Am I the only one who thinks that Zams is "too big"?

[Sonicguy726]

Samus IS sexualized, there's no getting around it.
Like it, dislike it, it's still a fact that Nintendo is sexualizing Samus.
Some people don't mind it, but understand that there will be people that complain.

They have no reason to complain, women are normally sexualized in games, since forever, like lara croft and even samus, you're reward for beating the games faster is seeing her more naked

 

[ChikoLad]

Men are just as sexualised too, but even if Superman has a figure I can't possibly achieve, I know not to look at his design and think "ugh this is obviously what the character designer thinks all men should look like".

Besides, Samus isn't even every guys ideal woman anyway, so there is no risk of some massive, negative influence. Personally, I'm more of a Rosalina guy.

 

[BloderModer]

They have no reason to complain, women are normally sexualized in games, since forever, like lara croft and even samus, you're reward for beating the games faster is seeing her more naked

Samus is more sexualized now than back then. She was built like an athlete, now they got rid of her muscles, added beauty marks, larger breast size and stilettos with matching bracelets.

The ending screen was a bonus scene in a game about killing aliens and blowing up stuff in a robot-suit for 6 hours.

Chrom got slightly sexualized in a DLC chapter of Fire Emblem awakening, with a submissive pose and a "cute" logo on his swimming trunks backside. But the game is a war strategy, and Chrom is never sexualized in the game, only in that bonus. His character wasn't centered around his sexualization.

So you think that there is absolutely no reason at all that Samus and Metroid-fans could be critical of Nintendos changes?

 

[Sonicguy726]

Samus is more sexualized now than back then. She was built like an athlete, now they got rid of her muscles, added beauty marks, larger breast size and stilettos with matching bracelets.

The ending screen was a bonus scene in a game about killing aliens and blowing up stuff in a robot-suit for 6 hours.

Chrom got slightly sexualized in a DLC chapter of Fire Emblem awakening, with a submissive pose and a "cute" logo on his swimming trunks backside. But the game is a war strategy, and Chrom is never sexualized in the game, only in that bonus. His character wasn't centered around his sexualization.

So you think that there is absolutely no reason at all that Samus and Metroid-fans could be critical of Nintendos changes?

Obviously there is some, people complained about other m's changes which this design is mainly based on, but the thing is that she has always been at least somewhat sexualized and adding a bit more to that isn't gonna kill anyone and I really doubt that the people that are complaining are metroid fans. Samus isn't centered around her sexualization either she has boobs and wears heels, she's female so what, she's still the badass we know and love

 

[ChikoLad]

Samus is more sexualized now than back then. She was built like an athlete, now they got rid of her muscles, added beauty marks, larger breast size and stilettos with matching bracelets.

The ending screen was a bonus scene in a game about killing aliens and blowing up stuff in a robot-suit for 6 hours.

Chrom got slightly sexualized in a DLC chapter of Fire Emblem awakening, with a submissive pose and a "cute" logo on his swimming trunks backside. But the game is a war strategy, and Chrom is never sexualized in the game, only in that bonus. His character wasn't centered around his sexualization.

So you think that there is absolutely no reason at all that Samus and Metroid-fans could be critical of Nintendos changes?

But Samus is not centered around her sexualisation. At all. She doesn't seduce guys, or exploit her body in a sexual manner. She just looks really good, which is expected, because she was raised by the Chozo and underwent extreme yoga-like training. Yoga is meant to give you a fit body.

Even in Smash, this is no different. She just kicks ass like she's supposed to.

In fact, I don't really see Samus as "sexualised", outside of those fan service pictures you could unlock in the older games. If you forget about those, there are no sexual connotations to her character at all. She simply looks sexy to most, but this is subjective anyway, and looking sexy does not mean you act in a sexual manner.

 

[smashbroskilla]

I wish her butt was bigger and bubbly. That would be awesome.

 

[BloderModer]

To me, I don't see sexualised characters as a problem. As long as the character designers and writers aren't saying "this is how women/men SHOULD be", then there's no harm. Anyone saying that's what the designers of Samus are saying is full of it. And I don't think any guy is going to belittle their girlfriend for not looking like Samus or anything. And if that ever did happen, Samus' design ain't the problem, it's the guy who can't seperate fantasy from reality.

