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Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

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TheDivineDeity

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Honestly, I'd rather just have Marth, Roy, and Ike altogether, instead of adding anymore Fire Emblem characters. Let Roy return (decloned) with Marth and Ike, and you will have your fan favorite Fire Emblem characters for Smash. Chrom is not only absolutely unessential to the Smash series in terms of what he would bring (way too many blue-haired swordsmen, clone-similarities between Marth and Chrom, blandness in terms of personality and looks, etc.), but does Fire Emblem really need ANOTHER representative if you just have Roy return? Let's just keep those three characters, let the fans be happy, and end the story.

It may not please the Fire Emblem fans, but again, it's what the Smashverse wants. If the Smashverse wants ONLY Marth, Roy, and Ike, then why change it, just for the sake of a small community?
 

Hong

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I don't buy that.

People who only care about the characters through Smash and not their source material will grow to like whoever else replaces them, as long as the character is delivered right.
 

TheDivineDeity

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Here's the thing, though - Ike is VERY popular with the Smashverse, so how would they take it if he gets replaced by a Marth look-a-like? It's like Lucario being replaced by Zoroark.
 

•Col•

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Hey guys, let's replace Captain Falcon, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Lucas, Pit, and ROB since everyone will just be happy with whoever replaces them. :3c
 
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Hey guys, let's replace Captain Falcon, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Lucas, Pit, and ROB since everyone will just be happy with whoever replaces them. :3c
I honestly wouldn't care if the Climbers, Jiggs, and Lucas go. :troll:
 

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Here's the thing, though - Ike is VERY popular with the Smashverse, so how would they take it if he gets replaced by a Marth look-a-like? It's like Lucario being replaced by Zoroark.
I personally fail to see how Chrom looks much like Marth at all. If anything, it's Lucina that looks like Marth.

I don't see how this
[Collapse=Chrom]
[/Collapse]


looks anything like this.

[Collapse=Marth]
[/Collapse]

That, and I just don't see Chrom replacing Ike at all. If anything, he'd be in addition to Ike.
 

Hong

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Here's the thing, though - Ike is VERY popular with the Smashverse, so how would they take it if he gets replaced by a Marth look-a-like? It's like Lucario being replaced by Zoroark.
And they removed Mewtwo because?

Besides, they didn't know how Ike would fare when they added him to Smash Bros, but they gave it a shot. This time they will be even better at character presentation, and have more experience in understanding what worked and what didn't. No matter what they do, people will be upset. I am sure they can feel very confident adding a popular character from a (relatively) very popular game.

Hey guys, let's replace Captain Falcon, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Lucas, Pit, and ROB since everyone will just be happy with whoever replaces them. :3c
You are almost clever.

Sadly, far from the case. The difference between Fire Emblem characters and all of the characters you mentioned, barring Jigglypuff, is there are hundreds of them with more being added with each instalment, and the series is still active. What is more is they would be succeeded by someone from within their franchise with similar properties and gameplay.
 

TheDivineDeity

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And they removed Mewtwo because?

Besides, they didn't know how Ike would fare when they added him to Smash Bros, but they gave it a shot. This time they will be even better at character presentation, and have more experience in understanding what worked and what didn't. No matter what they do, people will be upset. I am sure they can feel very confident adding a popular character from a (relatively) very popular game.

I HIGHLY doubt Mewtwo has kicked off because of Lucario. If anything, Sakurai didn't have time to finish him. It's clear that out of all the Forbidden 7, Mewtwo had the most coding and development. I don't think Lucario is the reason for Mewtwo's absence. :confused:
 

TheDivineDeity

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I personally fail to see how Chrom looks much like Marth at all. If anything, it's Lucina that looks like Marth.

And while Chrom may not look EXACTLY like Marth, he may come off as a clone, especially with a similar build. I mean, they CAN make him unique, but does it mean they WILL?
 

kikaru

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The same exact thing can be said about Roy as well. Frankly as long as we get a third Fire Emblem character I couldn't care less if it was Roy, Chrom, Robin, Anna, or even Walhart. But regardless of who it is the third Fire Emblem character can most certainly co-exist with Marth and Ike on the roster, all the characters mentioned can bring in interesting qualities and playstyles to the franchise.

