Any tips for using Zelda's new Phantom Down B?

[superange]

So far, I haven't found any use for it.

If a person is far away I'll try to zone with Din's Fire.

If they get close I'd rather grab or use an A move.

If there's a projectile coming, Nayru's Love reflects it instead of just tanking it.

What's a good situation to use Zelda's Phantom?

 

[GameAngel64]

When the opponent is returning to the stage in a predictable manner you can send the Phantom out to get em. He'll float in the air a few feet out. I just make sure to try to send a fully charged Phantom so he smacks them away. Won't work for everyone, but it's an easy KO when it does.

 

[Hebi]

if you don't charge it all the way, it actually soft pushes them out and stuffs recoveries. It won't actually hit them so they don't get it back.

 

[Uncertain Title]

When trying to get back to a stage, you can fire it towards the ledge to deter anyone from ledge-guarding.

 

[Einyuri]

Like others have said, it's fairly good for guarding an obvious recovery attempt or in some very rare cases good to get back onto the stage with by preventing ledge-guards.

If you can predict a dodge-roll towards yourself then it's possible to make some good use of the Phantom. Either that or to block projectiles from coming your way.

I remember one time I sucked up a Little Mac players KO punch by throwing out a phantom towards him, was a funny game.

 

[firewingpegasus]

I've found that it's great for spacing when the opponent is dashing at you.

Usually when someone is coming towards me, I try to predict their timing and us the phantom at its weakest. What it does is that it stops them in their tracks, their attack doesn't hit me, but my phantom. During their ending lag I almost always have time to connect a good f-tilt or f-smash or d-smash through my phantom.

The only downside always seems to be if they decide to roll instead. The ending lag for a close up phantom is bad if the opponent is already behind you. But it works fine against their dash, tilt, grab, smash, or short hop... lol.

It's always just a big game of paper rock scissors, so it just depends how well you can predict their move to use the phantom instead After practicing for a while against all my friends, I almost always have the phantom out or on cool down, and it doesn't cause me to get punished much.

 

[Upke]

I don't use it often, but when I do, it's for the zone where the opponent is too close to use Din's Fire (you risk getting punished because it's quite laggy), but not next to you where you could use normals. If they are running at me in that zone, I'll usually do the uncharged version, like what firewingpegasus was mentioning, but if they are just waiting in that area, knowing moving any farther back would make Din's Fire safe, then I use it like a closer ranged Din's Fire by charging it to reach them.

I could see how it would be helpful with edgeguarding, being very low risk and all, but I haven't utilised it in that manner yet.

 

[Soluble Toast]

I've found Phantom pretty useful to use against Robin's SideB. IIRC, Nayru's is pretty useless against it because it's multi hitbox, but Phantom acts as a wall against it, forcing Robin to use other methods to approach.

I've found it most useful with edgeguarding though. A fully charged Phantom can KO pretty early .

 

[PrimalCarnage]

I've found that it's great for spacing when the opponent is dashing at you.

Usually when someone is coming towards me, I try to predict their timing and us the phantom at its weakest. What it does is that it stops them in their tracks, their attack doesn't hit me, but my phantom. During their ending lag I almost always have time to connect a good f-tilt or f-smash or d-smash.

The only downside always seems to be if they decide to roll instead. The ending lag for a close up phantom is bad if the opponent is already behind you. But it works fine against their dash, tilt, grab, smash, or short hop... lol.

It's always just a big game of paper rock scissors, so it just depends how well you can predict their move to use the phantom instead After practicing for a while against all my, I almost always have the phantom out or on cool down, and it doesn't cause me to get punished much.

Great advice. I'd pretty much ignored uncharged phantom for Zelda's ground game but as a temporary wall and spacing tool, it worked surprisingly well. Though against fast characters, I have a feeling it'll have more trouble.

Also people tend to start trying to jump around a lot after you start walling them, it does have some ending lag so be weary of characters with good bairs. But with good spacing I think you're mostly safe... If only usmash wasn't so bad now it'd be a great bait punisher for the set-up.

