An Entire Thread in Defense of Corrin

[Essora]

Corrin's a salty announcement for some. Corrin seems to be a salty announcement for many. So I think I gotta step in Corrin's corner here. I like the guy. I'm gonna make a couple prefaces though.

1. I'm a massive Fire Emblem buff. I like to think of my opinions here as unbiased, but I'm just putting that out there for everybody
2. I was against the Roy DLC, even though he's my current main. I felt the game didn't need any more Fire Emblem swordsmen, it certainly didn't need another Marth clone, and Fire Emblem 6 isn't anywhere near relevant anymore. It didn't even see an international release, so unless you're a hardcore enough Fire Emblem fan (like yours truly) to get a translation hack (or if you speak Japanese, save yourself a step there), for the game, I don't know where all the love is coming from? I mean, I know it's from Melee, but why? He was bad. Why so much love from such a bad character?
   
3. I'm quite happy about Corrin's addition, even though I don't think Fire Emblem needed another rep.

With those three points out of the way, I'm going to deconstruct the biggest argument or two I see against Corrin

"Fire Emblem shouldn't have 6 slots."
Why not? It's an extremely well-selling franchise, of course they'd reward the series for doing so well. Not only that, but the character designs are generally pretty interesting, and they translate pretty well into Smash. Besides, Mario (this argument has the counter-point that Mario is Nintendo's flagship series) has 7 (if I counted right), and that's just guys with the mushroom logo. 11 if you include Wario, Yoshi, and the DK characters, who originated in the Mario universe.

"Ugh, really? Another anime swordsman?"
I'm gonna repeat myself here. Why not? Corrin looks to be unique enough in his moveset to distance himself from "anime swordsman" in the traditional sense here. They turn into a dragon. For what looks to be at least half of their moves. The only real "anime swordsman" trope Corrin seems to share here is the Counter, which I suppose is inevitable. Daddy Sakurai loves him some counters.

Now, I have one more argument left that I'm gonna hit, but these two have a central theme. Corrin is unique enough in his moveset that the upper two arguments do not apply. I don't see Marth turning into a dragon over here. He's not a clone. In this wave of DLC, not a single clone has been released. I think if nothing else, we should all appreciate that simple fact.

"Corrin is the reason X character didn't make it!"
No he's not. It's not like Nintendo was held by some invisible force to select Corrin versus (Geno, Inkling, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Shrek, Goku, Shadow the Hedgehog, Walter White, Wonder Red, Spike Spiegel, etc etc). I guarentee that X character had the same chance of making it in regardless of Corrin's inclusion. Don't be mad at the character because he's not who you wanted in.

That's all I got for now. Let's hear some comments, concerns, maybe some points against my arguments. I'd love that.

 

[Hark17ball]

My gripe was always thinking Lucina/ Dark Pit and Dr Mario should be just an alt not an entire character. Because now we have ANOTHER FE character.

I wanted Isaac from Golden sun buuuuut at the end of the day Corrin looks awesome, 58 characters is gigantic and I was being slightly selfish. I'm excited for her, maybe she'll be my 2v2 main :-)

 

[Essora]

My gripe was always thinking Lucina/ Dark Pit and Dr Mario should be just an alt not an entire character. Because now we have ANOTHER FE character.

I wanted Isaac from Golden sun buuuuut at the end of the day Corrin looks awesome, 58 characters is gigantic and I was being slightly selfish. I'm excited for her, maybe she'll be my 2v2 main :-)

I'm in agreement with you there, Dark Pit should have been an alt or had a different moveset, based on his staff. That would have been pretty neat. There's uh, nothing really you can do to un-clone Lucina, she straight up should have been an alt.

 

[Conn1496]

TBH I just feel that most arguments against Corrin are moot.

"Another swordsman!?" - they don't even take 25% of the roster... There are 58 characters, 12 now who are sword wielders. -and they all play pretty wildly different with the small exception of Marth/Lucina who play differently enough IMO.

"Another FE character!?" - the thing about this one is that there's 101 reasons to defend it. First of all, FE is a game with a pretty vast universe comparatively to say, Metroid or Kid Icarus character-wise. It's had a lot of main chracters who are gonna be memorable to one person or another, and the games sell well enough that... Why not? People will have joined the FE franchise at different points, so if they didn't add, say, Robin in, a lot of people wouldn't even like a Fire Emblem character, because their experiences have been with Robin, and they might want to play him/her as opposed to Marth or Ike. (Not just that, but Lucina getting her own slot was a complete fluke, so you can't even complain there are 2 from the same game, like, she was planned as an alt costume guys, get over it.) It's kind of like the Pokemon characters in a sense, because I know quite a few people who prefer certain Pokemon characters in Smash based solely on what gen they joined the series in. The same can really be said for Fire Emblem.
Plus, in previous Smash games, there's only ever been 2 FE characters at a time. Robin and Lucina made 4 (Just BC of the Lucina making it in by a fluke thing.). But, y'see, people obviously can't have been satisfied with that if Roy and now Corrin are making it in as DLC. It's just that simple. Roy made 5 and since FE's characters proved popular, they're adding in Corrin. I see no problem with that.

"His game's not even out yet!" - If memory serves correctly (and it rarely does, so... -y'know), it's only not out in the west, Japan has had it for a while IIRC. Not only that, but when Roy, a much loved (Fire Emblem) character debuted, he wasn't in any game, and people have come to enjoy him in Smash. It's just another situation where people think Marth debuted in Smash Bros. (There's a whole damn trope about this crud. Whaddya know?)