Now I'm tempted to make a moveset for the glory that is Walhart.
 

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I mean, they CAN make him unique, but does it mean they WILL?

That can be said for not just any Fire Emblem character, but any character in general. On one end of the fence, we had Captain Falcondorf, but then we also got Wolf, who could have just been another Fox, but was almost completely unique. It's sort of pointless to speculate about it, as Sakurai's kind of a loose cannon like that. Where there's a will, there's a way, after all.
 

Hong

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I HIGHLY doubt Mewtwo has kicked off because of Lucario. If anything, Sakurai didn't have time to finish him. It's clear that out of all the Forbidden 7, Mewtwo had the most coding and development. I don't think Lucario is the reason for Mewtwo's absence. :confused:

And while Chrom may not look EXACTLY like Marth, he may come off as a clone, especially with a similar build. I mean, they CAN make him unique, but does it mean they WILL?
I never said that Mewtwo was removed because of Lucario, so much as it was a statement that character removal will happen, and no matter what people will be upset. Now we don't have enough statistically to make any statements, but sometimes characters not being in the game causes more uproar than those removed. It can be easy to say "Why fix what ain't broke?" but moving on:

It would be one thing to remove Captain Falcon, the holy grail of Super Smash Bros, but honestly unless you axe a truly flagship veteran fighter like Link or Bowser, you are going to have to take risks and make cuts. When they came into SSBB with Ike, he had Ness SSB64 tier popularity... I take that back, probably even less. But they added him to the game and he was... somewhat well received. Funny because the dialogue that people are most captivated by in any localization of the game almost betrays his actual character. Chrom has a much larger install-base and they are all more likely to know what went right and what could be improved upon. I would argue that Chrom already has momentum, as he has design elements inspired by the best of RD Ike backed up by amazing voice talent, all popularity and roster potential aside.

Also Marth is a bit far from Chrom in the way of physique. o.o I would say he is beefier than PoR Ike, but a few years of 'roids beneath RD Ike.
 

•Col•

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You are almost clever.

Sadly, far from the case. The difference between Fire Emblem characters and all of the characters you mentioned, barring Jigglypuff, is there are hundreds of them with more being added with each instalment, and the series is still active. What is more is they would be succeeded by someone from within their franchise with similar properties and gameplay.
You never specified FE characters.

In fact I think you just backtracked because of what I just said. Whatever, man.

People who only care about the characters through Smash and not their source material will grow to like whoever else replaces them, as long as the character is delivered right.
 

TheDivineDeity

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That can be said for not just any Fire Emblem character, but any character in general. On one end of the fence, we had Captain Falcondorf, but then we also got Wolf, who could have just been another Fox, but was almost completely unique. It's sort of pointless to speculate about it, as Sakurai's kind of a loose cannon like that. Where there's a will, there's a way, after all.
Wolf is pretty much a near-clone of Fox and Falco, despite what everyone says.
 

Hong

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You never specified FE characters.

In fact I think you just backtracked because of what I just said. Whatever, man.
Because I do not need to specify series when suitability is a given in the statement. More so given the obvious intent in the post following the prior context of who I am responding to. Considering others understood exactly what I was referring to, I would assume it was sufficient.
 

FlareHabanero

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I love how people bring up personality (of all things) being a very vital asset as to why Chrom will be included as to opposed to, you know, how a character plays. I MEAN EVERYONE PLAYS SUPER SMASH BROS. FOR THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT AMIRITE?
 

TheDivineDeity

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By personality, I mean, perhaps I mean, the way the character looks and feels like playing - the charisma factor that you can find in badass characters like Meta Knight, Ganondorf, or Mewtwo. Why would I want to play as Chrom when I can play as Marth instead? At least Roy looks different enough.
 

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Wolf is pretty much a near-clone of Fox and Falco, despite what everyone says.
Nope. It's really only his Specials that are at all similar. His dash attack, neutral combo, aerials, grab, pummel, throws, tilts and smashes say otherwise. Compare those to five moves that are similar, and he is no where near a "near clone." But let's stay on topic here.
 

