Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[kikaru]

Sakurai has already pretty much said he doesn't "replace" characters on purpose.

"So we’re not going to cut characters out of the way, we’re going to put in as many characters as we can, we really want to do that, because it's good for the fans and good for all of us. But in the event that we do have to cut some characters, I’d like to apologize in advance to those fans."

Ike didn't replace Roy he just had higher priority since he was a new character. The same could happen with Chrom and Ike but I think Ike's moveset not being a clone at all helps his chances as does his seemingly very high western popularity. I wouldn't say anything is certain but if I were a betting man I'd place my bets on Marth, Ike and Chrom as the FE reps I'd be very surprised (in a good way) if we got more than 3 FE reps.



Honestly the whole "mixed results" thing is kinda BS. I think it's really just a vocal minority that actually dislikes him. Most people seem fine with him, might not be their favorite Lord but most don't actively dislike him like members of this board try to imply. He still won the most popular Male character in Awakening easily enough and even in the US facebook poll (which is to be taken with a grain heaping of salt) he scored in the top 5.

For comparisons sake Ike may be big in the west but he actually supposedly scores fairly low on most Japanese polls so you could just as easily say he has "mixed results." For the record I'm not trying to talk down Ike, he's my favorite Lord (I've only played the US games though) just commenting that I think the whole "mixed reception" of Chrom is highly exaggerated.

I only use the term replaced very lightly as I am well aware that Ike had priority over Roy who was also planned. In terms of replaced Ike would've replaced Roy had Roy never been planned to be playable in Brawl (I believe that would be a fair assumption). So yes, Roy was not essentially replaced, he just lost out in priority similarly to how Mewtwo lost out to Lucario but was ultimately planned to be playable. I do wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post though, Chrom is certainly well-received as a Lord but it seems as though the 'mixed reception' towards Chrom is geared towards/ stems from the fans who support him for the wrong reasons such as being the most recent Lord. Some may find him 'bland' aesthetically but others like myself find his character and personality to be much more approachable than most Lords introduced in the series. His playstyle potential, while it has a lower roof than characters like Hector, Anna, Robin, etc. is still unique enough to differentiate him from the rest of the cast and still provide something fresh that vets and newcomers can enjoy.

 

[•Col•]

Honestly the whole "mixed results" thing is kinda BS. I think it's really just a vocal minority that actually dislikes him. Most people seem fine with him, might not be their favorite Lord but most don't actively dislike him like members of this board try to imply. He still won the most popular Male character in Awakening easily enough and even in the US facebook poll (which is to be taken with a grain heaping of salt) he scored in the top 5.

For comparisons sake Ike may be big in the west but he actually supposedly scores fairly low on most Japanese polls so you could just as easily say he has "mixed results." For the record I'm not trying to talk down Ike, he's my favorite Lord (I've only played the US games though) just commenting that I think the whole "mixed reception" of Chrom is highly exaggerated.

It really isn't BS. Plenty of people really just don't like the idea of him being a playable Smash character.

The vast majority actually just doesn't know anything about him.

Also I don't know even know why you even mentioned he was top 5 in the facebook considering there was a huge dropoff from the top picks and he lost to THARJA of all characters for god sakes. Stop trying to mislead people.

Anna almost tied with him for crying out loud.

 

[jaytalks]

It really isn't BS. Plenty of people really just don't like the idea of him being a playable Smash character.

The vast majority actually just doesn't know anything about him.

Also I don't know even know why you even mentioned he was top 5 in the facebook considering there was a huge dropoff from the top picks and he lost to THARJA of all characters for god sakes. Stop trying to mislead people.

Anna almost tied with him for crying out loud.

Website poll (I believe): http://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html
Knights of Iris Poll Translation: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/65964480
He was first in three polls in Japans, two separate gender based polls (one from the Knights of Iris Artbook and one based on the site) and an overall poll.

According to Shortie Poll, he is in demand the most out of any FE newcomer, so there's that. I think there are plenty of Chrom fans out there. The people who don't want him don't have as much of effect as the people who want him, in the sense that I don't think there's anyway for the developers to gauge characters who people don't want in the same way that you can with popular.