Obviously there is some, people complained about other m's changes which this design is mainly based on, but the thing is that she has always been at least somewhat sexualized and adding a bit more to that isn't gonna kill anyone and I really doubt that the people that are complaining are metroid fans. Samus isn't centered around her sexualization either she has boobs and wears heels, she's female so what, she's still the badass we know and love

Precisely, and that's the thing: Sexualization isn't binary. Yes, she has always been somewhat sexualized, but not in the way she is sexualized today. She wore underwear, yes, but only after the mission was done. Her poses and body language was much more dominant, hands on her hips, looking always battle ready in her fat powerful suit.

The heels, bracelets and boobs are minor changes, but many people don't like the direction Nintendo is going with her design. These changes are small, but overall, Samus is not the same kind of character she was in Prime.

She still kicks ass, but if they wanted her to kick more ass...

Why not add a jetpack on her back for her recovery? Why not give her more guns, bombs and things like that? Zamus is a weak, but sneaky character in Zero Mission, why not make her that kind of character?

And no, I'm not a moralist or anything like that, characters can be beautiful and sexy, but I do understand why there could be complaints.

Edit: Sorry for the double post.

 

[ChikoLad]

Precisely, and that's the thing: Sexualization isn't binary. Yes, she has always been somewhat sexualized, but not in the way she is sexualized today. She wore underwear, yes, but only after the mission was done. Her poses and body language was much more dominant, hands on her hips, looking always battle ready in her fat powerful suit.

The heels, bracelets and boobs are minor changes, but many people don't like the direction Nintendo is going with her design. These changes are small, but overall, Samus is not the same kind of character she was in Prime.

She still kicks ***, but if they wanted her to kick more ***...

Why not add a jetpack on her back for her recovery? Why not give her more guns, bombs and things like that? Zamus is a weak, but sneaky character in Zero Mission, why not make her that kind of character?

I don't see what's different in the body language here. Nothing about it screams feminine to me. Heck, one of her idle animations has her double-check her weapon's ammo (even if ammo doesn't technically exist for it in Smash Bros). When in her power suit, Samus is just as dominant as ever in appearance. If anything, the old artwork you could unlock made her look as girly as she's ever been:

Hair flick? Check.
Crossed Legs? Check.
"Hands on knee and reclining back" pose? Check.

Then there's her Brawl render:

Which can only be described as a stereotypical "Boobs n' Butt" pose, which is seductive.

Than the Smash 4 render:

Depicts her in the middle of a kicking motion, depicting how she actually fights.

So I really don't understand how she's most sexualised here. She's never looked sexier, but this game WILL be in HD AND 3D.

Also a jetpack would be really clunky and would be aesthetically clashing with her design. That, and there is a Jet Pack item in the game useable by all characters, so they couldn't do that with ZSS regardless.

 

[BloderModer]

The jetpack was just an example. They could have given her "Chozo ghost-style-energy-generating-almost-magic-but-still-science"-gloves but chose to give her high heels.

I was thinking of the old nes-gb-snes endings of Samus, hands on hips, legs firmly on ground, looking at you. Crossed legs or hair flicks is not that gendered. Marth flicks his hair. In general, she has a very natural pose in that crossed legs-picture. Hand over legs is also a comparably normal pose. There is nothing fetishizing about that compared to whip and stilettos. But also: I didn't say she wasn't sexualized or sexy before, I was saying that she has been more sexualized.

I was also thinking of her power suit. In her official art for Brawl and Melee (and prime and fusion), her body language is a lot more "Boba Fett, serious bounty-hunter ready mode" while she looks less battle ready in Smash4 (and other M). There are exceptions of course, but there is a pattern.

Beauty mark, removal of muscles (she looks a lot more athletic in the Zero Mission endings you posted), a whip, larger breasts, wider hips/bigger butt and high heels with matching bracelets.

But, I do understand you. To many people like you, it's not a big deal, but to other people, it is. And that was the point I was trying to make. She is more sexualized now than before, or there are reasons why people would think she's more sexualized than before.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

They have no reason to complain, women are normally sexualized in games, since forever, like lara croft and even samus, you're reward for beating the games faster is seeing her more naked

OKAY THIS IS A PROBLEMATIC STATEMENT. this is one of the things wrong with the games industry.