FlareHabanero

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By personality, I mean, perhaps I mean, the way the character looks and feels like playing
Character you're probably thinking of. Like, the first impressions forming a mental image on how a character can work out. It's hard to explain exactly, but for example when you see Ridley, the first thing that comes to mind is "large vicious space dragon". You can then use said image to form a coherent mentality on how a character can work. You can do this to practically anything.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Saying a character will be a clone is grasping at straws. That can be said about literally any character up for inclusion.
 

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Just a question to spark some discussion. Would anyone be opposed to Chrom using weapons outside of his Lord and Great Lord classes? While these are his main classes, which let him use Swords and Lances, he could technically also use Bows (through the Archer reclass and its promotions) and Axes (from his Great Knight reclass after he promotes from a Cavalier). In addition, if we include the Dread Fighter DLC, he could use Tomes as well.

Now, I don't find it likely that he'll use anything other than the Falchion and a lance, but would anyone be opposed to him using the other weapons?
 

Hong

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I keep an open mind about it.

Gameplay is the first and foremost concern. If a good move requires a weapon that is not the Falchion, then they should consider it. With that said, there is no reason to have him use a bow. If Chrom is to use a projectile, it is going to be a javelin. Not only does it better reflect his strength, but it is different from the rest of the cast. In theory he could pull out an axe or hammer for one of his attacks, but even then it would seem a bit uncalled for. Unless the hammer was some kind of Shield Breaker, though I don't see that being necessary with all the other specials he can use.

It is an interesting concept I have also considered, though I would be surprised to even see him pull out a lance.
 

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I keep an open mind about it.

Gameplay is the first and foremost concern. If a good move requires a weapon that is not the Falchion, then they should consider it. With that said, there is no reason to have him use a bow. If Chrom is to use a projectile, it is going to be a javelin. Not only does it better reflect his strength, but it is different from the rest of the cast. In theory he could pull out an axe or hammer for one of his attacks, but even then it would seem a bit uncalled for. Unless the hammer was some kind of Shield Breaker, though I don't see that being necessary with all the other specials he can use.

It is an interesting concept I have also considered, though I would be surprised to even see him pull out a lance.
Over all, I definitely agree that it's pretty unlikely. We'd honestly be lucky to even get lances and javelins in his moveset, but they'd be welcomed for sure. I didn't even think of the Hammer being a shield breaker. That's an interesting idea, really.

Still hoping for a stance moveset from Chrom, myself. You know, certain moves change depending if he has his stance set as lance or sword.
 

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@ Opposum, I don't really know if you're looking to add anything to the OP, but i'm going to repost the rant I just posted in the Roster Prediction Discussion Thread.

****. My entire response to Lucina vs. Chrom just got deleted because my laptop hates me. Let me try again.

If it comes down to an Awakening rep, i'm telling you right now it isn't going to be the Avatar. Being customizable is the entire reason the character is in the game. To be YOU. If that is taken away from it, then the character doesn't really have a purpose. At least in Awakening.

We're now down to Lucina and Chrom. Chrom is without a doubt the main character. We have NEVER seen a series get a character besides the main character. It would be like Luigi getting in before Mario if you will. It wouldn't make any sense.

Okay. So they put Lucina on the cover of a Soundtrack. That's nice. However, in the gaming industry, what gets more attention? A game soundtrack, or a game advertisment? Chrom is the front and center Fire Emblem character when it comes to Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem. Not even MARTH, the first Lord and familiar face to fans across the world. Marth is considered a major face of Fire Emblem (or at least in Smash), and not even he is getting into advertisements. But Chrom is.

Compare Chrom to Lucina. As others have said before me, Lucina is an expendable unit. Her major purpose is to deliver a message to move the plot forward, and nothing much else that that. I guess you could say she is similar to Geno's role in SMRPG. Lucina shows up and decides to join Chrom, just as Geno shows up and joins Mario. He comes and has his relevance to the story, but after that, he is optional to have, and while he is important, he is not MOST important. This can be applied to Lucina. She is important, yes. But certainly not MOST important. Chrom on the other hand, is the leader of his Halidom. He is a unit who cannot be killed without having to restart, and he is a character that cannot be switched out. While some may find him "boring" or "has no potential to be unique", those are bull**** arguments. Chrom has just as much potential as everyone else. Not to mention that I don't think you could name me one character who got in based off of their personality or character traits.