That is to say there aren't any official polls that I know of for Smash, FE, etc that can gauge his dissenters. Do dissenters tweet Sakurai or something like that? People not wanting him as a character is rather unimportant relatively to people wanting him as a character. Even if it was, he generates nowhere near the amount of hate as a character like Tingle. People who dislike him don't want him as a character., but I don't think they actively hate him to the extent of Tingle, or anywhere near that. Calling a character bland is much different than hating a character (like many do with Tingle, unfortunately).

So the mixed results criticism isn't BS; more precisely, it doesn't make sense because, A)out of four official polls for FE:A, he has tied for first in two of the gender based polls (with Lucina), gotten first, and been in the top 5 for the last one. He is the most requested FE newcomer in the poll we use on this site. B) The dissenter argument doesn't make sense because unless it reached some type of critical mass. And even then it's arguable the developers could A) assess it B) even care.

 

[Igneous42]

It really isn't BS. Plenty of people really just don't like the idea of him being a playable Smash character.

The vast majority actually just doesn't know anything about him.

Also I don't know even know why you even mentioned he was top 5 in the facebook considering there was a huge dropoff from the top picks and he lost to THARJA of all characters for god sakes. Stop trying to mislead people.

Anna almost tied with him for crying out loud.

Because he still ranked high even if there was a drop off as I stated in my first post that poll is to be taken with a grain of salt. I guess I have no evidence but I'm highly suspicious that there was some major padding going on for the higher up characters. As Jaytalks pointed out he always scores well on any official awakening poll in Japan and most of those are probably more accurate than that facebook one. Pretty much the amount of people who do like him heavily outweigh the people who don't, the people who don't just like to complain loudly about him.

 

[Hong]

That Facebook poll is messed up. When we voted for it, some characters had duplicate entries while others didn't. Since some characters lost votes in the final results, i am inclined to believe the duplicate votes were cut. Also, it was posted on the general Nintendo 3DS Facebook page... Of course anyone familiar with Smash Bros and not necessarily the Fire Emblem series will be more likely to vote for Marth. Also, if it wasn't sketchy enough, you could vote multiple times. This doesn't necessarily mean skewed results, but with a relatively small number of voters it is possible for a group of trolls to tinker around with it as they please.

Please, please, please stop reposting that horrible Facebook poll.

 

[Hong]

There is no reliable way to weigh popularity, and it doesn't matter.

All that matters is that he is popular. People should probably stop throwing around numbers for how popular he is in metrics or minute percentages. All that matters is he is a note-worthy, popular character within his series. If you have ever been on any kind of fan portal for more than five minutes you will see a lot of him. And don't argue with me about why he is popular, either. Whether it is just because he has a big sword, good VA, often found to be attractive, or just having a leading role, he is popular. Does anyone really think that they are going to spend weeks in-front of spreadsheets, sliding around an abacus and sacrificing a goat to conjure a clairvoyant demonic oracle to decipher which character is in fact the most popular rounded to the nearest whole?

If Sakurai is going through which characters to choose from, after he covers very glaringly obvious staples (Mario, Link, Samus, etc.), he is going to start looking at characters based on their merit. He described the process in which he chooses quite clearly: What kind of character are they, what can they offer that others cannot, how do they reflect on the rest of the cast, etc. It is not from just within Fire Emblem, but everything Nintendo, and then-some. In a case like Sonic, the level of popularity was absolutely absurd which was a merit in of itself. No one in Fire Emblem is remotely close to that notoriety so we don't need to talk about it. Certainly popularity bears some import, but so long as it is sufficient we can move onto the next stage.

They know Chrom is a popular character within his series, they know how much they can distort or bend his character to make something fun or unique, they know that no matter what they do some people will rejoice while some others will ***** and cry because Meg wasn't chosen instead. By that very same token I think anyone saying they won't cut Ike because people will be upset is pretty dumb. There are going to be cuts no matter what and people will be upset no matter what. I am not saying Ike is going to be cut but it is a realistic probability when Sakurai knows people are going to be upset regardless. If he wants a good game with characters that are fun, unique and distinguished and not a bloated product with 300 characters that play like ****, they can't please everyone.

I am sure he will look at some of the thousands of tweets and MiiVerse posts here and there over coffee, probably talk to like hundreds of employees about gaming at some point (since, you know, he is not locked in his studio until the project is over and exclusively restricted to his hired staff) and of course consult with IS. What they decide is the most important merit is entirely speculation.