This is something about games that needs to be fixed.

and men sexualized in games = fewer than women percentage wise
when men are the majority of characters in games and soooo many of the minority of women are sexualized, theres a problem. games industry is 11% women. we do not spend our time sexualizing men in games. trust me. especially when that 11% is from all sides of game development (i wonder what the art % is)
im not going to bore you guys with the male vs female sexualization in games argument because im 99% sure none of you guys frankly give a **** about what i have to say on the subject anyway (ive learned the internet is the worst place to argue women in games because the internet is a horrid place)

also, both of you are right in your own ways. shes sexier, but her smash 4 art so far has been rather tasteful in comparison to what i was expecting. shes sexy, but still powerful. better than her twig of a self from brawl. in comparison to the model, she has more muscle definition and 'bulkier' features in the overall silhouette.

also the matching heels and bracelet =/= girly dear lord
its a rule of character design to repeat features to draw the entire character together. they wanted the repeated design of the heels so they made bracelets.
its made her character more interesting, plus they used the other M/max factory figure style blocking on the suit. character design 100% better than brawl because of the visual interests theyve added
this is good character design (minus the increase in sizes elsewhere tho hip increases arent always bad because women do have stronger lower bodies than upper bodies, so adding bulk there can be considered a smart move blah blah blah i do concept art for a living i think about these things way to much)

yes, shes sexualized. they made certain features more noticeable. it kind of sucks. but the fact that people are using the HEELS to be the highlight of the sexualization of the character is appalling at best.
yes, its a problem in games. but, samus is still strong so please dont take that away from her. we always equate sexy = no strength or helpless or whatever...but samus is sexy and strong and can beat anyone in the universe. and shes sexy even with the suit because of the character. thats why shes my favorite game heroine...because shes someone i could look up to as a kid while my guy friends had a plethora of strong male characters.

 

[BloderModer]

yes, shes sexualized. they made certain features more noticeable. it kind of sucks. but the fact that people are using the HEELS to be the highlight of the sexualization of the character is appalling at best.
yes, its a problem in games. but, samus is still strong so please dont take that away from her. we always equate sexy = no strength or helpless or whatever...but samus is sexy and strong and can beat anyone in the universe. and shes sexy even with the suit because of the character. thats why shes my favorite game heroine...because shes someone i could look up to as a kid while my guy friends had a plethora of strong male characters.

Yes, it's such a small addition that it really doesn't matter much. But to many people who do complain about this, this was just another last straw. Nintendo have been molding her character into a stereotyped female archetype. It could have been a lot worse, and that is true. But it could have been better.

 

[ChikoLad]

The jetpack was just an example. They could have given her "Chozo ghost-style-energy-generating-almost-magic-but-still-science"-gloves but chose to give her high heels.

I was thinking of the old nes-gb-snes endings of Samus, hands on hips, legs firmly on ground, looking at you. Crossed legs or hair flicks is not that gendered. Marth flicks his hair. In general, she has a very natural pose in that crossed legs-picture. Hand over legs is also a comparably normal pose. There is nothing fetishizing about that compared to whip and stilettos. But also: I didn't say she wasn't sexualized or sexy before, I was saying that she has been more sexualized.

I was also thinking of her power suit. In her official art for Brawl and Melee (and prime and fusion), her body language is a lot more "Boba Fett, serious bounty-hunter ready mode" while she looks less battle ready in Smash4 (and other M). There are exceptions of course, but there is a pattern.

Beauty mark, removal of muscles (she looks a lot more athletic in the Zero Mission endings you posted), a whip, larger breasts, wider hips/bigger butt and high heels with matching bracelets.

But, I do understand you. To many people like you, it's not a big deal, but to other people, it is. And that was the point I was trying to make. She is more sexualized now than before, or there are reasons why people would think she's more sexualized than before.

I don't even know what you are even talking about in that first line. As has been said, the heels are practical for Samus. People having a problem are actually objectifying her in their mind, or ignoring her actual character (while the design seems based off Other M, she acts just like she did in Brawl).

Those endings were like that because of limited hardware. The GBA is more powerful than the SNES, and can produce higher quality images. Player sprites on the SNES and earlier generally avoided poses that involved characters touching parts of their own self, as it was difficult to animate effectively on the SNES. Notice how she instantly started getting more sexy as the hardware improved and she was put in more dynamic poses. Which has brought us to how she looks in Smash 4.
And she isn't more sexualised than before. As I have pointed out, Smash 4 is one of her less sexualised portrayals. She isn't objectified like in Other M, but she doesn't have feminine poses in her render either. Same with her in-game animations.