"Corrin replaced my character!" - Look, if anything, Bayonetta beat your character in the ballot - fair. You don't like Bayonetta? Tough [Smash], a lot of other people did, and she's gonna be awesome, too. NYERRR. (Plus, just... Y'know, "No." is a sufficient argument against this one TBH, don't be such a salt mine.)

I just feel a lot of people are bitter their character didn't make the cut. I sure as hell am about Wolf, but damn, I'm not gonna take that out on Corrin or Bayonetta...

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to being a tool and calling Corrin "Meta Marth" because he's just Marth with wings, right?..
AYYYY LMAO.

[Edit]: Oh, and uhh... Corrin is gonna be in the game after FE:Fates comes out in the west apparently... So... -the argument his game isn't out yet can suck it, TBH.

 

[Kumashock]

It's really funny to see people bashing the main character from a game that is already at 500k sales, even though it was released only in Japan, and saying "who is this" when they wanted indie unpopular characters.

Fire Emblem is a classical Nintendo franchise with multiple titles and heroes. This is the Nintendo All Stars game, all the Fire Emblem characters in Smash ARE Nintendo All Stars - you can hate them all you want, but that is the truth.
Corrin took no one's place, he deserves his spot more than any third party people are crying about.

I didn't get any character I voted for in the ballot (like Isaac and Lip), but I won't complain about a great (and fun) character getting in.

Also, the "anime" argument is dumb. Anime isn't an art style and Nintendo is japanese anyway, if people dislike "anime" so much maybe they should play that Cartoon Network smash clone.

 

[PK Gaming]

Don't sweat it OP

Let people complain about Corrin, because it doesn't really matter

Just enjoy her without worry

 

[Conn1496]

Don't sweat it OP

Let people complain about Corrin, because it doesn't really matter

Just enjoy her without worry

Umm, excuse me? Her? I think you'll find Corrin is a guy, just like Robin is female. *ahem* It's like you never played a FE game... *maximum hypocrisy*

Nah, I joke, I'm undecided on which Corrin I prefer. Chances are I'll actually prefer F-Corrin. :') (The armor just suits her better. -and what the hell is with M-Corrin's hair? Serious... Eurgh.)

-but yeah, I agree TBH, it really doesn't matter. Because... -y'know, Corrin is gonna be in Smash now, you literally can't change that. It literally doesn't matter.

Still, I think it's more about convincing people Corrin is not a bad idea and to give them a chance rather than about telling people they're wrong.

 

[Sonicjamareiz]

It's really funny to see people bashing the main character from a game that is already at 500k sales, even though it was released only in Japan, and saying "who is this" when they wanted indie unpopular characters.

Fire Emblem is a classical Nintendo franchise with multiple titles and heroes. This is the Nintendo All Stars game, all the Fire Emblem characters in Smash ARE Nintendo All Stars - you can hate them all you want, but that is the truth.
Corrin took no one's place, he deserves his spot more than any third party people are crying about.

I didn't get any character I voted for in the ballot (like Isaac and Lip), but I won't complain about a great (and fun) character getting in.

Also, the "anime" argument is dumb. Anime isn't an art style and Nintendo is japanese anyway, if people dislike "anime" so much maybe they should play that Cartoon Network smash clone.

funny thing is cartoon network PE has wavedashing lol

 

[C0rvus]

Why does this thread exist? Nobody needs to defend his inclusion. He's in the game, like it or not. You don't like it? Cry about it. You happy he's in? Great, I'm glad.

/thread

 

[Essora]

Eh, the reason I made the thread is because I like a good debate, that's really all. I'd even like to hear from some anti-Corrin people

 

[C0rvus]

Fair enough. Just sounds like flame war bait to me. I wish your thread luck.

 

[Essora]

Fair enough. Just sounds like flame war bait to me. I wish your thread luck.

I'd hate for it to turn to a flame war. But expecting reasonable debate on the internet is probably a longshot, now that I think about it.

Hm.

Oh well, hindsight is 20-20.

 

[The Hooter Shooter]

"Fire Emblem shouldn't have 6 slots."
Why not? It's an extremely well-selling franchise, of course they'd reward the series for doing so well.

Well first, no it's not, and this is a tired myth. The franchise as a whole has sold less than 8 million units. In twenty five years.

A port of a Donkey Kong Wii game outsold Fire Emblem Awakening, the best selling game in the franchise, in less time.

Fire Emblem is not a Nintendo top seller any way you want to try to spin it. The ONLY globally successful Fire Emblem game EVER was the early 3DS library title Awakening. If you want to call comparisons, Splatoon sold as much as Awakening's few years run in stores in MONTHS, on a console which undersold the 3DS by tens of millions.

Anyone arguing FE is some sort of new success and cashcow for Nintendo is delusional and refusing to look at actual data onwhat they're spewing. Nintendo has been trying to get Fire Emblem off the ground for 25 years and failed until Awakening, which was the first ever success, and so now they've finally got their foot in the door with it they want to shove it down everyone's throats as hard as possible while the iron is possibly hot. Smash has traditionally been the vehicle for advertising Fire Emblem by Nintendo.

And also, no it's not even popular in Japan by the way before anyone tries to spew that myth too, it has always been niche there as well.