Now we're down to Chrom and Roy. Roy's game was released years ago. Honestly at this point, I only see him coming back if Sakurai decides to keep him. Really think about this. If we take away his Smash appearance, what is special about Roy? He is essentially just another lord with nothing to make him stand out besides fire. Not to burst anyones bubble, but we've never seen an out of the blue character from any established series in Smash at this point. No Skull Kid. No LYN even. No Wart. Nothing like that thus far, and I certainly don't see any reason for Sakurai to start with that now.

I see only one of two things happening. It's down to Roy and Chrom. It's either Roy AND Chrom, or Roy OR Chrom. I wish we could see the former, but i'm willing to bet the latter will happen, as unfortunate as that is.

Chrom represents more than just a blue guy with a fancy sword. He is the main character of the most successful installment in a suffering franchise. He defeated the looming power of a god to save his world, and metaphorically, his own series from damnation.

Okay. So Chrom may not have actually done that. The game did. But who would represent the game, and has the popularity to boot? Chrom.
 

DraginHikari

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I've found the Chrom/Lucina conversation more interesting then any new character discussion so far simply because both sides have a lot of very decent points that I couldn't even begin to think of and have organized their thoughts on the matter pretty well. Though I'm more on the Lucina camp, I'm glad to see major support for both of them really. I look forever to whoever makes it in considering I would only be majorly disappointed is if neither of them made it.

Only thing I would argue, between Geno and Lucina is at least Lucina does have a personality and purpose, Geno was literally a walking plot device. XD
 

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@ Opposum, I don't really know if you're looking to add anything to the OP, but i'm going to repost the rant I just posted in the Roster Prediction Discussion Thread.

****. My entire response to Lucina vs. Chrom just got deleted because my laptop hates me. Let me try again.

If it comes down to an Awakening rep, i'm telling you right now it isn't going to be the Avatar. Being customizable is the entire reason the character is in the game. To be YOU. If that is taken away from it, then the character doesn't really have a purpose. At least in Awakening.

We're now down to Lucina and Chrom. Chrom is without a doubt the main character. We have NEVER seen a series get a character besides the main character. It would be like Luigi getting in before Mario if you will. It wouldn't make any sense.

Okay. So they put Lucina on the cover of a Soundtrack. That's nice. However, in the gaming industry, what gets more attention? A game soundtrack, or a game advertisment? Chrom is the front and center Fire Emblem character when it comes to Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem. Not even MARTH, the first Lord and familiar face to fans across the world. Marth is considered a major face of Fire Emblem (or at least in Smash), and not even he is getting into advertisements. But Chrom is.

Compare Chrom to Lucina. As others have said before me, Lucina is an expendable unit. Her major purpose is to deliver a message to move the plot forward, and nothing much else that that. I guess you could say she is similar to Geno's role in SMRPG. Lucina shows up and decides to join Chrom, just as Geno shows up and joins Mario. He comes and has his relevance to the story, but after that, he is optional to have, and while he is important, he is not MOST important. This can be applied to Lucina. She is important, yes. But certainly not MOST important. Chrom on the other hand, is the leader of his Halidom. He is a unit who cannot be killed without having to restart, and he is a character that cannot be switched out. While some may find him "boring" or "has no potential to be unique", those are bull**** arguments. Chrom has just as much potential as everyone else. Not to mention that I don't think you could name me one character who got in based off of their personality or character traits.

Now we're down to Chrom and Roy. Roy's game was released years ago. Honestly at this point, I only see him coming back if Sakurai decides to keep him. Really think about this. If we take away his Smash appearance, what is special about Roy? He is essentially just another lord with nothing to make him stand out besides fire. Not to burst anyones bubble, but we've never seen an out of the blue character from any established series in Smash at this point. No Skull Kid. No LYN even. No Wart. Nothing like that thus far, and I certainly don't see any reason for Sakurai to start with that now.

I see only one of two things happening. It's down to Roy and Chrom. It's either Roy AND Chrom, or Roy OR Chrom. I wish we could see the former, but i'm willing to bet the latter will happen, as unfortunate as that is.

Chrom represents more than just a blue guy with a fancy sword. He is the main character of the most successful installment in a suffering franchise. He defeated the looming power of a god to save his world, and metaphorically, his own series from damnation.

