An index of "leaks" and status: forbrawlbattle's "second post" and Brawl360 removed

[a77]

I really don't understand why people discounted this guy so quickly, while they eat up what the other leakers (something is icky about that word) spout off. I'm not saying I believe either group, but the fact that rapscouter has previously leaked NINTENDO based info would lead me to pick his word over theirs. And in all honesty, I would love the 35-man roster, I just don't think it's as set in stone as people think. I think Fliptroopa touched on some great points that need to be talked about more instead of needless posts about how much you hate/love the supposed "Super StarFox Bros: Brawl-Now with reduced Ridely!" version

People discount him because he gives us false information. Remember when that third party character was revealed on the Dojo last week? That was crazy. Or when Brawl didn't get delayed? Nevermind the multiple people who have actually given us things that have come true.

 

[Ytoabn08]

What is the actual evidence for this 35-man roster again?

 

[Saor Gael]

I just have to be accurate and say Mewtwo is not disconfirmed by the How to Play video.

It does suggest he is not back, but at the same time, there is space for another icon, and absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

[AdmantNESS]

MajinNecro69, here is everything MarkMan and Reno has said about the roster:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227646

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9390948&postcount=238
(In response to Korobooshi's roster)

That list up there is 100% fake.

All I'm going to say is... Sonic is a ***** to unlock. It is true.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9391847&postcount=274

I will say this, 35 characters, 41 stages. That's it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9391666&postcount=265
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9391684&postcount=266

All i want to know is if theres another third party character in it or not. Dont care who or what company

No third party characters that haven't already been announced... I'll debunk what I know when I see it, but other than that, I don't wanna get crucified for anything...

Nintendo is serious business.

And I will absolutely not reply to any PMs.

Unless it's a PM with sexy pictures, but even then, I'll probably just look at it longer.

NeoGAF mod:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9392369&postcount=309

Markman is safe, until the game is released and people actually find the number of characters\stages.

You gotta realize people, leaking info isn't just about getting banned from GAF, there are a lot of repercussions for doing stuff like that.

I don't know if Markman is lying or not, he doesn't seem to be, but I dunno how he knows what he knows either.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9392327&postcount=303

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9393354&postcount=373

I don't work for Brady, I'm not working on a guide or anything, just wanted to clear that up.

In those 35 characters, I'm counting ZSS/Samus and Zelda/Shiekh as one and the same.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9396791&postcount=481
Reno:

Chiming in to say "MarkMan is right"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9396883&postcount=486

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9400317&postcount=558
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9400629&postcount=562

I'm not going to confirm or deny that whole list.

But... Wolf/Falco/Fox ARE playable.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9400774&postcount=577

Not alts..

Bet it?

In response to if Falco/Wolf are alt. cos.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9400848&postcount=591

Yea, really... With Metroid who else is there besides Samus?

Ridley = 100% not a playable char.

Second Brawl NeoGAFthread(Has Spoilers):

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230269

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9406893&postcount=90
Reno:

Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass Link is in!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9407035&postcount=140
Reno:

Originally Posted by OliveJuice:

Newcomers = 13
Pit
Wario
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Diddy Kong
Meta Knight
WW Link
Snake
Lucas
Sonic
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Olimar
Lucario
Wolf

Fixed

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9407455&postcount=269
MarkMan confirm's Reno's list

Reno is 100% correct.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9407861&postcount=397
Regarding sharing info

Reno posted the information about 2 weeks before(regarding VF5 Online + Ver. C on 360), but he shared that information with me several months before he posted it lololol.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9408259&postcount=490
NeoGAF mod doubts Reno is lying

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9412441&postcount=698
Comparisons by another poster

Summary of all that MarkMark has said(Credit to ChronoBound):

MarkMan said:
- 35 total playable characters in Brawl (not counting transformations).
- 41 total stagayable.
- Falco is returning.
- Wolf is playable.
- Suppoerted by Reno

Reno said:
- Gave a list of all 15 Newcomers
- Supported by MarkMan


And we have PORTRAITofRUIN, who is credited for leaking info about Castlevania games before release.

Her topics concerning Brawl was deleted but has commented in this topic.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=40897112

This is a summary of all she said. Credit goes to ChronoBound/Snakey:

PORTRAITofRUIN has said:
- 35 total playable characters in Brawl.
- 41 total stages in Brawl.
- Mewtwo cut.
- Lucario is in.
- Toon Link is in.
- Wolf is in.
- Falco is returning.
- Ridley, Takamaru, Krystal, and Isaac are not playable.

