An Entire Thread in Defense of Corrin

[Ura]

Okay, so I just read your post. Hmm. You say you aren't miffed about a character you want getting in. Then you bring up Isaac, and wonder why he wasn't chosen.

Sure, you say you hate Inklings but wouldn't have minded them. But you're still arguing that some character took "the place" of another. And that, combined with the attitude, makes your insistence of neutrality hard to believe.

Fact is that Corrin was very likely to have made it into a Smash game eventually, if no other FE game was released before then.

If you're going to be salty, then be salty at Roy, who, like Isaac, appeared as the main character in one GBA game and never again, yet is back in Smash as a semi-clone no less. (Just kidding, don't be salty at Roy, because being salty over optional DLC characters is silly.)

If anything, it makes more sense to add Corrin than Roy, because unlike Roy, his game will actually sell well. Even if Corrin wasn't in Smash.

See my specific portions about Roy because I address just that, both his appearance in Melee and Smash 4. Also, your claims about Roy's game are false. His game is among the best selling FE games in Japan.

I would be salty about Inklings. I already admitted that. I just said that I would at least understand the value of them being in the game and that they would technically be a breath of fresh air in the game. Would also be happy for their fans as well.

I brought Isaac up because among the most prominent pro-Corrin arguments is that we should throw away all our bad feelings about the character because of how he/she plays and then I brought Isaac up to counter that argument. What I said before was independent and correlated to the fact that there's other characters I don't necessarily want in the game but would be happy to see in the game or at the very least be happy for the people that wanted the character in.

Well, look at it this way. Smash 4 was released as a fully complete game with an expansive roster of about 50 characters. Sometime later, we get the announcement that a single character, Mewtwo, would be added as DLC. Months later, once Mewtwo was ready, we get another character and the announcement of a Smash ballot to vote for our favorite characters. Months go by and we get more and more characters, as well as additional stages, music, and costumes, going quite well beyond what most of us expected (especially considering that, for a long time, DLC was only wishful thinking) Eventually, things wrap up with the #1 worldwide choice for a Ballot character.

And here you are complaining about not getting specific characters, specific stages, and brand new modes.

See what I mean?

Na bruh, my post was specifically related to the Presentation last Tuesday and how weak it was as a finale. If yoru going out with a bang, do it the right way.

 

[Seanp12]

See my specific portions about Roy because I address just that, both his appearance in Melee and Smash 4. Also, your claims about Roy's game are false. His game is among the best selling FE games in Japan.

I would be salty about Inklings. I already admitted that. I just said that I would at least understand the value of them being in the game and that they would technically be a breath of fresh air in the game.

I brought Isaac up because among the most prominent pro-Corrin arguments is that we should throw away all our bad feelings about the character because of how he/she plays and then I brought Isaac up to counter that argument. What I said before was independent and correlated to the fact that there's other characters I don't necessarily want in the game but would be happy to see in the game or at the very least be happy for the people that wanted the character in.

I suppose I shouldn't have referenced sales, since FE has always been popular in Japan. Roy, as an FE character, not a Smash character, is still one of the least popular Lords worldwide, and his game isn't the most popular either, among the worldwide players who have played it. And in the case of your Roy excuses: Corrin didn't take anybody's place either. Bayonetta was the one that won the Smash ballot, not Corrin. Corrin was going to be in regardless of any other reason. And the ability to be a clone isn't a good reason for a character to be in Smash, and I say that as somebody who loves Dark Pit (and all other things Kid Icarus Uprising) and Lucina. If FE has "too many reps," blame it on the roster-fattening semi-clone rather than the original character from a game that's likely to be extremely popular.

And Corrin isn't a breath of fresh air? Just because he happens to come from a game series that already has a lot of characters? I have a dream that Smash characters will one day live in a game where they will not be judged by the series of their origin but by the content of their movesets.

So Isaac is original. Great. Know what? I would be happy with an original Isaac just as much as an original Corrin or even an original Mario or Pokemon character. Because, ultimately, fun characters are what DLC should be.

 

[Ura]

I suppose I shouldn't have referenced sales, since FE has always been popular in Japan. Roy, as an FE character, not a Smash character, is still one of the least popular Lords worldwide, and his game isn't the most popular either, among the worldwide players who have played it. And in the case of your Roy excuses: Corrin didn't take anybody's place either. Bayonetta was the one that won the Smash ballot, not Corrin. Corrin was going to be in regardless of any other reason. And the ability to be a clone isn't a good reason for a character to be in Smash, and I say that as somebody who loves Dark Pit (and all other things Kid Icarus Uprising) and Lucina. If FE has "too many reps," blame it on the roster-fattening semi-clone rather than the original character from a game that's likely to be extremely popular.

And Corrin isn't a breath of fresh air? Just because he happens to come from a game series that already has a lot of characters? I have a dream that Smash characters will one day live in a game where they will not be judged by the series of their origin but by the content of their movesets.

So Isaac is original. Great. Know what? I would be happy with an original Isaac just as much as an original Corrin or even an original Mario or Pokemon character. Because, ultimately, fun characters are what DLC should be.

Don't give a crap about people that hate FE6 and Roy. They don't want to give Roy any credit as a character and how his game revived the FE series so they can screw themselves for all I care.

Corrin did. Plain and simple. If you're going to sit here and tell me that she didn't then that's a load of crap. There were so many highly requested characters people wanted in the game and she got in over all of them. Sakurai even admitted she was in because of the upcoming game. I hate the rep argument as much as the next guy but in cases like this it should very much be a factor given that we already had a FE DLC character. He's clearly biased towards this series and it's disgusting.

Like I said before, I brought up Isaac not just because I wanted him in the game but to also kill this notion that we should put any negative feelings aside towards Corrin because of her moveset. Isaac happened to be a highly requested character who also has broad moveset potential and by the criteria set out by a lot has more ground being in the game than Corrin does. I really don't give a crap about moveset. DLC is about the character and not how they play. Maybe it is but the characters themselves are much more important than that.

Bayonetta I also didn't like and i'm pretty skeptical about. Not that I don't think she wasn't the #1 choice for Europe but by how she was selected. Kinda odd that he pointed to Europe as the reason for her conclusion. The fact that we don't know anything else about the Ballot is also very suspicious. Not throwing accusations here but it sounds like Sakurai did a lot of nitpicking with the Ballot.

 

[False Sense]

Don't give a crap about people that hate FE6 and Roy. They don't want to give Roy any credit as a character and how his game revived the FE series so they can screw themselves for all I care.

I have to admit, I find it odd how you completely dismiss any and all Roy haters, despite them having perfectly valid reasons to hold their opinion, while proceeding to hate on Corrin for similar reasons. Ever wonder how many fans of Isaac or Wolf look at Roy and wish he could be cut to make room for their character?

Frankly, I think we have to admit that most of us in this debate hold some bias in favor of our respective characters. There's an emotional side to this that doesn't really respond well to logic, I think.

 

[Aife]

Bayonetta I also didn't like and i'm pretty skeptical about. Not that I don't think she wasn't the #1 choice for Europe but by how she was selected. Kinda odd that he pointed to Europe as the reason for her conclusion. The fact that we don't know anything else about the Ballot is also very suspicious. Not throwing accusations here but it sounds like Sakurai did a lot of nitpicking with the Ballot.

