Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[Diddy Kong]

Now you confirmed it yourself, your grumpiness isn't a healty trait.

 

[Frostwraith]

get it with project x zone
your life will go away

Already played both FE:A and PXZ demos...

One reason I haven't been actively going to the game store is because I have exams this month... the temptation is just strong!

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Already played both FE:A and PXZ demos...

One reason I haven't been actively going to the game store is because I have exams this month... the temptation is just strong!

Once you're done be prepared to have your life go away

I'm probably gonna do at least the highest mode I can on FE: Awakening soon without losing partners, so that'll suck more of my life. PXZ is doomed to blow at least 50 hours from me, if not 100.

 

[Curious Villager]

Now you confirmed it yourself, your grumpiness isn't a healty trait.

Sounds to me that Habanero was having a field day with whatever I said (At least assuming you were talking about him). Guess I might as well leave his reply be in order to spare myself (and everyone else) a headache knowing how much he hates Chrom and it's likely the same old tired and done "He's bland"and "Blue hair" arguments anyway and I don't want to get into huge pointless arguments over this since it would just go into never ending circles knowing how Fire Emblem discussions go around here. Plus I don't want to sound anti-Roy because then I will be lowering myself to the same level as the anti-Chrom people. And I've noticed myself sounding a little anti-Roy when I really don't mind him either.

So I might as well stop.

Overall. Either Chrom and/or Roy happens. I'm fine with either, really. Fire Emblem characters in general don't really interest me anymore since the only ones who would actually excite me are Anna and Lyn anyway and since their chances are fairly low. I just don't care what they do with the Fire Emblem cast, honestly. The only reason I'm trying to defend Chrom a little is because I foresee him becoming the Toon Link and Wolf of smash 4. Where he gets so much undeserved hate to the point where anyone who actually likes him becomes a silent supporter knowing that anytime they try and support him, they get shot down by the Roy/Lyn/Lucina/whatever brigade for reasons that he/she is only "expecting" him but not "wanting" him etc.

As for those who haven't played the game yet, I highly recommend you do. Especially if you've never played a Fire Emblem game before or are just looking for a new 3DS game to play. The game was very enjoyable and great fun to play. At least to me it was.

 

[kikaru]

Purchased a 3DS XL just so I could play this game. Tried to price-match it at Wal-Mart but they're real hardasses when it comes to that. Went to a local Hastings and by some divine miracle they had one copy of the Pikachu XL. Needless to say that made my Fire Emblem experience just that much better.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

From my observation, it seems to me that without Chrom, Robin and Lucina have little to no chance.

Why? Well, let's think about it. Has a side character EVER made it into Smash without the main protagonist of the game? No. Putting Lucina in without Chrom would be like putting Paper Luigi in without Paper Mario (or even Luigi without Mario). It just wouldn't make sense.

Another point to be made. If Chrom having blue hair and a sword is such an issue, why is Lucina better? Because she is a girl? That is a terrible reason. I have friends who would look at her and ask me if she was just a female version of Marth. Seriously. I have my own doubts on Robin, as a customizable character would be difficult to make a moveset for imo.

One last thing that isn't really relevant, but i'm going to mention it. To start, the only FE game i've played is Awakening, but this is something I've noticed.

When I saw so many complaints about so many "blue haired swordsmen" I decided to take a look at how many different lords there were. Based off of Golden's Fire Emblem Speculation chart...

1) Marth, Ike, Chrom, Eirika, Lucina, Hector, Sigurd, Ephraim and Seliph all have blue hair. To my knowledge, at least 6 of those 9 use swords.
2) Alm and Lyn have green hair and use swords.
3) Roy, Leif, and Eliwood have red hair and use swords. I'm not sure on Celica besides her red hair.
4) Micaiah is the only white haired lord and uses magic.

Time to do some math.

At least 11 of these listed lords use swords, 9 of them have blue hair. One uses an ax, one uses a lance, at least one uses magic. (again, idk about Celica)

So when someone says that three blue haired swordsmen and one red haired swordsmen doesn't rep Fire Emblem well, I would tend to disagree. About 3/4 of the lords have blue hair, and even more of them use swords.

Believe me, I understand that people want diversity. But saying it should be different because of different weapons is a stretch if you ask me.

/rant

 

[---]

"He's bland"and "Blue hair" arguments

Blue hair and being a sword wielder isn't Chrom's problem with getting into Smash, not that he's not a bland character or anything (FE13's story/character development sucked!). The thing is he doesn't have much to go off of.

