"Altogether for a chain attack!"-Shulk combo thread

[Berserker.]

Thoughts on u-throw > u-air in jump art? From what I've seen (went on Shulk dittos and I was killed by this set-up a bunch of times, I also used it from time to time and it worked, surprisingly), it's a fairly reliable set-up. Not a true combo but u-throw does set-up very well into u-air. You can simply bait the u-air and wait for them to air dodge. If they bite, hit them with u-air

 

[Jinban]

For what it's worth, Jump: Ledgedrop away or down > Doublejump > F-air > BS (Front) can catch people if they flinch long enough. Either that, or they tumble early hitting the floor missing the tech and get hit by BS. The rare beauty of this combo is that if you've drifted toward them and input BS, you just might be close enough to get the back hit.

Yeah, so maybe using it at as a follow-up at slightly lower percents would work out better than trying for the true combo, I seem to hit quite a few airdodges with BS due to its lingering hitboxes so maybe it could even catch those as well if they try to tech too early? Also you can use this for vanilla shulk aswell, fun fact, it's the only thing you can do after a ledgedrop F-air back on stage before you land. I don't think you can even jump after the F-air.

Also i found a MALLC combo for the back hit of BS: U-air (first hit) >> Any art -> Back Slash
seems pretty unrealistic to get in match but it's a possible combo into the back hit of Back slash which can be initiated at any percent (ignoring rage) soooo there's that. Other cons include not being able to use it on shorter characters unless they're slightly off the ground, and timing becomes very strict with heavier characters, but a little rage could help alleviate that issue. PS back hit is not guaranteed, but BSing away and then b-reversing so you don't leap past them is helpful but a little harder to do.

 

[Berserker.]

Seems a lot easier to go for d-air (first) >> Art cancel > Back Slash. I actually mentioned this to @Locke 06 before. You can get anything off from the first hit of d-air and u-air if you art cancel it correctly

Adding it

 

[Jinban]

Seems a lot easier to go for d-air (first) >> Art cancel > Back Slash. I actually mentioned this to @Locke 06 before. You can get anything off from the first hit of d-air and u-air if you art cancel it correctly

Adding it

Yeah I tried it but i had no luck, maybe someone better at the game can try it out and see what they find? either way i'm pretty sure the only real use for only weak hit of D-air is jablocking which leads into better options anyway

 

[Berserker.]

Yeah I tried it but i had no luck, maybe someone better at the game can try it out and see what they find?

D-air and u-air have the same guaranteed follow ups if you land the first hit with any of them.

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah, so maybe using it at as a follow-up at slightly lower percents would work out better than trying for the true combo, I seem to hit quite a few airdodges with BS due to its lingering hitboxes so maybe it could even catch those as well if they try to tech too early? Also you can use this for vanilla shulk aswell, fun fact, it's the only thing you can do after a ledgedrop F-air back on stage before you land. I don't think you can even jump after the F-air.

Also i found a MALLC combo for the back hit of BS: U-air (first hit) >> Any art -> Back Slash
seems pretty unrealistic to get in match but it's a possible combo into the back hit of Back slash which can be initiated at any percent (ignoring rage) soooo there's that. Other cons include not being able to use it on shorter characters unless they're slightly off the ground, and timing becomes very strict with heavier characters, but a little rage could help alleviate that issue. PS back hit is not guaranteed, but BSing away and then b-reversing so you don't leap past them is helpful but a little harder to do.

I forgot to mention it but when the opponent is getting launched at percentages they'll start flinching for longer can lead to BS (Front) being either true or they airdodge. The beauty is that we can slightly delay the BS timing so that even if they airdodge the Falling hitbox, their airdodge won't last long enough to avoid the Landing hitbox of BS.

MALLC U-air > BS (Back) sounds neat since it so happens that the hitbox of U-air is greater behind Shulk rather than in front of Shulk. So now a drifted U-air towards someone and MALLC'ing it sounds even better.

either way i'm pretty sure the only real use for only weak hit of D-air is jablocking which leads into better options anyway

It's actually the second hit of D-air sweetspotted that locks them. The first hit launches them away which is what we wouldn't want for locking purposes.

 

[Zatchiel]

Something nice for those of you that love Speed art.

Full hop F-air -> Air Slash works from low-mid percents to "relative" kill percents. From what I can tell, that means bread and butter.

