Am I the only one who thinks that Zams is "too big"?

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The additions that have been made to Samus character have been sexual in nature, it enhances the idea of her as a sex object, instead of the warrior she actually is.

Some people just tend to take the appearances of certain females the wrong way.

 

[aBBYS]

Lol was just thinking that. Worst thread I've ever seen.

What is with these people who don't like certain threads, and feel the need to post in them just to express how much they dislike them? Isn't it enough that you don't click on them? Do you really have to tell everyone how stupid they're for enjoying a thread that you don't?

And about Samus,I don't see the problem with sexualization. It makes her more beautiful and attractive, and I'm all for that!

 

[gamer8]

What is with these people who don't like certain threads, and feel the need to post in them just to express how much they dislike them? Isn't it enough that you don't click on them? Do you really have to tell everyone how stupid they're for enjoying a thread that you don't?

And about Samus,I don't see the problem with sexualization. It makes her more beautiful and attractive, and I'm all for that!

Just saying what I think about it. People are blowing this way out of proportion. I'm done with this thread anyways, don't see any point in it.

 

[aBBYS]

The additions that have been made to Samus character have been sexual in nature, it enhances the idea of her as a sex object, instead of the warrior she actually is.

She may be a warrior in your view, but she's a sex object in mine!

Let people view characters in their own way, OK?

 

[ChikoLad]

The additions that have been made to Samus character have been sexual in nature, it enhances the idea of her as a sex object, instead of the warrior she actually is.

No, because she is not actually being used as an object.

She's a woman, of course she will be the focus of some male attention, but that does not make her an object. Again, if you want Samus the Object, look at Other M. Or Rule 34 art of her.

 

[BloderModer]

She may be a warrior in your view, but she's a sex object in mine!

Let people view characters in their own way, OK?

Thank you, this was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Sonicguy726]

And she wasn't a woman before?

Still, it's heels, when has a woman wearing heels ever been a problem before, If bayonetta can wear heels and be one of the most badass women in gaming why can't samus

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

-facedesk- This is going nowhere fast

 

[aBBYS]

Still, it's heels, when has a woman wearing heels ever been a problem before, If bayonetta can wear heels and be one of the most badass women in gaming why can't samus

Maybe it's becase I'm from another culture, but what's with this obsession with everyone having to be badasses in the US? Is there a cultural thing to it?

 

[Sonicguy726]

Maybe it's becase I'm from another culture, but what's with this obsession with everyone having to be badasses in the US? Is there a cultural thing to it?

It's just cool I guess and why wouldn't you want things to be cool

 

[BloderModer]

No, because she is not actually being used as an object.

She's a woman, of course she will be the focus of some male attention, but that does not make her an object. Again, if you want Samus the Object, look at Other M. Or Rule 34 art of her.

Other M is more sexually objectifying and sexist than Smash 4.
Smash 4 has no plot, does that mean that characters can't be sexualized? Zamus is sexualized and isn't too far away from her character in other M in the way she's designed. People do see her as a sex object, Nintendo have put importance on her femininity and body, not her personality or actions. That is why I think people actually have a right to complain about Nintendos changes in her design.

 

[aBBYS]

It's just cool I guess and why wouldn't you want things to be cool

Because I like variety.

Other M is more sexually objectifying and sexist than Smash 4.
Smash 4 has no plot, does that mean that characters can't be sexualized? Zamus is sexualized and isn't too far away from her character in other M in the way she's designed. People do see her as a sex object, Nintendo have put importance on her femininity and body, not her personality or actions. That is why I think people actually have a right to complain about Nintendos changes in her design.

Everyone has a right to complain and a right to their own opinion. I understand that people who see Samus as a warrior are disappointed with her sexualization. But people also need to understand that others love her as a sex object and that a more beautiful body is great news.

Besides, the "warrior" fans have regular Samus. Let the "sex object" fans have Zero Suit Samus - win-win!

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

okay the whole sex object thing is a little weirddddd juuuuuuus sayin'

if thats all she is to you then i guess thats your cup of tea?

 

[aBBYS]

okay the whole sex object thing is a little weirddddd juuuuuuus sayin'

if thats all she is to you then i guess thats your cup of tea?