Other topics where some users comment on her credibility:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=40882151
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=40921590

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

9 days 'till this thread means nothing... Keep up the great work!

 

[Ytoabn08]

After reading all that "evidence", I don't see anything solid enough to make me believe. Maybe if I was a member of those forums, and could personally trust those people, but it's not enough.

Oh well, I'm not going to call it stupid or anything, I'm just not convinced and will wait a week.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Do you know how easy it could be for these two guys to be in cahoots? To be the same person even? Reputation's mean jack **** in today's world. Liars get better and better at fabricating stuff like this.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Do you know how easy it could be for these two guys to be in cahoots? To be the same person even? Reputation's mean jack **** in today's world. Liars get better and better at fabricating stuff like this.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Ugh stupid sight lag. Mods please delete one of those.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What makes Markman and Reno any more credible than the other leakers that have leaked information in the past...


I think they just took Chronobound's list and are praying on everyone's pessimism-

 

[radiansansred]

161-- DBZBT3
62-- MK: Armageddon
40-- Tekken 6
37-- SF Alpha 3
56-- MvsC 2
60-- Narutime Accel 2
40-- CvsS 2

I see no reason why Brawl should have less.

The Dragon Ball Z games don't even really NEED that many characters in the first place. Most of the characters are just filler and many of them are just costumes/carbon copies of each other.
It's EASY for SFA3, MvC2, and CvS2 to have more than 35 characters, mostly because THOSE games are just copy pasted. There may be different ways to play, but essentially it's still the same game. ESPECIALLY with Marvel vs. Capcom 2, which was just Capcom copy pasting EVERYTHING from the Versus Series.
And finally, I've never played ANY Narutimate game, but I can assure you that there probably shouldn't be that many fighters in that game as well.
All that leaves is Tekken, and come on. Tekken SIX. That means they've had five other games to establish other characters and different movesets. Granted, Namco has to think up new characters, but when you have a fighting game series that's been around for a long time, you CAN accumulate fighters like that.

As for Brawl, granted, you have about over 100 years of Nintendo history to go through to retreive characters, but I want you to look at Brawl and look at all these other games. All of these other games are JUST fighting games. At the base, Brawl is a fighting game, but it has a deep adventure mode, a seperate Stadium Mode, Target Test, Versus Mode, all the Assist Trophies, and all the Stages.

Going by what you guys are saying, you'd be happy if the game was just like SSB64, just as long as you got as MANY characters as you want.

 

[NeoZ]

I just have to be accurate and say Mewtwo is not disconfirmed by the How to Play video.

It does suggest he is not back, but at the same time, there is space for another icon, and (the) absence of proof is not proof of absence.

QFT, especially on that last part.

 

[Agosta44]

Rapscouter had leaked info in the passed. I debunked him yesterday, so what does that mean about these guys I wonder

 

[CyberBenX4]

After reading all that "evidence", I don't see anything solid enough to make me believe. Maybe if I was a member of those forums, and could personally trust those people, but it's not enough.

Well, then maybe you could stand to listen to the musings from a guy who's been hanging around those forums for years (TreIII on NeoGAF, CyberAkuma on GFaqs). I truly believe that these guys are telling the truth.

I was there when PORTRAITofRUIN basically took it upon herself to single-handedly leak the goodness of PoR(the game), weeks before the game was launched any where in the world. She even took it upon herself to leak the game's entire OST for a while, until Konami got on her case about it.

I was also there MarkMan and Reno have been on the forefront for a number of things, such as for information relating to Soul Calibur, Tekken and other major fighting game releases over the years. The other mods are also choosing to back them on their Smash revelations, and the mods of NeoGAF have little reason to participate in any large scale "game" that will undermine GAF's reputation as a veritable place for discussion and news relating to video games.

So, in that light...again, I'm inclined to believe this tidbit. The only way that I think they could stand to be "wrong", would be if these guys played a build of the game that still did not have the complete roster of stages and characters unlocked, which I would consider to still be a very real possibility.

After all, in PORTRAITofRUIN's example, she basically played a build of the game that just prior to the actual release of the game. The only thing that didn't match up in the consumer release was how Richter and Maria had extra voice clips in her version of the game, which didn't make it into the final release (for some reason that I don't think has ever been unveiled).

