Am I the only one who thinks that Zams is "too big"?

[BloderModer]

No, because there really isn't anything to be offended by.

The only qualms I see about Samus across the board are that the heels and her attractiveness are not practical or don't make sense, when the heels are practical (in context - Samus can handle them because she has super human balance, a normal person would be hindered if they moved around in them), and the body makes perfect sense (the breasts may be unnecessary, but their size is inconsequential to her movement, and they round out well with the rest of her body in a way that makes sense. Plus, the Zero Suit is keeping them nice and firm, so they don't get in her way, plus, well - Samus can't exactly help how large her breasts are if we look at this from a canon angle, unless she wants to go under the knife for that, but she has no reason to, as again, the Zero Suit is keeping them out of her way).

And if you want to split hairs, the beauty mark is an inoffensive, purely aesthetic touch added by the character designer which adds some aesthetic appeal to her (and before anyone says it, sexual and aesthetic appeal are two different things).

aBBYS can tell you what I've been trying to: It's about sex appeal. It's the thing many want to see, more sexiness. Who needs character when you have a sexy object to look at. The reason Nintendo has changed Samus is because they want her to look sexy, and you've admitted that yourself, but you wouldn't call her a "sex object", because her character is not about being eyecandy or object of desire for men or something like that. (Even though she's been designed to appeal to male gamers sexual nature.) Handcuffs-nunchaku? Oh, totally logical, she's been Chozo trained, no need for normal nunchakus (this is a metaphor, no need to take it literally, this metaphor is in the context of stereotypical BDSM-culture influences, that includes skintight suits, whips and stiletto heels)

And here is what you're saying: High heels? Chozo trained, no need for "normal" jet boots. And high heels has nothing to do with the connotations associated with skintight suits and whips, not at all. We are still supposed to see her as a strong warrior past her recent sexualisation, which is not sexualisation, because there is absolutely no possibility at all that whips, tight suits and high heels on a woman enhanced with bigger breasts and bigger buttocks could be associated with anything remotely sexual.

Do I understand you correctly?

I've given an entirely plausible explanation for the complaints that have been aimed at this character-design, if you still deny that there could even be a reason, even if you don't agree with those reasons yourself, that people could make complaints towards this, I'm done talking to you.

Edit'd: Metaphor instead of parable.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

lol looking at raidens animations, it looks like they mixed dude wearing heels with deer (which would be the movement i expect. digitigrade movement!)

they did do a great job with raiden's animations though.

did adder physically run around in advance wars? : P
in military standards, heels were commonly used for cavalry, so they are a logical character design choice (Despite there being no horses)

 

[BloderModer]

Heels are fashinoable:

That's Adder from Advance Wars 2. No one ever complained about his heels, despite him being out in war.

Bayonetta and Zero Suit Samus are both made with sex appeal in mind. If they were made believable, they would have much more muscle and less fat. But instead of looking athletic, they look curvy.

Adder is clearly based on Marilyn Manson, who wore high heels, corsets and other things like that. Manson didn't do it to be sexy, he did it to be controversial. Btw, Adder is not sexualized. It does however reinforce the "evil gay transvestite" stereotype.

 

[DraginHikari]

Samus is kind of weird to pin down when your talking about her strength and weaknesses as a female character. Nintendo has been so incrediblely inconsisent with her apperance, her body shape, and among other things. As a character who is primarily an action game character and has only had actual dialogue in a couple of games most of Samus has been judged by her actions almost entirely alone. Her appearance had almost never been a part of the discussion when discussing Samus as an overall character. Most scenes of her outside of the suit have been at the end of most games where there isn't much to suggest how Samus behaves when she's not in a dangerous situation and have various degrees of sexuality from game to game.

In fact when I look at the critisms of other M, even though Samus is seen outside of her suit far more then in previous games, it's not her appearance but once again her actions that were actually critized which makes sense given that Samus has almost always been charactized by her actions.