It starts working from about 30% and doesn't stop working until about 80 or 90% against some characters. At the ledge, it kills at those percents anyway.

 

[Masonomace]

^ I've taken a liking to that combo lately even when used off-stage. Ya might raise an eye brow towards the off-stage part, but as long as you delay Air Slash's second hit and make to be drifting backward towards the stage, you'll make it back to the ledge.

Also, you can delay the second hit surprisingly late and it'll still work. Air Slash is that good.

 

[Berserker.]

Oh. My bad ;-;

Added F-air > Air slash in speed art true combos. Thanks Zatch

 

[Berserker.]

N-air > Jab > U-tilt > F-air

Works at low percentages

 

[erico9001]

How do you get U-tilt -> Jump Fair to work? I always have trouble with it.

Nair -> Jab -> U-tilt (or air slash) seems legitimate, though. The opponent will be higher up, off the ground, when they take the first hit of jab, so they will not be able to land and put up shield as soon as they would have been able to if already grounded. I had something similar to this in friendlies yesterday, when jab -> AS true combo'd against another Shulk because I hit him with the jab while he was in the air before he landed.

 

[Berserker.]

How do you get U-tilt -> Jump Fair to work? I always have trouble with it.

You might have to double jump with f-air. Or use one jump. I'd usually use two jumps to be sure that f-air connects and links

 

[Zatchiel]

How do you get U-tilt -> Jump Fair to work? I always have trouble with it.

Buffer full hop f-air during the u-tilt. I use a jump button and A . For most combos into f-air you'll have to buffer a jump into it for consistent results.

That reminds me. Could someone test this for me?

I need some things tested that I can't manage on my own.

Mid percent jab combo -> dash -> f-air in Speed (opponent does outward or diagonal DI on the jab)

Mid/high-mid percent jab combo -> full hop f-air in Jump (opponent does strictly upward or up and slightly diagonal DI on the jab)

80% sure the latter is a true combo. Not sure about the one in Speed.

 

[Berserker.]

@ erico9001 About jab > air slash

I managed to consistently use it on Yoshi at ~95% in Smash art. Don't think it has to be 150%+. Feel free to correct me though by confirming otherwise. Thaaanks :D

 

[Masonomace]

Hmmmmm, Jab1 > AS seems nice but I have seen people online evade the AS in time. Then again, the word 'online' probably gave that away.

@ Zatchiel I'm also quite unsure about that Jab combo > dash / FH > Fair. I presume Speed art is Full Hopping right?


Additionally, I don't remember if I or anyone brought this up before, but:

Speed: Dthrow > dash > RAR Nair

I've been using this combo a lot. Replacing Fair with Nair is neat because it's slightly more damage and if you turn around quickly after landing from RAR Nair, you can string Utilt. Actually, Reverse Air Slash would be better I think. Soooo:

Speed: Dthrow > dash > RAR SH Nair > turnaround Utilt / RAS

Perhaps turnaround Ftilt could work after RAR Nair but I haven't tried that and I'm just throwing it out there for theorycrafting purposes.

 

[Berserker.]

F-throw > F-tilt apparently works in buster art

 

[Masonomace]

Really now. . . Fthrow, eh? I'll give that a try.

EDIT: If Ftilt works, then I presume Jab Combo / Dtilt / AS work?

 

[Berserker.]

Really now. . . Fthrow, eh? I'll give that a try.

EDIT: If Ftilt works, then I presume Jab Combo / Dtilt / AS work?

A lot of factors though. Did this in a match so things like fresh bonus or staling may be a thing. I did this on a Yoshi soooo.... yeah. Not really sure about it but I managed to land this follow up

Edit: I'm more confident in f-throw > anything tbh in buster art

 

[erico9001]

I tried F-throw -> F-tilt against Yoshi at multiple percents with both freshness and staling, and Yoshi would either be able to shield or would be thrown too far. I did not try with Yoshi DI'ing though...

This doesn't mean other things don't work. It was really just a short test before I was side-tracked by something important and am now going to bed. I recommend trying Air Slash at low percents and F-smash at higherish percents.

Umm, so gn. I recommend somebody else tests this stuff. Could have huge implications.

 

[Berserker.]