She was also in the top 5 of america's choices.
there's still missing information but there's literally no other way to determine the ballot winners. Also he literally could be telling the truth about the "number 1 world wide" choice, like speaking in averages compared to everything else.

I guess you don't have to trust Sakurai if you really feel that way but it feels like part of that distrust is coming from Corrin's inclusion pissing you off. No offense.

 

[Seanp12]

You don't know that Sakurai ever rejected any characters in favor of Corrin. You're assuming that, just like you assumed that he hates Golden Sun because he didn't add back the Isaac AT. True, he could have chosen someone else, but that's true of every character on the roster that isn't an easy-bake clone.

If you would be happy with any original character besides an FE one, then, yes, you should put aside your negative feelings. Because no character has any more "right" to be in the game than another. It's just a mascot fighter. There are hundreds of deserving characters, and there are hundreds that don't get it. To exclusively hate on Corrin when he's only one of several others who are lucky enough to be in Smash is silly. ROB isn't even a video game character. Shouldn't you be mad that Sakurai added him back instead of "more deserving" characters?

And hinting at conspiracy theories about Bayonetta's win doesn't help your claim of neutrality.

 

[Glory Blaze]

Don't give a crap about people that hate FE6 and Roy. They don't want to give Roy any credit as a character and how his game revived the FE series so they can screw themselves for all I care.

Corrin did. Plain and simple. If you're going to sit here and tell me that she didn't then that's a load of crap. There were so many highly requested characters people wanted in the game and she got in over all of them. Sakurai even admitted she was in because of the upcoming game. I hate the rep argument as much as the next guy but in cases like this it should very much be a factor given that we already had a FE DLC character. He's clearly biased towards this series and it's disgusting.

Like I said before, I brought up Isaac not just because I wanted him in the game but to also kill this notion that we should put any negative feelings aside towards Corrin because of her moveset. Isaac happened to be a highly requested character who also has broad moveset potential and by the criteria set out by a lot has more ground being in the game than Corrin does. I really don't give a crap about moveset. DLC is about the character and not how they play. Maybe it is but the characters themselves are much more important than that.

Bayonetta I also didn't like and i'm pretty skeptical about. Not that I don't think she wasn't the #1 choice for Europe but by how she was selected. Kinda odd that he pointed to Europe as the reason for her conclusion. The fact that we don't know anything else about the Ballot is also very suspicious. Not throwing accusations here but it sounds like Sakurai did a lot of nitpicking with the Ballot.

>"we don't know anything else"
>"top 5 in US" flashes across the screen in large letters followed by "#1 worldwide among realizable characters"

So this character was THE absolute number 1 choice on 1 continent and the 5th most wanted character AT WORST (potentially fourth or even third or second most wanted) in another. This means that there were only 4 other potential character choices if we assume that top 4 in NA were the same as 2-5 in Europe. HYPOTHETICALLY: Maybe in NA, it was like

1. Wolf
2. Inkling
3. K. Rool
4. Bayonetta
5. Isaac

while in EU it was

1. Bayonetta
2. Shantae
3. Shovel Knight
4. Banjo and Kazooie
5. Phoenix Wright

For all you know, Wolf did not even have a higher number of votes than Bayonetta, you're simply making that assumption for the sake of your argument. Sakurai clearly planned to have 1 character come out of the ballot and a character that was somebody's #1 choice and somebody else's top 5 choice sounds like a pretty damn good deal to me.

 

[Ura]

I have to admit, I find it odd how you completely dismiss any and all Roy haters, despite them having perfectly valid reasons to hold their opinion, while proceeding to hate on Corrin for similar reasons. Ever wonder how many fans of Isaac or Wolf look at Roy and wish he could be cut to make room for their character?

Frankly, I think we have to admit that most of us in this debate hold some bias in favor of our respective characters. There's an emotional side to this that doesn't really respond well to logic, I think.

No, you don't understand. I'm talking about the people that hate on Roy for stupid reasons regarding him and his game. You don't see me hating on FE14 or Corrin's appearance in that game. I was sold on getting FE14 before the Direct happened that made me iffy if I wanted to buy the game or not because of what happened.

She was also in the top 5 of america's choices.
there's still missing information but there's literally no other way to determine the ballot winners. Also he literally could be telling the truth about the "number 1 world wide" choice, like speaking in averages compared to everything else.

I guess you don't have to trust Sakurai if you really feel that way but it feels like part of that distrust is coming from Corrin's inclusion pissing you off. No offense.

Well the fact that Bayonetta and Corrin came in the same Direct that also happened to be the end of DLC didn't do me any favors personally.

I'm jsut skeptical of his decision making. Bayonetta isn't even apart of the top 10 selling Wii U games which means less than 10% of Wii U owners don't play her game. The whole situation was like a massive WTF bomb really.

>"we don't know anything else"
>"top 5 in US" flashes across the screen in large letters followed by "#1 worldwide among realizable characters"

So this character was THE absolute number 1 choice on 1 continent and the 5th most wanted character AT WORST (potentially fourth or even third or second most wanted) in another. This means that there were only 4 other potential character choices if we assume that top 4 in NA were the same as 2-5 in Europe. HYPOTHETICALLY: Maybe in NA, it was like

1. Wolf
2. Inkling
3. K. Rool
4. Bayonetta
5. Isaac

while in EU it was

1. Bayonetta
2. Shantae
3. Shovel Knight
4. Banjo and Kazooie
5. Phoenix Wright

For all you know, Wolf did not even have a higher number of votes than Bayonetta, you're simply making that assumption for the sake of your argument. Sakurai clearly planned to have 1 character come out of the ballot and a character that was somebody's #1 choice and somebody else's top 5 choice sounds like a pretty damn good deal to me.

Wolf shouldn't even be in the Ballot. He's a character that should have been independent from the Ballot let alone being cut from Brawl.

 

[Glory Blaze]

Wolf shouldn't even be in the Ballot. He's a character that should have been independent from the Ballot let alone being cut from Brawl.

Why? What makes Wolf a special snowflake? Yes he had unique normals, but in terms of specials he was a clone (making him a semi-clone à la Ganon or Luigi or Roy), so what made him less deserving of a cut than, say, Pichu or Young Link? Or Snake, who was a 100% unique character?

 

[Aife]

Sakurai's wording even implied that she beat out any and all veterans as well (I think he mentioned veterans by name). If you trust what he says as true, then the only things left are unrealizable characters. (even that doesn't necessarily mean that she lost to some other 3rd party character, that's just your interpretation. It could just be sakurai clarifying what the ballot restrictions are in the first place.)
So that only leaves 3rd party characters remaining (the only thing even remotely close to unrealizable), and those 3rd party characters had to be within the top 4 in two areas to be able to beat bayonetta, that's an extremely small number of potential candidates, which I'd imagine were even avoided voting for because people weren't sure they could get them in. (this is before cloud came into the picture.)

its possible, but highly unlikely and we have no way of determining otherwise. I guess you could make a complaint to sakurai himself, but otherwise there's no way to confirm either theories, and given the small number of even possible candidates, I'm going to go with the more likely option.

 

[Ura]

Why? What makes Wolf a special snowflake? Yes he had unique normals, but in terms of specials he was a clone (making him a semi-clone à la Ganon or Luigi or Roy), so what made him less deserving of a cut than, say, Pichu or Young Link? Or Snake, who was a 100% unique character?