This is really one of the first times I've seen Samus' apperance called into question and it's a very curious question as of why, if Samus' appearance was not a heavy subject of debate it's interesting that it is now and in this particularly context.

 

[ChikoLad]

aBBYS can tell you what I've been trying to: It's about sex appeal. It's the thing many want to see, more sexiness. Who needs character when you have a sexy object to look at. The reason Nintendo has changed Samus is because they want her to look sexy, and you've admitted that yourself, but you wouldn't call her a "sex object", because her character is not about being eyecandy or object of desire for men or something like that. (Even though she's been designed to appeal to male gamers sexual nature.) Handcuffs-nunchaku? Oh, totally logical, she's been Chozo trained, no need for normal nunchakus (this is a parable, no need to take it literally, this parable is in the context of stereotypical BDSM-culture influences, that includes skintight suits, whips and stiletto heels)

And here is what you're saying: High heels? Chozo trained, no need for "normal" jet boots. And high heels has nothing to do with the connotations associated with skintight suits and whips, not at all. We are still supposed to see her as a strong warrior past her recent sexualisation, which is not sexualisation, because there is absolutely no possibility at all that whips, tight suits and high heels on a woman enhanced with bigger breasts and bigger buttocks could be associated with anything remotely sexual.

Do I understand you correctly?

I've given an entirely plausible explanation for the complaints that have been aimed at this character-design, if you still deny that there could even be a reason, even if you don't agree with those reasons yourself, that people could make complaints towards this, I'm done talking to you.

Are you sure you're not just a horny devil?

Seriously, "handcuffs-nunchacku being sexual"? You're literally the first person to interpret it as such.

And with that, I'm done. Samus is not some undignified object in Smash 4.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Samus is kind of weird to pin down when your talking about her strength and weaknesses as a female character. Nintendo has been so incrediblely inconsisent with her apperance, her body shape, and among other things. As a character who is primarily an action game character and has only had actual dialogue in a couple of games most of Samus has been judged by her actions almost entirely alone. Her appearance had almost never been a part of the discussion when discussing Samus as an overall character. Most scenes of her outside of the suit have been at the end of most games where there isn't much to suggest how Samus behaves when she's not in a dangerous situation and have various degrees of sexuality from game to game.

In fact when I look at the critisms of other M, even though Samus is seen outside of her suit far more then in previous games, it's not her appearance but once again her actions that were actually critized which makes sense given that Samus has almost always been charactized by her actions.

This is really one of the first times I've seen Samus' apperance called into question and it's a very curious question as of why, if Samus' appearance was not a heavy subject of debate it's interesting that it is now and in this particularly context.

as soon as you make her obviously female, there will be problems.

theres a lot of taboo about giving women sexuality when they arent 'meant' to be sexual. its a weird argument and i dont want to open up that can of worms

but people get a little silly about debating this

sexuality is a weirdly taboo subject

(i see this a lot with friends. they can discuss sex but as soon as one of the girls chime in, they get squeamish and tell us to stop being 'weird' xD western society and sexuality is actually very prudish)

 

[aBBYS]

I always wonder why people have these discussions. What do they get from them? It's like "my interpretation of the character is more right than yours" endless debate.

Does anyone here think that her butt is too big in this game? I'm just curious, not judging.

 

[BloderModer]

There are plenty of characters with super human balance who do crazy stuff in heels. Samus isn't the first.

I mean:

Those heels still look like ****

Are you sure you're not just a horny devil?

Seriously, "handcuffs-nunchacku"? You're literally the first person to interpret it as such.

And with that, I'm done. Samus is not some undignified object in Smash 4.

Wow. First you're telling me you don't know the meaning of context. Now you don't know the meaning of parable? Zenigata in Lupin III uses handcuffs as weapons, should I also call that sexual? (edit)

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I would be a bit careful with bringing society and gender representation IRL into a videogame.

