Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[FalKoopa]

Being a female DOES NOT increase a character's chances at all. Brawl added only one female.

 

[jaytalks]

I'm not arguing likelihood necessarily. I'm just stating what I think Smash Bros is lacking. But if you go on the whole unique rule of Sakurai, then there's an easy argument to make. Every factor of a character goes into the decision making process, and being a female in a game whose previous iteration only had five females out of thirty five characters definitely make a character unique. Being a female protagonist in your first game makes you even more unique.

Although there are definite pressures within other media that will affect games soon, if not already. These pressures have emerged since Brawl. There's a reason why they announced Wii Fit Trainer along with Mega Man and the Villager. Under the logic that they only added one female character in Brawl, then they are already done.

 

[Jaedrik]

I'm not arguing likelihood necessarily.

Friend, some people are incapable of understanding this. I would much rather have Rukina as well.
I would much rather, than either of them, have Anna, though.

 

[jaytalks]

Friend, some people are incapable of understanding this. I would much rather have Rukina as well.
I would much rather, than either of them, have Anna, though.

Come to think of it, I actually would love Anna as long as did not take out Lucina. If it was Marth, Lucina, and Anna, that would be awesome. If there was no Lucina, I would support Marth, Chrom, and Anna as well. I think Anna would represent more than just Awakening, so you could have her and an Awakening character.

I think the irony is that if you look at that support icons of people who say this, there are plenty of characters who one could argue are not likely in this game. But we love talking about them because we love those characters, even if they only appeared in one game in the 80s or they aren't even playable in the games that they are in. That's what great about talking about Smash, arguing for a character at some level has never been about likelihood, it's always been about love.

 

[Deleted member]

You don't seem to have a sense of irony, either.

It's one thing to support unlikely characters.
It's another thing entirely to claim a character is more likely than another based on their genetalia.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I guess my mom is more unique then I am...

I even have one Kidney, Scoliosis, AND a huge F****ing beard. F*** this ****.

 

[jaytalks]

I guess my mom is more unique then I am...

I even have one Kidney, Scoliosis, AND a huge F****ing beard. F*** this ****.

You don't seem to have a sense of irony, either.

It's one thing to support unlikely characters.
It's another thing entirely to claim a character is more likely than another based on their genetalia.

I'm sure you have a nice beard Scoliosis Jones.

Well that's not really irony. Irony is a difference in expectations, from what it appears to be and reality. I guess you could say it's ironic because of what I'm saying and I don't get that it's unrelated to your earlier points.

I don't know why you're obsessed with genetalia, but when I elaborated, it wasn't solely because of her genetalia. She's a strong female protagonist who fights with swords, which makes her fairly unique in the world of Nintendo and in relation to previous characters. By virtue of being female she has a much different appearance than the other sword fighters. I'm using the fact that she is a female to point out one way that make her unique. Which is one of Sakurai's rules.

Additionally, having more females in the game overall would increase the likelihood of individuals buying the game, since they are more likely to have characters they identify with. There aren't that many strong female protagonists in Nintendo games, so Lucina is an ideal choice. In comparison to the most recent females, two are princesses, two of them are the same character, one is mannequin like fitness instructor and one is a pokemon. Having a sword fighting female would definitely be a nice change of pace.Sakurai also mentions balance as one of his criteria, and the gender imbalance is something that's really noticeable and that can be changed. Characters like Lucina would be a great start.

The other thing is I'm not solely commenting on likelihood when I make a statement regarding Lucina. Sometimes it's likelihood, sometimes it's personal preference, and sometimes it's what I think would make the series better.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess my mom is more unique then I am...

I even have one Kidney, Scoliosis, AND a huge F****ing beard. F*** this ****.

Wait, so you have Scoliosis in your username....because you HAVE Scoliosis?
My condolences, man...

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Look at the newbie thinking he knows how **** works.
Whether a character has a penis or a vagina doesn't make any sort of difference in terms of how likely they are to be included in the series.

This. In situations like these importance is what matters the most.