Because he's a character that people love from Brawl as well as from the Star Fox series?

Even Japan wanted him back evident with DLC polls. He outdid Roy in those polls who also got in. I'm a huge Roy fan but putting Roy in the game and not Wolf just isn't fair.

Not to mention the SF series has a high profile game coming out in the Spring that could benefit from the Smash rub more so than Corrin who's series is on fire regardless. Makes all the sense for him to return.

 

[Glory Blaze]

Because he's a character that people love from Brawl as well as from the Star Fox series?

Even Japan wanted him back evident with DLC polls. He outdid Roy in those polls who also got in. I'm a huge Roy fan but putting Roy in the game and not Wolf just isn't fair.

Not to mention the SF series has a high profile game coming out in the Spring that could benefit from the Smash rub more so than Corrin who's series is on fire regardless. Makes all the sense for him to return.

>Putting Roy in the game and not Wolf isn't fair
>I don't mind Roy being in, but this OTHER COMPLETELY UNIQUE CHARACTER HAS RUSTLED MY JIMMIES

 

[Darklink401]

"Maybe Sakurai will add ___ character for promotional reasons since he has _____ game coming out soon! that'd be cool"

Sakurai adds Corrin for promotional reasons since he has FE: Fates coming out soon, and people rage.

people are silly.


4realz talk tho, I completely support Corrin being in Smash, tho at first I was baffled at a new FE rep (not upset, just like ".....omg, really? o.o"

 

[Ura]

>Putting Roy in the game and not Wolf isn't fair
>I don't mind Roy being in, but this OTHER COMPLETELY UNIQUE CHARACTER HAS RUSTLED MY JIMMIES

I already addressed all that so i'm not going in circles here. Roy is a semi-clone that didn't detract much from dev time evident by the fact that Sakurai completed 4 characters in 7 months.

"Maybe Sakurai will add ___ character for promotional reasons since he has _____ game coming out soon! that'd be cool"

Sakurai adds Corrin for promotional reasons since he has FE: Fates coming out soon, and people rage.

people are silly.


4realz talk tho, I completely support Corrin being in Smash, tho at first I was baffled at a new FE rep (not upset, just like ".....omg, really? o.o"

Wolf is a 2 in 1 deal. He's a popular vet to return and is also happens to have a high profile game coming out that would greatly support his inclusion. Don't try to make that comparison.

 

[Glory Blaze]

I already addressed all that so i'm not going in circles here. Roy is a semi-clone that didn't detract much from dev time evident by the fact that Sakurai completed 4 characters in 7 months.


Wolf is a 2 in 1 deal. He's a popular vet to return and is also happens to have a high profile game coming out that would greatly support his inclusion. Don't try to make that comparison.

Except that argument doesn't make sense at all lmao. If semiclones don't detract that much from dev time and that's why Roy and Lucas could be made at the same time as Ryu and Mewtwo (both completely original characters, and Ryu's programming is probably a helluva lot more complex than Corrin's, who does not have any special inputs), then if Wolf was wanted/needed for advertising purposes then HE WOULD BE IN. As a semiclone, he would take just as "little" effort as Roy to put into the game.

Clearly Wolf is not all that and a side of fries - yes, people wanted him. Yes, those people were very vocal. But the fact of the matter was that he is very much a "realizable character", and Sakurai CLEARLY STATED that of all the "realizable characters", including veterans, Bayonetta was the WORLDWIDE WINNER.

If SF0 needed the advertising, he would be in. If he had been more popular than Bayonetta, he would be in. If he would be a FUN AND UNIQUE CHARACTER TO DEVELOP (cough cough dragon with a chainsaw sword) instead of a boring semiclone that would be tedious to program and playtest, HE WOULD BE IN. None of those things are true, however, so he is not in.

 

[Darklink401]

I already addressed all that so i'm not going in circles here. Roy is a semi-clone that didn't detract much from dev time evident by the fact that Sakurai completed 4 characters in 7 months.


Wolf is a 2 in 1 deal. He's a popular vet to return and is also happens to have a high profile game coming out that would greatly support his inclusion. Don't try to make that comparison.

Did I say Wolf?
I didn't.

However the comparison is there to be made, albeit both have other factors going for them.

 

[Ura]

Except that argument doesn't make sense at all lmao. If semiclones don't detract that much from dev time and that's why Roy and Lucas could be made at the same time as Ryu and Mewtwo (both completely original characters, and Ryu's programming is probably a helluva lot more complex than Corrin's, who does not have any special inputs), then if Wolf was wanted/needed for advertising purposes then HE WOULD BE IN. As a semiclone, he would take just as "little" effort as Roy to put into the game.

Clearly Wolf is not all that and a side of fries - yes, people wanted him. Yes, those people were very vocal. But the fact of the matter was that he is very much a "realizable character", and Sakurai CLEARLY STATED that of all the "realizable characters", including veterans, Bayonetta was the WORLDWIDE WINNER.

If SF0 needed the advertising, he would be in. If he had been more popular than Bayonetta, he would be in. If he would be a FUN AND UNIQUE CHARACTER TO DEVELOP (cough cough dragon with a chainsaw sword) instead of a boring semiclone that would be tedious to program and playtest, HE WOULD BE IN. None of those things are true, however, so he is not in.

Again, Wolf shouldn't be apart of the ballot. He's a vet and vets really shouldn't be apart of the ballot process. His inclusion should have happened through pre-ballot and the fact that it didn't is a travesty.

Does FE14 need the Smash advertising? No it doesn't. I mentioned that because like I said before, him getting in is a 2 in 1 deal. Popular and requested, hardly a clone, and comes from a series that needs representation unlike Corrin who's series had enough representation as it was before all on top of the fact that Star Fox Zero is one of Nintendo's biggest titles of 2016. Clearly, if he was a boring character then people wouldn't be asking for him. Your bias is clearly showing here.

 

[Glory Blaze]

Again, Wolf shouldn't be apart of the ballot. He's a vet and vets really shouldn't be apart of the ballot process. His inclusion should have happened through pre-ballot and the fact that it didn't is a travesty.

Does FE14 need the Smash advertising? No it doesn't. I mentioned that because like I said before, him getting in is a 2 in 1 deal. Popular and requested, hardly a clone, and comes from a series that needs representation unlike Corrin who's series had enough representation as it was before all on top of the fact that Star Fox Zero is one of Nintendo's biggest titles of 2016. Clearly, if he was a boring character then people wouldn't be asking for him. Your bias is clearly showing here.

"Vets really shouldn't be a part of the ballot process"

Dude, we're lucky there even IS a ballot process to begin with. Who are you to say who should and should not be subject to the ballot? Sakurai gave us mewtwo, and he gave us Lucas, and he gave us Roy, and Ryu, and Cloud and Corrin and Bayonetta and you are actually going to COMPLAIN that one of the above isn't something that YOU seem worthy? That's like if a guy gives you a Coke every day and then one day he offers you a Pepsi and you punch him for having the audacity t odo something that you weren't expecting even though he was under no obligation to give you the other 6 cokes in the first place

 

[TheLegendaryFoxFire]

I'd love to believe that but i'm not putting my hopes in that. It's just a travesty what happened on Tuesday. I want to try and not think about what happened but it's impossible to not think of it. Even if I choose not to buy these characters, i'm going to have to see them on FG and the thought of that just pisses me off. Call me salty if you'd like or whatever term you want but that's how it is. Why DLC had to end this way IJDK. It left such a foul taste in a lot of people's mouth and this isn't the way to do things.