 

[•Col•]

Because he still ranked high even if there was a drop off as I stated in my first post that poll is to be taken with a grain of salt. I guess I have no evidence but I'm highly suspicious that there was some major padding going on for the higher up characters. As Jaytalks pointed out he always scores well on any official awakening poll in Japan and most of those are probably more accurate than that facebook one. Pretty much the amount of people who do like him heavily outweigh the people who don't, the people who don't just like to complain loudly about him.

>references poll results to give evidence that a character is popular
>says to not take said poll results seriously

lol ok guyz

And just to note, I wasn't the one to bring the Facebook poll up to begin with.

And I never said that Chrom wasn't popular regarding FE: Awakening. Just that he is in fact a controversial character in terms of Smash.

 

[Opossum]

And I never said that Chrom wasn't popular regarding FE: Awakening. Just that he is in fact a controversial character in terms of Smash.

This is another thing that I'm not targeting/asking you specifically, but I just wanted to say/point out.

I see this situation with a few characters: the character is said to be a controversial choice here on Smashboards, but they generally are viewed much more favorably elsewhere. For example, elsewhere I've seen much more people liking the idea of Chrom, Bowser Jr., and/or Toon Zelda, to name a few, than here on Smashboards. Meanwhile, we generally view characters like Roy, Toad and Saki more favorably here than others do elsewhere. Basically, I don't think that just the opinion of one site in general is enough to deem a choice "controversial," as different places seem to have a different set of views. That being said, do you know of other places in which Chrom is a more controversial pick?

By that very same token I think anyone saying they won't cut Ike because people will be upset is pretty dumb. There are going to be cuts no matter what and people will be upset no matter what. I am not saying Ike is going to be cut but I am going to say that Sakurai will have to accept the burden regardless of what he does. If he wants a good game with characters that are fun, unique and distinguished and not a bloated product with 300 characters that play like ****, they can't please everyone.

I really liked your post until this part. Mainly due to the fact that speaking in absolutes, like the bolded, never ends well. Other than that, well said.

 

[jaytalks]

>references poll results to give evidence that a character is popular
>says to not take said poll results seriously

lol ok guyz

And just to note, I wasn't the one to bring the Facebook poll up to begin with.

And I never said that Chrom wasn't popular regarding FE: Awakening. Just that he is in fact a controversial character in terms of Smash.

he's not controversial because there's no such thing. There are no dissent polls and he ranks high in the popularity poll that we have on this site and every other poll he's in. Even then, dissent doesn't really matter to Sakurai and company because there is no way for them to gauge it. How is he controversial? because his prediction percentage is higher than his want? He still has a relatively high want.

 

[Hong]

I really liked your post until this part. Mainly due to the fact that speaking in absolutes, like the bolded, never ends well. Other than that, well said.

You are right, I could have included the word "there are chances". That said, I can comfortably bet you $10,000 that at least two characters will not make it back into their game in concrete (IE not alternate colour or something) form, so i don't feel bad about saying that.

 

[Opossum]

You are right, I could have included the word "there are chances". That said, I can comfortably bet you $10,000 that at least two characters will not make it back into their game in concrete (IE not alternate colour or something) form, so i don't feel bad about saying that.

Fair enough. I just don't like absolutes in general.

 

[Hong]

Normally I don't either, though with that post I really wanted to flip the table and step on some hearts.

Theoretically we could all die within five seconds of me writing this but I think it goes without saying. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Igneous42]

>references poll results to give evidence that a character is popular
>says to not take said poll results seriously

lol ok guyz

And just to note, I wasn't the one to bring the Facebook poll up to begin with.

And I never said that Chrom wasn't popular regarding FE: Awakening. Just that he is in fact a controversial character in terms of Smash.

I even said when I first brought it up to take it with a huge grain of salt but the point was he still scored high, just of the polls I mentioned it was probably the least reliable. However I'm not completely discounting it. The fact is though he's not that controversial, there are just a few people who like to complain about him loudly. Honestly outside this forum I never really see people complain about him or feel he shouldn't get in.

On a kinda off topic note it's funny that Flavia tied with two NPCs one being a boss NPC who only appears in one missionon in that picture Jaytalks posted. She wasn't my favorite character but I found her fairly likeable, at least enough to beat out NPCs lol.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm really digging the support for Chrom guys. Really. This thread has been incredibly active as of late.

