Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[TheDivineDeity]

Robin has a back story. Robin has a defined personality, pre-destined role, set voice lines and dialogue, and a fixed pool of character interactions that further solidify a very fixed story (compared to the hundreds of villagers in AC). All you customize about Robin is a limited set of physical features, barring a few lines of dialogue that change should they marry Chrom or Lucina, but the story is completely the same. Her personality is completely the same. Her actions in the story are completely the same. You can pick between three voice sets per gender, but the dialogue is still the same. Robin is a set character, and after you pull up that hood there is nothing customizable about her.

Technically speaking, by that logic, all the dialogue is also the same for the Villager, because it all involves the same lines of script that is predetermined by the game's programming. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you on this debate, but in terms of dialogue, both the Avatar and the Villager are just as limited with determinism of dialogue as any other video game character - they are both limited by their interactions with certain characters, in that they can choose which character they can speak to, as an illusion of free will, but the dialogue is still pre-rendered and largely the same.

 

[Opossum]

Spoiler

hnnnngck

I am not supposed to marry Chrom to my avatar for my latest file. I told myself I wouldn't do this.

Is that official art that I haven't seen yet or fanart? Either way, it's pretty well done. Do you know the artist by any chance?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Illustration of the ending, art by Yusuke Kozaki.

 

[Opossum]

Illustration of the ending, art by Yusuke Kozaki.

Thanks, Habanero.

 

[Bowserlick]

Nice deltoid shot.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I still believe that Chrom is by far the most likely Awakening rep (which I definitely see happening). The Avatar may be able to sidestep the customization problem, but I still don't see it as a character that will make it into Smash Bros.

Lucina I don't see happening either. I think a problem that persists in multiple fanbases is that certain characters are more likely because people say they are. However, I will reiterate a point that I believe remains true for every single series besides Pokemon.

The main character/ mascot of each franchise, or their respective game has been included over every single other character that they are up against. That means that until every other major character has been included, several character will probably not have a chance.

Personally, I wouldn't doubt if Sakurai views Fire Emblem the same as he views Pokemon. Who's the hot lord right now? Who's popular? Yadda yadda yadda. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing that a lord is recent. As other have said, a character gets in based on more than their recency. As far as Smash support, Chrom is ahead of both Lucina and Robin in this regard.

I firmly believe that Chrom is leaps and bounds ahead of the other two, but if Chrom does not get in, I could absolutely see Lucina and Robin get in in his stead. I'm sure many people will not agree with me here.

In regards to my Pokemon vs. Fire Emblem argument, here is an example. Pokemon has several different generations with several (hundred) different Pokemon. Fire Emblem has a new game with a new cast every game (besides Shadow Dragon right?). Basically, saying Mewtwo is more likely than Zoroark is the same as saying Chrom is more likely than Roy. It's the exact same thought process. (I still want Chrom AND Roy, but I don't think it will happen). Really, Roy is like the Ruby/Sapphire rep of Fire Emblem. At this point, it would be out of the blue to include him over Chrom, like it would be strange to include Blaziken over Mewtwo..

For Lucina and Robin, they could happen. But I really don't think they will.

 

[Hong]

^ Basically. Some people don't want to hear it, but Chrom is the most likely roster addition from the Fire Emblem series.

By that very same token, if Marth and Chrom are in, I have a hard time seeing Lucina there as well (unless she is paired with Chrom). People are eager to say "Oh we can have Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina and Chrom", and technically they would be correct. However, Nintendo has so many characters and products and universes that need proper love and attention. They all need unique play styles, quirks, and proper attention so that they are distinct and balanced. This is not like Street Fighter where we can have five shotos and be happy with it. People are still bitter about semi-clones and certainly wouldn't be happy if there were only luke-warm differences. Even then, as a Fire Emblem fan personally I would be rather perplexed if the entire representation of Fire Emblem consisted of blue-haired swordsmen if we had more than two characters. The series has so many great weapons and abilities.

As such, I also see Robin as having her own breathing space. If they think she has cool gameplay possibilities, she will be a character. Again, this will most certainly be a third representative if it comes to pass. The most likely outcome is a showing of Marth and Chrom, with Robin as a possible third. On the grounds that she actually can't offer anything Marth or Chrom (or even Ike) can't, there must be a certain merit that they value enough to include her.

 

[Groose]

I haven't played Awakening, but I'm willing to support one of its characters. The problem is, I need convincing. Someone, give me the sales pitch. Three quick reasons why Chrom would be better suited to the job than Lucina or Owain.​

 

[FlareHabanero]

Someone, give me the sales pitch.

He's a recent Lord, and he's got a sword, and a generic design.