And on to the second half of that absurd sentence, it should be "rewarded" for its sales? As I said before, its sales overall are negligible in comparison to other franchises, why aren't they being "rewarded"? Splatoon for instance is a recent franchise that stomped Fire Emblem in sales, why is it that Splatoon was then relegated to MiiFighter DLC while FE gets a SIXTH character as DLC? The idea that this has anything to do with sales beyond trying to make them grow is absolutely incorrect. If we were rewarding games based on sales the franchise with 8 million units sold globally over 25 years that gets its most popular games beaten by ports from other consoles is not really font of the line for reward in any sane system.

Corrin is literally nothing more than even more Fire Emblem shilling. Corrin is an advertisement. That is all. He is not an iconic gaming character, he's not a ballot pick, he's not a cult hit, the game he's in isn't even out in the West yet. He's Roy in Melee level shilling, except worse, because Marth and Roy wasn't the SIXTH addition of Fire Emblem marketing to Melee. If Smash updated each new Smash game with the latest FE protagonist, cutting the last and maybe keeping Marth as a legacy character, fine, but this is rampant promotional bull**** goes beyond anything we've seen from Nintendo before.

"Corrin is the reason X character didn't make it!"
No he's not.

Actually he could be. Despite what you think, games don't just pop out of the sky. It takes a finite amount of time and resources to develop each new character. If those resources were not used on Quran then they would have been used on someone else. So yes, he absolutely did prevent someone else from being in the game. That is absolutely irrefutable.

 

[Essora]

Well first, no it's not, and this is a tired myth. The franchise as a whole has sold less than 8 million units. In twenty five years.

A port of a Donkey Kong Wii game outsold Fire Emblem Awakening, the best selling game in the franchise, in less time.

Fire Emblem is not a Nintendo top seller any way you want to try to spin it. The ONLY globally successful Fire Emblem game EVER was the early 3DS library title Awakening. If you want to call comparisons, Splatoon sold as much as Awakening's few years run in stores in MONTHS, on a console which undersold the 3DS by tens of millions.

Anyone arguing FE is some sort of new success and cashcow for Nintendo is delusional and refusing to look at actual data onwhat they're spewing. Nintendo has been trying to get Fire Emblem off the ground for 25 years and failed until Awakening, which was the first ever success, and so now they've finally got their foot in the door with it they want to shove it down everyone's throats as hard as possible while the iron is possibly hot. Smash has traditionally been the vehicle for advertising Fire Emblem by Nintendo.

And also, no it's not even popular in Japan by the way before anyone tries to spew that myth too, it has always been niche there as well.

And on to the second half of that absurd sentence, it should be "rewarded" for its sales? As I said before, its sales overall are negligible in comparison to other franchises, why aren't they being "rewarded"? Splatoon for instance is a recent franchise that stomped Fire Emblem in sales, why is it that Splatoon was then relegated to MiiFighter DLC while FE gets a SIXTH character as DLC? The idea that this has anything to do with sales beyond trying to make them grow is absolutely incorrect. If we were rewarding games based on sales the franchise with 8 million units sold globally over 25 years that gets its most popular games beaten by ports from other consoles is not really font of the line for reward in any sane system.

Corrin is literally nothing more than even more Fire Emblem shilling. Corrin is an advertisement. That is all. He is not an iconic gaming character, he's not a ballot pick, he's not a cult hit, the game he's in isn't even out in the West yet. He's Roy in Melee level shilling, except worse, because Marth and Roy wasn't the SIXTH addition of Fire Emblem marketing to Melee. If Smash updated each new Smash game with the latest FE protagonist, cutting the last and maybe keeping Marth as a legacy character, fine, but this is rampant promotional bull**** goes beyond anything we've seen from Nintendo before.


Actually he could be. Despite what you think, games don't just pop out of the sky. It takes a finite amount of time and resources to develop each new character. If those resources were not used on Quran then they would have been used on someone else. So yes, he absolutely did prevent someone else from being in the game. That is absolutely irrefutable.

That's more like it! I hate echo chambers. While I look some up, I'm going to skip over the sales figures for now. I don't want to push a point until I'm ready to back it 100%.

Here's a point I have, let's see what you have for this:
Nintendo "shills" Fire Emblem so much because maybe Nintendo just likes Fire Emblem. If you were a game dev, would you want to produce content you enjoy? Sure you would. Not only that, but Fire Emblem characters in Smash have been met with an overall positive reception.

Also, "despite what you thing, games don't pop out of the sky". I never said that, buddy. I think you missed my point there, so let me rephrase it:
Smash 4's team chose Corrin. Sure, I bet they considered other characters, but in their thought process, Corrin won for a reason. So did each of the characters in the roster. Saying Corrin is responsible for somebody else not being included, you could blame anybody. You could say Wii Fit trainer is the reason you don't have Wolf. Bayonetta is the reason you don't have Isaac, so on and so forth.

 

[Iceweasel]

"An entire thread in defense of Kamui"

Yeah, you need it. Can't wait for the Wii U hacks to mature to a point where you can fully unlock the character select screen, since the only reason I'd play this character is so I can set my tag as "Senketsu". Of course, the joke is going to be lost thanks to 4kids8-4's translation team. At least Roy's introduction was at a point where no FE characters had been in a Smash game. We STILL don't have Isaac, K. Rool, or (insert favorite character here), yet we got yet another advertisement character.

"From this point on, it's pure fanservice*"
*except for this advertisement for a series with five other reps

-Masahiro Sakurai​

 

[The Hooter Shooter]

That's more like it! I hate echo chambers.

Some would like Smashboards to be an echo chamber.

Nintendo "shills" Fire Emblem so much because maybe Nintendo just likes Fire Emblem. If you were a game dev, would you want to produce content you enjoy? Sure you would. Not only that, but Fire Emblem characters in Smash have been met with an overall positive reception.