Without talking up Marth/Roy/Ike, in order to fit in with the mass customization features of FE13, the uniqueness of most attack animations were reduced to basic slashes similar to Marth's attack animations in Smash (his version of Aether is a dash attack followed by a basic slash). Chrom himself literally also wields the same weapon as Marth himself. It's really not hard to get bored when talking moveset potential with Chrom.

That said, Chrom still could turn out unique like his already given Final Smash. Sakurai could come up with some crazy new attack animations not yet used for a sword fighter in Smash. Could just come up with a fitting moveset out of nowhere like giving Chrom a built-in Levin Sword or doing something with a Lance. Heck Sakurai could just call it a day and make him a Marth semi-clone like Falco & Wolf.

There's also the expected rather than popular or comparing him to his only competition, but that can be saved for when someone wants to into the real ugly stuff of FE talk.

/rant

Technically this is common sense, but still someone give this man a pat on the back and a thumbs up.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah anything is possible with Chrom. Either he'd be a clone as people seem to foresee or he'd be unique. Or Sakurai may surprise us and do something pretty interesting with Chrom's moveset, such as giving him a Lance instead or something, which we haven't got a character yet who uses one. (assuming if he was playable of course)

I haven't played the other Fire Emblem games so I don't know how the characters compare in those games, but I personally enjoyed the story and characters in Awakening. But yeah, taste differs.

 

[Shotguner159]

From my observation, it seems to me that without Chrom, Robin and Lucina have little to no chance.

Why? Well, let's think about it. Has a side character EVER made it into Smash without the main protagonist of the game? No. Putting Lucina in without Chrom would be like putting Paper Luigi in without Paper Mario (or even Luigi without Mario). It just wouldn't make sense.

Lucina's just as much a main character of Awakening as Chrom is, being as important to the plot as he is, if not more so.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sounds to me that Habanero was having a field day with whatever I said (At least assuming you were talking about him). Guess I might as well leave his reply be in order to spare myself (and everyone else) a headache knowing how much he hates Chrom and it's likely the same old tired and done "He's bland"and "Blue hair" arguments anyway

I don't mind Chrom as a Lord, but I do mind Chrom as a newcomer. No matter how much you want to bury your head in the sand, Chrom is not going to lead to positive reception regardless of how he's included on the roster.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sounds to me that Habanero was having a field day with whatever I said (At least assuming you were talking about him). Guess I might as well leave his reply be in order to spare myself (and everyone else) a headache knowing how much he hates Chrom and it's likely the same old tired and done "He's bland"and "Blue hair" arguments anyway and I don't want to get into huge pointless arguments over this since it would just go into never ending circles knowing how Fire Emblem discussions go around here. Plus I don't want to sound anti-Roy because then I will be lowering myself to the same level as the anti-Chrom people. And I've noticed myself sounding a little anti-Roy when I really don't mind him either.

So I might as well stop.

Overall. Either Chrom and/or Roy happens. I'm fine with either, really. Fire Emblem characters in general don't really interest me anymore since the only ones who would actually excite me are Anna and Lyn anyway and since their chances are fairly low. I just don't care what they do with the Fire Emblem cast, honestly. The only reason I'm trying to defend Chrom a little is because I foresee him becoming the Toon Link and Wolf of smash 4. Where he gets so much undeserved hate to the point where anyone who actually likes him becomes a silent supporter knowing that anytime they try and support him, they get shot down by the Roy/Lyn/Lucina/whatever brigade for reasons that he/she is only "expecting" him but not "wanting" him etc.

As for those who haven't played the game yet, I highly recommend you do. Especially if you've never played a Fire Emblem game before or are just looking for a new 3DS game to play. The game was very enjoyable and great fun to play. At least to me it was.

Secretly Habanero just hates Chrom for him wanting another blue haired swordsman in more than him.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't mind Chrom as a Lord, but I do mind Chrom as a newcomer. No matter how much you want to bury your head in the sand, Chrom is not going to lead to positive reception regardless of how he's included on the roster.

Meh, even if he'd get poor reception if he was included, he'd likely get accepted later on as people get used to him in smash. We've seen this before with Brawl's roster when people where complaining about the likes of R.O.B. and Lucario but later on people came to accept them and some even really liking them, I think the same thing happened with Melee's roster according to some people here.

Even if people were to hate a character for being in, they would sooner or later end up getting used to them being there and getting over it and maybe even end up liking them. I mean I used to really hate the idea of Snake being in Brawl back in the Brawl day's but as time went on I slowly started to be cool with him and then liking him a little and now he's one of my favourite characters in Brawl.