Yep, it is. I think it's weird complaining that Samus is getting sexier and more beautiful, but we all have our different opinions.

As I said, let the warrior fans get regular Samus and sex fans get Zero Suit Samus. That way, both sides will be pleased.

 

[BloderModer]

Because I like variety.



Everyone has a right to complain and a right to their own opinion. I understand that people who see Samus as a warrior are disappointed with her sexualization. But people also need to understand that others love her as a sex object and that a more beautiful body is great news.

Besides, the "warrior" fans have regular Samus. Let the "sex object" fans have Zero Suit Samus - win-win!

I actually said that to my girlfriend when discussing this. "Well, I guess this is a compromise between badass-Samus fans and ass-Samus fans."

Doesn't mean I don't think this is a problem for society and gender-representation as a whole, but that's another discussion entirely.

Also, this:

Is cooler than this:

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

but regular samus fans like zss too

samus gets to be a sexy and strong lady, blodermoder, so thats sort of cool. it does not have to be embraced, but its sort of cool for a lot of fans uwu /

and yeah smashboards had that discussion a few times and it was a chaotic mess

 

[aBBYS]

Doesn't mean I don't think this is a problem for society and gender-representation as a whole, but that's another discussion entirely.

I would be a bit careful with bringing society and gender representation IRL into a videogame.

but regular samus fans like zss too

samus gets to be a sexy and strong lady, blodermoder, so thats sort of cool. it does not have to be embraced, but its sort of cool for a lot of fans uwu /

Just how sex appeal fans like regular Samus as well, and wish that her bulky armor would have some less protection for more viewing pleasure. However, I rarely see sex appeal fans complain about this. It's almost always the warrior fans who complain that they don't get the whole cake while eating it.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

duuuuuuuuuude that suit though is a marvel of character design

the second suit has a great silhouette and better visual flow eeeeeeee
its so pretttyful

most the suit designs are great tho
ughhhh i love their concept artists. they make good things.

and no samus gets full armor will full protection because look at how awesome that is
1. fully clothed female character
2. fully clothed female character bounty hunter in suit with ROCKETS AND MISSLES AND LASERS
3. look at that design wowowowowoowowwwww

 

[DraginHikari]

Sexism and Sexual objectivication is an extremely complicated social and psychological subject matter that I don't believe can be accurately and effectively examed in this particularly setting.

 

[BloderModer]

I would be a bit careful with bringing society and gender representation IRL into a videogame.

Media is a reflection of society, also media affects society. There's room to talk about these issues and conflicts, but not now, that's not what this discussion is about.
Where are you from?

 

[aBBYS]

Sexism and Sexual objectivication is an extremely complicated social and psychological subject matter that I don't believe can be accurately and effectively examed in this particularly setting.

I agree. Such a discussion wouldn't even be allowed here I think, and let's not drag "sexism" and such into this world of fiction.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Media is a reflection of society, also media affects society. There's room to talk about these issues and conflicts, but not now, that's not what this discussion is about.
Where are you from?

smashboards is not a place for that because look at the audience of the site

to be blunt
they dont care

and its saddening.


and sexism arguments have happened.
but
audience

chaotic mess.

also

teen girl squad likes my posts
yesssssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[aBBYS]

Media is a reflection of society, also media affects society. There's room to talk about these issues and conflicts, but not now, that's not what this discussion is about.
Where are you from?

Yes, but only to a certain limit. In fiction, people will create the characters of their dreams (because it's possible), and to attack that vision... I think that's extremely wrong. It's like hunting down people for their thoughts.

The effect of media should not be overestimated either. For example, you don't believe you can blame school massacres on FPS games, do you? Normal, healthy people can differentiate between fiction and reality without any problem. I don't see women IRL as sex objects, but in fiction I sometimes do. Because fiction is one world, reality is another.

That being said, has anyone talked about Zero Suit Samus's buttocks, or is this whole thread about her boobs and heels?

 

[BloderModer]

smashboards is not a place for that because look at the audience of the site

to be blunt
they dont care

and its saddening.


and sexism arguments have happened.
but
audience

chaotic mess.