Then there's just the thing that I think that Ninty could have very well just made it so that these guys played an incomplete build, thinking ahead to the (inevitable) notion where people probably wouldn't zip their lips and reveal their experiences and findings. After all, these were the same guys who edited the first leak of the Melee intro trailer, so we wouldn't know what exactly was up with Sheik & Zelda. So I wouldn't put it past them to be sneaky...

Any way, all the tin-foil hat stuff aside...you can choose to believe what you believe. But again, I'm just offering musings from a guy who's been around these guys for a good while, and has reason to believe that they're talking about is the truth....to at least the degree that they're privy to know themselves.

 

[prettymanfairy]

What makes Markman and Reno any more credible than the other leakers that have leaked information in the past...


I think they just took Chronobound's list and are praying on everyone's pessimism-

This. Melee's roster, though unbelievable, had a substantial amount of characters. 35 isn't an "insane" amount as Nintendo said.

 

[MilesPrower]

What makes Markman and Reno any more credible than the other leakers that have leaked information in the past...


I think they just took Chronobound's list and are praying on everyone's pessimism-

I hope you're right.

Not that I doubt ShadowXOR or anything (the characters he claimed to see just might be in the game) but like I mentioned earlier I think they might have just got lucky on it with Ness/Luke/Jiggs unveiled.

The way Sakurai is, that just doesn't seem right. BLOW ME DOWN, ORIV OIR!

Lucario 4 top tier btw. What will it's FS be? O.o

 

[Black/Light]

Da**, I want to post but the server here aint relable enuff. .

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Soul Calibur and Tekken are made by Namco, a smaller 3rd party fighter creater, Brawl is made by fricking Nintendo, the king, the practically creator of the video game industry as it is today. They would be smarter with sensitive information, sorry, these leakers have to be wrong. Too much points to them being wrong. They may be nice guys and been right in the past, but there's a first time for everything.

 

[KirbySSB]

They would be smarter with sensitive information, sorry, these leakers have to be wrong. Too much points to them being wrong. They may be nice guys and been right in the past, but there's a first time for everything.

keep clutching for straws there. we JUST SAW them accidently reveal 3 more characters. i don't know how you can say these leakers HAVE to be wrong.

 

[Black/Light]

Ok, heres how much rep they have from what I gather. . .

PoR leaked . . .well, PORTRAIT of RUIN. She even leaked the name (she named her self after that it seems) and crap loads of other big things about it that all turned out true. And the company behind that game IS involed with brawl so. . .

MarkMan leaked VF5, Soul Calibur and Tekken stuff (AKA, crap loads about fighting games). From what I have read he even leaked there being StarWars character in SC5 a month before it was reveal (I think it's just been revealed this month).

Reno is the biggy here. From what I hear he has been leaking info for the past 3 years and it respected amoung the NeoMods.

They ALL seem to be on Serebii's level of cred if not higher for leaking more than one serie's info. So yea, I believe them. . . Im just hoping that if Nya IS right and that Brawl duel layered that they can somehow have DLC characters over WiFi.
They have WiiWare and they have DLC for stages. . . I don't know why they couldn't do the same for PCs.

 

[Hejiru]

Newcomers = 13
Pit
Wario
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Diddy Kong
Meta Knight
WW Link
Snake
Lucas
Sonic
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Olimar
Lucario
Wolf

Wait... I count 15... I'm confused?

 

[Black/Light]

I mean SC4. . .

 

[Hejiru]

Wait, so every character is confirmed except... MARTH! That was the part that was speculation! I assumed since only Ike for an FE rep, made no sense, so Marth is the last one. But it could be someone else?

 

[mezbomber]

the real frustration for me comes from the fact that we KNEW certain characters were being considered (Geno, Ridley, Krystal, Takemaru, Sukapon, etc....) by Sakurai. I want to trust this games' creators that they know not to throw all their eggs in every game mode except multiplayer. Character inclusions as SSE cameos, bosses, ATs, etc... mean little if we can't play around with them in multiplayer. and, i want to trust the game makers that they understand that it's the multiplayer that has kept players playing the game for the last six years. Any other mode in this game will be played (mostly) for unlocking characters in order to have the fullest potential for multiplayer play.

I could easily handle another year long delay if I knew there would be more PCs than this (hopefully fake) roster leak.

 

[OddCrow]

"Everyone who believes this roster is stupid" ok.