Samus' wide hips and big butt make perfect sense because of the yoga background. Wii Fit Trainer also has wide hips. Samus is more extreme because her training with the Chozo was more intense than standard yoga. Her breasts are hardly a hindrance. They are sizeable, but are firmly stuck in a suit, and they are a counter weight to her large butt anyway. She has no trouble curling into a ball just like Sonic, after all.

And the whip is NOT fetishisation. Whips are legitimate weapons. Heck, Sheik has had one (not sure if she has it in this, could still be used as her grapple though). Yet nobody is crying fetishisation there. Funny how throwing heels or a feminine body into the equation makes that a fetish. I don't see how a bare bones, plasma whip is fetishisation. If it was made out of love hearts or bondage accessories, maybe, but not in this instance.

 

[BloderModer]

I don't even know what you are even talking about in that first line. As has been said, the heels are practical for Samus. People having a problem are actually objectifying her in their mind, or ignoring her actual character (while the design seems based off Other M, she acts just like she did in Brawl).

Those endings were like that because of limited hardware. The GBA is more powerful than the SNES, and can produce higher quality images. Player sprites on the SNES and earlier generally avoided poses that involved characters touching parts of their own self, as it was difficult to animate effectively on the SNES. Notice how she instantly started getting more sexy as the hardware improved and she was put in more dynamic poses. Which has brought us to how she looks in Smash 4.
And she isn't more sexualised than before. As I have pointed out, Smash 4 is one of her less sexualised portrayals. She isn't objectified like in Other M, but she doesn't have feminine poses in her render either. Same with her in-game animations.

Samus' wide hips and big butt make perfect sense because of the yoga background. Wii Fit Trainer also has wide hips. Samus is more extreme because her training with the Chozo was more intense than standard yoga. Her breasts are hardly a hindrance. They are sizeable, but are firmly stuck in a suit, and they are a counter weight to her large butt anyway. She has no trouble curling into a ball just like Sonic, after all.

And the whip is NOT fetishisation. Whips are legitimate weapons. Heck, Sheik has had one (not sure if she has it in this, could still be used as her grapple though). Yet nobody is crying fetishisation there. Funny how throwing heels or a feminine body into the equation makes that a fetish. I don't see how a bare bones, plasma whip is fetishisation. If it was made out of love hearts or bondage accessories, maybe, but not in this instance.

Why did Nintendo feel the need to "improve" her appearance? Whips, cat suits and high heels. Sheik is a ninja, with a chain whip, and her moveset is not based around the whip. It's about context. Tell me: Why did they decide to add heels, instead of, like in my example: gloves? Why did they give Samus a whip, instead of, I don't know, a laser sword?

Why did they add a beauty mark? Why did they post a picture of her in bunny ears?

 

[ChikoLad]

ZSS's moveset is not based on the whip either, her moveset is based around kicks more than anything. Only four moves actually used the whip besides her grapple (Up B, Side B, Side Smash, Up Smash). Heck, in Smash 4, her Up B no longer uses the whip, it's now a jet powered kick. Her whip was also a gun.

As for why the used a whip over something like a Beam Sword, we already have a beam sword as an item, plus we have plenty of sword wielding characters, so it would make her more generic. A whip is not something we have seen much of in Smash. Plus, Samus uses a grapple in her Power Suit that is also a whip, so whips are an established part of her arsenal.

They gave Samus jet powered heels because they add more power to her kick based moveset (kicks from heels hurt like hell), and the heels themselves serve as a funnel for the rocket. I don't even know how jet gloves could possibly work.

Samus had a beauty mark in Other M, and the Smash 4 design is based off of Other M. So that's why she has it in Smash. For anyone to care about a beauty mark is really reaching for straws here, anyway. It's literally just a spot of black on her face. And it's barely visible (I can't even see it in the render I posted, but it is in screenshots).