I just pray to the lord Cheesus Crust that by some miracle Sakurai blatantly lied to us to keep Wolf a secret from us and that he's secretly planning to release him in April.

I say wait to Smash 5 (Which is going to happen. There is no way it won't) for new Nintendo characters. Imagine yes, K. Rool, Wolf, Inkling Etc would have been amazing as DLC...but really that would have been all they were DLC.

Now...when Smash 5 is shown and suddenly you get reveal trailers for the likes of King K. Rool, Inkling, Krystal, Wolf, Isaac, Etc. All characters that people have been wanting and voting for in the Ballot all suddenly are brought together in one go? AMAZING! It even makes sense when you look at the DLC we got.

Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta. All of them were Veterans/Third Party with only Corrin being the new Nintendo character, a character that would not make it into Smash be it not for DLC. For that reason alone I would be willing to bet that Smash 5 will be beyond amazing as really, all the characters left to add at this point ARE the likes of King K. Rool, Krystal, Isaac, Wolf, Inkling, Daisy. All characters fans have been waiting forever for and after the Ballot Nintendo and whoever is going to make Smash 5 knows it.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Although I've very much warmed up to Corrin as you all have seen, at first I was in shock that he'd pick another FE character. I knew he really liked the series, but I do like FE and am excited for Conquest so I basically said "Moving on!" after seeing him. Bayo sort of hit me in the gut, being the number one voted character and I still find that claim dubious. I can't say exactly why but I just find it hard to imagine her being the top voted character when her games didn't even sell that well, particularly in the continent she was supposedly the most requested in (Europe).

Surprise for Corrin, salt from Bayo is basically me.

I was talking to a co-worker recently about it and I mentioned how "it's crazy that Fire Emblem has more characters than Zelda", and we both talked about how Zelda...doesn't really have any meaningful characters to add beyond Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf and whatever other iterations they have (Toon Link, Shiek, and maybe even a future Beast Ganon). I guess there's Impa but a lot of her support is basically "Zelda Slot/Representation", rather than her own merits. FE just has a boatload of characters to pick from, same as Pokemon. That's the thing about games that change protagonists every game. Luckily for FE, Sakurai adores the series.
Now me I wanted King K. Rool because he's a mainstay villain in his series (up until recently) and I was intrigued by and gravitated towards the utter devotion of the Kutthroat Kampaign. I want to see more villains in the game and I love reptilian characters. Although at first before I joined Smashboards I didn't care for K. Rool whatsoever, I had no connection to the DKC games. My first choice was Ridley and we all know how that turned out. (Not going to lie, seeing something swoop in on Pit I had a brief flash of disbelief thinking it was Ridley, then I thought it was Medusa, then it was Bayonetta).

I think I would have walked out content if Wolf got back in. With him not being in when he had everything going for him, felt wrong, to me. I didn't even vote for the lupine semi-clone. Why Lucas and Roy but NOT Wolf? I will never understand. Maybe they can squeeze him out to promote SFZ, although it was pretty clear this was the last DLC. I always knew K. Rool was a longshot but no Wolf or Inklings left me dumbfounded.

With no Ridley, I'm still liking Corrin as basically being a dragon himself, which is my favorite thing ever. I intend to buy him but I'm not sure if I'm going to buy Bayo or not. No disrespect to her fans, but I just am not interested at all. Her presence just feels wrong in Smash to me. Far more so than Snake. Even Cloud feels like a fit. I can't shake it.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Well, look at it this way. Smash 4 was released as a fully complete game with an expansive roster of about 50 characters. Sometime later, we get the announcement that a single character, Mewtwo, would be added as DLC. Months later, once Mewtwo was ready, we get another character and the announcement of a Smash ballot to vote for our favorite characters. Months go by and we get more and more characters, as well as additional stages, music, and costumes, going quite well beyond what most of us expected (especially considering that, for a long time, DLC was only wishful thinking) Eventually, things wrap up with the #1 worldwide choice for a Ballot character.

And here you are complaining about not getting specific characters, specific stages, and brand new modes.

See what I mean?

It didn't have to end after one year. I understand Sakurai can't do smash forever but I do not want this to end with Bayonetta.

 

[topspin1617]

It didn't have to end after one year. I understand Sakurai can't do smash forever but I do not want this to end with Bayonetta.

It had to end at SOME point; how much longer were you expecting?

Remember that Smash 4 was released as a complete game; every piece of DLC is a bonus. They didn't have to do DLC at all.

And what exactly is wrong with ending it with the ballot winner? So what if the last DLC character is someone you don't PERSONALLY want?

 

[Seanp12]

Ura , the problem is that Roy isn't advertising this time around. He's a returning vet from Melee. Unlike Mewtwo, however, he hasn't starred in any game since Binding Blade (unless you count the einherjar in Awakening), and he's a clone of a character that we already have a clone of. Plus, he's not an easy-peasy addition this time, because he's more varied from Marth than before, has a new design, and, according to Sakurai, they couldn't use Melee visual assets to build from, which is why Mewtwo had to be made special. If you're miffed at Corrin for being DLC, then first you have to explain why you're not miffed at Roy.

Of course, you have referenced that by saying that veterans should get a free pass or something. Which is ridiculous. Should Pichu and Young Link honestly be given some kind of priority just because they're veterans? Because if veterans deserve free passes, that includes them too.

The problem is that every argument you have against Corrin requires that you make an exception for some other character. He doesn't deserve it as much as Isaac or K. Rool? Well then you have to explain why characters like ROB and WFT deserve to be there more than Corrin, because if it's a matter of "who deserves it," you have to start from the out-of-left-field characters first. Too many FE reps? Then you have to explain why it's a good thing that Roy is DLC, but Corrin is inherently bad because he's FE. Vets should come first? Then how do you explain to people that Pichu deserves what Corrin or any other prospective character doesn't? Your argument makes too many exceptions to be reasonable.

 

[GreenMamba]

I'm happy for those of you who are excited for Corrin but jesus it's not that crazy to be disappointed that the love wasn't spread out a little more.

 

[Seanp12]

I'm happy for those of you who are excited for Corrin but jesus it's not that crazy to be disappointed that the love wasn't spread out a little more.

Eh, I don't really mind others' attitudes of disappointment. After all, that's expected from some no matter what character is chosen. When disappointment becomes rage, though, that's a little much.

Personally, I'm not all that fond of FE's excessive number of characters. Particularly clones, even if Lucina is just a glorified costume. It gives some an excuse to hate on one of my favorite franchises, and I don't want that.

 

[SpandexBullets]

It had to end at SOME point; how much longer were you expecting?

Remember that Smash 4 was released as a complete game; every piece of DLC is a bonus. They didn't have to do DLC at all.

And what exactly is wrong with ending it with the ballot winner? So what if the last DLC character is someone you don't PERSONALLY want?

