Anyone else still having trouble with Snake?

[zCasanova]

Don't point me to the simple question, simple answer thread. Seeing as how the last 3-4 pages of the Snake match-up discussion thread was off topic and irrelevant, I feel like having a new thread on the topic shouldn't cause anyone any harm.

What's the best kill-move to use against him? Fsmash is silly and easily punishable, dsmash has too much lag, and he usually has to live to a stupid percent for a ds to kill him from anywhere but the edge of the stage. I often find that by the time I've gotten him to his last stock, I'm on mine as well, but with 50+ percent on me.

How should I react when he recovers high? All the good Snakes I play generally stick to this recovery method: to protect themselves from punishment, after up-b'ing over the stage, they drop c4 between them and me, allowing them to touch ground again. If I jump to juggle, I reach the falling c4 before I do him. If I rush in, I have to make it under/through the c4, which is really dangerous as a fresh blast has tons of kill power/knockback. If I wait, then he still has the c4 and he's also on the ground again, placing him in a better position than before.

Best method of approach when he's camping? Two grenades, a c4, sometimes a claymore and falling nikita missles--a lot to deal with when trying to score a hit.

What to do when I do make it into close range with Snake? What are the best options? His f-tilt, when shielded, pushes me far enough away so that the only thing I punish him with during the after lag is a db, which generally doesn't kill Snake, allowing him to live to higher percents and giving him more time to beat up on me, or if it connects, recover high once again. When do I shield his jab combo? I've seen this done on the third hit.

I remember reading that NEO beats Snakes by capitalizing on their weak spots and punishing accordingly. What are these and how do I take advantage of them?

Basically, any tips/tricks/advice are welcome. I'm at my wit's end--am I just looking at this match-up in the wrong way? I only have trouble with these players when they use Snake, never another one of their mains.

Oddly enough, while I was at a tournament over the weekend, I heard everyone talking about how this match-up is shifting in Marth's favor. Please enlighten me.

 

[Dan_Fumaster]

Just as your attacks are easily punishable, Snakes' can be as well. His range is unfortunately good enough to interrupt Fairs. Making yourself unpredictable (...sounds so obvious, sorry) can make you fair better in most cases (pardon the pun).

I find myself easily killing the aggressive Snake players and having immense difficulty with the conservative ones. The better they can use their stupid explosives, the more annoying the battle becomes. Just be extremely careful. Catching grenades...well. If you want to spend time practicing that, go for it. Missiles aren't that much of a problem, just when he anticipates your dodge and punishes you. Remember where the mines are because they're problematic if you forget.

From a distance, staying aerial is helpful to avoid grenades and missiles. Just don't land too close to him and pay attention if he's about to roll into you. Once in, mix the game up. Bair is a handy killing move but it can be a dead giveaway if you turn around. Up B is eh. If you miss and the Snake player sees it, that's basically one stock you just lost. Dsmash can be a handy surprise move to layer on damage despite its low killing power, as you've said (but otherwise, it's not very helpful and easily punishable). I've seen a Marth player that was very successful at grabbing Snake a few times and finished him off with Dancing Blade once he was at a high percent. Perhaps that may help your game. Mix in a few attacks with the grabs too.

And of course, if you force a Snake player to recover low, grab him and sit there. I'm pretty sure everyone knows this one. What a lame way to kill him.
If he recovers high, edgeguarding may not be the best solution unless you're certain your aerials can finish him at the current moment. You don't want him to airdodge and go past you (putting you on the edge or in range of his powerful Bair). Additionally, if you hit him with Fair, he's going to recover even higher.

I haven't completely formulated a plan for taking out snakes, but I hope this helped you get more ideas.

 

[Pierce7d]

The match vs Snake is pretty linear actually.

Step 1, get past projectiles
Step 2, get past ftilt
Step 3, knock Snake off the stage
Step 4, proceed to edgeguard

If Snake recovers high, then proceed to juggle.
If Snake recovers from juggling, go back to step 2
ElseIf Snake recovers low, spike.

 

[OmegaXF]

I swear if you walk through all the projectiles you will become god like in Snakes eyes. Walking is top tier. ABUSE IT!!!!!!!
And you also need lotion.

 

[Pierce7d]

I swear if you walk through all the projectiles you will become god like in Snakes eyes. Walking is top tier. ABUSE IT!!!!!!!

QFT!

10perfectshields.

 

[Shaya]

It's also epic if you powershield the grenades and they fly back towards your enemy and explode in their face.

:D

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah, Ali is pretty tough lol.

Anyways, since he's the only Snake I've had trouble with, I'll tell you what I've learned from experience and the boards.