Okay. So Chrom may not have actually done that. The game did. But who would represent the game, and has the popularity to boot? Chrom.
Beautifully said, Scoliosis. Beautifully said. Mind if I add it to the OP in the coming days? Just since I've been busy lately, and it may take a day or two.

And yeah, the ideal situation, in my opinion, is Marth, Ike, Chrom and Roy. As far as likelihood, though, I feel it would only be Marth, Ike, and Chrom/Roy.
 

Hong

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I can't say I agree.
If it comes down to an Awakening rep, i'm telling you right now it isn't going to be the Avatar. Being customizable is the entire reason the character is in the game. To be YOU. If that is taken away from it, then the character doesn't really have a purpose. At least in Awakening.
One could argue the Villager from Animal Crossing is equally or more customizable than Robin. The Villager doesn't have a default name, assumed personality or story. Aside from being a human moving into an animal town, the entire backstory of the villager is up the player. Where as Robin has three body types and voices, the villager has a greater range of attire. In fact, many would say that collectibles, clothing included, is the entire staple of the Animal Crossing series. And they put all of that aside for Smash Bros to make a good game. It doesn't matter if they are a character who has an appearance dictated by the player, so long as they are important and offer new gameplay.

Robin has a back story. Robin has a defined personality, pre-destined role, set voice lines and dialogue, and a fixed pool of character interactions that further solidify a very fixed story (compared to the hundreds of villagers in AC). All you customize about Robin is a limited set of physical features, barring a few lines of dialogue that change should they marry Chrom or Lucina, but the story is completely the same. Her personality is completely the same. Her actions in the story are completely the same. You can pick between three voice sets per gender, but the dialogue is still the same. Robin is a set character, and after you pull up that hood there is nothing customizable about her.

It is vastly untrue to say that a paltry set of customization options is at all the entire reason for My Unit; whether or not you want to be Robin is entirely up to the player. Gosh, many of the development staff plays female avatars, are they all women? With pink hair, a sick coat and magic? You are Robin ever so slightly more than you are Link. You can choose to be Link if you wish, but he still has a life of his own. The customization aspect is merely allowing the player to have more control over a character who is arguably the main focal point of the story, being the catalyst for the fel dragon Grima. You merely change a few outset details of the character, which is very far from an entire purpose. Maybe like 2%. I would blame NoA for changing "My Unit" to "Avatar", and pushing the idea of it being YOU transported into this world into the player's face.

Robin is one of the three lead characters, embodies a central plot element, has a very defined personality and a unique fighting style. This is everything needed to certify a character for Super Smash Bros. Let's not forget that they want to choose characters with unique merits, things only they can do. Whether or not they find a fun and unique play style in Robin is entirely up to the developer, but she certainly has all the credentials.

Not like issues of a customized appearance has to be an issue. Much like with Pokemon Trainer, Villager or WFT, they can just choose whatever gender they feel should represent Robin. It is as simple as giving her different hair and features per colour.

All of that aside, I don't see Robin as competing with Chrom, anyways. Again, both of them are important characters within their respective game, but they both offer completely different gameplay possibilities.
We're now down to Lucina and Chrom. Chrom is without a doubt the main character. We have NEVER seen a series get a character besides the main character. It would be like Luigi getting in before Mario if you will. It wouldn't make any sense.

Okay. So they put Lucina on the cover of a Soundtrack. That's nice. However, in the gaming industry, what gets more attention? A game soundtrack, or a game advertisment? Chrom is the front and center Fire Emblem character when it comes to Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem. Not even MARTH, the first Lord and familiar face to fans across the world. Marth is considered a major face of Fire Emblem (or at least in Smash), and not even he is getting into advertisements. But Chrom is.
Incorrect.

Chrom and Lucina are on the front of the packaging of FE:A for all localizations, are both central to the introduction sequence (along with Robin) and Lucina has roughly as much cutscene exposure as Chrom, with two of them not even featuring him at all. The SMTxFE thing is a complete lie because there is no complete package design yet. The game is too far from development, and whatever you have seen is likely a graphic art created by a third-party as a place-holder. When the actual cover is released, the Fire Emblem community will know.