Wait WTF do you think that video games are completely removed from society and solely exist in a vacuum or something?

 

[IsmaR]

I don't think of them as regular heels, tbh.

 

[aBBYS]

Adder is clearly based on Marilyn Manson, who wore high heels, corsets and other things like that. Manson didn't do it to be sexy, he did it to be controversial.

Does it matter WHY he wore them as long as they weren't practical? Because that's why people complain so much about Samus's heels.

Wait WTF do you think that video games are completely removed from society and solely exist in a vacuum or something?

No, but I know that any healthy individual (even kids, mostly) can differentiate reality from fiction without a problem, and that people love to do things in a fictional world that they would never do IRL.

 

[ChikoLad]

Samus is kind of weird to pin down when your talking about her strength and weaknesses as a female character. Nintendo has been so incrediblely inconsisent with her apperance, her body shape, and among other things. As a character who is primarily an action game character and has only had actual dialogue in a couple of games most of Samus has been judged by her actions almost entirely alone. Her appearance had almost never been a part of the discussion when discussing Samus as an overall character. Most scenes of her outside of the suit have been at the end of most games where there isn't much to suggest how Samus behaves when she's not in a dangerous situation and have various degrees of sexuality from game to game.

In fact when I look at the critisms of other M, even though Samus is seen outside of her suit far more then in previous games, it's not her appearance but once again her actions that were actually critized which makes sense given that Samus has almost always been charactized by her actions.

This is really one of the first times I've seen Samus' apperance called into question and it's a very curious question as of why, if Samus' appearance was not a heavy subject of debate it's interesting that it is now and in this particularly context.

My thoughts exactly.

Even when you look at all of these "nonsensical attributes made for sex appeal", you'll find a logical/canon explanation for them. No aspect is purely done because Samus is female, or to make her sexy. The sex appeal is a side effect, it never seems to be the forefront of the decision. Just like every Metroid game.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

I don't think of them as regular heels, tbh.

i love when people compare the boots to long fall boots!!
design standpoint would be more feasible.

 

[BloderModer]

Does it matter WHY he wore them as long as they weren't practical? Because that's why people complain so much about Samus's heels.

I'm still saying the design is ****, like I said in my edit.
Adder isn't a soldier, he's a commander, those are clearly combat "horse-riders" heels. Also, he's based on Manson.

 

[ChikoLad]

Those heels still look like ****

Wow. First you're telling me you don't know the meaning of context. Now you don't know the meaning of parable? Zenigata in Lupin III uses nunchucks as weapons, should I also call that sexual?

...OK, seriously, where are you going with this?

 

[DraginHikari]

I always wonder why people have these discussions. What do they get from them? It's like "my interpretation of the character is more right than yours" endless debate.

Does anyone here think that her butt is too big in this game? I'm just curious, not judging.

Fictional Character are created by people just like most things are and just like real people their action and behavior can be observed and understood by others. It's those different viewpoints that can make characters more interesting to observe and witness to. I'm working on Writing for my own character (the guy in my avatar) and even though I as the author make view a character one way, if someone read my writing they might get something entirely different out of it.

Samus is no different, and as Samus is a fairly well known as recongizible (Usually more inside her suit then without admittively) therefore their is always going to be some degree of discussion and understanding. It's just unlike a real breathing person we will never know the absolute truth as Samus cannot speak for herself.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I don't think of them as regular heels, tbh.

I have to admit, I thought of these too, but only in the context of "I wish her heels looked more like those shoes from Portal".

 

[aBBYS]

I'm still saying the design is ****, like I said in my edit.
Adder isn't a soldier, he's a commander, those are clearly combat "horse-riders" heels. Also, he's based on Manson.

He didn' ride any horse in Advance Wars, that's for sure.

My point is that he's got heels ONLY for his looks. Just like Samus in Other M.

The huge difference is that some people hated the heels in Other M a lot, while they didn't care in Advance Wars.