The picture with the bunny ears is just a silly little joke on Sakurai's part and does not say anything about how the character herself actually is in the game. Such is the beauty of camera mode in Smash. This is not the first picture like this we have gotten. Take this for example:

The sexual innuendo is blatant. She looks like she's orgasming. Yet nothing about her portrayal is sexualised. It's just Sakurai making fun of the characters.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Yes, it's such a small addition that it really doesn't matter much. But to many people who do complain about this, this was just another last straw. Nintendo have been molding her character into stereotypical eyecandy. It could have been a lot worse, and that is true. But it could have been better.

it could always be better sadly Dx
theres a lot of ingrained issues that are slowly being looked at to make games less shallow in that department, so its nice (GDC had panels upon panels dedicated to better representation in games, whether is for women, race, etc)

 

[aBBYS]

2014: People are still afraid of sex appeal.
2014: People still feel awkward discussing sexual attributes of fictional characters.
2014: People have started to think it's wrong and shameful to admit that you find a fictional character sexually attractive.
2014: The gap between the "elite opinion" in media and common gamers has never been wider - media writes article after article how wrong it is to sexualize female characters, while gamers keep enjoying their boobs and buttocks.

Also, I would like to point out that it's not only Zero Suit Samus's boobs which has gotten bigger compared to Brawl - her buttocks has gotten bigger as well! (Why is no one talking about them?)

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina also has noticeably bigger breasts compared to her previous incarnations.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

2014: People are still afraid of sex appeal.
2014: People still feel awkward discussing sexual attributes of fictional characters.
2014: People have started to think it's wrong and shameful to admit that you find a fictional character sexually attractive.
2014: The gap between the "elite opinion" in media and common gamers has never been wider - media writes article after article how wrong it is to sexualize female characters, while gamers keep enjoying their boobs and buttocks.

Also, I would like to point out that it's not only Zero Suit Samus's boobs which has gotten bigger compared to Brawl - her buttocks has gotten bigger as well! (Why is no one talking about them?)

BECAUSE THERE ARE HEELS TO TALK ABOUT
HEELS ARE #1 FORM OF SEXUALIZATION

buttsbuttsbutts

the whole argument about sexualization in games is a topic gamers need to discuss when we become more mature as a whole.

 

[aBBYS]

BECAUSE THERE ARE HEELS TO TALK ABOUT
HEELS ARE #1 FORM OF SEXUALIZATION

buttsbuttsbutts

the whole argument about sexualization in games is a topic gamers need to discuss when we become more mature as a whole.

I think the heel problem stems from Other M - it was so popular to hate that game, that people started to hate EVERYTHING about it just for the sake of it. People say the heels are impractical and stupid, but I didn't hear anyone complain about the thonging lines (which were just there to make her look sexier) on the zero suit in Metroid: Zero Mission. And I didn't see anyone praising Other M for getting rid of those lines.

And now the ridicolous heel hate has passed on to Smash Bros.

I don't think it has anything to do with maturity. You see a lot of adults complaining about ANYTHING these days. What it has to do with is that you're often not allowed to discuss it properly before someone steps in and halt the discussion. THAT's the real problem here.

 

[Sonicguy726]

ZSS's moveset is not based on the whip either, her moveset is based around kicks more than anything. Only four moves actually used the whip besides her grapple (Up B, Side B, Side Smash, Up Smash). Heck, in Smash 4, her Up B no longer uses the whip, it's now a jet powered kick. Her whip was also a gun.

As for why the used a whip over something like a Beam Sword, we already have a beam sword as an item, plus we have plenty of sword wielding characters, so it would make her more generic. A whip is not something we have seen much of in Smash. Plus, Samus uses a grapple in her Power Suit that is also a whip, so whips are an established part of her arsenal.

They gave Samus jet powered heels because they add more power to her kick based moveset (kicks from heels hurt like hell), and the heels themselves serve as a funnel for the rocket. I don't even know how jet gloves could possibly work.

Samus had a beauty mark in Other M, and the Smash 4 design is based off of Other M. So that's why she has it in Smash. For anyone to care about a beauty mark is really reaching for straws here, anyway. It's literally just a spot of black on her face. And it's barely visible (I can't even see it in the render I posted, but it is in screenshots).

The picture with the bunny ears is just a silly little joke on Sakurai's part and does not say anything about how the character herself actually is in the game. Such is the beauty of camera mode in Smash. This is not the first picture like this we have gotten. Take this for example:

The sexual innuendo is blatant. She looks like she's orgasming. Yet nothing about her portrayal is sexualised. It's just Sakurai making fun of the characters.