 

[Hong]

I am pretty impressed in the desperation people have delved into to not safely, and logically, assume Chrom will be in the game. Chrom will be in the game, and Ike will be gone. The most relevant and current Fire Emblem character always joins Marth. Yes, you can give Lucina a fighting style that is different from Marth, but if you look at what has been stated of Sm4sh as a whole, the character direction would have that fighting style likely attributed to another character of another franchise entirely. If we get more than two Fire Emblem representatives, it is probably going to be Marth, Chrom and someone who does not use swords. Masahiro Sakurai made it pretty clear that characters that can offer something unique is pretty important, and I would agree with him.

Though I will say it is entirely possible we can have Chrom paired up with someone as a united fighting force (be it Lucina or Robin), representing the mechanics from his source material. It does not have to be like Zelda/Sheik or Pokémon Trainer, who in my opinion never actually did anything fun with it. Being able to have the character jump in to attack or defend, if done right, can be a lot of fun in Smash Bros. If Masahiro Sakurai can execute it correctly, I would love to see it happen.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I am pretty impressed in the desperation people have delved into to not safely, and logically, assume Chrom will be in the game. Chrom will be in the game, and Ike will be gone. The most relevant and current Fire Emblem character always joins Marth. Yes, you can give Lucina a fighting style that is different from Marth, but if you look at what has been stated of Sm4sh as a whole, the character direction would have that fighting style likely attributed to another character of another franchise entirely. If we get more than two Fire Emblem representatives, it is probably going to be Marth, Chrom and someone who does not use swords. Masahiro Sakurai made it pretty clear that characters that can offer something unique is pretty important, and I would agree with him.

Though I will say it is entirely possible we can have Chrom paired up with someone as a united fighting force (be it Lucina or Robin), representing the mechanics from his source material. It does not have to be like Zelda/Sheik or Pokémon Trainer, who in my opinion never actually did anything fun with it. Being able to have the character jump in to attack or defend, if done right, can be a lot of fun in Smash Bros. If Masahiro Sakurai can execute it correctly, I would love to see it happen.

To be fair, two points of data (Melee + Brawl) is a really poor statistic. To be also fair, I completely agree that Chrom will replace Ike and that an additional rep would probably not be a sword wielder.

I don't want to see Chrom tag-teaming it a la Zelda/Sheik. As you say, it's not actually a very fun mechanic. I think it'd be hard to have characters aiding Chrom like you describe, though. I'd be curious to see him try it, but... it sounds like it'd look super bizarre. In FE it sort of represents a cohesive fighting force, while in Smash it'd look like some lazy dude is following Chrom around the battlefield and occasionally doing something out of nowhere.

 

[FlareHabanero]

My oh my, more overconfidence, this time people are under the fallacy impression that Chrom will replace Ike because bull****.

 

[jaytalks]

I am pretty impressed in the desperation people have delved into to not safely, and logically, assume Chrom will be in the game. Chrom will be in the game, and Ike will be gone. The most relevant and current Fire Emblem character always joins Marth. Yes, you can give Lucina a fighting style that is different from Marth, but if you look at what has been stated of Sm4sh as a whole, the character direction would have that fighting style likely attributed to another character of another franchise entirely. If we get more than two Fire Emblem representatives, it is probably going to be Marth, Chrom and someone who does not use swords. Masahiro Sakurai made it pretty clear that characters that can offer something unique is pretty important, and I would agree with him.

Though I will say it is entirely possible we can have Chrom paired up with someone as a united fighting force (be it Lucina or Robin), representing the mechanics from his source material. It does not have to be like Zelda/Sheik or Pokémon Trainer, who in my opinion never actually did anything fun with it. Being able to have the character jump in to attack or defend, if done right, can be a lot of fun in Smash Bros. If Masahiro Sakurai can execute it correctly, I would love to see it happen.

