itself is almost IDENTICAL to Brawl's - anyone who has played either game at a high level can point this out.

The speed increase is a result of how much more potent punishes are in Smash 64, not an actual 'fast-pace'.

This is a ****ing joke right? Please tell me you guys are just pretending to be ********/trolling and not actually being serious? In that 64 match you posted, sensei was sandbagging by not picking pikachu and straight up going to town on m2k. There's no way you can be serious when the second biggest set of apex 2013 for brawl started out like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dH242vVf4WI&t=272

One minute without anybody getting hurt. The only matches in 64 where it took a minute or more for someone to get hurt took place on hyrule and that stage is (finally) banned now. 64 is more boring to watch than smash bros:metaknight-no-damage-fest edition? Are you going to cherrypick another 64 match from a local tournament where one of the players is sandbagging again? You're making the rest of the brawl players look bad so stop posting nonsense.

 

[The Star King]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHUm-QVXK6Q

Also, some people (myself included) prefer 4-stock for Smash 64. The 5-stock is a carry over from the days where Smash 64 was less developed and was played aggressively.

Yes, games go faster in 64 than in Brawl, and yes, defensive options are fewer, but that's not the comparison I was making. The actual neutral, spacing game itself is almost IDENTICAL to Brawl's - anyone who has played either game at a high level can point this out.

The speed increase is a result of how much more potent punishes are in Smash 64, not an actual 'fast-pace'.

64's neutral game almost identical to Brawl's? Are you ****ing kidding me? Kind of tempted to sig this, because it's that preposterous.

anyone who has played either game at a high level can point this out.

I think the statement you're looking for is "anyone who has played either game at a high level will laugh in my face for what I just said."

I have played one of these games at a high level. And I am currently laughing.

TKD is a Barlw player, Fireblaster, so don't be too surprised. Anyway not gonna deal with the topic of how entertaining the games are to watch since that's subjective (though obviously I prefer 64).

 

[asianaussie]

grim please stop making australia look bad

i do that way more than enough already

 

[xDD-Master]

This thread is about Brawl not 64 guys, just to remind you.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

This thread is about Brawl not 64 guys, just to remind you.

I (and the rest of the people probably) know that already. Regardless of the game there were false comparisons so we decided to post regarding this.

People whos goal is to time out will time out regardless of what the timer is set at. Ive tested this several times. Ive had people time out 20min timers. increasing the timer DOES NOT stop time outs. It only makes the event run longer.

Basically, what Xyro said

Though I will say that this makes ICs even better as it would be harder to run away from them for another 2 minutes. (Do you guys really want to improve the 2 best characters even more)

 

[Kayo]

You should just do SF rules and go 1 Stock 99 second timer Bo3-1 game in a set.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'd probably watch more Brawl if the matches were 2 stock (which is a lot considering I don't watch any Brawl).

 

[Tesh]

I'd probably watch more Brawl if the matches were 2 stock (which is a lot considering I don't watch any Brawl).

yea, me too, when i watch brawl and youtube i just read the comments and skip the the good part or the end.