I am going to track you down and laugh so hard at you when this is confirmed.

Just because you people hate it, it must be fake, despite the evidence. GET OVER IT.

: )
sounds like a challenge...but really now R.O.B. Won't be a PC. Quote me on it. You guys just want to flock to the next bit of crap so you can say "lullz I told you" even tho you supported like 7 other "leaks" before that <_>

 

[Rodriguezjr]

PORTRAITofRUIN can be trusted. I remember her showing off videos of Richter mode and Sisters mode in Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin like months before the game came out in December and also revealed a bit of news from other Castlevania games. In the end, it was all true.

 

[Zevox]

Ok, heres how much rep they have from what I gather. . .

PoR leaked . . .well, PORTRAIT of RUIN. She even leaked the name (she named her self after that it seems) and crap loads of other big things about it that all turned out true. And the company behind that game IS involed with brawl so. . .

MarkMan leaked VF5, Soul Calibur and Tekken stuff (AKA, crap loads about fighting games). From what I have read he even leaked there being StarWars character in SC5 a month before it was reveal (I think it's just been revealed this month).

Reno is the biggy here. From what I hear he has been leaking info for the past 3 years and it respected amoung the NeoMods.

They ALL seem to be on Serebii's level of cred if not higher for leaking more than one serie's info. So yea, I believe them. . . Im just hoping that if Nya IS right and that Brawl duel layered that they can somehow have DLC characters over WiFi.
They have WiiWare and they have DLC for stages. . . I don't know why they couldn't do the same for PCs.

And more on this: one of the mods over on NeoGaf has come out and affirmed that Reno (and by extension MarkMan, since Reno confirmed everything he said) is telling the truth.

Now, as YSM pointed out yesterday, most of the mods there are members of the gaming industry, and as such its reasonable to presume one of them at least knows the real roster. Plus we know they have a policy of IP banning anyone spreading false information about upcoming games. The fact that not only did the mods there not ban Reno and MarkMan, but that one outright stood up for them, can mean only one thing.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have our roster.

Zevox

 

[ChewyChase]

Thanks, this is really awesome to have. Even if it's mostly untrue, it's fun to predict who appears true.

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Okay, we have our roster.

Now, for god's sake,

what is it?

 

[YSM]

I think the only chance that they're wrong is either:

1. They didn't play the full game, and Nintendo gave them an incomplete roster(or, if they didn't play it, their source).

2. They know the truth, and they're screwing with us for the fun of it.


Both are small chances, but neither are impossible, I think. The thing that keeps bugging me is that Markman, Reno, and others don't even seem to CARE about this game. It's almost like the enjoy pissing people off.

 

[Darkraid]

Oh **** the roster is true. Guess I'll have to live with it. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Sakuraiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[YSM]

I think the only chance that they're wrong is either:

1. They didn't play the full game, and Nintendo gave them an incomplete roster(or, if they didn't play it, their source).

2. They know the truth, and they're screwing with us for the fun of it.


Both are small chances, but neither are impossible, I think. The thing that keeps bugging me is that Markman, Reno, and others don't even seem to CARE about this game. It's almost like the enjoy pissing people off.

That, and why on earth is Nintendo doing NOTHING to stop this? You KNOW they know...they realized we figured out the Jiggly/Ness/Lucario thing very quickly and pulled it. We know Nintendo is strict on leaks and aren't afraid to take action, so why no Nintendo Ninjas?

These boards are so effin laggy...

 

[SAMaine]

Assuming of course, Nintendo hadn't thought before hand about the Melee leak, and had no one person have access to all the characters... I mean look at the one confirmed leak we've had... it was fixed in record time. Nintendo reads the boards, and I figure if this roster is indeed true, then Nintendo will ban anyone confirming this roster to ever be hired by Nintendo again, because of broken NDAs.

Namely if Reno & MarkMan are indeed telling the truth... Then I want in-game pics of the other hidden characters. That should be easy enough if they have the final copy.

 

[silver777]

Thanks, this is really awesome to have. Even if it's mostly untrue, it's fun to predict who appears true.

No, it is not awesome, Thats a bad roster.

 

[Ytoabn08]

I think the only chance that they're wrong is either:

1. They didn't play the full game, and Nintendo gave them an incomplete roster(or, if they didn't play it, their source).