Like I said, it's not a given that Fire Emblem will have two characters. Fire Emblem has risen in popularity and prominence with its most recent game, and having another rep would reflect that. The only characters Sakurai has removed previous are character that were clones and characters he had a replacement moveset before, so it's not forgone conclusion Ike is gone as well. The only non-sword using lord is Ephraim, but due to the time since his game released he is less likely than other characters. He would be cool though. Micaiah was a protagonist and should make a wonderful addition. There's only been one prior instance of another generation replacing the prior one, so it's not a completely a sure thing. We've made up these rules about who gets cut and who doesn't based on only one instance really. Additionally, it was a clone character (whose game was never released outside of Japan) being removed and an original character taking up a spot on the roster.

Lucina already has a different fighting style than Marth. The Smash series has used an original character's games as a reference for their attacks. Both Marth and especially Ike show this. Lucina fights completely differently in Awakening than Marth, so she wouldn't be given a different style than Marth to be different, but to in order to represent her style of fighter in her game.

There are plenty of indications that Lucina is more popular than Chrom, although both are the most popular character of their respective generations. It's not really that big a deal to debate the merits between two protagonists in a game in a thread whose purpose is to do just that.

 

[kikaru]

As much as I support Chrom I do not see him replacing Ike... Marth, Ike, and Chrom can all coexist together.

^ If you sort through Shortie's polls I don't believe Lucina has ever passed Chrom once.

 

[Curious Villager]

My oh my, more overconfidence, this time people are under the fallacy impression that Chrom will replace Ike because bull****.

What? Really? Oh gosh, As much as I want to defend Chrom, that doesn't mean that he should replace Ike or something. Guess I'd better just get back to supporting Anna and Lyn as my Fire Emblem awesome's...

 

[Banjodorf]

Lately I've been supporting Anna alot. However I'm not going to change my opinion that I'd love to see Chrom in the game. (Alongside Marth and Ike. Never without Ike.)

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah I'm more than happy to see Chrom, but I wouldn't want to support him replacing Ike. Why can't they both be in together? :/

Oh well my top choices of new Fire Emblem reps will still remain as Anna and Lyn, despite how unlikely they may be...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Wait, so you have Scoliosis in your username....because you HAVE Scoliosis?
My condolences, man...

Funny story. Back when I was in High School, I had to wear a back brace. When this one kid found out, he and these other kids decided the nickname "Scoliosis Jones" was funny, and it reminded them of Osmosis Jones.

I took the nickname, I came to love it. When I played the EA NHL games, I named my Be a Pro player Scoliosis Jones. I played goalie. My stats were the best in the world for a few years straight (my save percentage was like .935 for awhile). I even have a Buffalo Sabres Jersey with Jones on the back

Yea...I actually laugh at myself most of the time. My Scoliosis is bad, but i'm not crippled. It's at a curvature of like 49 degrees. Any more than that and I probably would've needed surgery. I've had my fair share of medical issues throughout my life lol.

Anyway, on the topic of Chrom, I'd rather he not replace Ike. As much as I like Chrom, I don't want him replacing anyone.

Why replace one when you can have all three?

 

[Arcadenik]

Anyway, on the topic of Chrom, I'd rather he not replace Ike. As much as I like Chrom, I don't want him replacing anyone.

Why replace one when you can have all three?

Because Sakurai doesn't have time to put all three in! Why won't anyone think of the children Sakurai?!

 

[Banjodorf]

Because Sakurai doesn't have time to put all three in! Why won't anyone think of the children Sakurai?!

Yeah! He doesn't have the time and he's going to cut Mewtwo and Dr. Mario! Didn't you guys hear?

 

[Arcadenik]

Ain't nobody got time for that!

 

[jaytalks]

^ If you sort through Shortie's polls I don't believe Lucina has ever passed Chrom once.

