An Actual Sonic Kill Setup?

[Trillion]

This occurred to me just now at almost 3:30 a.m., so flaws in my thinking may run rampant and this may just be a stupid idea or it may just be something that is so obvious that it's not worth mentioning.

Basically, think Buuman Trap for Sonic. If you are unfamiliar with it, then watch this video.

Buuman Trap

As you can see from the video, after a down throw near the ledge, using Dedede's down smash traps the opponent in a situation where no matter which way they roll, they will get hit.

The same concept can be applied to Sonic. If we down throw someone so that they land on the stage but near the ledge, then we can fox trot (if necessary) and charge the down smash for a second and let it lose as soon as they react. If they roll toward the ledge, they eat the downsmash, if they roll behind us, they eat the down smash.

If the opponent reacts by using a recovery attack, then depending on the percentage of damage that those attacks do as well as invincibility frames, they might still just eat the downsmash. Our down smash, uncharged does 12% on the first hit. I don't have much data on how much recovery attacks deal, but Toon Link's and Falco's apparently do 6%. So, worst case scenario is that we clash attacks if they start catching on to this.


At the moment, this is entirely theoretical since I haven't tested it, but it should be feasible, though possibly hard to set up and will require practice for spacing. It will of course be full on impossible if your opponent knows how to actually insta-tech the down throw.

So, thoughts?

 

[BSP]

If the opponent techs sonic's dthrow, this shouldn't work.

It might only work at lows. percents too since Sonic's Dthrow has actual growth unlike D3's. If they don't tech, it might work at low percent, but at high ones, they'll just slide off the stage most of the time.

 

[Tesh]

Yea DDD can do this because of how much range his Dsmash has and how he leans back to avoid getup attacks. Its basically sonic's fsmash+dsmash with the range, hitting both sides and the "evade and counter" effect.

You might be interested in looking up the thread on the ganon boards about power shielding getup attacks. There was alot of data about which side a getup attack hits first, out-spacing getup attacks with Fsmash and power shielding the slower ones on reaction. Sonic should be able to chase after Dthrow and pull off the same thing.

I can't remember using dthrow past like 140%, but I can see people easily sliding off the stage or just DIing up and regaining control before they even need to tech. worth a shot though.

 

[Trillion]

If the opponent techs sonic's dthrow, this shouldn't work.

It might only work at lows. percents too since Sonic's Dthrow has actual growth unlike D3's. If they don't tech, it might work at low percent, but at high ones, they'll just slide off the stage most of the time.

It will of course be full on impossible if your opponent knows how to actually insta-tech the down throw.

Yeah, got that first part covered. The funny thing is, that most people who don't play against Sonic regularly do not know how to tech Sonic's down throw.

I think it could be hard to pull off due to how far opponents move from it once they are in kill range, but on heavy enough characters I think that it has a nice shot at working. Even at low percents as a non-killing tactic, free damage is free damage if it works.

 

[Sonic-Rave]

I don't think this necessarily requires dthrow for this to work. Since this can't work at high percents anyway. I think it'd be more practical to use it to finish off a chain of dtilts or something along those lines but only if the dtilt causes a trip.

It's pretty situational but something tells me that doing this as Sonic could possibly never happen anyway.

 

[Tenki]

Sonic's recoil from D-smash is weaker, so if you use it exactly like he does in the video, it won't kill.

Now if you just run and screech stop, you can probably stop out of range for a getup attack, but far enough that you can stutter step forward enough to punish one - and if they roll towards you, just turn around and knock them back (or gamble for a retreating stutter step and push them off the stage).

 

[Buuman]

Characters such as Zero suit and Falco can as well with their forward smashes.

 

[Kuraudo]

I like predicting spotdodges after grab releases myself. lol Until a Snake FTilts or something. lmao

 

[Espy Rose]

I haven't read anything in this thread outside the first post, but:

If you foxtrot into a reversed dsmash, you can use the movement of the dsmash to avoid any get-up attack they could use, then watch as the second part of the dsmash movement hit them.

 

[JayBee]

That can work also cover rolls, this will have to be reserved for mid% mindgames at best, but that should work well against the heavies and the space animals, possibly. anyone with enough weight and fallspeed maybe.

 

[B.A.M.]

what Espy said. I think thats the best scenario for this. Thing is if they arent teching dthrow at such high percentage ( u said using it to kill) id just jab lock < fsmash. Honestly though this cant be a kill setup, perhaps a gimp setup though. Hey has anyone tried to dthrow> naritake step> jab lock ? im not that good at the naritake step ( i got true pivot down alright though) im wondering if that would work. Anyways, for ppl that are slow at reacting to dthrow, dthrow< BDacus works for me

 

[da K.I.D.]

Im still working on perfecting the down throw b dacus, but its legit.

 

[Tesh]

Im still working on perfecting the down throw b dacus, but its legit.

As a kill setup? Like landing only the final hit? That would be pretty nice if sonic could kill from a grab at 160ish.

 

[TommyGreenShirt]

Im still working on perfecting the down throw b dacus, but its legit.

Is there any advantage to doing the Bdacus as opposed to just buffering a dacus? The videos that I've seen on it explain it differently than a dacus, but the outcome seems the same. So I'm confused.

Anybody got an explanation?

 

[Trillion]

Is there any advantage to doing the Bdacus as opposed to just buffering a dacus? The videos that I've seen on it explain it differently than a dacus, but the outcome seems the same. So I'm confused.

Anybody got an explanation?

Ummm.. I thought the B in BDACUS stood for buffered....

 

[TommyGreenShirt]

Ummm.. I thought the B in BDACUS stood for buffered....

It does, but in tutorials they all say to smash the stick forward then the c-stick up twice. Is that how you guys do dacus?

I go stick forward, c-stick down, then smash up and Z at the same time to cancel the dash attack

 

[Espy Rose]

Is there any advantage to doing the Bdacus as opposed to just buffering a dacus? The videos that I've seen on it explain it differently than a dacus, but the outcome seems the same. So I'm confused.

Anybody got an explanation?

No, Tommy.
It's the same ****. Just an alternate method to do the same thing.
For example, I buffer my DACUS with one of the older methods (dash+cstickdown > smash control stick up+z)

 

[da K.I.D.]

it does lol.


also, tommy, about what you said on aim. there is NOTHING that I dont know about this character.

 

[TommyGreenShirt]

it does lol.


also, tommy, about what you said on aim. there is NOTHING that I dont know about this character.

Did you know that in the old cartoons he was voiced by Jaleel White?

Edit: You were probably referring to smash bros haha.

 

[Espy Rose]

KID's post didn't answer anything at all. "It is" doesn't even make sense given the context of the previous posts.

However, Tommy, the Jaleel White thing is common knowledge.
At least, it is on here.

 

[da K.I.D.]

my it is was in reference to tommys post I hadnt realise that you ninjad me espy.

tommy, did you know that jaleel white played Steve Urkel AND Stefon Urkel in family matters?

 

[TommyGreenShirt]

tommy, did you know that jaleel white played Steve Urkel AND Stefon Urkel in family matters?

WTF!? They're the same person!?

Edit: Wait, I got one.
Did you know that the guy that plays Robotnik's mustache also plays Jamie Hyneman's mustache?

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. that isnt even about sonic.
2. lets not take the thread super off topic, we have a social thread for that.
3. who the hell is jamie hyneman (answer in the social.)