I will say Chrom is a "mainer" character overall, but Lucina is still a main character, along with Robin. I would argue as "main" as Lyn or Hector to Eliwood. That is a suitable amount. Enough to have Lyn at least make some kind of appearance in Smash Bros, where as Eliwood was eating dust.
Compare Chrom to Lucina. As others have said before me, Lucina is an expendable unit.
Sure, Elincia was an "expendable" unit, too. But she is also one of the most important characters in Path of Radiance, and is one of the four critical plot elements of the story, along with Lehran's medallion, the Mad King's War and Beorc-Laguz tension. I don't think a character being able to incapacitated invalidates their importance at all if they are still more an involved member of a trio of characters.
Her major purpose is to deliver a message to move the plot forward, and nothing much else that that. I guess you could say she is similar to Geno's role in SMRPG. Lucina shows up and decides to join Chrom, just as Geno shows up and joins Mario. He comes and has his relevance to the story, but after that, he is optional to have, and while he is important, he is not MOST important. This can be applied to Lucina. She is important, yes. But certainly not MOST important. Chrom on the other hand, is the leader of his Halidom. He is a unit who cannot be killed without having to restart, and he is a character that cannot be switched out.
Lucina is an important plot element starting from Ch1, resurging in Ch4, and then reappearing again in Ch7, where she basically delivers one of the two critical plot twists, which is finally fully revealed in Ch13. I could argue that after the defeat of Plegia, Chrom is basically Robin's pawn up until the rite of the Awakening in the final few chapters. Up until then, it is all Robin and Lucina causing the most drama and driving the most narrative. Don't get me wrong, Chrom has lines throughout most of the game, but there has to be something said for how Lucina basically represents the future, a key element in the tension late game, struggling to defy fate. Lucina is the ambassador for all the children characters, who may be voluntary, but they are a third of the cast and tell much of the story for what could have been the fate of the world.

Do not get this post wrong. I agree with the idea that:
  • Chrom is a suitable representative for Fire Emblem and he will be a great roster addition.
  • Chrom is a main, important, plot-driving force within Awakening.
  • Chrom is the most likely character to appear in Smash Bros more than a lot of people are willing to accept.
  • Chrom is awesome and sexy as **** and I want Mathew Mercer to reprise his role. Well, you never said that last part, but I had to get it off my chest.
But I can't agree with your reasoning for discrediting Lucina or Robin. Especially Robin, who again, will be included on her own merit that shouldn't really "compete" with anyone else from the series.

Edit - Tried to make it a bit easier to read. :b
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I'll admit my reasoning for the Avatar has been shown to be a bit flimsy. Lucina I don't see happening based on the fact that she was literally designed to be a Marth copy, so even if they look slightly different, they are meant to be that similar to each other.

As far as SMT X FE, at least on Gamestop.com, (or at least the last time I was there), there was an advertisement that had Chrom crossing paths with a character from SMT. If it means anything, Nintendo has both Chrom and this same character on their promotion for Club Nintendo.
 

Hong

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Chrom looks pretty badass, that's why. :b

Should be noted there is another version of Nintendo's graphic art for the same promo that just has the two game covers on it, so I gather they just threw together generic art on a whim. I would certainly hope they don't use that for SMTxFE!
 

FlareHabanero

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Meanwhile, at /feg/, I asked the infamous question.

Those Shulk pictures you see are used to show which posts are mine.




Also, **** you RIBBONS ON EVERYONE.

EDIT: Part two for ****s and giggles.

 

Opossum

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Meanwhile, at /feg/, I asked the infamous question.

Those Shulk pictures you see are used to show which posts are mine.




Also, **** you RIBBONS ON EVERYONE.

EDIT: Part two for ****s and giggles.



Ribbons confirmed for new stickers?

Anyway, they do have varied views, that's for sure. Glad to see someone defended Ike, though.

According to my tally, here's what people said:

Pro-Chrom: 2-ish
Neutral: 6-ish
Anti-Chrom: 2-ish
Ribbons: 1

The ish-es are for in case I misread a neutral position.

So overall, /feg/ seemed to be mainly neutral and/or expecting Chrom, with a few people blatantly against it, and a couple that would like it. I'm curious to see the over all reaction he'd get if he's confirmed. Though, I do hope Ike is confirmed first, just to stop some stupidity, you know?
 

Hong

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hnnnngck

I am not supposed to marry Chrom to my avatar for my latest file. I told myself I wouldn't do this.
 
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