Of course this doesn't apply to all characters though such as Pichu and all since he's still very disliked even after many years. But I'm fairly certain that Chrom wouldn't be one of them though.

But oh well, I guess we might as well agree to disagree.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Lucina's just as much a main character of Awakening as Chrom is, being as important to the plot as he is, if not more so.

I disagree. She shows up halfway through the story, and if you aren't careful, she can die in a later mission and no longer have relevance to the story if I remember correctly.

If you want to discuss importance to the plot, then i'm surprised Link got in over Zelda in the first Smash Bros. She played a huge part in OoT so she should've got in over Link right?

Now of course that sounds ridiculous. Because at the end of the day, she wasn't the main protagonist. Chrom was. HE is the leader of the shepards. HE is the next exalt. HE is the lord they use to advertise the game.

Chrom will get in if an Awakening rep is chosen. Lucina or Robin are second banana to this unfortunately, just like Luigi is to Mario. I like Lucina as a character, but those are the facts.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

He's The Lord everybody knows his name. At least he wasn't mistakened for Marth unlike Lucy.

 

[Noler_Mass]

He's The Lord everybody knows his name. At least he wasn't mistakened for Marth unlike Lucy.

If everybody wants Lucina just give Marth a mask as an alternate costume. They could even fit that into the stories. Wouldn't that piss Lucina fanboys off if they see Marth with a mask and than it actually ends up being real Marth instead of Lucina

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Thanks for all fellas here for bringing finally some good points about Chrom: I've now fallen sorta in the silent supporter-status towards him due getting sick about Chrom getting all sorts of flak. I believe he'd be done well despite HOW much he seems "unoriginal" or "bland" to people, really.

I think Awakening fell apart after Chrom's arc, anyway. But yeah. (-´A´-);

 

[Shotguner159]

I disagree. She shows up halfway through the story, and if you aren't careful, she can die in a later mission and no longer have relevance to the story if I remember correctly.

She shows up in disguise in Chapter 1. There's only the Premonition and the Prologue before that. And she can't die, she just retreats, and still shows up in cutscenes and cinematics.

Because at the end of the day, she wasn't the main protagonist. Chrom was. HE is the leader of the shepards. HE is the next exalt. HE is the lord they use to advertise the game.

Without Lucina going back in time, the war with Plegia went on longer, Chrom and Basillio died and Robin became Grima, who then went on to slaughter almost the entire world. Lucina matters just as much to the plot as Chrom does, making her just as much a main character, at least in my opinion.

 

[Noler_Mass]

She shows up in disguise in Chapter 1. There's only the Premonition and the Prologue before that. And she can't die, she just retreats, and still shows up in cutscenes and cinematics.


Without Lucina going back in time, the war with Plegia went on longer, Chrom and Basillio died and Robin became Grima, who then went on to slaughter almost the entire world. Lucina matters just as much to the plot as Chrom does, making her just as much a main character, at least in my opinion.

Your name is shotguner. It should be shotgunner with two n's. this is really bothering me. Lucina isn't the main character. She's important but she isn't the main character. Chrom is the character you are forced to take into every battle not Lucina.

 

[kikaru]

She shows up in disguise in Chapter 1. There's only the Premonition and the Prologue before that. And she can't die, she just retreats, and still shows up in cutscenes and cinematics.


Without Lucina going back in time, the war with Plegia went on longer, Chrom and Basillio died and Robin became Grima, who then went on to slaughter almost the entire world. Lucina matters just as much to the plot as Chrom does, making her just as much a main character, at least in my opinion.

But without Chrom Lucina can't exist

 

[Diddy Kong]

I disagree. She shows up halfway through the story, and if you aren't careful, she can die in a later mission and no longer have relevance to the story if I remember correctly.

If you want to discuss importance to the plot, then i'm surprised Link got in over Zelda in the first Smash Bros. She played a huge part in OoT so she should've got in over Link right?

Now of course that sounds ridiculous. Because at the end of the day, she wasn't the main protagonist. Chrom was. HE is the leader of the shepards. HE is the next exalt. HE is the lord they use to advertise the game.

Chrom will get in if an Awakening rep is chosen. Lucina or Robin are second banana to this unfortunately, just like Luigi is to Mario. I like Lucina as a character, but those are the facts.

Truth.

 

[Shotguner159]

Your name is shotguner. It should be shotgunner with two n's. this is really bothering me.

The single n is deliberate.

Lucina isn't the main character. She's important but she isn't the main character. Chrom is the character you are forced to take into every battle not Lucina.

I'm not forced to take Elincia into every chapter she's playable in FE9 either, but she's still a main character. I fail to see how Lucina's situation is any different.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The single n is deliberate.