- Bayonetta was already a recent Nintendo property so this is kind of removing the most important point of a ballot.
- Bayonetta very clearly was not the real ballot winner in any regard, what with Snake, Shovel Knight, Shantae and Banjo being infinitely more popular.
- Sakurai said he wanted to make DLC for as long as he could
- Smash only came out last year, and while I know games usually finish up on DLC within the first year, Smash lasts approx 8 years and I think the only reason it's stopping is because Sakurai wants to stop working on Smash.
- we would all pay for it
- my dad is Nintendo

 

[Seanp12]

- Bayonetta was already a recent Nintendo property so this is kind of removing the most important point of a ballot.
- Bayonetta very clearly was not the real ballot winner in any regard, what with Snake, Shovel Knight, Shantae and Banjo being infinitely more popular.
- Sakurai said he wanted to make DLC for as long as he could
- Smash only came out last year, and while I know games usually finish up on DLC within the first year, Smash lasts approx 8 years and I think the only reason it's stopping is because Sakurai wants to stop working on Smash.
- we would all pay for it
- my dad is Nintendo

-Why? I don't see how that connects.
-You don't know that they beat her. You're assuming. It's possible, yes, but presumptuous all the same.
-Maybe he could only do it until February. The guy's been working almost non-stop since he started work on Kid Icarus Uprising. He can't keep doing it forever, and he's already worked on Smash for more than a year after it released.
-And why's that a bad thing? He's not hired just for Smash. He deserves a break from work, and even then, he should be allowed to work on other games too. It would be a crime to restrict someone as skilled as he is to just one game series.
-And your other two points don't appear to be too serious.

 

[TheLegendaryFoxFire]

- Bayonetta was already a recent Nintendo property so this is kind of removing the most important point of a ballot.
- Bayonetta very clearly was not the real ballot winner in any regard, what with Snake, Shovel Knight, Shantae and Banjo being infinitely more popular.
- Sakurai said he wanted to make DLC for as long as he could
- Smash only came out last year, and while I know games usually finish up on DLC within the first year, Smash lasts approx 8 years and I think the only reason it's stopping is because Sakurai wants to stop working on Smash.
- we would all pay for it
- my dad is Nintendo

"Smash last Eight Years"

Maybe not this time...NX is right around the corner. I see nothing wrong with Sakurai/Whoever porting Smash 4 over to the NX and adding more DLC to that version of the game later.

 

[fenyx4]

Admittedly, during the December 5, 2015 Super Smash Bros. 4-dedicated Nintendo presentation, the minute I saw Lobster Dude (also known as Ryoma) and company from Fire Emblem: Fates, my knee-jerk reaction was "OMG; I GUESS "CORRIN" IS IN.. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! MORE FIRE EMBLEM? Well, I guess we're in for a slew of veterans and newcomers alike", although sadly, the latter was not to be the case.. Anyways, after watching Corrin's trailer, I was really impressed with the implementation moveset..Corrin using offbeat body parts/draconic transformations for aerials (especially wings - although even as a dragon lover, I feel like that "dragon + transforming" is/are Corrin's least unique trait(s) aside from swordsmanship, given the appearance of draconic characters of Charizard, Bowser, Ridley, and Rayquaza; and the formerly-transforming characters of Zelda/Sheik and Samus), working with water attacks, Drill Rush being hilariously and coolly "performed" by a human, a "both sides" Counter move to aid in diversification, and the "piercing/immobilizing lance" move (Dragon Lunge, if I recall correctly), not to mention the nice design (although the "barefoot despite body armor" schtick is still annoying me; it just seems so jarring) - an amalgamation of these qualities made for an interesting character, in my opinion. Overall, I am not opposed to the inclusion and am even looking forward to Corrin.

However, when integrating Corrin's Fire Emblem franchise, that's when things get a bit murky for me..

Corrin's a salty announcement for some. Corrin seems to be a salty announcement for many. So I think I gotta step in Corrin's corner here. I like the guy. I'm gonna make a couple prefaces though.

1. I'm a massive Fire Emblem buff. I like to think of my opinions here as unbiased, but I'm just putting that out there for everybody
2. I was against the Roy DLC, even though he's my current main. I felt the game didn't need any more Fire Emblem swordsmen, it certainly didn't need another Marth clone, and Fire Emblem 6 isn't anywhere near relevant anymore. It didn't even see an international release, so unless you're a hardcore enough Fire Emblem fan (like yours truly) to get a translation hack (or if you speak Japanese, save yourself a step there), for the game, I don't know where all the love is coming from? I mean, I know it's from Melee, but why? He was bad. Why so much love from such a bad character?
   
3. I'm quite happy about Corrin's addition, even though I don't think Fire Emblem needed another rep.

With those three points out of the way, I'm going to deconstruct the biggest argument or two I see against Corrin

"Fire Emblem shouldn't have 6 slots."
Why not? It's an extremely well-selling franchise, of course they'd reward the series for doing so well. Not only that, but the character designs are generally pretty interesting, and they translate pretty well into Smash. Besides, Mario (this argument has the counter-point that Mario is Nintendo's flagship series) has 7 (if I counted right), and that's just guys with the mushroom logo. 11 if you include Wario, Yoshi, and the DK characters, who originated in the Mario universe.

"Ugh, really? Another anime swordsman?"
I'm gonna repeat myself here. Why not? Corrin looks to be unique enough in his moveset to distance himself from "anime swordsman" in the traditional sense here. They turn into a dragon. For what looks to be at least half of their moves. The only real "anime swordsman" trope Corrin seems to share here is the Counter, which I suppose is inevitable. Daddy Sakurai loves him some counters.

Now, I have one more argument left that I'm gonna hit, but these two have a central theme. Corrin is unique enough in his moveset that the upper two arguments do not apply. I don't see Marth turning into a dragon over here. He's not a clone. In this wave of DLC, not a single clone has been released. I think if nothing else, we should all appreciate that simple fact.

"Corrin is the reason X character didn't make it!"
No he's not. It's not like Nintendo was held by some invisible force to select Corrin versus (Geno, Inkling, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Shrek, Goku, Shadow the Hedgehog, Walter White, Wonder Red, Spike Spiegel, etc etc). I guarentee that X character had the same chance of making it in regardless of Corrin's inclusion. Don't be mad at the character because he's not who you wanted in.

That's all I got for now. Let's hear some comments, concerns, maybe some points against my arguments. I'd love that.