I tried F-throw -> F-tilt against Yoshi at multiple percents with both freshness and staling, and Yoshi would either be able to shield or would be thrown too far. I did not try with Yoshi DI'ing though...

This doesn't mean other things don't work. It was really just a short test before I was side-tracked by something important and am now going to bed. I recommend trying Air Slash at low percents and F-smash at higherish percents.

Umm, so gn. I recommend somebody else tests this stuff. Could have huge implications.

This is why you're the best. Thanks for testing

I'll just treat it as a set-up then since it isn't really a true combo anyway

OP updated

 

[Zatchiel]

F-throw > F-tilt apparently works in buster art

Not raw I don't think. But it does work against walls at mid percents.

Really now. . . Fthrow, eh? I'll give that a try.

EDIT: If Ftilt works, then I presume Jab Combo / Dtilt / AS work?

These work too. Again, only against walls.

 

[DarkenedHalo115]

I have two.

Bair MALLC into u-tilt (0-2)
Bair MALLC into airslash (0-5)

Done against Mario

Not really helpful or viable,isn't it?



Edit:Also Bair(hit with shulk)MALLC into jabs (0-17)
Useful

 

[Zatchiel]

Universal: f-air -> jab combo

Maybe universal: d-tilt -> jab combo. This one probably only works on fatties.

 

[Masonomace]

A lot of factors though. Did this in a match so things like fresh bonus or staling may be a thing. I did this on a Yoshi soooo.... yeah. Not really sure about it but I managed to land this follow up

Edit: I'm more confident in f-throw > anything tbh in buster art

So I tried Buster: Fthrow > Dtilt in that local tourney match, and it worked at low percents but I forgot who the character was XD. I will consider labbing Buster Fthrow in Training Mode and report back on my findings.

 

[DarkenedHalo115]

Bair MALLC f-smash 1-10
Bair MALLC f-tilt 0-13
Bair MALLC dair (reliable follow up)
Bair MALLC to fair(at ledge)20ish percent
Bair MALLC to backslash27%



These are quite interesting.Specially cause the Bair into backslash one can break shields reliably with Buster.

Done against Mario

May we include item combos?

 

[Masonomace]

May we include item combos?

I used Smash Ball for true combos on some characters but I haven't checked if they are. Probably not, but with items like Gyro and Bombs, I'm down to see the inclusion.

 

[Berserker.]

@ DarkenedHalo115 avoid double posting please. thanks

 

[DarkenedHalo115]

@ DarkenedHalo115 avoid double posting please. thanks

Sorry, new to this website

 

[Berserker.]

Sorry, new to this website

It's alright

 

[DarkenedHalo115]

I used Smash Ball for true combos on some characters but I haven't checked if they are. Probably not, but with items like Gyro and Bombs, I'm down to see the inclusion.

Look at what I found with some testing
Jump canceled gyro into f-tilt/f-smash/up tilt/airslash/dair/fair/Nair/Bair/Uair

Arts(change mostly the effects of second hit,such as being able to follow up easier and to later percents with speed,have a kill confirm in smash,Buster doing what it normally does,jump making the fair into fair combos and could gimp and shield is just a fast way of moving I guess )

Z-dropped,Bair into gyro,air slash(36%)/jab combo(38%)f-tilt

Z drop gyro in front of Rob,fast fall Bair into his back.A good setup since the time you dropped you gyro to the time the Bair hits it will poke shield if held for the duration of setup.(can work with most arts but Buster is the one I tested with mostly)

Peach turnip z drop catch and hit with Nair,jump cancel throw into buffered dash fair(39%)

Best if you have peach's better turnips like stitch face and you can switch fair with airslash,pivot f-tilt(with speed and probally a few other follow ups.


Peach turnip jump canceled throw into grab,pummel once,back throw into turnip into ?

Jump cancel a throw upward and immediately dash grab peach.Pummel once(for damage and timing) and back throw which should knock peach into the turnip.From there,I don't know what to follow up with because at late percents you sometimes get f-tilt and airslash and at early percents a Nair hitting with the reverse hitbox.



Please note that this works really well in the low to mid percents.At high percent you want to go with something like jump canceled gyro thrown down into a continued dash airslash for a kill confirm(near 75%)

 

[Berserker.]

idk if it's just me but I'm feeling that it's a LOT easier to connect jump art combos when you start them with RAR n-air. Anyone feeling this too?

