An idea about optimum performance!?!?!!?

[_Kadaj_]

I just came with an idea to take a certain character match-up and put a vid to each one
showing how the match is supposed to be played Effectively in a tournament enviorment.

Not just any match but a match between two skilled players

Like say for instance

Marth Vs. Snake

Me v.s. Candy (snake)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0lhI2JB_7g

^ This is just an example of what im trying to get you to understand^

Not only does it show how to properly use techniques in certain situations it also reflects the match-up from a visual aspect as well

And this could be done for every character so along side of a match-up discussion ppl can actually attain a visual reference as well...

Discuss.....What do you guys think about the idea??

 

[-Jumpman-]

I think everyone plays differently and this won't help them. I don't like the video by the way, but that's just me.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Everyone's entitled to there opinion that's the purpose of a discussion.

but with that being said you could have a vid of and aggressive marth and one of a defensive play style

 

[feardragon64]

I like the general idea, but I agree with Jumpman to an extent. There are too many different factors in determining if something can be considered "optimum performance." What are the guidelines for determining that? How do you factor in things like the current mentality and thought process of the game? Some risks might be taken that were only done because of previous actions. One could argue that it was an unnecessary risk, but it still works! So which one was right? Where do you draw the line? Those kinds of questions come up.

...But...like I said I like the general idea of it. I think posting entire matches is a bit much. The alternative is to say, "here's a proper snake juggle in action." The problem with that is it becomes much more work and categorizing different examples of things that deserve a video(making an annoyingly long list that is also most likely character dependent). Another example of one of those would be "how to properly approach a falco intelligently spamming lasers." One thing to note is that these videos would never be absolutes, only examples of A WAY to do something. And unfortunately, we're left to settle with "a satisfactory example of how x action should be done." Then there's the matter of getting the actual videos to go along with those.

 

[_Kadaj_]

true.
we could do the examples of each situation but that really would take forever lol

i guess it kinda isn't that much help considering some peoples metagame is NO WHERE near close to some of the other players

 

[feardragon64]

Basically it depends on a few factors for this thing to work

1) Who are you doing this for?
2) What is the specific ultimate goal of this?
3) How much work do you have to do for that audience to understand the core of it?
4) How much work are you willing to do?

Answers imo:
1) Noobs to marth-those who kinda sorta understand the match-ups. I suppose a bit for those who already understand it and can help a bit with more advanced marths but noobs will be the main audience because...
2) To educate. Duh. That's why we do basically most of the work on here now. Whether it's to educate ourselves or others. Hopefully everyone will take something away but mostly I think it's about educating noobs.
3) Probably a lot. But then again I don't have much faith in the general intelligence of people.
4) My first instinct is to say not much. But then I realize that I can't think of anything better to do with the time I spend on here. Meta-game isn't exactly progressing or anything. After I finish finals and crap I'm down to work on it if others are >>

 

[_Kadaj_]

lets do it then.

it could be a really great addition to the marth boards and to the smash community as a whole.

who knows maybe it could drive away some of the people who are stuck on who's top tier and who isnt

 

[Steel]

no.

this would require for the noob's opponent to play EXACTLY like the marth's did. the noob would also try to play exactly like the marth (and most likely fail miserably). we would also need top-level marths to do it, and if noobs are taking their videos as a guide they may start to make the same mistakes they do. this won't work

and we have a video thread.
^^^

 

[_Kadaj_]

no steel lol we have top level marth's in the demonstration vid not noob marth's

 

[Steel]

did you.. read what i said?

 

[feardragon64]

Stupid backspace. Lost my post....

Anyways steel, I feel the same way you do in that noobs won't understand the core reasoning behind actions and will fail miserably when they try and emulate it. You need to break it down for them. Of course that means short video clips for single objectives(getting past TL's projectiles, juggling snake, glide tossing effectively used in a match, etc.) accompanied by explanations for WHY it worked. Ideally, short explanations that get the point across.

Give a noob an essay and they'll take away a sentence or two.
Give a noob a few sentences and hopefully they'll take away or two.

But ya, the biggest problem is finding/making the videos in small segments. I'll give you that. It's hard to find the clips that won't present general habits that are bad in them. But I think it's still doable.

 

[UWOcho]

i think its a brilliant idea not in the sense that it will show people exactly how to play certain match ups (that would surely lead to failure), but it would show competent players various tools that marth has, spacing techniques, and options in certain situations. Instead of just posting vids in the video thread (most of which are probably useless or standard marth matches), if you had vids with specific things you thought you should let people know or show off, you could post it in here and leave a comment saying to go to the Xth minute in the video.