Yay...

 

[Groose]

He's a recent Lord, and he's got a sword, and a generic design.

Yay.

That's... not the pitch I was expecting.

 

[Opossum]

I wouldn't listen to Habanero right now, considering he's a known Chrom detractor.

I haven't played Awakening, but I'm willing to support one of its characters. The problem is, I need convincing. Someone, give me the sales pitch. Three quick reasons why Chrom would be better suited to the job than Lucina or Owain.

Okay, I shall give a sales pitch.

Okay, so one way that Chrom could work is as a Stance character, as noted in my moveset in the OP. In other words, he could switch between his Falchion and his lance for certain moves. No other character in Smash can do that, yet.

In addition, he could offer a Healing gimmick. Late in the game, without giving too many spoilers, one upgrade Chrom gets allows him to heal damage using his blessed sword. This could be a rather interesting mechanic, as seen in Project M's Ivysaur.

Alternately, he could work as a tag-team character if the dev team is really in dire straits to make him really stand out, as if the first two weren't enough. For this, Lucina could work as a tag partner.

All in all, Chrom has a lot of ways he could work as a character, making the possibilities of his playstyle pretty diverse, despite what some would lead you to believe.

As to why to pick him over Owain or Lucina, Owain really doesn't offer as much, as he is just an extra character obtained in a Paralogue (an optional chapter). He's pretty much just a swordsman with a funny personality.
Lucina is a bit more of competition. However, it is, in my opinion, a bit harder to make a bit unique. Sure, she could also use the stance gimmick, but she lacks the healing factor. Additionally, I don't think she's nearly as important enough to the game to warrant playability over Chrom. Plus, not looking exactly like Marth is also a plus for Chrom.

That, and if you want an added bonus trivia bit, his English voice actor directed There Will Be Brawl, a Smash-based web mini-series that takes Smash to a darker tone. In it, he also plays Ganondorf and Hannibal Lecter Kirby.

 

[FlareHabanero]

That's... not the pitch I was expecting.

Well too bad, he's going to end up as an easily disposable clone of Ike anyway, much to the dismay of all two people out there.

 

[Opossum]

Well too bad, he's going to end up as an easily disposable clone of Ike anyway, much to the dismay of all two people out there.

Speaking in absolutes only hurts your credibility. Stop being an ass.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

While Chrom is the most recent lord, and he does indeed wield a sword, he can definitely have a moveset that will differentiate himself from the Fire Emblem roster. Chrom can be upgraded in Awakening to use lances, which in turn could be used in his moveset.

Another idea on his style, is that he could play as the middle of the road character. In other words, he is the best of both worlds between Ike and Marth (balanced of course). I propose this moveset because I am completely against the removal of Ike myself. This style of play is different, in that you couldn't play him the same way that you played as Marth of Ike. If we insert lances into this moveset, you add in ranged attacks, and the potential for projectiles.

Lucina, while she COULD be included, is just too similar to Marth. While their designs could be slightly different, it doesn't change the fact that she was made to replicate Marth's appearance.

Owain is in my opinion not even eligible. I mean he is, but there is no reason to choose him over Chrom, Lucina, Robin, or Roy.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well too bad, he's going to end up as an easily disposable clone of Ike anyway, much to the dismay of all two people out there.

Oh for ****'s sake. Grow up.

 

[Hong]

I haven't played Awakening, but I'm willing to support one of its characters. The problem is, I need convincing. Someone, give me the sales pitch. Three quick reasons why Chrom would be better suited to the job than Lucina or Owain.

Basically Ike taught Intelligent Systems that people don't want a lord who is a little *****. At the same time, having royal blood has a lot of potential story elements that you can't have with a mercenary-borne hero, so they returned to their roots of a leading lord character. Out comes Chrom, a very thinly-veiled hybrid of Marth and (Radiant Dawn) Ike. He is beefy, brutish and knows how to live it wild, but at the same time he is clean and mannered (when he isn't pissed; he has a temper). Don't let his station deceive you: he goes around the countryside with a party of three and takes on parties of bandits before eating a ****ing bear.

Chrom is a total sick baller. Even the wind obeys his dramatic command, lifting his cape at the start of battle. After one shotting his 2369087326987th enemy, he plants his sword back in the ground, disregarding the encounter with a simple "RIGHT." Speaking of which, he is voiced by Mathew Mercer, who has done great voices for basically every great thing ever. Different from other lords, aside from being a a total beast, is he does have his own blessings. He can wield lances in addition to swords, which also means access to the coveted javelin.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh for ****'s sake. Grow up.

Stop being an ***.

While denial is such a delicious thing, it's kind of saddening when people see this character as being the pinnacle of characters on par with Captain Falcon or Marth.