1 - As a preface, "videogame sales" aren't the sole factor in character inclusion, although I feel that they bear some weight, given that they tie into popularity and relevancy, at least a little. In any case, (and "inb4 Wikipedia") the Fire Emblem franchise as a whole fails to even make this "list of best-selling videogame franchises" (even the Barbie franchise outsells it - a fact which is largely irrelevant for this post but got a chuckle out of me ) and only one game (Fire Emblem: Awakening, of course) even manages to attain notability on this "list of best-selling individual videogames" - compare to Donkey Kong (which I'm using mainly because of how King K. Rool's perceived "exclusion" is a recurring thing and how he has at least gained placing on a few unofficial "fan polls"), which not just gets listed on the former list rather handily but has 7 games (Donkey Kong 1981-Arcade, Donkey Kong Country 1 and Donkey Kong Country 2, Donkey Kong 64, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Donkey Kong Country Returns (and the 3DS port), and Donkey Kong Jr.) on the latter list. Going solely by sales feats, I really don't see how Fire Emblem should be "rewarded" with two characters (Robin and Corrin mainly being the 'rewards' due to having the most work for devising a moveset, since Lucina was intended as a low-effort alternate costume and most of Roy's and Ike's moveset/character work have existed already..and Marth kind of has to be there due to being the first fighter/representative.. XD).
Regarding "slots" (although I guess "development time" is more appropriate), I felt that Marth, Roy, and Ike would be sufficient representation for Super Smash Bros. 4, letting Fire Emblem have some deserved representation along with bringing back some general veterans. I wasn't too keen on giving Fire Emblem: Awakening "development time", but hey, the game single-handedly saved a franchise and had some interesting people, so I was perfectly fine with Robin's inclusion (with his implementation being particularly exceptional, netting more electric moves and a not-very-physical user). 4 slots/sets of reserved development time seemed fine for Fire Emblem, and didn't seem to be excessive...then you have Lucina who gained a "slot/slight development time" and here comes Corrin, who likely necessitated a good swath of development time and now causes Fire Emblem representation to encroach that of the flagship-franchises of Super Mario, Pokemon, and The Legend of Zelda. Meanwhile, some franchises with decent popularity, sales, and (debatable?) relevance (Donkey Kong, Golden Sun, and even the "Famicon Wars" series) still flounder without "proportional" representation.. Essentially, Fire Emblem does not warrant 5 (or with Lucina, 6) slots (regardless of "advertisement" or "throw-in" issues) at the stage of Super Smash Bros. 4; I would have primarily withheld Lucina and, as a last resort, Roy.. For Super Smash Bros. 5, I could probably envision 5-6 slots for Fire Emblem if Fire Emblem: Fates and future games do well. While Fire Emblem: Fates may have "~500,000+ units sold in Japan" already, that's not really much compared to a lot of other games that have managed to surpass the "1 million sales" mark in Japan alone, let alone worldwide.

3 - I would say that Corrin at the very least has the distinct advantage of "ahead-of-release advertisement factor" to boost his/her "chances" compared to a lot of other franchises' viable characters, so that could have helped him edge out and out-prioritize other characters. As far as I know, out of "feasible" franchises, only Star Fox (with Star Fox: Zero on the horizon of release) could be pitted in a similar situation; all the other franchises seem to be idling at the moment following recent or aged releases.

Honestly, it just seems like the timing is not in Corrin's favor, given the slew of other wanted characters and how he hasn't topped many polls as of late. Had there been 1-3 more DLC characters for Super Smash Bros. 4 (one of which may include Wolf) aside from Corrin and Bayonetta as the finale, the vitriol tiowards Corrin would probably be significantly less.

Also, the "anime" argument is dumb. Anime isn't an art style and Nintendo is japanese anyway, if people dislike "anime" so much maybe they should play that Cartoon Network smash clone.

I don't put stock in the "anime swordsman" argument either, although I would argue that the term "anime" can be representative of a particular art style that has developed (for what it's worth, Wikipedia has "Japanese-disseminated animation style", coupled with a few key characteristics, as the second anime definition following the traditional "Japanese-originating animation" definition), with many anime sharing the same visual conventions. I guess I would liken the usage to how the term "Disney" is used as a 'certain' art style.

Well first, no it's not, and this is a tired myth. The franchise as a whole has sold less than 8 million units. In twenty five years.

A port of a Donkey Kong Wii game outsold Fire Emblem Awakening, the best selling game in the franchise, in less time.

Fire Emblem is not a Nintendo top seller any way you want to try to spin it. The ONLY globally successful Fire Emblem game EVER was the early 3DS library title Awakening. If you want to call comparisons, Splatoon sold as much as Awakening's few years run in stores in MONTHS, on a console which undersold the 3DS by tens of millions.

Anyone arguing FE is some sort of new success and cashcow for Nintendo is delusional and refusing to look at actual data onwhat they're spewing. Nintendo has been trying to get Fire Emblem off the ground for 25 years and failed until Awakening, which was the first ever success, and so now they've finally got their foot in the door with it they want to shove it down everyone's throats as hard as possible while the iron is possibly hot. Smash has traditionally been the vehicle for advertising Fire Emblem by Nintendo.

And also, no it's not even popular in Japan by the way before anyone tries to spew that myth too, it has always been niche there as well.

And on to the second half of that absurd sentence, it should be "rewarded" for its sales? As I said before, its sales overall are negligible in comparison to other franchises, why aren't they being "rewarded"? Splatoon for instance is a recent franchise that stomped Fire Emblem in sales, why is it that Splatoon was then relegated to MiiFighter DLC while FE gets a SIXTH character as DLC? The idea that this has anything to do with sales beyond trying to make them grow is absolutely incorrect. If we were rewarding games based on sales the franchise with 8 million units sold globally over 25 years that gets its most popular games beaten by ports from other consoles is not really font of the line for reward in any sane system.

Corrin is literally nothing more than even more Fire Emblem shilling. Corrin is an advertisement. That is all. He is not an iconic gaming character, he's not a ballot pick, he's not a cult hit, the game he's in isn't even out in the West yet. He's Roy in Melee level shilling, except worse, because Marth and Roy wasn't the SIXTH addition of Fire Emblem marketing to Melee. If Smash updated each new Smash game with the latest FE protagonist, cutting the last and maybe keeping Marth as a legacy character, fine, but this is rampant promotional bull**** goes beyond anything we've seen from Nintendo before.


Actually he could be. Despite what you think, games don't just pop out of the sky. It takes a finite amount of time and resources to develop each new character. If those resources were not used on Quran then they would have been used on someone else. So yes, he absolutely did prevent someone else from being in the game. That is absolutely irrefutable.

This.

~snip~

Do you want to continue to be btfo with numbers, or should I stop?

I'm also glad they altered the female Corrin's design to be more similar to the male version, as their one difference in armour is really sexist and totally unnecessary. There's already 3 out of 11 female characters in this game that included design choices to attract the male gaze and so it's pretty great to see another female character that's taken as seriously as her male opponents.

Hmm; so that "skin showing near jagged black area on Female!Corrin" is what people have mentioned..looks hawt. Honestly, while I see how it could slightly sexualize the character of Female!Corrin, this design feature seems like a very small part of the overall design. While covering the area would admittedly be much more sensible in combat situations, it's not like Female!Corrin's ability/sense as a character is diminished; her promotional trailer clearly showed her being capable of kicking just as much butt (if not more butt) as Male!Corrin can. The showing of skin could even be perceived as a taunt of sorts that feigns vulnerability..I mean, if Shirtless!Shulk can be totally impractical and engage in combat with the mindset of "I don't even need any armor; my foes are still going to be defeated regardless!", I would think that a small nearly-unnoticeable area of non-feet, non-face skin being depicted when an otherwise-adequately-armored Female!Corrin enters the fray shouldn't be that much of a problem (not even accounting for the myriad of other beast-like Super Smash Bros. fighters that wear no sort of armor at all).

That's not true man. There's plenty of characters that I personally don't want that I would be fine with if they got in.

And ironically enough, this move has the reverse effect for me. Before the Direct, I was hyped for FE14 and was looking forwards to it's NA release. Now that Corrin is in the game as a blatant advertisement for the game, I feel like not buying the game because of my negative feelings towards the situation.

I felt exactly like your second paragraph at first (although it's not like I would be able to get the game at the moment even if I wanted to ), although I reconsidered as I don't want to completely discard one game (Fire Emblem: Fates) solely on one character from said game being included in a largely-unrelated different game (Super Smash Bros. 4). And the SSB4 Corrin development is already in progress regardless, so I might as well give Fire Emblem: Fates a fair chance and embrace Corrin (fortunately, he/she seems unique, nicely-designed, and fun to play as).