 

[_Kadaj_]

did you.. read what i said?

yea i was just messin with you lol

i can't get on aim so it kinda takes the fun out of messing around
but yea it'd take up alot of time trying get them to understand the reasoning behind certain actions

Edit: nvm fear said it before me

 

[∫unk]

This would be really useful for intermediate to advance marth players...

Even if people's styles are different I learn so much about certain matchups by watching good people play each other so a video archive of some of the best playing the matchup would be good imo.

The video thread is cluttered and outdated.

 

[bryu_1337]

Alright, I'd say I have an ok Marth. I can beat pretty much everyone in my area with him but I definately still need work.

I think something like this would be great but at the same point impractical. Like previously siad there are just so many variables that you might as well just re-vamp the match-up page by adding alot of links to videos to show both wins and losses by marth and then sort of pick apart what went right/wrong.

Idk though, itll still be alot of work and may only help high caliber players like kadaj. But who knows.

 

[Punishment Divine]

This would be really useful for intermediate to advance marth players...

Even if people's styles are different I learn so much about certain matchups by watching good people play each other so a video archive of some of the best playing the matchup would be good imo.

The video thread is cluttered and outdated.

I have to agree with Junk on this one.

I learn a lot from watching vids, not about EXACTLY what to do, but what moves to use in what situations. This would certainly help ME and I'm sure it might help others as well. I also agree that the vid thread is way outdated, should probably organize that more to include recent, useful vids in one section and old, useless vids in another.

 

[Steel]

this isn't happening

we're doing something else

-mbr

 

[Darxmarth23]

this isn't happening

we're doing something else

-mbr

Seems like the end of discussion.

Vid don't help too much. They only show what could be done in a few of the infinite posibilities against a certain chararcter.

i dont think this would add up to help the metagame progress.

sorry kadaj

PS: What happened to your pink steel?

 

[Mazaloth]

The thing about this idea is that it wouldn't be for new Marth players, and if we don't stress the point that the contents would be theoretical to the gameplay, then those who are new will try to play exactly like the post-metagame style, and they will undoubtedly fail.

And the last thing we need is threads saying, "Why didn't this work?! I did everything the threads told me to do!". New Marthers have to develope their own playstyle and get the hang of the character first. Giving them to much to eat will make them fat and incapable to properly function.
Only when they are use to Marth and understand the basics (IE: Spacing, SHFF, available options), can they effectively introduce 'Advanced tactics".

The thing about all of the collection, it is to integrate the style rather then base the persons full playstyle on. We must try to find a way to make everyone understand this.

 

[_Kadaj_]

*goes to MBR*

 

[ChaosKnight]

this isn't happening

we're doing something else

-mbr

oh noes because the marth back room has decided final judgement this idea should just be shot down >_>


lol ...........

 

[Steel]

I'm way to lazy to keep typing in pink.

 

[ChaosKnight]

sigh his name is in pink already what more pink do you want gosh >_>

 

[_Kadaj_]

lol CK when you coming to SoVa

 

[Darxmarth23]

I'm way to lazy to keep typing in pink.

Ah, okay.

Good enough.

Lulz 2 CK. Pink is pimp. The more you can use it and not be girly, the better. And if you are a girl, nice color.

 

[Remzi]

Maybe I should make a new vid thread. We'll only put in the better videos, I'll watch every vid to make sure it doesn't set a bad example.

 

[∫unk]

Bengals PM Pierce to let you in the MBR. I'll PM him too.

Steel is already making a thread.

 

[_Kadaj_]

lol yea bengals were already on it

 

[Remzi]

Bengals PM Pierce to let you in the MBR. I'll PM him too.

Steel is already making a thread.

Lol I asked him like a week ago and didn't get a reply. Maybe he'll listen to you

I'll send him another


EDIT: Lol yea I'm not really in the loop till I get into the MBR, sorry

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Good idea, it's going to help somebody. About everyone can learn something off the video to their own interpretations. I wish this wasn't the marth boards though.

 

[_Kadaj_]

maybe you should suggest it in the fox and yoshi boards then

 

[Rob_Gambino]

I don't even play yoshi or fox in brawl, except teams. I'll go fox in brawl teams sometimes. Melee yoshi is too fun. I use a lot of characters, and I like to use marth in the ditto. You should put up a sexy ditto.

 

[∫unk]

...check this video thread that's stickied.

I have a ditto up. And Chaosknight and Kadaj have a ditto up too (maybe not in the thread but it's easy to find anyway).

 

[feardragon64]

And Chaosknight and Kadaj have a ditto up too (maybe not in the thread but it's easy to find anyway).

http://tinyurl.com/5gyf5d