 

[Opossum]

While denial is such a delicious thing, it's kind of saddening when people see this character as being the pinnacle of characters on par with Captain Falcon.

Seriously. You're doing nothing but causing problems. But if you really want to live with such a clouded view of things, be my guest. Just don't dour the moods of others because of it. It's really not that hard.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I guess anybody who wants a character other than Ridley, Mewtwo, Palutena or K.Rool is in denial then.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I guess anybody who wants a character other than Ridley, Mewtwo, Palutena or K.Rool is in denial then.

You're saying these words, not me.

 

[Groose]

I think it would be cool to have a lance-driven character out there, though switching stances may be difficult to pull off. Personally, I'm going to withhold my support for the time being; however, know that I won't be heartbroken if Chrom makes the cut.

Oh, and the leaker who leaked the "Chrom and Lucina tag-team" is now under question. Apparently, he also "leaked" Krystal, Mansion Luigi, and Sworddorf for Brawl.

 

[LaniusShrike]

While denial is such a delicious thing, it's kind of saddening when people see this character as being the pinnacle of characters on par with Captain Falcon or Marth.

Wait, other than Marth becoming the poster boy of the series, what exactly makes him more interesting than the other lords? Do people on a whole agree that Marth is a well-constructed character?

I've been under the impression that the lords are consistently the least unique characters in the series, both in design and personality.

While I'm not personally too excited about Chrom, I have trouble saying that he's any worse than the other lords in the series.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Again, people apparently think Super Smash Bros. is a story driven game. Apparently gameplay does not exist anymore.

 

[Opossum]

I think it would be cool to have a lance-driven character out there, though switching stances may be difficult to pull off. Personally, I'm going to withhold my support for the time being; however, know that I won't be heartbroken if Chrom makes the cut.

Oh, and the leaker who leaked the "Chrom and Lucina tag-team" is now under question. Apparently, he also "leaked" Krystal, Mansion Luigi, and Sworddorf for Brawl.

It shouldn't be too hard to pull off a stance moveset. All you need is to just give him an animation to change his weapon and give him a couple of extra moves depending on which weapon he holds. It shouldn't be as difficult as actually switching and loading a whole other character, like the current transformation characters.

But hey, neutrality is better than negativity.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Seriously Habanero, chill out. I don't even like Chrom, and I:
a) don't thing he's a guaruntee
b) have a number of FE characters I would rather see in Smash

And I think you're going overboard with the Chrom hate. Save it for the bandwagonners on GameFAQs.

 

[DraginHikari]

It's kind of funny when I first started playing Awakening for some reason I though Chrom as a blend of personality between Ike and really well... Marth. Really when looking at Chrom he really isn't that bad of a character but like most of the Lords he's just kind the general all around leader and normally good intentions. In Awakening some of this shifts due to the shared role Chrom kind of plays particularly since he shares the must stay alive role with the Avatar. In general he's still more interesting then say Marth, which after playing shadow dragon, I found was far less interesting then expected, his role as kind of the poster boy is really all he has.

 

[jaytalks]

All the lords have had very different fighting styles (as much as a game with a max of four attacks allows) since FE6. Despite their physical similarities, Roy and Elliwood fight very differently. Hector is the only main axe user lord, while Lyn clearly uses a sword sheathing style of iaijutsu. Eirika is clearly a fencer sword style and Ephraim uses a lance as his main. Ike fights with a rough and unconventional style (which relates to their background) that relies on strength (he wields a two handed sword with one hand). He's also clearly based on the mercenary archetype. Micaiah is the only main character who mainly uses solely magic>

Which brings us to the most recent main characters. Robin uses both magic and swords. Lucina has her two specific two handed sword stance not previously use by any other characters, Chrom fights with a certain amount of grace, balance, and flash. So all the lords fight differently, despite what anyone says. Fighting with a sword doesn't mean you fight the same as another sword user.

Character backgrounds matter in the sense that they inform the character's fighting style, design, and abilities. Samus's chozo training is part of her agility and floaty physics. Ike's background as mercenary clearly informs his fighting stance and style, as he was taught it by his father. When Yusuke Kozaki (Awakening's artist) was asked about his character designs, he said that their background and personality informs his designs. So I think talking about those aspects clearly do matter in informing what a character is about and why they are worthy for Smash.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

In general he's still more interesting then say Marth, which after playing shadow dragon, I found was far less interesting then expected, his role as kind of the poster boy is really all he has.

That isn't much of a victory. Shadow Dragon is pretty horrible at character development, which is kinda understandable since it's a bare-bones remake of an NES game. New Mystery(the second DS game) is a lot better in terms of character development if you're interested.