Also the cosmos under her gown one, I think he needs to remember this is still somewhat a kids game, unless they give it the T rating again like brawl

 

[BloderModer]

ZSS's moveset is not based on the whip either, her moveset is based around kicks more than anything. Only four moves actually used the whip besides her grapple (Up B, Side B, Side Smash, Up Smash). Heck, in Smash 4, her Up B no longer uses the whip, it's now a jet powered kick. Her whip was also a gun.

As for why the used a whip over something like a Beam Sword, we already have a beam sword as an item, plus we have plenty of sword wielding characters, so it would make her more generic. A whip is not something we have seen much of in Smash. Plus, Samus uses a grapple in her Power Suit that is also a whip, so whips are an established part of her arsenal.

They gave Samus jet powered heels because they add more power to her kick based moveset (kicks from heels hurt like hell), and the heels themselves serve as a funnel for the rocket. I don't even know how jet gloves could possibly work.

Samus had a beauty mark in Other M, and the Smash 4 design is based off of Other M. So that's why she has it in Smash. For anyone to care about a beauty mark is really reaching for straws here, anyway. It's literally just a spot of black on her face. And it's barely visible (I can't even see it in the render I posted, but it is in screenshots).

The picture with the bunny ears is just a silly little joke on Sakurai's part and does not say anything about how the character herself actually is in the game. Such is the beauty of camera mode in Smash. This is not the first picture like this we have gotten. Take this for example:


The sexual innuendo is blatant. She looks like she's orgasming. Yet nothing about her portrayal is sexualised. It's just Sakurai making fun of the characters.

Tell me then, what is sexual objectification/sexualization?

Because if it's not designing bounty hunters to have bigger butts, bigger breasts, a beauty mark, a cat suit, high heels and a whip. Then I don't know what it is.

 

[ChikoLad]

Really it's as simple as this:

Male characters are sexualised/made to look attractive as part of escapism for people attracted to males.
Female characters are sexualised/made to look attractive as part of escapism for people attracted to females.

If the character has sexuality (man or woman), or looks sexy, but is still portrayed as dignified or is in a game that doesn't have strong sexual themes, then it's fine. Said sexuality is essentially extra character depth.

If the character has those things in a game, but is portrayed in strong sexual situations, this is fine, but the game should have an indicator on the box.

If a character is the only significant character of that sex and is mistreated for no discernible reason besides their sex, that's sexism and unless the message is clearly to tell us that sexism is bad, then this is not OK and deserves hate (this is what Other M was).

If a character is titillated and all that jazz, but is still well written, then this is also acceptable, it is, again, just a pleasant fantasy. If you find these kind of characters offensive for whatever reason, avoid them. They are harmless in the grand scheme of things.

I'd also like to note that any guy I know that has unrealistic expectations for women doesn't have them because of video games, they have those unrealistic expectations because of pornography.

Also, to the above post, what is this cat suit you keep referring to? Because when you say it, all I think of is:

 

[Sonicguy726]

Really it's as simple as this:

Male characters are sexualised/made to look attractive as part of escapism for people attracted to males.
Female characters are sexualised/made to look attractive as part of escapism for people attracted to females.

If the character has sexuality (man or woman), or looks sexy, but is still portrayed as dignified or is in a game that doesn't have strong sexual themes, then it's fine. Said sexuality is essentially extra character depth.

If the character has those things in a game, but is portrayed in strong sexual situations, this is fine, but the game should have an indicator on the box.

If a character is the only significant character of that sex and is mistreated for no discernible reason besides their sex, that's sexism and unless the message is clearly to tell us that sexism is bad, then this is not OK and deserves hate (this is what Other M was).

If a character is titillated and all that jazz, but is still well written, then this is also acceptable, it is, again, just a pleasant fantasy. If you find these kind of characters offensive for whatever reason, avoid them. They are harmless in the grand scheme of things.

I'd also like to note that any guy I know that has unrealistic expectations for women doesn't have them because of video games, they have those unrealistic expectations because of pornography.

Also, to the above post, what is this cat suit you keep referring to?

I mean just look at marth and his screenshots on the site, he is pretty sexualized in a way

 

[aBBYS]

Tell me then, what is sexual objectification/sexualization?

Because if it's not designing bounty hunters to have bigger butts, bigger breasts, a beauty mark, a cat suit, high heels and a whip. Then I don't know what it is.

How is it degrading to make women more beautiful?