Uhhh yeah dude, that's pretty much what I said. The only reason they force it so hard is because they have been trying to make the franchise happen for more than two decades. If you're okay with just blatant advertising wedged into a game then that's up to you. It doesn't matter how much Nintendo happens to like the franchise, filling up any game with advertising is just bad game development. As for Fire Emblem being received positively? It hasn't. Maybe you just get that impression from this "echo chamber" hugbox.

Smash 4's team chose Corrin. Sure, I bet they considered other characters, but in their thought process, Corrin won for a reason. So did each of the characters in the roster. Saying Corrin is responsible for somebody else not being included, you could blame anybody. You could say Wii Fit trainer is the reason you don't have Wolf. Bayonetta is the reason you don't have Isaac, so on and so forth.

Yes, that reason is advertisement, as I said in my post.

The other characters were good uses of dev time. Shoving in a sixth advertisement for an already overrepresented franchise is not.

As I've said from the beginning, all of the overload of Fire Emblem in this game is simply marketing. Plain and simple. It's business and nothing more. It's not for the fans, it's not based on popularity, it is 100% promotion for other games. It's up to you to decide if you think spending development time and resources on six promotional characters for another series is good game development.

 

[Kumashock]

Yes, guys, the last Fire Emblem game outsold the last Kirby game, the last DK game, the last Metroid game, but it's not popular. The great reception and increasing sales means nothing.

It's Corrin's fault that your wanted character isn't in the game, he doesn't deserve to be in the Nintendo crossover even though we have Cloud - a Playstation icon - in the game.

Anyway, if we're going to use lifetime sales, we should remove Captain Falcon, Ness and Shulk. Oh, don't forget about Bayonetta too. Replace them with more "Wii" characters. The male Wii Fit Trainer needs to be a different character. The balance board should be playable too.

 

[Deathcarter]

Its just the typical whining of a community that has historically considered who is "deserving" more on personal preference than any sort of objective measurement. Look how much bile Wii Fit Trainer, Pac-Man, and the Miis got. Jigglypuff is known worldwide and yet many smashers wanted her cut. Duck Hunt and Bowser Jr. despite their fame got a lot of hate before their reveal in part because nobody could conceive of a good moveset for them and in part because they got a lot of hate in their own series. Oh and lets not forget the people who were so sure that Toon Link and Lucario were going to be removed because they were "irrelevant". You can even go further back to Brawl and remember all the salt for Toon Link, Wolf, R.O.B, and Lucario.

On the flipside, look at how many people seriously wanted characters like Shovel Knight, Shantae, Isaac, Bayonetta (who admittedly looks &%$!ing awesome!!!), Banjo-Kazooie and various one-off and/or c-list Mario or Zelda characters or cry over Ice Climbers, Roy, Wolf, & Lucas being cut while not giving a damn that Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Pichu were gone.

Yeah Fire Emblem is overrepresented but its not as if Corrin fills all 6 slots by himself. Roy is completely irrelevant and Ike's only relevant in spite of his 2 games rather than because of them. Lucina, ignoring the fact that's she's a glorified alt who's "slot" is blown tremendously out of proportion (this isn't Melee where the clones were a much higher percentage of the roster, any series not names Mario, Link, or Zelda was lucky to get a second character, and one of those clones was the friggin' King of Evil), is arguably more "deserving" than every other FE character including Marth going by sales yet got the most hate of the FE fighters by far prior to today.

Fact is Corrin is far from the most optimal choice for DLC (I personally was absolutely certain that Inklings were guaranteed before him/her) but all the hate will die down in time like it almost always has for non-clone characters; people just have better/more important things to do with their time and energy and Smash 4 is still a fantastic game despite the occasional disappointment.

 

[Essora]

Yes, guys, the last Fire Emblem game outsold the last Kirby game, the last DK game, the last Metroid game, but it's not popular. The great reception and increasing sales means nothing.

It's Corrin's fault that your wanted character isn't in the game, he doesn't deserve to be in the Nintendo crossover even though we have Cloud - a Playstation icon - in the game.

Anyway, if we're going to use lifetime sales, we should remove Captain Falcon, Ness and Shulk. Oh, don't forget about Bayonetta too. Replace them with more "Wii" characters. The male Wii Fit Trainer needs to be a different character. The balance board should be playable too.

From what I've seen, Awakening didn't outsell Kirby, but it was just barely under, by less than 10k sales iirc.
EDIT: No wait, it totally did outsell Kirby. 1.79m on Awakening, 1.78m on Triple Deluxe. And these games were both on the same system.

Fates has around 500k already, and that's before the international launch. With this info, I refuse to believe that Fire Emblem is the flop that Hooter Shooter would argue it is.

 

[Neerb]

Some would like Smashboards to be an echo chamber.

Uhhh yeah dude, that's pretty much what I said. The only reason they force it so hard is because they have been trying to make the franchise happen for more than two decades. If you're okay with just blatant advertising wedged into a game then that's up to you. It doesn't matter how much Nintendo happens to like the franchise, filling up any game with advertising is just bad game development. As for Fire Emblem being received positively? It hasn't. Maybe you just get that impression from this "echo chamber" hugbox.

Yes, that reason is advertisement, as I said in my post.

The other characters were good uses of dev time. Shoving in a sixth advertisement for an already overrepresented franchise is not.