Edit: Though character depth really doesn't have anything to do with Smash.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Fighting with a sword doesn't mean you fight the same as another sword user.

Chrom fights with a certain amount of grace, balance, and flash.

...So, what you're saying is that Chrom is confirmed for Marth clone?

That's the message I'm getting out of this anyway.

 

[Bowserlick]

He should at least pole-vault with a lance if he gets in.

 

[Opossum]

...So, what you're saying is that Chrom is confirmed for Marth clone?

That's the message I'm getting out of this anyway.

I think I know what he's getting at. Essentially, while Marth fights with grace and finesse, Chrom just has a more regal, but powerful, aura about him. I don't know, I'm not the best at describing things, but this is what I was getting out of it.*shrugs*

 

[jaytalks]

...So, what you're saying is that Chrom is confirmed for Marth clone?

That's the message I'm getting out of this anyway.

fighting with a sword doesn't make you a clone. that's the point. marth with his smash iterations clearly fights with the tip of his blade, while there is no indication that Chrom does in Awakening, despite being the same sword (perhaps changed after being reawakened after 2000 years). I didn't mention how Marth fights in the post because I was referring to main characters created after FE6. Marth moves quicker and strikes lower.

There is nothing that indicates Chrom would be a clone or even fight similar based on his appearance in Awakening. They both fight with the same sword, with a different design in both games and possessing different qualities over the course of 2000 years but differently.

 

[DraginHikari]

That isn't much of a victory. Shadow Dragon is pretty horrible at character development, which is kinda understandable since it's a bare-bones remake of an NES game. New Mystery(the second DS game) is a lot better in terms of character development if you're interested.

Edit: Though character depth really doesn't have anything to do with Smash.

Of course it doesn't, was just more of a statement regards to Chrom verses other characters I am familiar with, I have not had a chance to play all the games in the series so some of my knowledge of the other lords is a bit limited.

 

[Igneous42]

Speaking in absolutes only hurts your credibility. Stop being an ***.

 

[Hong]

Whoa. People are acting like Chrom won't just replace Ike.

It's fine, I understand.

Now now, before you let my post invoke your inner rage, hear me out and keep reading. I thought about how we can make Chrom different from Ike. From what I understand, people want Marth, Ike and Chrom all to co-exist, and they want Chrom to be different from previous Fire Emblem entries in Smash Bros. So with that, my concentration was on diversity, making something truly unique, while at the same time still representing the series. With that said I took a few pages from the latest direction of the franchise in Chrom's character design.

Spoiler

I think this design for Chrom would be truly special and bring some much needed zest to the roster.

Tell me what you think.

 

[FlareHabanero]

6/10 needs more sparkles and ribbons.

 

[•Col•]

Okay, I shall give a sales pitch.

Okay, so one way that Chrom could work is as a Stance character, as noted in my moveset in the OP. In other words, he could switch between his Falchion and his lance for certain moves. No other character in Smash can do that, yet.

In addition, he could offer a Healing gimmick. Late in the game, without giving too many spoilers, one upgrade Chrom gets allows him to heal damage using his blessed sword. This could be a rather interesting mechanic, as seen in Project M's Ivysaur.

Alternately, he could work as a tag-team character if the dev team is really in dire straits to make him really stand out, as if the first two weren't enough. For this, Lucina could work as a tag partner.

All in all, Chrom has a lot of ways he could work as a character, making the possibilities of his playstyle pretty diverse, despite what some would lead you to believe.

100+ other FE characters can do the first two things you described. Any FE Awakening character can do the third.

Bad sales pitch.

 

[Opossum]

100+ other FE characters can do the first two things you described. Any FE Awakening character can do the third.

Bad sales pitch.

And could you actually give a list of "100+" Fire Emblem characters that would have any business being in Smash, or are even requested? I'm waiting. Chrom at least makes sense as a Smash character. You're grasping at straws.

The "sales pitch" was meant as a reason to chose Chrom over Lucina or Owain, as Groose requested. And neither Marth nor Ike do those things currently, so I really don't see how what you said serves much purpose, to be honest.

 

[FalKoopa]

100+ other FE characters can do the first two things you described. Any FE Awakening character can do the third.

Bad sales pitch.

But not everyone can get into Smash, now, can they?

 

[Hong]

I have a hard time imagining the proposed stance system actually creating a good dynamic.

The only character that sort of did it right that I can think of is Gen from Street Fighter, where his stance changes both passively and actively as he attacks.

I don't like systems where it is basically having two characters in one or one character with minute changes with no dynamic behind them. People just stick to the one they like. Rather have just had another character. :/