 

[BloderModer]

Really it's as simple as this:

Male characters are sexualised/made to look attractive as part of escapism for people attracted to males.
Female characters are sexualised/made to look attractive as part of escapism for people attracted to females.

If the character has sexuality (man or woman), or looks sexy, but is still portrayed as dignified or is in a game that doesn't have strong sexual themes, then it's fine. Said sexuality is essentially extra character depth.

If the character has those things in a game, but is portrayed in strong sexual situations, this is fine, but the game should have an indicator on the box.

If a character is the only significant character of that sex and is mistreated for no discernible reason besides their sex, that's sexism and unless the message is clearly to tell us that sexism is bad, then this is not OK and deserves hate (this is what Other M was).

If a character is titillated and all that jazz, but is still well written, then this is also acceptable, it is, again, just a pleasant fantasy. If you find these kind of characters offensive for whatever reason, avoid them. They are harmless in the grand scheme of things.

I'd also like to note that any guy I know that has unrealistic expectations for women doesn't have them because of video games, they have those unrealistic expectations because of pornography.

Also, to the above post, what is this cat suit you keep referring to?

The cat suit is the zero suit. Sure, I could call the whip the "laser whip" or the high heels the "rocket powered boots". Do you know what context is? You seem to fail to understand what context is. Heels are just a pair of shoes, I don't and wouldn't see it as sexualization as their own or as footwear for a woman. But in the context of a suit that's basically a cat suit and a weapon that's basically a whip, it's very obvious that Nintendo is in fact sexualizing Samus.

There are no differences between sexual objectification in pornography and objectification in media, besides the sex.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catsuit
This is a cat suit. Ever seen one before?

 

[BloderModer]

How is it degrading to make women more beautiful?

It's not.

 

[ChikoLad]

The cat suit is the zero suit. Sure, I could call the whip the "laser whip" or the high heels the "rocket powered boots". Do you know what context is? You seem to fail to understand what context is. Heels are just a pair of shoes, I don't and wouldn't see it as sexualization as their own or as footwear for a woman. But in the context of a suit that's basically a cat suit and a weapon that's basically a whip, it's very obvious that Nintendo is in fact sexualizing Samus.

There are no differences between sexual objectification in pornography and objectification in media, besides the sex.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catsuit
This is a cat suit. Ever seen one before?

Yes, I do understand context, but clearly you don't if you are saying the Zero Suit is a catsuit.

Smash Bros is a fighting game, not a sex game. Therefore, if you are seriously registering these things as sexual (which is a stretch in a lot of cases, I mean, the Zero Suit does not have a front zipper, and completely covers Samus, and is overall thicker than a catsuit), then you just have a dirty mind and are believing it to be the developers' intention. Using your logic, I guess Nintendo is also promoting streaking by letting Sonic wear nothing but shoes and gloves.

Sexual objectification is the POINT of pornography, it's not dignified in the slightest. Samus is perfectly dignified in Smash. Other M was the only time they went too far and made her nothing but an object for men.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Yes, I do understand context, but clearly you don't if you are saying the Zero Suit is a catsuit.

Smash Bros is a fighting game, not a sex game. Therefore, if you are seriously registering these things as sexual (which is a stretch in a lot of cases, I mean, the Zero Suit does not have a front zipper, and completely covers Samus, and is overall thicker than a catsuit), then you just have a dirty mind and are believing it to be the developers' intention. Using your logic, I guess Nintendo is also promoting streaking by letting Sonic wear nothing but shoes and gloves.

Sexual objectification is the POINT of pornography, it's not dignified in the slightest. Samus is perfectly dignified in Smash. Other M was the only time they went too far and made her nothing but an object for men.

Ignore the majority of other m when she does things on her own and is the badass she always is, there are obviously scenes where samus is objectified but for the most part she isn't, I mean she didn't really have a choice she needed to follow the galactic federations rules

 

[aBBYS]

It's not.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I read "designed" as "degrading".

LOL@me

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

This is probably the worst thread in the entirety of SWF. The pungent fog of adolescence is so thick I can taste it.

Can we lock threads for being too embarrassing?