I was talking to a co-worker recently about it and I mentioned how "it's crazy that Fire Emblem has more characters than Zelda", and we both talked about how Zelda...doesn't really have any meaningful characters to add beyond Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf and whatever other iterations they have (Toon Link, Shiek, and maybe even a future Beast Ganon). I guess there's Impa but a lot of her support is basically "Zelda Slot/Representation", rather than her own merits. FE just has a boatload of characters to pick from, same as Pokemon. That's the thing about games that change protagonists every game. Luckily for FE, Sakurai adores the series.
Now me I wanted King K. Rool because he's a mainstay villain in his series (up until recently) and I was intrigued by and gravitated towards the utter devotion of the Kutthroat Kampaign. I want to see more villains in the game and I love reptilian characters. Although at first before I joined Smashboards I didn't care for K. Rool whatsoever, I had no connection to the DKC games. My first choice was Ridley and we all know how that turned out. (Not going to lie, seeing something swoop in on Pit I had a brief flash of disbelief thinking it was Ridley, then I thought it was Medusa, then it was Bayonetta).

I think I would have walked out content if Wolf got back in. With him not being in when he had everything going for him, felt wrong, to me. I didn't even vote for the lupine semi-clone. Why Lucas and Roy but NOT Wolf? I will never understand. Maybe they can squeeze him out to promote SFZ, although it was pretty clear this was the last DLC. I always knew K. Rool was a longshot but no Wolf or Inklings left me dumbfounded.

With no Ridley, I'm still liking Corrin as basically being a dragon himself, which is my favorite thing ever. I intend to buy him but I'm not sure if I'm going to buy Bayo or not. No disrespect to her fans, but I just am not interested at all. Her presence just feels wrong in Smash to me. Far more so than Snake. Even Cloud feels like a fit. I can't shake it.

I would argue for Vaati's inclusion for The Legend of Zelda, since he comes packed with transformations (as do Zelda/Sheik and Ganondorf, to an extent), makes liberal use of the wind element for a potential moveset while not reliant of weaponry, has appeared as a central antagonist in multiple The Legend of Zelda games, and manages to incorporate the The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker "Toon" vibe. I also feel like he does not seem as easily replaceable as other Zelda characters with his unique attributes (at least for the Zelda franchise)..

 

[JayMStone]

Corrin's moveset looks dope to me. My only gripe with 6 FE characters is they have more reps than Legend of Zelda, which I feel deserves several more (i.e. Midna, Ghirahim, Tetra, etc.) coming from someone that doesn't even play Zelda very much.

 

[Seanp12]

Corrin's moveset looks dope to me. My only gripe with 6 FE characters is they have more reps than Legend of Zelda, which I feel deserves several more (i.e. Midna, Ghirahim, Tetra, etc.) coming from someone that doesn't even play Zelda very much.

Part of the problem is that Zelda, like Metroid, doesn't have many recurring characters, even though there are some. Granted, FE has almost no recurring characters, but that means that their standard of all-star is different from other series. Pokemon and Earthbound are the same way. But with Zelda, as long as you have the Triforce characters, you basically have the series well-represented. Sure, there are other possibilities, but when none of them (except maybe Impa) are likely to reappear in a mainline Zelda game, there's not much incentive.

But there are no real rules about Smash anyway. I gave up on that after Cloud was announced. The only real standard is whether Sakurai thinks they could have a fun moveset or not. Which, unfortunately, is why Ridley, my favored character, is impossible until either a new director gets to choose characters or until Sakurai has some spark of inspiration as to how to make Ridley work.

 

[Troykv]

I can't quote here, but that list has some data outdated (Fire Emblem has like 7-8 million sales right now).

And well... The Kamui inclussion is something that is bad and good to me...

In one hand, Corrin is advertising for a game that I have mixed opinions about it, and show us how recency actually care that too much...

But in other hand, this new AT least let me hope to try to revive the character that I really want in Smash... Because Sakurai likes characters with good design a interesting potential.

It's funny... Yesterday I had a bad feel with this new, but now I can say it a bright...

Still, I don't have intentions to buy him/her anyway, I don't really want to support Fates in any way.







And yeah, I don't really care about repping reps.

 

[MacSmitty]

I'm kinda iffy about Corrin, but I'll say this, it could've been worse. If instead of Corrin it were say, another Mario rep, people would've flipped their ****.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Hmm; so that "skin showing near jagged black area on Female!Corrin" is what people have mentioned..looks hawt. Honestly, while I see how it could slightly sexualize the character of Female!Corrin, this design feature seems like a very small part of the overall design. While covering the area would admittedly be much more sensible in combat situations, it's not like Female!Corrin's ability/sense as a character is diminished; her promotional trailer clearly showed her being capable of kicking just as much butt (if not more butt) as Male!Corrin can. The showing of skin could even be perceived as a taunt of sorts that feigns vulnerability..I mean, if Shirtless!Shulk can be totally impractical and engage in combat with the mindset of "I don't even need any armor; my foes are still going to be defeated regardless!", I would think that a small nearly-unnoticeable area of non-feet, non-face skin being depicted when an otherwise-adequately-armored Female!Corrin enters the fray shouldn't be that much of a problem (not even accounting for the myriad of other beast-like Super Smash Bros. fighters that wear no sort of armor at all).

It's like you're defending it...and you don't even know why...

It's a change I'm glad they made. It doesn't do anything for the character and it made no sense to make this change to a self-insert avatar character just because she's female.
It's also good for female players; now there is another female fighter to pick that can be taken totally seriously without having to acknowledge that parts of the character were altered for some fanboy's wet dream

 

[SpandexBullets]

"Smash last Eight Years"

Maybe not this time...NX is right around the corner. I see nothing wrong with Sakurai/Whoever porting Smash 4 over to the NX and adding more DLC to that version of the game later.

NX isn't the next generation. Nintendo have said a number of times that it's going to work alongside the Wii U.

 

[Deathcarter]

NX isn't the next generation. Nintendo have said a number of times that it's going to work alongside the Wii U.

They said the same thing about the DS and GBA so I wouldn't really trust their word here. Unless NX is purely handheld or mobile of course.

 

[Seanp12]

NX isn't the next generation. Nintendo have said a number of times that it's going to work alongside the Wii U.

I'm pretty sure that what they mean by that is that Wii U games will still be made for a little while during the next gen. It's sort of a mealy-mouthed way of saying NX will replace it, just not instantly.

 

[ForteX]

I'm honestly surprised that I'm not seeing more "ANOTHER ANIME SWORDFIGHTER" arguments and more just general confusion/frustration for why and/or how Super Smash Emblem: Waking the Dragons came to be. I actually watched the direct at a truck stop because I had to be on the road for trip, and tuned in maybe a few seconds late. The first thing I see is the new original the character from 8-4's next localization butchering project, and I honestly thought that I must have missed something actually meaningful in the minute I missed. I might not be the happiest in the world, but I'll look at it like this: I immediately recognized the character.

Yes I might be a fan of Fire Emblem, but I'm also a watcher of Nintendo Directs. In the months leading up to Awakening's release, even though I looked forward to it coming out, I couldn't tell you anything aside from "Marth's back, looks stupid, and you can customize your character", but thanks to the way they've pushed Fire Emblem Fates, I was able to recognize this guy. I couldn't have done that with Chrom or Robin. My first words upon his reveal were "Chainsaw sword.", ">a counter", and "he's the new Roy". Probably the first character ever put into Smash who I can honestly say I cannot stand the design of, though. Aside from the chainsaw sword, he looks so stupid. Put some shoes on, damn it.