As I've said from the beginning, all of the overload of Fire Emblem in this game is simply marketing. Plain and simple. It's business and nothing more. It's not for the fans, it's not based on popularity, it is 100% promotion for other games. It's up to you to decide if you think spending development time and resources on six promotional characters for another series is good game development.

Thank you for being one of the few people not recycling blatantly false information, or straight-up flaming like Kumashock up there.

As for everyone else: Corrin looks fun to play and the hate will quickly die down, but the fact is that FE got a completely unwarranted and surprisingly heavy bias this Smash gen (don't tell me Awakening's sales warranted it, Sakurai has blatantly stated he puts in extra characters because he personally likes the series), and the fact that dozens upon dozens upon dozens of popular choices from new or underrepresented franchises got glossed over so that a 6 month old Japanese-exclusive character could add to the FE pile is going to piss people off, especially since it was in the LAST DLC ANNOUNCEMENT EVER and now we'll probably have to wait over half a decade just for the minute chance of getting a rep that even a modest plurality of Nintendo fans actually wanted.

Corrin doesn't need a "defense," he's already chosen and he isn't going to leave. Just don't get too personally shaken by the people who wanted something better (or even decent) feeling like they need to vent for a while.

 

[The Hooter Shooter]

Yes, guys, the last Fire Emblem game outsold the last Kirby game, the last DK game, the last Metroid game, but it's not popular. The great reception and increasing sales means nothing.

It's funny you should say that, because while the latest DK and Kirby games on the poor selling Wii U didn't outsell Awakening that we know of, the latest DK and Kirby games on the 3DS did, and in less time. Funny thing, isn't it? It's almost as if the popularity of the console affects the popularity of the games.

Oh and it's funny you mentioned Donkey Kong, because Donkey Kong is Nintendo's fifth best selling franchise of all time and remains popular to this day to the point that he, like Mario, has transcended video games and become a part of Western popular culture at large, being literally one of the top ten, if not top five iconic video game characters of all time with the likes of Mario and Pac Man. He sits at two characters.

Oh and it's also funny you mention increasing sales, because you're marking a trend based on one point of data by doing so. Just because one of the latest games in the franchise sold more than the game before it, that does not statistically translate to "increasing sales". Predicting a trend in numbers based on one instance is what's known as "statistical fail". Nice try though.

It's Corrin's fault that your wanted character isn't in the game, he doesn't deserve to be in the Nintendo crossover even though we have Cloud - a Playstation icon - in the game.

You summed it up really well here. Corrin took finite time and resources the dev team could have spent on other characters, true. And he doesn't deserve to be in the game while an icon of one of the biggest gaming franchises of all time does, a Square Enix character, a company which has as much history with Nintendo as Capcom and Sega. Good point.

Anyway, if we're going to use lifetime sales, we should remove Captain Falcon, Ness and Shulk. Oh, don't forget about Bayonetta too. Replace them with more "Wii" characters. The male Wii Fit Trainer needs to be a different character. The balance board should be playable too.

In reverse order:

2. Why would you want characters to be directly proportionally represented by their sales numbers in Smash Brothers? Or do you just think you're being cheeky and only pretending to have dumb demands to do so? Literally no-one is saying that characters should be directly proportionally represented in Smash by sales numbers, so please don't bother strawmanning this, it only makes you look bad.

1. F Zero, Mother, Xenoblade, and Bayonetta don't have six characters in the game. Their representation in Smash is proportional to a balance between popularity, legacy, and significance in Nintendo history, something that cannot be said of the Fire Emblem franchise's absolutely overwhelmingly disproportionate representation. However if you want to play this numbers game, it's your choice.

Fire Emblem - 8million units sold - 15 games - 6 characters - average sales per game 533k (thanks Awakening and Monsh? no Nazo!)
F-Zero - 6million units sold - 9 games - 1 character - average sales per game 666k
Mother 2 and 3, stats for 1 weren't kept track of - 1.4million units sold, ballpark even 2million if including Mother, and then who knows how much more after it became the third most popular eshop title after its recent release, but we won't even count that - 3 games - 2 characters - average sales per game 466k
Xenoblade Chronicles - 1.42million units sold - 3 games - 1 character - average sales per game 473k

Hmmm, what an interesting trend, it seems like even though other characters are comparably consistently as popular as Fire Emblem or more, they have four to five less characters in Smash Brothers than Fire Emblem does... Now what on Earth could have caused this I wonder? Why oh why would this series, Fire Emblem, which over its lifetime is about as consistently or less consistently popular than other similarly unpopular Nintendo franchises, have far far far more representation in Smash Brothers? On the level of franchise juggernauts like Pokemon? Could it possibly be that Nintendo just wants to advertise Fire Emblem because for whatever reason it is their special pet project franchise and so gets extremely exceptional special treatment and has been getting it ever since Melee showing that Nintendo using Smash to shill this series has been going on and getting more intense now for fifteen years? Nah, no, that just makes too much sense, right?

Do you want to continue to be btfo with numbers, or should I stop?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I've never understood the whole thing with "ew, another animu swordsman", its to be perfectly honest, really stupid.

Good stuff Essora .

 

[Dre89]

Eh, the reason I made the thread is because I like a good debate, that's really all. I'd even like to hear from some anti-Corrin people

The frustration comes from the fact that a lot of dev time was spent on a 6th FE character when there are many highly requested first parties from underrepresented franchises. FE now has as much as rep as Pokemon and more than Zelda, yet it only has like 5 mil sales the last I heard.

We know Sakurai personally likes the series, so many people think it's bias.