I was referring to her popularity as outlined earlier in the thread, and most importantly among Fire Emblem Awakening polls. She appears on the cover of both the artbook and soundtrack. So they put her on the cover alone on things they wanted to sell. The North American Poll had "Marth" first, but some would guess that's because they thought it was Marth. But there was no Lucina selection since it was spoiler free. One Japanese Poll separates them by generation, and another Chrom technically in first with 184 votes, but "Marth" has 159 votes and Lucina has 127 votes. If you combing together, Lucina has more votes. You can argue people were confused but that's just the raw data. It's hard to gauge Lucina's popularity at times because the secretive nature of the character.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As far as Lucina goes, I really don't see her getting in. She is far too similar to Marth, and she still was not the main character/leader of the game.

I'd go over my argument for this statement again, but i'm tired and don't feel like it.

 

[Banjodorf]

Lucina wasn't even a main character in the game. Sure, she had the role in theory given her importance, but gameplay wise, she was as disposable as Lissa or Tharja. Something I found really strange. Chrom and Robin on the other hand...

 

[jaytalks]

Lucina wasn't even a main character in the game. Sure, she had the role in theory given her importance, but gameplay wise, she was as disposable as Lissa or Tharja. Something I found really strange. Chrom and Robin on the other hand...

I outlined before my argument for Lucina, her differences from Marth (she really isn't as similar as people think), and the fact that she is a main character and one of the protagonists in the game. Similar to Lyn, she is one of three main characters in the game. You aren't forced to pick her because she comes in at a lower level. She is a step of above Tharja and Lissa in gameplay because she has key conversations with bosses and the end game boss.

However, as I said before, I feel Chrom is more likely, and would welcome a scenario in which you could play as a pairing of the two, with Chrom in the lead.

If Chrom ended up being in the game I would still want this as his Final Smash, regardless of whether or not he is paired with Lucina as a character.:
Duel Awakening
Lucina is warped next to Chrom. Chrom attacks forward, hitting any in front, while Lucina attacks anyone behind. After a few strikes (in the same manner as a brave sword) , they switch, doing the same to anyone in front on the other side. Finally, they hit one blue flamed Aether on their respective sides to knock any opponents out of sight.

 

[Banjodorf]

I've gotta say, that's a pretty neat Final Smash. I really want that for Chrom.

 

[jaytalks]

I've gotta say, that's a pretty neat Final Smash. I really want that for Chrom.

It's the one I posted in the Lucina thread. I just switched around the names. You could even make it spoiler free and have Lucina be disguised as Marth (if she wasn't a pairing of course).

 

[TheTuninator]

Nah, Lucina is definitely a main character of FE:A. That said, Chrom is more important than her.

I've gotta say, that's a pretty neat Final Smash. I really want that for Chrom.

I'd quite like to see her appear in Chrom's Final Smash, should he get in. Having Lucina as his FS would be a good way to draw upon the "Pair Up" mechanic in order to create a very neat move.

 

[Deleted member]

Funny story. Back when I was in High School, I had to wear a back brace. When this one kid found out, he and these other kids decided the nickname "Scoliosis Jones" was funny, and it reminded them of Osmosis Jones.

I took the nickname, I came to love it. When I played the EA NHL games, I named my Be a Pro player Scoliosis Jones. I played goalie. My stats were the best in the world for a few years straight (my save percentage was like .935 for awhile). I even have a Buffalo Sabres Jersey with Jones on the back

Yea...I actually laugh at myself most of the time. My Scoliosis is bad, but i'm not crippled. It's at a curvature of like 49 degrees. Any more than that and I probably would've needed surgery. I've had my fair share of medical issues throughout my life lol.

Anyway, on the topic of Chrom, I'd rather he not replace Ike. As much as I like Chrom, I don't want him replacing anyone.

Why replace one when you can have all three?

Brave, brave soul.

...but at least it isn't Poliosis.
By which I mean the Jeff Dunham version of Polio + Scoliosis, not the actual hair color disorder by the same name.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Sorry that I haven't put any work into making this thread, had stuff going on plus my relatives were in town. I still don't know when I will get to it, but I will try to at some point. Sorry for the wait

 

[Noler_Mass]

You mean polygons, there aren't any pixels.