2. They know the truth, and they're screwing with us for the fun of it.


Both are small chances, but neither are impossible, I think. The thing that keeps bugging me is that Markman, Reno, and others don't even seem to CARE about this game. It's almost like the enjoy pissing people off.

That, and why on earth is Nintendo doing NOTHING to stop this? You KNOW they know...they realized we figured out the Jiggly/Ness/Lucario thing very quickly and pulled it. We know Nintendo is strict on leaks and aren't afraid to take action, so why no Nintendo Ninjas?

What would those Nintendo Ninjas do? Delete the forums? They're probably trying to figure out who leaked.

 

[Darkraid]

No, this is not a leak. This is just common sense.

I'm a long-time lurker at various smashbros forums (gamefaqs, neogaf, smashboards, here, etc). I've never registered, primarily because I'm not interested in fawning over various "prophets". I'm tired of reading the same things over and over again, so I'm making my first post.

Here goes:

Nintendo is slowly releasing the names of characters. We currently have a 22 character roster confirmed for sure [on smashbros.com]. Now, the 35-man rosters that are being bandied around have Lucario, Wolf, and ROB as the ONLY surprises [ie: unreleased, new appearances]

Are you serious?

1. If you're Sakurai, you don't put in years of work on new characters just to release it all ahead of time. That doesn't make sense from a marketing perspective or even from an enjoyment perspective. Sakurai obviously cares about the entire game experience (not just the tournament-scene multiplayer) and thus he will try to have plenty of surprises for avid smashers.

2. If you have a character in Melee, you're not just going to take him out without reason. There's no reason to leave out Mewtwo. There just isn't. He's a **** fighter - so what? Was the disk going to explode if they included the genetic freak? They have a move set already. They have models already made (from various games, including Melee). Why not put him in? Answer: they would, unless they already have more than enough characters [and basically everyone agrees that there aren't enough characters]

3. 35 is a strange number. This is a bit random, but they had 14 the first game, then 25 the second game [a 'meager' increase of 11]. Now, they know that people complained about the lack of characters in Melee - why increase the character count by even fewer? It makes little-to-no sense.

4. The Famitsu argument: 240 hours (the declared playing time for all characters combined) is not cleanly divisible by 35. 40 and 48 both work much better.

5. Clones. Seriously, even if I'm the laziest gamemaker in the world (which Sakurai is not), I know I'm going to get heavily scrutinized by fanboys and avid smashers for the number of characters I include. Why would I not make clones if I'm running short on character ideas? If I only have 35 characters so far (a meager increase of 10), why would I not throw in Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy? They're easy to program, since we already have the movesets, models, and physics. Speaking as a programmer, a clone is a programmer's best friend. There will be clones. Count on it.

6. Bosses. Some bosses don't play well as characters (see: Giga Bowser, Rayquaza, Master Hand). But that's mainly due to their size. I refuse to believe that any normal sized bosses will appear in smash and not be selectable as characters. It would be oddly limiting. Again, remember that Sakurai knows the criticisms of character quantity. He'll do everything to prevent that this time around. For instance, Ridley - if they're going to program a move set, physics, and a model for him, they'd be silly not putting him in (it's for this reason that I'll believe the ROB rumors, btw - they have him programmed for SSE, why not as a character?).

7. There are still many characters left on Sakurai's poll. Even if they were clones, Sakurai would put them in. Black Knight? Easy to clone [pseudo Ike clone]. Isaac? How hard is it to make Yet Another Swordsman?

Conclusion: The point that I'm making here is not that any of the characters mentioned above are in for sure [read: I don't know if Isaac, Black Knight, Ridley, Mewtwo, Roy, etc.. are in], but rather that Sakurai would never let the game have only 35 characters. It just wouldn't happen. If they went through the trouble to program Sonic (despite not knowing if they'd get the rights, iirc), they'll certainly make sure the game is saturated with characters. I'm betting on 40+ -- 48 would be mouth-watering.

I think he's making sense. Why would Sakurai work on this game for so long when only he'll include 35 characters?

 

[KirbySSB]

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Bowser
4. Peach
5. Donkey Kong
6. Diddy Kong
7. Link
8. Zelda/Sheik
9. Ganondorf
10. Toon Link
11. Samus/Zero Suit Samus
12. Yoshi
13. Kirby
14. Meta Knight
15. King Dedede
16. Fox
17. Falco
18. Wolf
19. Pikachu
20. Pokemon Trainer
21. Jigglypuff
22. Lucario
23. Ike
24. Marth
25. Lucas
26. Ness
27. Pit
28. Ice Climbers
29. Mr. Game & Watch
30. R.O.B.
31. Wario
32. Pikmin & Olimar
33. Captain Falcon
34. Snake
35. Sonic

 

[YSM]

What would those Nintendo Ninjas do? Delete the forums? They're probably trying to figure out who leaked.