 

[Upke]

Well, good thing being in the air sucks because almost all aerials are laggy and shield is broken.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

Yeah there's that, but some short-hopped aerials are still safe (or seem safe). Jigglypuffs bair, Marth/Lucina fair, Mario's nair (that thing is ridiculous), etc...

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't use it often, but when I do, it's for the zone where the opponent is too close to use Din's Fire (you risk getting punished because it's quite laggy), but not next to you where you could use normals. If they are running at me in that zone, I'll usually do the uncharged version, like what firewingpegasus was mentioning, but if they are just waiting in that area, knowing moving any farther back would make Din's Fire safe, then I use it like a closer ranged Din's Fire by charging it to reach them.

I could see how it would be helpful with edgeguarding, being very low risk and all, but I haven't utilised it in that manner yet.

Pretty much what this guy says. Use this move to pressure/punish things on the ground in midrange when they are just outside of DA range. Move is pretty useful if you ask me simply because it gives you a grounded pressure option in a range where you used to have no option aside from a really risky Din's.

Phantom isn't terribly unsafe on shield, it's worth keeping in mind. Also does pretty respectable damage when it DOES hit. As long as you're not throwing this out in point blank range where Zelda is already really strong and has plenty of good tools, Phantom seems practical for the niche options it covers.

 

[Alphatron]

Using it as an edge guarding tool when your opponents have already used their second jump will force them to recover either high or low, so you might be able to use that to your advantage somehow if you want to set up a dair or something. The fully charged phantom will slash whoever is hanging onto the edge once their invincibility is gone, provided that you space it correctly.

I've also been experimenting with using the phantom as a meat shield whenever my opponent was trying to bait Nayru's Love. But it's pretty useless on that front.

For all the downsides this move has, you really have to wonder why the guy can die. The move is too laggy to bother using against anyone with a reflector too.

 

[Katy Parry]

I'll use it during a jump to cover more ground.

If I knock the opponent off with a smash attack, instead of running half way across the stage and charging it, I full jump forward and start charging before I reach the peak of my jump. By the time I land I'll have it fully charged and I'll have covered more ground, while having the option to release if if they try to recover in the air above me.

Something else I've noticed is you typically need to release it sooner than you think you should. It comes out fast, and I used to have trouble timing it correctly. If I release it sooner than I think I need to, for some reason I always hit effectively.

The Phantom can only take 13% before its destroyed, and then Zelda can't summon it again for 6 seconds. I've noticed this time frame is a bit longer sometimes.

Also when using it for edgeguarding, it might help to jump full height off the stage as you're charging so you have a better chance to hit them with it. Most opponents that aren't complete idiots will just come underneath to sweetspot the ledge, making phantom completely useless. as they'll be underneath it.

I also almost always charge it if I'm knocked off the stage. I try to line it up with the ledge so either it will hit them or (main purpose) to create some space if someone's trying to Fsmash me while I'm coming back.

Then I'll fall underneath and sweetspot the ledge safely.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[Kataefi]

I've been doing something against shulk with the phantom that's been consistently gimping his recovery if he recovers low. I THINK you can do it against link and mac and similar recoveries...

Anyway when you knock someone off, jump off but face the ledge (with your back facing the opponent)... Shoot a phantom so that it blocks the ledge (the ledge stops his path no matter how much you charge him up).

When shulk recovers, he seems to hit the phantom instead of the ledge, and is blocked from grabbing the ledge completely (falling to his doom buahaha!!!)

This is not tested, just something i've observed a few times now. I'll see if i can test it against more recoveries!

 

[Uncertain Title]

I've been doing something against shulk with the phantom that's been consistently gimping his recovery if he recovers low. I THINK you can do it against link and mac and similar recoveries...