 

[Deleted member]

All I see from that Facebook poll is that we need Walhart.
We already got Marth.

 

[Game&Watcher]

All I see from that Facebook poll is that we need Walhart.
We already got Marth.

Wal-Mart for Smash 4!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Now i'm just picturing Walhart as an employee of Wal-Mart. He would just strike down annoying customers who had assumed he was a lobster for sale.

 

[kikaru]

Little did we know he's already the president and CEO.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do we not have a Walhart thread yet?
I'm make it myself, but I am in no position to make a legitimate thread for a character I don't know that much about.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Behold, Crom on the Cob! He's much more delicious than the infamous Crom Mousepad and he's got that butter taste that his fangirls crave. *shot*

 

[Hong]

I moisten at the prospect.

I always liked a guy that knows how to lend an ear in times of need.

 

[Opossum]

I will give Chrom this, though. He leads his army just as well as any kernel.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Spoiler

 

[FlareHabanero]

Not here to cause a flamewar (wow a first), but have a bit of /feg/ discussion.

Apparently to these guys, Chrom as a character is seen as generic fluff, but from a gameplay prospective he's seen as more favorable. At least, better then Marth and Roy and such.

Also no, I did not make any of these comments, lurking master race and all that. Calling BS that Chrom, Hector, and Ike are on par with each other though.

 

[Opossum]

Not here to cause a flamewar (wow a first), but have a bit of /feg/ discussion.

Apparently to these guys, Chrom as a character is seen as generic fluff, but from a gameplay prospective he's seen as more favorable. At least, better then Marth and Roy and such.

Also no, I did not make any of these comments, lurking master race and all that. Calling BS that Chrom, Hector, and Ike are on par with each other though.

An interesting viewpoint, that's for sure. I don't go to any chan sites, so that might be why. Although, I will disagree with the person who said Frederick was better. I personally found him rather useless after the first half of Awakening, but eh. Opinions. Nice to see views from other sites. Though, personally, I didn't find Chrom to be that boring, but eh. More opinions.

Good thing Sakurai looks at this with gameplay in mind, based on what the sixth person said.

Interesting nonetheless. It'd be nice to know what the Japanese fans thought of Chrom.

 

[TheKingOfTown]

They're calling Roy an effective combat unit? O_O

 

[Frostwraith]

Stupidity, awful presumptions, lack of logical argumentation and overall hostility like those in the last few pages are the reasons I now hardly visit the SSB4 Character Discussion boards.

Anyway, I have been playing Fire Emblem: Awakening quite a lot recently and I really like the game and the new mechanics. Overall, I liked the story, but I think RD's story was slightly better overall, although I can't deny that this game had also very memorable moments too. The voice acting was way better than Radiant Dawn's and helped to make some scenes feel more natural, unlike what happens in certain parts of Radiant Dawn.

Being the second FE game I've played and the first one I played to have Support Conversations, I can see why many people complained about the lack of those in Radiant Dawn. That made me like the character cast of Awakening overall a bit more that Radiant Dawn's, since some of Radiant Dawn's characters had no character development, easily becoming forgotten. The only character I didn't like in Awakening was definitely Tharja. She's damn creepy, especially with her stalking of the Avatar.

Regarding, Chrom, I don't mind him appearing in SSB4 and it's a possibility that shouldn't be ignored, but I'd prefer Robin/Avatar or Anna as new FE characters and/or Roy returning. I don't think he's a boring character, but I admit he has a lot of similarities to both Ike and Marth that would make him feel a little redundant if not given a well-thought and creative moveset.

Not favoring him, but not against him either, meaning I'm neutral to his inclusion.

 

[Jaedrik]

An interesting viewpoint, that's for sure. I don't go to any chan sites, so that might be why. Although, I will disagree with the person who said Frederick was better. I personally found him rather useless after the first half of Awakening, but eh. Opinions. Nice to see views from other sites. Though, personally, I didn't find Chrom to be that boring, but eh. More opinions.
Good thing Sakurai looks at this with gameplay in mind, based on what the sixth person said.
Interesting nonetheless. It'd be nice to know what the Japanese fans thought of Chrom.