Well the NeoGAF mods work in the industry...certainly Nintendo should know who THEY are, and could put pressure on them. Don't get me wrong, I still believe the 35 character theory. I was the one who alerted SWF, actually. But there are still a few unanswered questions.

 

[sirmackerel]

As awesome as it would be if MarkMan, Reno, and the NeroGAF mods were participating in some sort of elaborate ruse on the Smash communiy for the hell of it, that's the stuff of fanfiction. Well, I suppose people can still cling to the hope that MarkMan and Reno saw a non-final build of the game that was missing some characters...

 

[Strongside]

No, this is not a leak. This is just common sense.

I'm a long-time lurker at various smashbros forums (gamefaqs, neogaf, smashboards, here, etc). I've never registered, primarily because I'm not interested in fawning over various "prophets". I'm tired of reading the same things over and over again, so I'm making my first post.

Here goes:

Nintendo is slowly releasing the names of characters. We currently have a 22 character roster confirmed for sure [on smashbros.com]. Now, the 35-man rosters that are being bandied around have Lucario, Wolf, and ROB as the ONLY surprises [ie: unreleased, new appearances]

Are you serious?

1. If you're Sakurai, you don't put in years of work on new characters just to release it all ahead of time. That doesn't make sense from a marketing perspective or even from an enjoyment perspective. Sakurai obviously cares about the entire game experience (not just the tournament-scene multiplayer) and thus he will try to have plenty of surprises for avid smashers.

2. If you have a character in Melee, you're not just going to take him out without reason. There's no reason to leave out Mewtwo. There just isn't. He's a **** fighter - so what? Was the disk going to explode if they included the genetic freak? They have a move set already. They have models already made (from various games, including Melee). Why not put him in? Answer: they would, unless they already have more than enough characters [and basically everyone agrees that there aren't enough characters]

3. 35 is a strange number. This is a bit random, but they had 14 the first game, then 25 the second game [a 'meager' increase of 11]. Now, they know that people complained about the lack of characters in Melee - why increase the character count by even fewer? It makes little-to-no sense.

4. The Famitsu argument: 240 hours (the declared playing time for all characters combined) is not cleanly divisible by 35. 40 and 48 both work much better.

5. Clones. Seriously, even if I'm the laziest gamemaker in the world (which Sakurai is not), I know I'm going to get heavily scrutinized by fanboys and avid smashers for the number of characters I include. Why would I not make clones if I'm running short on character ideas? If I only have 35 characters so far (a meager increase of 10), why would I not throw in Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy? They're easy to program, since we already have the movesets, models, and physics. Speaking as a programmer, a clone is a programmer's best friend. There will be clones. Count on it.

6. Bosses. Some bosses don't play well as characters (see: Giga Bowser, Rayquaza, Master Hand). But that's mainly due to their size. I refuse to believe that any normal sized bosses will appear in smash and not be selectable as characters. It would be oddly limiting. Again, remember that Sakurai knows the criticisms of character quantity. He'll do everything to prevent that this time around. For instance, Ridley - if they're going to program a move set, physics, and a model for him, they'd be silly not putting him in (it's for this reason that I'll believe the ROB rumors, btw - they have him programmed for SSE, why not as a character?).

7. There are still many characters left on Sakurai's poll. Even if they were clones, Sakurai would put them in. Black Knight? Easy to clone [pseudo Ike clone]. Isaac? How hard is it to make Yet Another Swordsman?

Conclusion: The point that I'm making here is not that any of the characters mentioned above are in for sure [read: I don't know if Isaac, Black Knight, Ridley, Mewtwo, Roy, etc.. are in], but rather that Sakurai would never let the game have only 35 characters. It just wouldn't happen. If they went through the trouble to program Sonic (despite not knowing if they'd get the rights, iirc), they'll certainly make sure the game is saturated with characters. I'm betting on 40+ -- 48 would be mouth-watering.QUOTE]

I think he's making sense. Why would Sakurai work on this game for so long when only he'll include 35 characters?

The most sense have seen this entire **** thread.