Anyway when you knock someone off, jump off but face the ledge (with your back facing the opponent)... Shoot a phantom so that it blocks the ledge (the ledge stops his path no matter how much you charge him up).

When shulk recovers, he seems to hit the phantom instead of the ledge, and is blocked from grabbing the ledge completely (falling to his doom buahaha!!!)

This is not tested, just something i've observed a few times now. I'll see if i can test it against more recoveries!

Had a similar thing like this happen when fighting a falco.

 

[Phenomiracle]

I've been doing something against shulk with the phantom that's been consistently gimping his recovery if he recovers low. I THINK you can do it against link and mac and similar recoveries...

Anyway when you knock someone off, jump off but face the ledge (with your back facing the opponent)... Shoot a phantom so that it blocks the ledge (the ledge stops his path no matter how much you charge him up).

When shulk recovers, he seems to hit the phantom instead of the ledge, and is blocked from grabbing the ledge completely (falling to his doom buahaha!!!)

This is not tested, just something i've observed a few times now. I'll see if i can test it against more recoveries!

Sounds like something that would take some good anticipation. A skilled player tries to be as unpredictable as possible in his/her recovery. I'd like to see some of this in action.

I've found using Phantom as a simple shoot-out edgeguard to be incredibly efficient on Shulk; I'd like to see what you've suggested tried on characters like Dedede and Greninja.

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

One niche technique I've found for it is to help with landing when there's a medium distance between myself and my opponent - start charging in the air, and release it once on the ground, effectively letting off a spacing attack during what would have been your landing lag.

Besides that, I'll use it for edge guarding and as an opening move.

 

[Rion]

An example of a Phantom Slash edgeguard that I had today. Fully charged, the KO power, especially this close to the blast zone, is not something to be under estimated.

Of course, making sure their 2nd jump has been used up is important, as it makes their options for dodging this much more limited. So just keep an eye out on what your opponent is actually doing!

It's probably best to use this as early as possible so you can get the full charge ready. There is a good period where you can hold it fully charged, maybe 2-3 seconds or so? So try to consider that as well.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Personally I prefer the Phantom Strike for the quicker charge time and can't warm myself to the default Phantom because of it. I value being able to get to the lv3 Phantom attack faster quite highly, since it's the meatiest attack the Phantom makes by a pretty major margin. It's not going to kill directly, but 28-29 damage from that is pretty painful. It also sends at a low angle, so offensive edgeguard gimps are very possible despite its low launch power. The Phantom not moving forward much sounds bad, but the Phantom Strike still outranges just about everything else and you don't have to worry much about it passing right through someone rushing into you like the other Phantom choices.

And this is an amusing run I had with Phantom Strike.

 

[Alphatron]

That looks...useful! And here I was using the phantom breaker for the incredible shield damage it did. Given that the opponent either dodges that one or just gets hit, maybe I'll switch to the phantom strike soon.

So for the record, tossing this guy out against telegraphed dash attacks has worked surprisingly well for me. The phantom gets in the way allowing me to capitalize off of their end lag. This works especially well against dash attacks that would normally put the opponent behind you. That's also the only time I'd ever use the phantom while the opponent is on the stage.

 

[Rion]

Personally I prefer the Phantom Strike for the quicker charge time and can't warm myself to the default Phantom because of it. I value being able to get to the lv3 Phantom attack faster quite highly, since it's the meatiest attack the Phantom makes by a pretty major margin. It's not going to kill directly, but 28-29 damage from that is pretty painful. It also sends at a low angle, so offensive edgeguard gimps are very possible despite its low launch power. The Phantom not moving forward much sounds bad, but the Phantom Strike still outranges just about everything else and you don't have to worry much about it passing right through someone rushing into you like the other Phantom choices.

And this is an amusing run I had with Phantom Strike.

I really do wonder what the "official" ruling about custom moves is gonna look like when Smash 4 for Wii U comes out.

It'd be nice if they did a like Character Select > A quick and easy "Choose your Specials" segment after all opponents select their characters (something like Marvel Vs Capcom where you pick your assist as you pick the character).