I respect those that I don't agree with. Smashboards is what you make it. Even if your contributions are small. I also get a deeper understanding of other peoples opinions, and that's always good. But yeah, it can be exhausting.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

but they dont respect you here
smashboards is just a weird place sometimes
er
all the time.

we took the argument to facebook...results were a little better because you take away the anonymity of it all

though, the responses on smashboards sometimes were more sensitive to others depending on the person

forums, yo. forums.

 

[aBBYS]

Where are you from?

Not from a western culture, but I live in a western country today.

 

[ChikoLad]

Other M is more sexually objectifying and sexist than Smash 4.
Smash 4 has no plot, does that mean that characters can't be sexualized? Zamus is sexualized and isn't too far away from her character in other M in the way she's designed. People do see her as a sex object, Nintendo have put importance on her femininity and body, not her personality or actions. That is why I think people actually have a right to complain about Nintendos changes in her design.

No, that would imply that this is all Samus can be seen as. Samus is a subject of sexualisation, not an object. She can be viewed in a sexual way, but it's not the end all be all (or even the majority) view of the character. I see Samus as warrior who is attractive due to the training her body was put under having formed the way she looks. Saying that this is making her a sex object is like saying a girl working out is sexualisation. Warriors tend to be fit. Look at Link, or Little Mac, or Marth. Similarly, look at Sheik, a fellow warrior woman (and technically, all of the females in Smash are warriors, as they are fighters in the game). A body will be well toned if it's always worked out. Samus does not look the way she does to give you a boner, she looks the way she does because it makes sense considering her background.

In the end, the main reason a woman being the subject of sexualisation is a problem to women is because they often feel that the clothes women wear are not practical, or the nice body doesn't make sense due to their background. However, Samus' body does make sense considering her background, and the heels in Smash 4 are useful to her in many ways. Heck, the heels aren't even cute, they are bulky sci-fi equipment.

Also whether you prefer the Super Metroid or the Other M Power Suit is a matter of opinion, and has nothing to do with Samus being a subject of sexualisation.

To be honest though, I'm tiring of this line of discussion, I shouldn't have to spell this stuff out for people. There is nothing offensive about Samus' design or charcaterisation here. She's Samus.

 

[BloderModer]

Yes, but only to a certain limit. In fiction, people will create the characters of their dreams (because it's possible), and to attack that vision... I think that's extremely wrong. It's like hunting down people for their thoughts.

The effect of media should not be overestimated either. For example, you don't believe you can blame school massacres on FPS games, do you? Normal, healthy people can differentiate between fiction and reality without any problem. I don't see women IRL as sex objects, but in fiction I sometimes do. Because fiction is one world, reality is another.

That being said, has anyone talked about Zero Suit Samus's buttocks, or is this whole thread about her boobs and heels?

A lot of money is put into commercials, lobbyists put a lot of money into campaigns, so it has a certain power, and we never know in what ways, because it's sometimes put so deep into our subconscious that we don't know it itself. We see ourselves as rational and are unable to see how irrational we can be, sometimes. But like you said, it doesn't turn people into rapists or violent schoolshooters over night.

I think this was about her boobs and changes in general.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

sonicbrawler, thats just your opinion in all honesty.

this is a lot of opinions

and opinions can be good

opinions can also be bad and shoved in the faces of people

remember this, all ye who post here

 

[BloderModer]

No, that would imply that this is all Samus can be seen as. Samus is a subject of sexualisation, not an object. She can be viewed in a sexual way, but it's not the end all be all (or even the majority) view of the character. I see Samus as warrior who is attractive due to the training her body was put under having formed the way she looks. Saying that this is making her a sex object is like saying a girl working out is sexualisation. Warriors tend to be fit. Look at Link, or Little Mac, or Marth. Similarly, look at Sheik, a fellow warrior woman (and technically, all of the females in Smash are warriors, as they are fighters in the game). A body will be well toned if it's always worked out. Samus does not look the way she does to give you a boner, she looks the way she does because it makes sense considering her background.

In the end, the main reason a woman being the subject of sexualisation is a problem to women is because they often feel that the clothes women wear are not practical, or the nice body doesn't make sense due to their background. However, Samus' body does make sense considering her background, and the heels in Smash 4 are useful to her in many ways. Heck, the heels aren't even cute, they are bulky sci-fi equipment.