I'm not forced to take Elincia into every chapter she's playable in FE9 either, but she's still a main character. I fail to see how Lucina's situation is any different.

This is the difference. There can be several "main" characters, but there is ONE main protagonist.

 

[Noler_Mass]

The single n is deliberate.


I'm not forced to take Elincia into every chapter she's playable in FE9 either, but she's still a main character. I fail to see how Lucina's situation is any different.

So elincia would be in smash over Ike is what you are saying? Hell no. Same goes for Lucina. IDC if the single n is deliberate, it still bothers me.

 

[Shotguner159]

This is the difference. There can be several "main" characters, but there is ONE main protagonist.

Chrom doesn't quite fulfill the criteria for the sole main protagonist either, what with the Avatar being just as plot important in the last part of the game as Chrom was in the first part, and when in Valm, Chrom decreases sharply in terms of plot importance, and doesn't pick it up again until the return to Ylisse, but not to as important as he was during the war with Plegia, whereas the effects caused by Lucina's time travel always matter. I tend to think of FE:A having a triumvirate of main characters, since none of them can claim that they constantly have have more plot importance. However, I am considering that I may be slightly biased with regards to this, and will concede that my opinion on this matter is in the minority, and as Chrom is seen as the main character of the main characters by the majority of people, it makes him as such.

So elincia would be in smash over Ike is what you are saying? Hell no. Same goes for Lucina. IDC if the single n is deliberate, it still bothers me.

No, because Elincia didn't and still doesn't have the popularity Ike has, whereas Lucina is just as popular as Chrom, at least with regards to Fire Emblem. And I don't see why my username bothering you should matter, when the single n is like that for a reason, and isn't a spelling mistake I should correct.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I think you are missing the part where he is forced to be brought into every battle making him the main protagonist. Lots of times in games the main protagonist isn't the main story element, but he's just the one who is always there to save the day. You need supporting characters that are important to the plot to keep the story going, but this doesn't make them the main character.

 

[Shotguner159]

Lots of times in games the main protagonist isn't the main story element, but he's just the one who is always there to save the day.

Chrom's hardly ever the guy who saves the day though. In fact, the only time I can think of him doing so is when he stops Lucina from killing the Avatar, and if Lucina and the Avatar are related in some manner, be it maritally or maternally, he doesn't do it then either, though that's admittedly from the the top of my head as I do not currently have FE:A with me. The Avatar saves the day through their strategies more than Chrom does, and Lucina saves Lissa in Chapter 1, prevents Chrom from getting wounded and Emmeryn from getting captured in Chapter 6, saves Chrom again in Chapter 13 and enables the Avatar's gemstone switch by preventing Basilio's death, though again, I'm biased in this situation, and there's probably times he saved the day that I can't remember.

 

[Noler_Mass]

But you aren't forced to bring Lucina into every battle and you are forced to bring Chrom into every battle. Therefore he is the main protagonist. It's really as simple as that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Also, Chrom is pretty much the guy who does most of the talking right?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The fact of the matter is, that Chrom is the lord the game is advertised with. If they put another character over him, fans who don't know Fire Emblem well will ask, "Who is that?". He has to be in every battle. He is the leader of all of the other units in the game. He is the first person to be introduced in the end credits, which can't be used to back up either of the other two, as several other characters are brought in before them.

Robin is a main character because of the ultimate role he/she plays. Robin is YOU, THE PLAYER. Of course they would be a main character. That doesn't mean they are the main character however.

Lucina is pretty much there. She is important to the plot, there are no arguments to be made there. But the most important? Absolutely not. Really, the plot could have gone on the same without Lucina's story arc. They could have completely negated her inclusion, and just had Chrom lead everyone against Grima. All Lucina does is come and warn her father about his eventual fate. Beyond that, she doesn't play too major of a role. She's just another unit.

Chrom will get in before Lucina or Robin because he is the main character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He's also the posterboy.

 

[FalKoopa]

So, is there infighting between the Chrom and Lucina supporters?

 

[Noler_Mass]

So, is there infighting between the Chrom and Lucina supporters?

Actually there is only one Lucina supporter here, and we are completely tearing apart his argument, just to fill you in.

 

[Shotguner159]

The fact of the matter is, that Chrom is the lord the game is advertised with.

Masked Marth was used to advertise the game too, and it's not like it's hard to figure out who Masked Marth is.

He is the first person to be introduced in the end credits, which can't be used to back up either of the other two, as several other characters are brought in before them.