I know this was a while ago, some tv's show everything through pixels. The game is designed and modeled with polygons and stuff, but what the television actually shows is pixels (I think)

Also it seems like some decent debate is going on, I'll check it out tonite and speak my words of wisdom to silence the foolish children of wrongness.

Also my opinion is this: in fire emblem Ike>chrom, but in smash bros Chrom>Ike simply because I want newcomers more than returning characters, but I still would want Ike more than anyone else unless by some miracle we could get the black knight or ephraim. Assuming Chrom will be in the game is not stupid, but assuming that he will replace Ike, while possible, is pretty stupid.

Funny story. Back when I was in High School, I had to wear a back brace. When this one kid found out, he and these other kids decided the nickname "Scoliosis Jones" was funny, and it reminded them of Osmosis Jones.

I took the nickname, I came to love it. When I played the EA NHL games, I named my Be a Pro player Scoliosis Jones. I played goalie. My stats were the best in the world for a few years straight (my save percentage was like .935 for awhile). I even have a Buffalo Sabres Jersey with Jones on the back

Yea...I actually laugh at myself most of the time. My Scoliosis is bad, but i'm not crippled. It's at a curvature of like 49 degrees. Any more than that and I probably would've needed surgery. I've had my fair share of medical issues throughout my life lol.

Anyway, on the topic of Chrom, I'd rather he not replace Ike. As much as I like Chrom, I don't want him replacing anyone.

Why replace one when you can have all three?

Dude that sucks you definetly have my feels, but seriously the only way I can picture you is as booker from bioshock. Like whenever I see a picture of booker I say hey look it's scoliosis jones! Oh wait...

 

[DMurr]

Lucina wasn't even a main character in the game. Sure, she had the role in theory given her importance, but gameplay wise, she was as disposable as Lissa or Tharja. Something I found really strange. Chrom and Robin on the other hand...

Actually, a large portion of the game only required Chrom. You weren't required to bring Robin to all of the levels, but you can't deny his importance in the story.

Lucina is on the box-art, she was apparently one of the first characters designed for Awakening, and you could argue that the entire game is focused on the events that she creates/causes.. gameplay-wise, I guess you could argue Chrom is really the only important character. Lyn actually has a smaller roll in her game than Lucina has in hers, but I don't think you could argue that she wasn't a main character, and that didn't stop her from being chosen as an AT in Brawl.

On kind of a difference note, it's kind of hard for me to see how people could argue Chrom would get in over Lucina because of the fact Lucina looks too much like Marth. I mean.. Chrom is a blue-haired swordsman who wears blue clothing. Stereotypical Fire Emblem lord, right? There's not all that many visual differences here between all four characters (Marth, Ike, Chrom and Lucina). That being said, I still think we're more likely to see Chrom than anyone else from Awakening because he's the most recognizable character... but I would lol if we somehow ended up with a non-lord character like Tharja, Henry or Anna because of their popularity among the FE fans.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Actually, a large portion of the game only required Chrom. You weren't required to bring Robin to all of the levels, but you can't deny his importance in the story.

I think Banjodorf was referring to the fact that chrom and robin are not allowed to die. For some people, that's what it means to be a lord/main character.

 

[Banjodorf]

I think Banjodorf was referring to the fact that chrom and robin are not allowed to die. For some people, that's what it means to be a lord/main character.

Yep! That's the deciding factor to me. All three lords in FE7 were not allowed to die, whereas it was just Chrom and Robin in Awakening. I know that was probably to make it less irritating (I have yet to meet a single person who wasn't irritated by FE7's systems half the time) but it still seems important. I do recognize her story importance, and expect her to show up in some form, though.

 

[jaytalks]

Yep! That's the deciding factor to me. All three lords in FE7 were not allowed to die, whereas it was just Chrom and Robin in Awakening. I know that was probably to make it less irritating (I have yet to meet a single person who wasn't irritated by FE7's systems half the time) but it still seems important. I do recognize her story importance, and expect her to show up in some form, though.