Also whether you prefer the Super Metroid or the Other M Power Suit is a matter of opinion, and has nothing to do with Samus being a subject of sexualisation.

To be honest though, I'm tiring of this line of discussion, I shouldn't have to spell this stuff out for people. There is nothing offensive about Samus' design or charcaterisation here. She's Samus.

As I pointed out, they've taken away her athletic body, athletic women have smaller butts and breasts. Samus used to have arms with muscles, now she's not. EDIT: Okay, I was thinking more of Other M, when I thougth of her arms, but still.
I'm also tired. I don't see your points as unreasonable, but I simply don't agree, because to me, the evidence is overwhelming.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Well, the athletic body thing depends on the type of athlete she would be considered.
the hips definitely could be bigger or smaller depending on what she works out
shoulders have also been more defined for samus, along with her biceps and her legs.
and dat tummy look how fit it is
what a nice model. gj to whoever modeled the higher poly promotional model

 

[aBBYS]

Well, the athletic body thing depends on the type of athlete she would be considered.
the hips definitely could be bigger or smaller depending on what she works out
shoulders have also been more defined for samus, along with her biceps and her legs.
and dat tummy look how fit it is
what a nice model. gj to whoever modeled the higher poly promotional model

I think it's safe to say that generally, bigger butts is not the result of more muscle - especially not when the rest of her body is so slim. And look at Wii Fit Trainer - her butt is noticably smaller than Zero Suit Samus's - for a reason that spells fat.

And that doesn't mean I think Samus looks fat in any way, but her butt is fatter in this game than it was in Brawl - and that's a GOOD thing if you ask me!

See, sex appeal (regarding the female body) usually doesn't come from muscles, it comes from delicous fat in the right places. That's why Samus's boobs and buttocks are bigger. Not because she's fitter, but because she plumped up a bit.

 

[ChikoLad]

sonicbrawler, thats just your opinion in all honesty.

this is a lot of opinions

and opinions can be good

opinions can also be bad and shoved in the faces of people

remember this, all ye who post here

No, because there really isn't anything to be offended by.

The only qualms I see about Samus across the board are that the heels and her attractiveness are not practical or don't make sense, when the heels are practical (in context - Samus can handle them because she has super human balance, a normal person would be hindered if they moved around in them), and the body makes perfect sense (the breasts may be unnecessary, but their size is inconsequential to her movement, and they round out well with the rest of her body in a way that makes sense. Plus, the Zero Suit is keeping them nice and firm, so they don't get in her way, plus, well - Samus can't exactly help how large her breasts are if we look at this from a canon angle, unless she wants to go under the knife for that, but she has no reason to, as again, the Zero Suit is keeping them out of her way).

And if you want to split hairs, the beauty mark is an inoffensive, purely aesthetic touch added by the character designer which adds some aesthetic appeal to her (and before anyone says it, sexual and aesthetic appeal are two different things).

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

well maybe for some people there is and saying that your opinion is the correct one without hard scientific facts is not really credible.
but that is also just my opinion.

abbys, i was not arguing the butt tho : o just the hips
i like when artists can get hips right because they are difficult.

women's bodies in general are often butchered in this industry
lrn to boobs/hips/bodies/everything games industry

and heels are a nuisance have you ever walked in them
even superhumans would be mad

plus, from the animations we have seen thus far, she doesnt walk 'correctly' in them.
when you wear heels, you tend to have to walk with a sway (she only has a slight sway. running in heels is way different than what samus does. trust me. ive tried)
because heels arent all about balance...its about how you walk because if you walk incorrectly, you have a chance of hurting yourself
one of the many reasons it looks 'weird' when guys wear heels (there are guys who dance in heels tho sweet jesus they are talented): a sway is a more feminine looking walk because unlike men, women are NOT top heavy
our center of gravity is in the hips

guys on the other hand shift their shoulders instead of swaying hips

try it. its fun to switch up how you walk.

sorry, im playing devil's advocate at this point XD
im actually a huge fan of the heels lol

 