 

[BloderModer]

...OK, seriously, where are you going with this?

I was going to write handcuffs.

 

[BloderModer]

He didn' ride any horse in Advance Wars, that's for sure.

My point is that he's got heels ONLY for his looks. Just like Samus in Other M.

The huge difference is that some people hated the heels in Other M a lot, while they didn't care in Advance Wars.

I've played Advance Wars 2. The game only shows his torso. Those heels are not sexually objectifying. Why? Context. Go back and read my previous posts.

 

[ChikoLad]

I was going to write handcuffs.

I still don't understand the comparison you are attempting to make even after the edit. You're seriously taking this discussion in a completely off topic direction.

 

[BloderModer]

I still don't understand the comparison you are attempting to make even after the edit. You're seriously taking this discussion in a completely off topic direction.

Like you did with the Raiden heels after I clearly explained why the ZSS heels were problematic in the context I was presenting to you?
You said it yourself, handcuffs in the context of skintight suits and whips are sexual. I've proven my point.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I still don't understand the comparison you are attempting to make even after the edit. You're seriously taking this discussion in a completely off topic direction.

Dude, do you really not understand what they're trying to say? I felt that their post at the top of the page was pretty succinct.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

this argument is funny at this point

personally, im not for making her a sex object. its sad they did 'buff' some of her 'assets', but visually the design is more appealing.
they made the suit better, they gave her cool heels, and they made the model tasteful

its nice to see them exploring other parts of samus's character as well (Other M never existed tho it was all a horrible nightmare shhhhhh)
as soon as you add a little sexuality to her, we get mad. but why? why arent we mad about other oversexualized characters? to some, it feels wrong to give her sexuality. we never viewed her sexually and now that its happening its like 'wtf no she cant be sexual shes samus'

i think it makes her more appealing as a character. beauty, brains, and brawn. not stick thin, model beauty, but tough, muscle beauty with feminine touches. shes a great figure because she is multifaceted.

im still sad they went with the skin tight suit, but the way she is presented even with the suit is still dignified and strong. shes still the same bounty hunter.

now i go back to being the devils advocate

 

[aBBYS]

I've played Advance Wars 2. The game only shows his torso. Those heels are not sexually objectifying. Why? Context. Go back and read my previous posts.

I never said anything about sexually objectifying Adder. I said people don't care how impractical they are, but they did care a lot about that in Other M... for some reason.

Also:

GODDAMN!!!!!! HOLY MOTHER OF BOOTY!!!!

Without exeggerating, I can say I look pretty much like Charizard right now.

Look at her butt... look at it! Is that the power of HD? :-O

 

[BloderModer]

I never said anything about sexually objectifying Adder. I said people don't care how impractical they are, but they did care a lot about that in Other M... for some reason.

Also:



GODDAMN!!!!!! HOLY MOTHER OF BOOTY!!!!

Without exeggerating, I can say I look pretty much like Charizard right now.

Look at her butt... look at it! Is that the power of HD? :-O

The reason is simple: He commands, he doesn't fight, and you don't see his boots in-game.

 

[ChikoLad]

Like you did with the Raiden heels after I clearly explained why the ZSS heels were problematic in the context I was presenting to you?
You said it yourself, handcuffs in the context of skintight suits and whips are sexual. I've proven my point.

No, I never said that. You're putting words into my mouth at this point. No wonder I'm failing to understand your current line of posting.

Police handcuffs can be used as a sexual tool regardless of the presence of a skintight suit. They are a BDSM tool for TRAPPING you via your hands. Samus merely has wrist cuffs in this design. That's not sexual at all.

Also, the suit is more like a biker suit than a cat suit. It doesn't cling around the entirety of her breasts anymore, like in Brawl.

And the whip isn't sexual, it's a weapon.

These decisions were made in the context of fighting practicality and aesthetic appeal. Not in the context of giving you BDSM wet dreams with her. Jesus Christ.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

WHERE ARE WE GETTING HANDCUFFS, THE BOTH OF YOU?
im so confused.