 

[erico9001]

idk if it's just me but I'm feeling that it's a LOT easier to connect jump art combos when you start them with RAR n-air. Anyone feeling this too?

Yeah. You can do it on reaction, for once.

 

[Masonomace]

Shulk's jumpsquat is 5 frames, & N-air starting on Frame 13 is cool & all 'cus we can input N-air during the jumpsquat animation & Shulk will do a rising SH / FH N-air "just like that!", but I wonder if there's a frame data difference between a regular N-air or an aerial pivoted N-air aka RAR N-air. Hmmm. . . . if there was a change it could affect our combos with N-air regular or RAR'd.

EDIT: Okay I just read what I typed XD. I dunno what I meant to type now I guess. I guess I was asking if the aerial pivot aka RAR itself was any different for frame data, not the N-air turned around since obviously RAR N-air will hit before regular N-air from the front.

 

[Jae]

I swear I was joking around

 

[Berserker.]

Buster RAR n-air > f-air > MABD f-air ~Works only at high percentages (100%+). Probably can be classified as a set-up but idk. I don't trust myself with knowing if a combo is true or not

Also, n-air > d-air is also a thing in buster art at higher percentages. Doable at ~111%+ on Marth. Now THIS one is true

 

[Zatchiel]

U-tilt -> f-air -> f-air -> f-air works on Dedede from 62%. I had no idea f-air could true combo into itself falling. But hell, Jump's air speed allows it.

Full hop f-air -> d-air should work on BF (when the opponent is on a platform and you full hop from below), but d-air is wonky so it seems they always pop out after the first hit. I'm triggered.

 

[Masonomace]

Just to ask for clarification Berserker, when you say Jab in this quoted portion of the OP:

True combos

Universal

Jab -> Air Slash
Jab -> Advancing air slash
Jab -> Dash grab

^ doesn't the Jab have to be jab canceled in order to truly combo Jab into AS, AAS, or dash grab? I always find myself jab canceling by holding down on the joystick after I perform Jab, so that I can get these true combos. I still haven't tried Jab > AS / AAS / MAS though, I'm curious of this now.

If Jab canceling after Jab is required to true combo into those options, then I suppose it could get added. I was doing some testing in Training Mode, trying to perform Jab > Air Slash with Jab canceling & then without it, & it almost feels the same regardless. . . Could I have been living a lie in Smash 4 all this time?? Do I not have to Jab cancel?!

EDIT: Just for a reference, here it is defined in the Smash Dictionary by Fox Is Openly Deceptive.

"Jab Cancel"- Cancelling your jab sequence by 'crouching' (e.g. if your character had a jab sequence consisting of two hits, you could do the first hit and then hold down on the joystick), allowing you to do another 'Jab 1' sooner than normal. Note that you do not have to wait till the crouch animation is complete; you can do the other Jab 1 on the very next 'frame' after your crouching animation starts. The frame that you can crouch on is the same frame that all other options become available to you, or in other words, that is where the 'IASA' frame is for that Jab.

 

[Berserker.]

Jab needs to be jab cancelled. I kinda feel dumb (again) for not noticing that. I'll change some jabs into jab (cancel) sooner or later

Soon could mean a week later when the word is coming from me btw but I'll try to find time to update the thread

 

[Rawbinator]

Anyone ever experimented with footstool stuff? Not too hard to get footstool after Nair...

Nair -> footstool -> insta Air Slash works on Marth at 30% (but might as well go Nair -> Air Slash)

I find it kinda hard to get anything other than that though, the footstool jump seems too high

 

[Masonomace]

Anyone ever experimented with footstool stuff? Not too hard to get footstool after Nair...

Nair -> footstool -> insta Air Slash works on Marth at 30% (but might as well go Nair -> Air Slash)

I find it kinda hard to get anything other than that though, the footstool jump seems too high

It just so happens that I'm working on footstool into Air Slash with xavix & I'm noticing N-air can lead to footstool. F-air can too but I may just prefer to N-air in case I ever want to land on the floor with N-air & use the mobility from Jump or Speed to get to their flinching state.

I suggest using Jump art for footstool combos because Jump Shulk's tapped footstool jump goes less high than any Monado art & Vanilla.