[ChikoLad]

well maybe for some people there is and saying that your opinion is the correct one without hard scientific facts is not really credible.
but that is also just my opinion.

abbys, i was not arguing the butt tho : o just the hips
i like when artists can get hips right because they are difficult.

women's bodies in general are often butchered in this industry
lrn to boobs/hips/bodies/everything games industry

and heels are a nuisance have you ever walked in them
even superhumans would be mad

plus, from the animations we have seen thus far, she doesnt walk 'correctly' in them.
when you wear heels, you tend to have to walk with a sway (she only has a slight sway. running in heels is way different than what samus does. trust me. ive tried)
one of the many reasons it looks 'weird' when guys wear heels (there are guys who dance in heels tho sweet jesus they are talented): a sway is a more feminine looking walk because unlike men, women are NOT top heavy
our center of gravity is in the hips

guys on the other hand shift their shoulders instead of swaying hips

try it. its fun to switch up how you walk.

sorry, im playing devil's advocate at this point XD
im actually a huge fan of the heels lol

There are plenty of characters with super human balance who do crazy stuff in heels. Samus isn't the first.

I mean:

 

[aBBYS]

well maybe for some people there is and saying that your opinion is the correct one without hard scientific facts is not really credible.
but that is also just my opinion.

abbys, i was not arguing the butt tho : o just the hips
i like when artists can get hips right because they are difficult.

women's bodies in general are often butchered in this industry
lrn to boobs/hips/bodies/everything games industry

and heels are a nuisance have you ever walked in them
even superhumans would be mad

plus, from the animations we have seen thus far, she doesnt walk 'correctly' in them.
when you wear heels, you tend to have to walk with a sway (she only has a slight sway. running in heels is way different than what samus does. trust me. ive tried)
one of the many reasons it looks 'weird' when guys wear heels (there are guys who dance in heels tho sweet jesus they are talented): a sway is a more feminine looking walk because unlike men, women are NOT top heavy
our center of gravity is in the hips

guys on the other hand shift their shoulders instead of swaying hips

try it. its fun to switch up how you walk.

sorry, im playing devil's advocate at this point XD
im actually a huge fan of the heels lol

What a lovely post! Finally someone stops talking about her boobs and start talking about her hips! I know I'm biased here, but come one, people talk about her boobs ALL THE TIME. She has something great on the other side too, you know. ;-)

I agree with what you're saying, but again, this is a game. A work of fiction. It's not supposed to be all realistic. I mean, how realistic is it that she can jump three times her own height?

Her hips and buttocks are not a result of intense training, they're a result of making her look sexier. If they decided to make her look more believable, then she would have more muscles and less fat.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

that doesnt mean its right

plus, raiden is a bit different. id compare him with more animal like movement than high heel movement.

also, alas, its my job to look at it realistically, and THEN break things : P concept artistttttt

like today, i did 2 hours of research on shaolin monks and martial arts.........only to have to break it when we go to motion capture for our animations because tai chi isn't active enough to create fighting game esque animations. gotta make sure you know whats real before you can break it within realms of reason.

 

[Sonicguy726]

There are plenty of characters with super human balance who do crazy stuff in heels. Samus isn't the first.

I mean:

I mean bayonetta has gun heels plus samus was raised by the chozo, she most likely has perfect balance so it wouldn't make a difference to her

 

[ChikoLad]

that doesnt mean its right

plus, raiden is a bit different. id compare him with more animal like movement than high heel movement.

also, alas, its my job to look at it realistically, and THEN break things : P concept artistttttt

like today, i did 2 hours of research on shaolin monks and martial arts.........only to have to break it when we go to motion capture for our animations because tai chi isn't active enough to create fighting game esque animations.

Uh...no....Raiden is, err...pretty fabulous.

His heels to have practical use though, and are not a hindrance to him, but that's what I'm getting at with Samus.

 

[aBBYS]

Heels are fashinoable:

That's Adder from Advance Wars 2. No one ever complained about his heels, despite him being out in war.

Bayonetta and Zero Suit Samus are both made with sex appeal in mind. If they were made believable, they would have much more muscle and less fat. But instead of looking athletic, they look curvy.