 

[IsmaR]

Stupid sexy Charizard.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Stupid sexy Charizard.

do he got the booty?

he doooooo

 

[DraginHikari]

Sometimes I think the development team is having way too much fun with these screenshots.

 

[aBBYS]

Damn, she's so beautiful:

I'll never play as regular Samus again, LOL.

 

[BloderModer]

No, I never said that. You're putting words into my mouth at this point. No wonder I'm failing to understand your current line of posting.

Police handcuffs can be used as a sexual tool regardless of the presence of a skintight suit. They are a BDSM tool for TRAPPING you via your hands. Samus merely has wrist cuffs in this design. That's not sexual at all.

Also, the suit is more like a biker suit than a cat suit. It doesn't cling around the entirety of her breasts anymore, like in Brawl.

And the whip isn't sexual, it's a weapon.

These decisions were made in the context of fighting practicality and aesthetic appeal. Not in the context of giving you BDSM wet dreams with her. Jesus Christ.

I drew an analogy, I was even saying that you shouldn't take it literally. I didn't think of Samus bracelets.

Skintight suits are just as much a thing in BDSM as handcuffs is.

Whips, high heels, skintight suits and handcuffs does point to bdsm-images.
High heels are female shoes.
Whips are a weapon or a tool for controlling animals.
Skintight suit is tasteless fashion/superhero-fashion.

But Whips, High Heels and skintight suits does bring sexual images in mind, when they are together.

Fighting practicality is an ass pull from Nintendo, and you should know that. Even IF the intention was not to bring these sexual associations and apply it to Samus, admit that they can easily be understood as an appeal to porn-lovers, sexists and men. Combine that with the breast and butt enhancements, and you should know why people are making a deal out of the heels.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

dat model
lookit the hair. beautiful
nice use of alphas

 

[BloderModer]

WHERE ARE WE GETTING HANDCUFFS, THE BOTH OF YOU?
im so confused.

It was an analogy.

"Handcuffs-nunchaku? Oh, totally logical, she's been Chozo trained, no need for normal nunchakus (this is a parable, no need to take it literally, this parable is in the context of stereotypical BDSM-culture influences, that includes skintight suits, whips and stiletto heels) "

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

i c u lurking composer.

 

[ChikoLad]

I drew an analogy, I was even saying that you shouldn't take it literally. I didn't think of Samus bracelets.

Skintight suits are just as much a thing in BDSM as handcuffs is.

Whips, high heels, skintight suits and handcuffs does point to bdsm-images.
High heels are female shoes.
Whips are a weapon or a tool for controlling animals.
Skintight suit is tasteless fashion/superhero-fashion.

But Whips, High Heels and skintight suits does bring sexual images in mind, when they are together.

Fighting practicality is an *** pull from Nintendo, and you should know that. Even IF the intention was not to bring these sexual associations and apply it to Samus, admit that they can easily be understood as an appeal to porn-lovers, sexists and men. Combine that with the breast and butt enhancements, and you should know why people are making a deal out of the heels.

If designed in a certain way, but Samus' don't, they look like practical sci-fi tools for her. Just compare:

There is a pretty big difference here.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

dear lord we are actually going off bdsm stereotypes now with pictures.

what
is
going
onnnnnnnnnnn


also the phrase wouldnt be parable. itd be metaphor.

 

[BloderModer]

If designed in a certain way, but Samus' don't, they look like practical sci-fi tools for her. Just compare:

There is a pretty big difference here.

No, it's not. It made it even more clear to me that there is a connection.

 

[BloderModer]

dear lord we are actually going off bdsm stereotypes now with pictures.

what
is
going
onnnnnnnnnnn


also the phrase wouldnt be parable. itd be metaphor.

I'm very sorry for being unclear. Thanks for pointing that out!
I don't live in a english-speaking country and my first language isn't english.