No, but the Avatar is the LAST person in the credits, the same as Ike is in Radiant Dawn, where Micaiah's the first the the credits.

Lucina is pretty much there. She is important to the plot, there are no arguments to be made there. But the most important? Absolutely not. Really, the plot could have gone on the same without Lucina's story arc. They could have completely negated her inclusion, and just had Chrom lead everyone against Grima. All Lucina does is come and warn her father about his eventual fate. Beyond that, she doesn't play too major of a role. She's just another unit.

I could just as easily say the same about Chrom, seeing as he doesn't do anything that can't be replicated by someone else, and removing Chrom necessitates the least amount of rewrites to the plot. Removing the Avatar is impossible. Removing Lucina requires rewrites as to how Grima can be killed, since present Grima is invulnerable, while future Grima isn't, and future Grima only went back because Lucina went back, how Basilio survived and how the Avatar doesn't kill Chrom, since she saved Basillio, and he's the one who switched the gemstones which weakend Validar's control of the Avatar. Plus, if Lucina didn't go back, the Avatar would still have all of their memories, which would also change the plot of the game. Removing Chrom merely necessitates rewriting who leads the army and who Lucina's father is, because there's really nothing else that he does, unless I'm forgetting something.

Chrom will get in before Lucina or Robin because he is the main character.

I'm not advocating Lucina for Smash, I'm advocating against Chrom being called the biggest Main Character, since he impacts on the plot the least out of him, Lucina and the Avatar.

 

[Diddy Kong]

In Chrom's defence, I don't think Ike's influence was as big as Micaiah's either in Radiant Dawn. Well, at least till Part 4. Ike is still the main character of that game though. Hardly nobody questions that.

Ike >>> Chrom though

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Masked Marth was used to advertise the game too, and it's not like it's hard to figure out who Masked Marth is.


No, but the Avatar is the LAST person in the credits, the same as Ike is in Radiant Dawn, where Micaiah's the first the the credits.


I could just as easily say the same about Chrom, seeing as he doesn't do anything that can't be replicated by someone else, and removing Chrom necessitates the least amount of rewrites to the plot. Removing the Avatar is impossible. Removing Lucina requires rewrites as to how Grima can be killed, since present Grima is invulnerable, while future Grima isn't, and future Grima only went back because Lucina went back, how Basilio survived and how the Avatar doesn't kill Chrom, since she saved Basillio, and he's the one who switched the gemstones which weakend Validar's control of the Avatar. Plus, if Lucina didn't go back, the Avatar would still have all of their memories, which would also change the plot of the game. Removing Chrom merely necessitates rewriting who leads the army and who Lucina's father is, because there's really nothing else that he does, unless I'm forgetting something.


I'm not advocating Lucina for Smash, I'm advocating against Chrom being called the biggest Main Character, since he impacts on the plot the least out of him, Lucina and the Avatar.

Literally all they would have had to do was have a chapter or something where Grima is resurrected, and they learn they need the exalted Falchion. That is literally it. If Lucina wasn't included in the first place, then none of the time travel stuff would've been needed either. They could have introduced the villain, introduced a way to defeat said villain, and then the defeat of the villain. Literally all that was needed.

Just think of Awakening without any of the time travel. It is literally the same story, just without Lucina.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Is this guy really still debating this? For the last time, Chrom is the one you have to take into every battle, not Lucina. No matter what this makes him the main character. He is the leader of your team, it doesn't matter how much everyone else does or what their place in the credits is, Chrom is the leader of your team and is therefore the main protagonist. I'm starting to think you don't even know what protagonist even means...

 

[Deleted member]

Seems funny that it's wrong to support Lucina because Chrom is the "main" character, while it's a-ok to support Lyn despite Eliwood being the "main" character of her game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Seems funny that it's wrong to support Lucina because Chrom is the "main" character, while it's a-ok to support Lyn despite Eliwood being the "main" character of her game.

Difference being that Lyn is an actual Lord with consequences (game over) when she gets killed while Lucina is a Lord mostly in a name only.


Though really, is it wrong to support Chrom either?

 

[FalKoopa]

Seems funny that it's wrong to support Lucina because Chrom is the "main" character, while it's a-ok to support Lyn despite Eliwood being the "main" character of her game.

Yet for some unfathomable reason, Lyn was the only one among them to get a DLC redesign. Perhaps she is a main character from Intelligent Systems' point of view.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Seems funny that it's wrong to support Lucina because Chrom is the "main" character, while it's a-ok to support Lyn despite Eliwood being the "main" character of her game.

The argument isn't whether it is okay to support Lucina or not. It's just who the main character of the game is.