It also contradicts his claim that 'from now on all DLC will be fanservice'. This is a character no one asked for and is clearly being used to market the new FE game to the west. It's not fan service at all.

The moveset looks awesome but this is a character game. The appeal of Smash over other fighters is the fantasy of pitting your Nintendo heroes up against each other. This isn't a character that people wanted to do that with.

Movesets are important but the problem is that if you pick a less requested character, people still complain about the lack of characters like K. Rool and Wolf. But if those characters got in the masses wouldn't be complaining about the lack of Corrin. Putting in characters like K.Rook and Wolf please far more people than characters like Corrin do.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Relevancy and recency as a whole plays a big role in character selection and Corrin is quite a popular FE Fates character in Japan so in a way, it is fanservice, just pandering to the Japanese and the few people who have played FE Fates in the west; and as such I can see why Sakurai would want to add him/her in the first place.

Then again, having more first party characters like Wolf and K. Rool would be better in terms of general fanservice that most of us were assuming he was talking about.

 

[Essora]

I'll be crucified for saying it, but I was hoping Wolf wouldn't be in. For the same reason I didn't want Roy in. He'd be a 3rd clone (semi-clone at best). When you have three characters who all behave so similarly, it becomes redundant.

As somebody who mains Roy, I still think his addition in Smash 4 is redundant because of that. The only reason I do main him is that he performs better (and I perform better and overall have more fun with him) than Marth/Lucina. I still totally disagree with his inclusion on a basis of redundancy and lack of relevance.

Corrin, thankfully, being the newest FE character, as well as having a unique moveset (and hopefully tournament viability!), I think is a good use of putting that Fire Emblem logo on another character slot from a standpoint of what's happening right now in the world of Nintendo.

 

[Aife]

There is no question the main reason Sakurai choose Corrin was mostly for the sake of advertisement. I mean, he literally just said in a previous interview that the biggest thing that goes into new character slots is industry trends, aka what will benefit the company most at that particular time.
I'm not particularly salty tho, even discounting the attributes about him I like, I'm not all that bothered by the "forced" advertising. I'm pretty desensitized to the whole advertisement shebang, and i appreciate the effort put in regardless of the choice of character and in everything else in the game. I also don't feel like claiming its 100% advertisement is fair either. (saying 100% anything tends to rub me the wrong way.), but my desire to avoid such a debate will probably just leave it at that statement alone.

EDIT: wait awakening outsold triple deluxe?

I'm in god damn disbelief. I ****ing loved triple deluxe. I need to go cry now, and then probably wave how good deluxe is in like everybody's to soak up my sorrow.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Burn in hell Sakurai
And yes i litreally just came here to say that
Never hated him or a character so much b4 more than Rosa

 

[Mr.Seven]

I'll be crucified for saying it, but I was hoping Wolf wouldn't be in. For the same reason I didn't want Roy in. He'd be a 3rd clone (semi-clone at best). When you have three characters who all behave so similarly, it becomes redundant.

As somebody who mains Roy, I still think his addition in Smash 4 is redundant because of that. The only reason I do main him is that he performs better (and I perform better and overall have more fun with him) than Marth/Lucina. I still totally disagree with his inclusion on a basis of redundancy and lack of relevance.

Corrin, thankfully, being the newest FE character, as well as having a unique moveset (and hopefully tournament viability!), I think is a good use of putting that Fire Emblem logo on another character slot from a standpoint of what's happening right now in the world of Nintendo.

As someone who mailed Wolf in Brawl, I agree with you. Although his move set was plenty different from Fox and Falco (dem claws), I would much prefer someone who is 100% new to Smash with a unique move set.

As for Corrin, I'll admit I'm not hyped for him. This is mainly due to the oversaturation of FE characters, as I thought 4 was enough. Though Corrin has uniqueness to him, and his transformation into a dragon is definitely interesting. I know full-well why he was included, and it doesn't bother me, as it was only for one character. Although I play Roy a lot, I'm still slightly against his inclusion because of the fact that he's a semi-clone. If all DLC were just clones, don't expect me to buy it.

 

[Renvalt]

Corrin's unique in that he's like Marth, yet isn't. He's also like Robin, yet isn't.

He's like Marth in that he's technically a blueblood (character of noble birth), yet that blood is tainted (half-dragon child - neither Marth nor Lucina can claim that, and Roy can only claim that if Ninian is the mommy).

Continuing with that second point, he's like Robin in that both are draconian (the difference being that Robin is but a human vessel for a Dragon, while Corrin is actually a Human with the blood of a Dragon), but different in that one's an amnesiac and the other isn't.

If you really want to split hairs, Ike's the only "real" unique member of the FE cast - born of commoner's stock, but got elevated to the People's Champ because he decided to shut up and get **** done. Also, he wields a two-hander and has the trust and respect of at least four clans of furries (because he bothers to see them like he sees everyone else - as just everyday people tryin' to live life).

I've never understood the whole thing with "ew, another animu swordsman", its to be perfectly honest, really stupid.

I bolded the key point that I'm going to use to describe why "animu" or "anime" gets used as a derogatory insult with the following explanations (click the spoiler of the one you want to read):

Spoiler: Long (and Possibly) Pointless

See, back in the day, anime had quality (or so the story goes). There wasn't an excess of Gary Stus and Mary Sues who could literally win any and every fight and score all the ladies and gents (a common excuse is that if a protag is "anime", then he's automatically a harem lord because every woman apparently wants in his pants - which is completely false when you look at it further).