I would be lying if I said I think his inclusion is wise in service of the fans. Fire Emblem fans have no attachment to him yet, and while he does a better job of Marth, Roy, or Ike of showing the diversity of fighter styles from the Fire Emblem universe, there were better main character options. I'm a diehard "Ephraim for Smash" sort of guy because God knows we need a lance fighter, and being honest, I think the majority of salt from me about Corrin's inclusion is that he very nearly fills that role while not being Ephraim. No love for everybody's favorite teal haired lord.

I'm not going to be one of those guys who acts like my personal picks of who should have been added were any more viable than Corrin. Geno just being a Mii costume really puts me in a foul mood, but I like what that represents in the grand scheme. I will say that the "big brother is now big sister! That's even better!" line from the trailer is comedy gold and really sums up the Smash community at large really well... for better or for worse. Folks who refer to dual-gender costumed characters exclusively as "her", in the immortal words of Bill Engvall: "here's your sign".

 

[iDaire]

I'm putting in my comments on this thread.
Look people. It is honestly damn near impossible to defend Corrin at this point in time with all of the evidence pointed against him:

1. Who the hell is this guy? Fire Emblem Fates didn't come out in areas outside of Japan, so no one could have possibly voted for this character, let alone even known him. The only people that could have voted for Corrin are people inside of Japan, which is insensitive of Sakurai considering that North America and Europe are giant parts of his game's fanbase and to ignore their requests to bring back fan-favorite characters and substitute them with someone who isn't even out in these areas yet is just completely wrong.
2. Another swordfighter. All three of the characters that were announced in the final video presentation are swordfighters to some degree. We have a lot more people that we could have brought back into the game and that could've been much more hype and worth playing. However, we got another swordfighter. Their playstyles don't deviate that much (with the exception of Robin, who is more of a projectile character than a swordfighter). Why do we have to continue to be subject to this constant streak of swordfighter characters when we could have gotten another playstyle to test out?
3. Another Fire Emblem character. My favorite games are Fire Emblem Awakening and Fire Emblem Sacred Stones, and even I wasn't hype for this character. We didn't need another Fire Emblem character.
4. Moveset isn't that impressive. What do we have here? A bi-directional Roy Up B, bi-directional Lucina Down B, a projectile I don't see myself using ever because it looks easily blocked and punished (and the reward for hitting someone isn't that massive. A small amount of paralyze frames that seem to ware off at the exact same time Corrin's Neutral B wares off isn't really that much of a reward. If the Side-B doesn't go through shield, it's trash. Also, the entire trailer, I never saw his up or down smash.
5. Not visually impressive. This is more opinionated, but it can't be only me that feels that this character is even more boring than Robin who is already in Smash 4. He can turn into a dragon? So does Ganandorf in his final smash. Awesome looking sword? Cloud has one of those too. What distinguishes him from the other swordfighters in this game besides his name and his pseudo-dragon transformations? He doesn't even transform into a full-dragon outside of his counter and final smash.
6. Trailer wasn't impressive in the least. At the very end, it showed him fighting all of the other Fire Emblem characters, which has become a cliché for character reveals in this series at this point.

I'll state this again. I love Fire Emblem, but this was zero hype. Bayonetta wasn't even hype. This is my input.

 

[Glory Blaze]

I'm putting in my comments on this thread.
Look people. It is honestly damn near impossible to defend Corrin at this point in time with all of the evidence pointed against him:

1. Who the hell is this guy? Fire Emblem Fates didn't come out in areas outside of Japan, so no one could have possibly voted for this character, let alone even known him. The only people that could have voted for Corrin are people inside of Japan, which is insensitive of Sakurai considering that North America and Europe are giant parts of his game's fanbase and to ignore their requests to bring back fan-favorite characters and substitute them with someone who isn't even out in these areas yet is just completely wrong.
2. Another swordfighter. All three of the characters that were announced in the final video presentation are swordfighters to some degree. We have a lot more people that we could have brought back into the game and that could've been much more hype and worth playing. However, we got another swordfighter. Their playstyles don't deviate that much (with the exception of Robin, who is more of a projectile character than a swordfighter). Why do we have to continue to be subject to this constant streak of swordfighter characters when we could have gotten another playstyle to test out?
3. Another Fire Emblem character. My favorite games are Fire Emblem Awakening and Fire Emblem Sacred Stones, and even I wasn't hype for this character. We didn't need another Fire Emblem character.
4. Moveset isn't that impressive. What do we have here? A bi-directional Roy Up B, bi-directional Lucina Down B, a projectile I don't see myself using ever because it looks easily blocked and punished (and the reward for hitting someone isn't that massive. A small amount of paralyze frames that seem to ware off at the exact same time Corrin's Neutral B wares off isn't really that much of a reward. If the Side-B doesn't go through shield, it's trash. Also, the entire trailer, I never saw his up or down smash.
5. Not visually impressive. This is more opinionated, but it can't be only me that feels that this character is even more boring than Robin who is already in Smash 4. He can turn into a dragon? So does Ganandorf in his final smash. Awesome looking sword? Cloud has one of those too. What distinguishes him from the other swordfighters in this game besides his name and his pseudo-dragon transformations? He doesn't even transform into a full-dragon outside of his counter and final smash.
6. Trailer wasn't impressive in the least. At the very end, it showed him fighting all of the other Fire Emblem characters, which has become a cliché for character reveals in this series at this point.

I'll state this again. I love Fire Emblem, but this was zero hype. Bayonetta wasn't even hype. This is my input.

1. Corrin isn't from the ballot. Sakurai specifically says in the direct that he had been planning to include a character from Fates during development. Bayonetta is the Ballot character, not Corrin.
2. Not really a sword fighter. Yes, she has A sword, but her attacks use either her lance-like transformations or the lance and sword in tandem (Nair, Dsmash) with the exceptions of her 3 tilts, fair, and upair. She is closer to being a lance fighter, not a sword fighter, but to be most accurate she is a dragon who wields a sword as a sidearm.
3. The rep argument is dumb. She has a game coming out so they are promoting it. If there was a new Mario or Pokémon game on the horizon that featured an important new character, there would be a new Mario or Pokémon character. If you can't get hyped for a character who is a dragon with a chainsaw sword because her series already has representation, that's a you problem.
4. You're trying too hard to relate her moves to other characters. Her back air is unique as a recovery move, her neutral b gives her a zoning tool, her sideb looks incredibly deep potential-wise, her fsmash HAS A HITBOX WHILE IT CHARGES, etc. (also we see both the down and up smash in the more detailed presentation after the trailer: up is an upward thrust with 2 lances, one on either side, down thrusts forward with a lance and backwards with Yato)
5. Literally just you being subjective. I could say I find her extremely visually impressive (which I do), and now we have a stalemate because neither of our opinions is worth more than the other's.
6. Again, literally doesn't matter and is all opinion. I thought it did a good job of showing off the character while still leaving some Easter eggs (the fsmash charge hitbox) for trailer analysts, and i thought the scene from fates followed by the running commentary from the royals was quite funny.