Levelheadedness like this is why Opossum is great.

Even though I absolutely despise the Chan site (The only two communities I go to are DenKirson's and Smashboards as of now), I must say that I agree with quite a few of the sentiments in that image.
Quite a few people don't like him because of his character and appearance bearing homage to other Lords, and where uniqueness is key I think this makes his merit and deserving far less compared to other FE choices, he's certainly nothing special or iconic or bears mascothood. He's even downplayed within the game itself, with Rukina and Robin taking up huge portions of story.

 

[•Col•]

They're calling Roy an effective combat unit? O_O

Overall, Roy is definitely one of the best FE6 characters in terms of usefulness. Top 10, at least. :3c

 

[ToothiestAura]

Chrom looks boring and generic. His personality isn't that boring, there are just far more interesting characters in the game(s). I mean, if you have to compete with Gaius, Tharja, Robin, Owain and some of the other characters in Awakening you would likely be seen as boring.

Chrom isn't as good as Ike or Hector (at least not without Limit Break), he's not even a powerhouse in his own game. Most of the children characters completely overtake the parent generation in terms of strength. It's not to say he isn't a good unit - he is. He's just not a great unit. His reclassing options give him little useful skills (I think you can get Pavise). While units like Lon'qu can have Astra, Lethality and Swordfaire and the Avatar can, essentially, have any combination of skills that you want. This just makes them perform head and shoulders above Chrom.

 

[DraginHikari]

Though Chrom is not my favorite character in Awakening (That would go to Lucina, and who I'd prefer honestly) I would definitely welcome him on board. Realistically if someone is going to make it in from Awakening, the likely candiate is probably Chrom regardless of my opinion of him.

 

[Croph]

I'm just going to point this out: a character's strength/stats in their source games has little to do with getting into Smash. I don't think Sakurai is going to look at a request and say, "lol, that character isn't even the strongest in his game! Looks like I'll scratch that one off the list!" At least, I think that's a pretty shallow excuse. And besides, Smash is like an alternate universe. Here, even the crappiest characters (whether in their games or in Smash itself) can turn into the most iconic and fan favourite fighters.

Yeah, I'm neutral on Chrom. However, I prefer to keep an open mind and wait until I see what characters can do before making my final judgment.

 

[TheKingOfTown]

Overall, Roy is definitely one of the best FE6 characters in terms of usefulness. Top 10, at least. :3c

I thought Roy was considered one of the worst lords in the series. Either him or Leif.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I thought Roy was considered one of the worst lords in the series. Either him or Leif.

FE6 is filled with bad units, so even if Roy was one of the "worst" Lords, he still probably wouldn't be the "worst" unit in his game.

Chrono explained why he was useful better than I could. Something to do with what characters he supports.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Fire Emblem: Binding Blade essentially has the same game design as Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragons and Blade of Light. Many of the units are rather flimsy in terms of stats and stat growths, mainly to encourage a high difficulty. In other words, you cannot exactly rely on only one unit to plow through the game, you'll need pretty much everything you can get in order to survive.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Fire Emblem: Binding Blade essentially has the same game design as Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragons and Blade of Light. Many of the units are rather flimsy in terms of stats and stat growths, mainly to encourage a high difficulty. In other words, you cannot exactly rely on only one unit to plow through the game, you'll need pretty much everything you can get in order to survive.

Plus they give you, like, five bajillion of every kind of unit.

(JK. They just give you five bajillion Cavaliers and Paladins)

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Honestly Marth and Crom is the only Fire Emblem characters I really want.

 

[FlareHabanero]

They just give you five bajillion Cavaliers and Paladins

Intelligent Systems confirmed for bronies.

 

[•Col•]

I thought Roy was considered one of the worst lords in the series. Either him or Leif.

Covered pretty much in this post: http://smashboards.com/threads/you-...mblem-discussion.324264/page-26#post-15383711

Have fun learning. :3c

 

[Hong]

Honestly Marth and Crom is the only Fire Emblem characters I really want.

That's how I feel.

And Ike is my favourite lord.

That said, I am not too picky about who we get. I love FIre Emblem and, after a truly staple character is covered by Marth, I just want something fresh. Realistically, regardless of how I feel, Chrom is the most likely and I would be genuinely surprised to not see him in the next game.