But because these "godmode pimp heroes" are so popular despite their flaws (which, really, if you examined those flaws further you could debate endlessly how "flawed" they really are or not, but that's neither here nor there), there's the idea that anyone who likes these characters is somehow lacking in intelligence and loyalty. Lacking in intelligence because they clearly can't see how unrealistic these "self-insert gods" are, and lacking in loyalty because most apparently will not or do not like earlier entries in the genre and/or series (which reeks of ageist supremacy, taken to a rather upsetting extreme).

Therefore, in saying "Ew, not another animu swordsman", what they are REALLY saying is this: "Ewww, now I'm gonna have to share this game with people I consider trashy filth, people that should be purged or otherwise corrected if they want to even think of breathing in the same room as I, who am considered superior because I've been here longer and have more loyalty".

Furthermore, these people tend to think that liking a character because of trends is merely temporary character love - once something more popular comes out, they will jump ship and start liking it. These people fear this shallow, unintelligent mass of fans because trying to accept differences means you have to embrace your own dislikes - a form of weakness for many. And weakness = inferiority, and that pretty much equals "you don't belong here".

Spoiler: Short and (Somewhat) Sweet

TL;DR - They complain about it because they actually have to bother having patience dealing with less than savory newcomers, who may be harder to deal with than everyone else, and actually involves them using their goddamned people skills (which have been underleveled as **** from staying in their social cliques for so damn long).

------------------------

In the end, I like Corrin because he's the first Albino in FE's history, his garb is actually badass, he wields a Vajra Chainsword, he invokes the powers of Draconic Deer God (his "dragon" form looks less like a Dragon and more like a Xerneas impostor), and for what it's worth, his design has ample lack of Eiffel 65 in it (specifically "Blue" - I think I've seen enough blue default FE garbs to last me a lifetime).

I mean, at least it wasn't the pointless Sexist Deus Lord called Sigurd (whose game hasn't been released stateside whatsoever).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

11 if you include Wario, Yoshi, and the DK characters, who originated in the Mario universe.

Only Donkey Kong could be argued to be a Mario character as he is the only DK character that is heavily tied to the Mario franchise. Diddy, Dixie and K. Rool have far less history with the Mario franchise than their own franchise, so these three can't be considered unofficial Mario characters regardless.

 

[Turrin]

There's only one real response you need for the haters: what are you gonna do, take him out of the game?

"Oh man, another anime swordsman!?" - voted for Isaac
"Hey, I don't even know who the heck this is!!" - voted for Shantae
"He's just gonna be another semi-clone!!" - voted for Wolf (P.S. no hate for Wolf I voted for Wolf too)

Seriously, though. Pretend for a second he's not from Fire Emblem.
A freaking lance-battling shape-shifting dragon sub-human.
People are hating on him as a fighter simply because of his franchise label. He's ridiculously unique and smash hasn't ever had anything like him.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

On the flipside, look at how many people seriously wanted characters like Shovel Knight, Shantae, Isaac, Bayonetta (who admittedly looks &%$!ing awesome!!!), Banjo-Kazooie and various one-off and/or c-list Mario or Zelda characters or cry over Ice Climbers, Roy, Wolf, & Lucas being cut while not giving a damn that Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Pichu were gone.

Just because you don't personally like them doesn't mean there is anything worng in supporting them.

 

[Unclesatan]

in defense of corrin:

she has a game being sold right now and isaac, k. rool and geno do not

case and point. whether we like it or not.

 

[Altais]

I will admit, at first I was absolutely opposed to Corrin (known as Kamui at the time) being in Smash, since I felt he would just be another plain biped swordsman like Marth and Roy. But, after I learnt he was a Manakete that uses water, I IMMEDIATELY saw how he would differentiate from the other Fire Emblem warriors--and differentiate he did.

I'm just surprised we got a character whose game hasn't even been released overseas yet. [Shrugs] Then again, Roy's game wasn't released before Melee, was it?

 

[Tino]

Eh, I don't get the unnecessary hate Corrin's been getting since his reveal. I personally am excited to see him/her in Smash and Fire Emblem Fates is not even out in the U.S. yet. I don't give a **** what the haters say, I'm really happy Corrin is in.

 

[Zephil]

Its simple, I love FE and I am hype with Corrin but its clear that it is a marketing campaign as Roy was BUT it is a great campaign.

First, FE Fates is one if not the main 3DS game for the West during the first quarter of next year. The only other game that is really important for Nintendo in the first quarter its Star Fox Zero. The difference is that For that game, the main chars are already in smash and lets be real, a char like Wolf will not work as a promotional strategy for the game as it will be seen more as a Brawl veteran coming back and we still don't even know if he is going to be in the new game. Corrin is the protagonist of his/her game and because the franchise mostly use different protagonist in each game (except ike and marth mostly), its good to make the char more recognizable now before the game comes out. Hell the strategy worked in Melee with Roy, don't fix what isn't broken.

I can talk about other important games right now like Xenoblade X but first, if FE is niche, Xenoblade its even more niche and the protagonist of that game is not a appealing as Shulk was.

Second, the char is very unique and brings even more diversity to the roster. Think for a moment that Corrin was not from FE, the char itself have a lot going for him and while everybody is going crazy with Bayoneta, from what I have seen from the trailers, I think Corrin has even more potential, this is of course my opinion but I rest my case that the char is unique for the roster.