I personally believe that are two reasons why this is, it's the same reasons you are not forced to use her: 1) You receive her at a lower level and at the middle of the game, it would be unfair to be force to use her and then have her die. 2) All prospective mothers are able to be killed and they simply retreat from the battle aside from the avatar, to avoid time paradoxes. She still technically doesn't die, so it serves the same purpose as the previous unable to let characters die rule. In a game where they are trying to make it as accessible as possible, they streamlined it and made it easy as possible.
What it means to be a lord is that your default class is as a lord. A lord means you're a main character in the game. I don't want to fault Lucina because Intelligent Systems wanted to give everyone more options.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ike has no reasons to get replaced by Chrom damn it.

 

[Hong]

It depends how large the roster is going to be.

Of course Chrom and Ike can be mapped out to play completely differently, but if we are only going to total a few more characters, and we do not end up having more than two Fire Emblem characters, I can bet my gold that a more relevant character will take his seat. Even if the roster breaks 40 characters and we get another Fire Emblem character, I am inclined to believe it will be Marth, Chrom and someone completely different. Ike certainly has merit in the series. The hero of blue flames, main character in two titles, and the strongest hero of the seven realms.

Unfortunately, he is just not really as relevant anymore. Within fans of Fire Emblem, he is adored, but if we had to pick and choose, many of us rather see Chrom or Lucina. Sure he has some popularity with people who know about him through Smash Bros, but like Roy, there is not really any credibility in that. If people unfamiliar with Chrom get to see him, they will grow to like him just like his predecessors, and be whining to keep him in the game when SSB5 comes around a decade down the road. Since we have the most note-worthy character of the series, Marth, bound to return, he is going to enter the fray supported with the latest face of Fire Emblem, as it has always been.

Why not have Marth, Ike and Chrom/Lucina? Because since the very beginning of Sm4sh's development, Sakurai has emphasized the importance of character diversity. Everyone has to offer something unique, distinguished, and definitive in the roster. He just recently mentioned in two interviews how he wants to avoid too much overlap between characters. Unless the three characters can all offer something completely different, and only they can offer this unique fighting style and mechanics, and not anyone else from Nintendo (or potentially Namco, if we get another third-party character) can do this, then I have a hard time believe we will see a Fire Emblem roster like this.

I love Ike. Path of Radiance is without a doubt my favourite entry in the series, and Ike my favourite of the lords, but we have got to be realistic here. No one can predict the future and make 100% correct assumptions, but if you don't want to be disappointed I can tell you that you should not expect the return of Ike as a playable character. Not with limited development time. Not with hundreds of other great Nintendo characters to choose from. Not with a tight character count. As someone who has been with the series since the third entry (before it gained wind with a foreign audience), and as someone who loves Ike with all my heart, I will gladly accept Chrom or Lucina as a more relevant representative of the series.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

*reads story*

...

Scoliosis...

You showed a lot of strength and courage there dude.

Proud of you!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@ Lunadis I don't know that I agree with you entirely. Brawl was planned to have 3 FE characters, two of which were copy and paste.

Ike and Marth are popular lords, and I don't see either of them losing said popularity any time soon. There is literally nothing pointing towards exclusion of Ike, besides the idea of time issues. But considering he is unique to the roster as it is, I think we'll see him.

I DO NOT want Chrom to replace Ike. I would rather have all three, as there could definitely be diversity among them. Chrom uses Aether differently from Ike anyway, so that right there tells us there are things that they could have to differentiate themselves from one another.

I have hope. I know Sakurai has his quotes or whatever, but i'm sure he'll find a way to have it work. I mean really, there is only so much you can do with swordsmen, and Fire Emblem needs a 3rd rep. 3 blue haired swordsmen isn't a bad representation either.

@Swampy, thanks man. Honestly I laugh at my Scoliosis now. However back braces are pretty bad at first.

Also, I feel like I can't ever change my avatar based on the fact that everyone correlates Booker Dewitt and Scoliosis Jones now lol

 

[FlareHabanero]

and Fire Emblem needs a 3rd rep.

Stop using that ****ing "need" word, it makes you look like an idiot.