 

[ChikoLad]

Ignore the majority of other m when she does things on her own and is the badass she always is, there are obviously scenes where samus is objectified but for the most part she isn't, I mean she didn't really have a choice she needed to follow the galactic federations rules

I ignore Other M (or will ignore it when I eventually get to it) as it is based off a manga in which Samus has post-traumatic stress disorder and is not as strong as she normally is. Other M seems like it was a poor attempt at writing that manga into the game canon.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I ignore Other M (or will ignore it when I eventually get to it) as it is based off a manga in which Samus has post-traumatic stress disorder and is not as strong as she normally is. Other M seems like it was a poor attempt at writing that manga into the game canon.

So it's a bad thing she's actually a human with thoughts and feelings

 

[gamer8]

This is probably the worst thread in the entirety of SWF. The pungent fog of adolescence is so thick I can taste it.

Can we lock threads for being too embarrassing?

Lol was just thinking that. Worst thread I've ever seen.

 

[BloderModer]

Yes, I do understand context, but clearly you don't if you are saying the Zero Suit is a catsuit.

Smash Bros is a fighting game, not a sex game. Therefore, if you are seriously registering these things as sexual (which is a stretch in a lot of cases, I mean, the Zero Suit does not have a front zipper, and completely covers Samus, and is overall thicker than a catsuit), then you just have a dirty mind and are believing it to be the developers' intention. Using your logic, I guess Nintendo is also promoting streaking by letting Sonic wear nothing but shoes and gloves.

Sexual objectification is the POINT of pornography, it's not dignified in the slightest. Samus is perfectly dignified in Smash. Other M was the only time they went too far and made her nothing but an object for men.

Sonic is portrayed as a character that don't need clothes, it's a bad example.

We can both agree that Smash Bros isn't a sex game or a sex fighting game. I do understand you: She's not portrayed as a weak character in Smash 4, she's cool and can fight. But on the other hand, she is getting more sexualized and subtly portrayed as a sex object in each game she's in, canon or not. Nintendo is moving her character away from the established characterization from the games before Other M.

It's easy to hate the heels, but that's because they are so obvious! For many people, it brought up memories of other M, and people don't want Nintendo to move Samus character in that direction.

 

[Popo Nana Power]

Just compare her models and arts work to everything from Brawl. It seems like she's went up a few sizes despite being based on Metroid Other M. It's like Sakurai is clearly trying to make her Dead or Alive material.

Uh, despite? Other M was the one that gave her giant boobs. If anything, Sakurai toned them down a bit.

Anyway, I dunno. Not excusing the design change, really...But it's not as if nobody has big boobs, so I wouldn't really put it that way.

 

[Jaklub]

This is probably the best thread in the entirety of SWF. The pungent fog of adolescence is so thick I can taste it.

Can we stick threads for being too embarrassing?

Fixed for you

 

[ChikoLad]

So it's a bad thing she's actually a human with thoughts and feelings

No, but the concept was handled in a poorly written way. It also didn't work considering the point in the timeline they placed it.

Sonic is portrayed as a character that don't need clothes, it's a bad example.

We can both agree that Smash Bros isn't a sex game or a sex fighting game. I do understand you: She's not portrayed as a weak character in Smash 4, she's cool and can fight. But on the other hand, she is getting more sexualized and subtly portrayed as a sex object in each game she's in, canon or not. Nintendo is moving her character away from the established characterization from the games before Other M.

It's easy to hate the heels, but that's because they are so obvious! For many people, it brought up memories of other M, and people don't want Nintendo to move Samus character in that direction.

As is Samus a bad example of oversexualisation, specifically Smash 4 Samus.

But she's NOT more sexualised, this is a headcanon you are forming. Literally nothing about her portrayal overall screams that she is an object used for sex. If anything, Samus would be the first to knock someone out if they harassed her.

 

[BloderModer]

As is Samus a bad example of oversexualisation, specifically Smash 4 Samus.

But she's NOT more sexualised, this is a headcanon you are forming. Literally nothing about her portrayal overall screams that she is an object used for sex. If anything, Samus would be the first to knock someone out if they harassed her.

The additions that have been made to Samus character have been sexual in nature, it enhances the idea of her as a sex object, instead of the warrior she actually is.

 

[Sonicguy726]

The additions that have been made to Samus character have been sexual in nature, it enhances the idea of her as a sex object, instead of the warrior she actually is.

Because she has boobs and heels, she is still a woman you know

 

[BloderModer]

Because she has boobs and heels, she is still a woman you know

And she wasn't a woman before?