 

[Nah]

The reality is that salt was going to happen no matter who got in. Besides the fact that this is the internet and any time anything at all happens there will be large quantities of salt generated, there was a myriad of characters people wanted (and were very passionate about), and obviously not all of them can get in. So no matter what there were going to be people who's first choice was not going to make the cut, and so there would be a crapload of salt being thrown at at least one of the newly announced DLC character. Can't please everyone. Corrin was certainly not my first choice for a DLC character. Corrin was really one of the furthest things from my mind for possible DLC inclusion. I thought that Corrin would only have a shot at being in Smash 5, and as a Robin replacement at that. Hell, I thought that they would never put in a single DLC character that I'd give even the slightest of ****s about.

Everything about why this character or that one "should" get in or is "more deserving" is completely arbitrary really. It's not like Fire Emblem is the only series in Smash 4 with a strong bias either, or is the only franchise sort of using Smash as a way to advertise itself.

I will say though that I think they shouldn't have included Roy. 5 is a number people can stomach better, and Roy is irrelevant and offers nothing new.

 

[topspin1617]

I understand being disappointed that a character you want didn't make the cut; that's perfectly reasonable.

A lot of this hate is going over the top though. People literally wishing death to Sakurai... on another site even saw a post wishing death to everyone who doesn't hate Corrin's inclusion. To these people I simply say grow up.

I really don't see the point in whining about 6 Fire Emblem characters. That's really not many when you consider how many FE games there are and the fact that the cast almost totally rotates with every new entry. It's pretty silly to compare sales numbers with DK, Zelda, or whatever series because I really don't think that's a determining factor for what characters make the cut. Isn't it blatantly obvious that characters are selected mostly on their own merits rather than the popularity of their home series?

Yes, DK has been a big series for Nintendo. And King K Rool has been left behind by the series. Are people really shocked that he didn't make the cut? I mean I suppose it is surprising if you've convinced yourself that Sakurai cares about number of reps per series and correlating this number with sales figures... but if you convinced yourself of that you really only have yourself to blame. Picking a character because his series "needs reps" is a terrible criteria, and one that Sakurai thankfully is not a slave to.

Can people admit that they're only obsessing over series' lifetime sales because that argument supports the character they want? It's really amazing how segments of this community only consider convenient facts and swaps between caring about them on the fly... Wii Fit Trainer is still a horrible choice but we "need" K Rool "because sales"? Please.

But people actually want K Rool, sales is only a supporting argument!

I'm honestly suspicious of how "wanted" K Rool specifically was. A lot of arguments for him that I saw weren't actually specific to him. It's more like people said

1. We need more villains
2. DK needs another rep because sales
----------
Therefore we need K Rool.

That's not to say some people didn't really want him, or that he couldn't be an interesting fighter. But I feel like most people latched onto him using the logic above, convinced themselves that he was incredibly likely because of this reasoning, and raged when Sakurai reminded them that's not how characters are selected.

I say all of this as someone who would have liked K Rool (though I'm not like a DK megafan either).

As far as "too much FE", I kinda just want to say "get over it". As I said above, 6 really isn't a crazy number. And even then it doesn't feel like 6. Lucina is a glorified alt costume (and if her "taking up a slot" bothers you, adjust your priorities). Roy is a semi-clone and returned as a popular cut vet. Marth, Ike, Robin, and Corrin are an incredibly diverse set of fighters, and not enjoying them because they have the FE icon is ridiculous to me. And I'm not even a Fire Emblem fan (I don't dislike the series at all, I just haven't played many of them).

Let's be real: Smash basically has every character that could legitimately be considered a "Nintendo all-star" playable already. K Rool is not an all-star; MAYBE if this was 15 years ago or if he were in recent DK games. I'd argue Ridley is closer to deserving the title. I think people are vastly overestimating how iconic K Rool and others actually are.

And Corrin IS an all-star?

I didn't say that. All I said is that not adding K Rool is less surprising when we don't view him through the self-made lens of inevitability.

 

[alguidrag]

I'm see people crying because of Kamui, so I gonna say the same thing that I said to my friends: Cry now but NEVER use him or not cry now and cry when I beat you using him(because c'mon i see many people complaining because Robin, Roy, Ike and using they 1 week latter because some patch that make they stronger, all this cry is because the character they wants not make and they don't are brave enough to chanlege the bayoneta fans)


he deserves less than inkling and Isaac? YES
He deserves more than Shovel and almost all other indies?YES
half of people complaining about him will play him if he is broken?ABSOLUTELY YES
Remember FE have more than 10 games, and is together with nintendo i think since SNES
Kamui is going to be released in February(together with his game SO HE WILL HAVE A GAME WHEN HE DEBUT IN SMASH)
the fanbase of FE is huge because awakening(FE franchize almost die, Sakurai don't want this to happen, so he is trying to make the hatters like FE using a dragon)
PS: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT MAKE YOUR CHOICE AND DON'T BUY HIM(I make mine and decided to buy, and Sakurai chose him)

PS2: Remember the FE characters outruled almost if not ALL leakers and predicters( i never expect kamui appearing so early, and i'm happy with that, because c'mon what other dragon we have in this game?)

 

[PeejsterM]

I'm in agreement with you there, Dark Pit should have been an alt or had a different moveset, based on his staff. That would have been pretty neat. There's uh, nothing really you can do to un-clone Lucina, she straight up should have been an alt.

Lucina can reclass into Archer, and she also uses Nidhogg as a secondary weapon in STEAM. Just swapping out Shield Breaker alone for a projectile would make Lucina play much more differently. (In fact, there's a Project M mod that does this exactly!)

All I did was pull something she can actually do from her games, and now Lucina has actual differences from Marth.

Could also swap out Dolphin Slash for Aether.