Also, are you using that super long ranged Farore's Wind in that match? Colour me surprised, haha.

 

[Kataefi]

Ang on! I'm noticing a lot of likes for the phantom ledge trick! Wii def mustn't get toooooo excited as it needs to be properly tested. I know it gimps shulk but a thing like this normally takes a lot of time to set up so you gotta be quick!

I'll look in to this some more and see what I find! *makes a mental note*

 

[Alphatron]

Okay, somewhat related question here.

Let's say my opponent gets used to the phantom edge guard and starts recovering low to avoid it. Is it safe to go offstage and attempt a meteor smash? I know Zelda's air game isn't the greatest but still.

 

[Upke]

You can always make it back to the ledge for free.

 

[DoctorDub]

I use it for attacking them while they're off stage if I'm not confident about going out to them. I also use it as something to hide behind when using Din's Fire. It can take a blast from Samus' Beam while I'm dishing out Din's

 

[Katy Parry]

Okay, somewhat related question here.

Let's say my opponent gets used to the phantom edge guard and starts recovering low to avoid it. Is it safe to go offstage and attempt a meteor smash? I know Zelda's air game isn't the greatest but still.

Yes, as long as the stage doesn't have a weird under part (like Guar Plains or whatever it is, the Xenoblade stage) I would recommend that. If its a character with a sex kick, it might be wise to try to air dodge into them.

You have to watch out if they've used their second jump or not yet. If they don't use a second jump, I wouldn't bother, and I'd only use it if they have to use their recovery out as far as the phantom will go fully charged.

That text is a little confusing, but its like this



_ 1

___ 2

_____ 3

_______ 4

_________ 5

____________6


(Phantom Slash full reach)
XX <<<<<<<<<<<< XX ______(Final Destination)_______________



#7

See that angle? If their only option when recovering is to fall at that angle, charge the Phantom. Release it once they line up with the 6. It's a tad hard to do because you have to know your enemy character wise.

- Charge it once they've used their second jump/recovery AND are above AS WELL AS far away from the stage.
- If they try to recover low and sweet spot the edge, i.e, #7, release it immediately. It will most likely wiff, but you'll have a better chance to space yourself rather than sit and release it later. They'll just FF Uair you.

Also the timing is key. If you release too soon or too late, it will easily wiff. Sometimes you need to release it earlier just so the second swing of the blade will reach.

We all need to Master this move. This is a GREAT, powerful move that opens up a lot of doors for Zelda. It can kill at insanely early

Also something we should consider (while risky as hell) is teleporting offstage to land a kill. It's quick and most might not respond to it. It's something I'm practicing.

 

[ooglefart]

I use it to space people out when they run at me or as a combo started.

 

[Tyketto]

I've found it to be useful in edge guarding if my opponent is predicting my usual Din edge guarding. I'll sometimes use a light-medium charged Phantom against dashing. It can also be good to trip people up, as they can lose momentum when they collide with the Phantom. Finally, if my opponent is projectile spamming, it serves well as a tank/shield that I can hide behind.

EDIT: Typo

 

[Zylach]

I've been experimenting with this move as an approach tool lately. I've found that, against certain characters like Link, Samus, and Villager who can out-camp me, I've been forced to approach with Zelda's questionable approach game. I've been trying to use the phantom like I've seen Marths and Lucinas use their shield breaker where they full hop towards the opponent while charging it and release it when necessary. The major difference here is that our phantom can cover a lot of ground in front of us when we fully charge it allowing us to safely approach this way.

It also does some nice shield damage and I've broken shields on overly defensive players several times with this technique. I wouldn't recommend it against a player that spots the phantom charge animation early and just runs behind you though. Use it to mix up approaches when necessary, not as a foolproof plan. Other than that, I'll use it to tank for me while I use Din's as well and have many kills with it when I send it offstage at people.