Snake will make projectile walls. It's just a spacing thing, so just wait it out instead of trying to blaze through it.

If you can deal with his projectiles, then all that's left really is his Ftilt and jab game. Running into shield is a strong option here because you can shield the first hit of either of those and DS out without worry. You can also let the shield take the hit and Fair or DB out of shield to punish.

When pressuring Snake, spacing must be eztremely tight. Most Fairs should be tippered on his shield (or what you expect to be a shield) to be perfectly safe. Dtilt doesn't seem to help me much here, but maybe it can. I need to test this myself actually.

Other than that, just be sure to stay moving, not necessarily attacking since you should probably want to do more punishing than attacking in my opinion.

Make sure to juggle him as long as possible, but remember to watch out for dropped C4s and B-sticked nades and all.

Hit him hard as he recovers.

Keep a tight ledge trap on him when he's on the edge. Stay just out of get up attack range, but not so far that he can feel safe just getting right up. Your objective here is to force a ledgejump (usually to either an AD or a Nair) then counter or predict otherwise as necessary.

Ummm, don't get Utilted.

Hopefully that should help man. It's not fun losing to Snake.

 

[Nic64]

Best method of approach when he's camping? Two grenades, a c4, sometimes a claymore and falling nikita missles--a lot to deal with when trying to score a hit.

if he's cooking the grenades then he can't really bog your approach down too much because of the waiting time, if not, you can throw them back at him. C4 shouldn't be much of an issue really, just pay attention to him and don't get caught in lag on anything while on it, it is slow to detonate so if you are aware you should be able to block or dodge the explosion. claymores can be set off safely by rolling, if your spacing is perfect you can also use ftilt and fsmash to set off claymores but you have *very* little margin for error, I personally wouldn't do it in the middle of a heated battle. if the claymore is near snake you might consider jumping on it with counter. the nikita is easily dodgeable and can often be punished...taken on their own none of these are that threatening, the problem is if you let him get too comfy and get too many of these things out, they are very disruptive in tandem with each other. try as best you can to not let him get a C4 and claymore set too often, since then he can get behind them and start with the grenades or nikita. the claymore is the one that you are best able to defeat so remaining patient and trying to safely take that out can be key, actually I don't think just a C4 and grenades are that much of a problem, I think grenades that are left on the ground or used as grenade counters are probably more of a problem for approaching than outright camping...

 

[Pierce7d]

Snake cooking grenades fails to fully spaced shield breaker.

They can either RD forward (they should still get hit)
RD backward (no punishment for you)
Shield (WIN)
or Spot dodge (Just keep holding the breaker a little longer, and hit them on release)

 

[Desire]

No, only becasue i HAVE NOT SEEN ANY SNAKE PLAYER IN COUPLE MONTH

 

[Frankin]

ssbb

I down know what to do when the snakes recovers low. What is that thing that everyboddy should know?

 

[Rawrness]

I down know what to do when the snakes recovers low. What is that thing that everyboddy should know?

SPIKEEEE

10spikes

 

[Nightshine]

Yeah dude definetly spike when snake recovers low. His up B cypher thingy might hit you but if tipped (with Marth) hes gone.

 

[feardragon64]

I down know what to do when the snakes recovers low. What is that thing that everyboddy should know?

That or if you can "catch the cypher"
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163346&highlight=catching+cypher

 

[Dynomite]

hate snake worse than mk tbh even when im using marth or mk.. there are good snakes out there that done spam gernades and hide behind them waiting for u then just forward tilt, but i mean cmon thats the majority of them. i have such a hard time with snake whatever i do i cant get passed even beginer snakes (if they are the defensive type) if u get them off the stage they will just upb high up out of marth's reach, all i can think of is a good counterpick agenst them with really cheap sides and celings and stages that move like rainbow and delfino so he cant hide. catch gernades and throw em back and aproach like that? perfect shield alot? ownage spacing? mk banned in itally, snake banned in usa :D lol

 

[Mumble]

That or if you can "catch the cypher"
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163346&highlight=catching+cypher

I use this a lot more than going for the spike if he recovers low.
Idk, it's less risky I guess, and it's funnier.

 

[feardragon64]

I use this a lot more than going for the spike if he recovers low.
Idk, it's less risky I guess, and it's funnier.

When you do this you don't NEED to taunt

 

[Nic64]

there are good snakes out there that done spam gernades and hide behind them waiting for u then just forward tilt

camping grenades is a highly effective strategy against many characters, why would a snake be better for not doing it? hear this often "hi I main snake and I WANT TO LOSE!!"? not to say that snake is bad without it but you can't fault a player for doing what works, don't be silly.