Air Tripping - Now without video proof (yet again)...

[Twin Dreams]

Well, imo, both sonics appear as though they would be pushing the jump button when this happens.

 

[verditude]

Your argument falls apart here, on your very first point.

Lucas's Zap Jump requires frame-perfect timing. It requires you to smash sideways on the control stick in the exact frame you perform your second jump. If your theory were anywhere near correct, we'd see hundreds of Lucas players in here reporting having air tripped out of a zap jump.

Frame perfect timing isn't as hard or as uncommon as you think it is.

Most Lucas players (that I know) use B-sticking to zap jump, which can't cause tripping. And maybe the PK Fire messes with the platform.

The point is that no one tries to smash the stick and double jump simultaneously.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Most Lucas players (that I know) use B-sticking to zap jump, which can't cause tripping. And maybe the PK Fire messes with the platform.

The point is that no one tries to smash the stick and double jump simultaneously.

Who's to say that no one has tried recreating this and has tried to smash the stick while double jumping?

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Just popping in to say that this must be a REALLY rare occurance, as I haven't seen it once in the entire time I've been playing Brawl.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah I think its probably a rare glitch, I am just wondering what causes it though the theories so far seem to be closest to it.
Ahh wouldn't it be great if it happened in a tournament to your opponent? T_T

 

[Shamoo]

I think it's a rare glitch with Sonic's Up-B.

Sonic does that same animation after he does his Up-B.

 

[Taymond]

Most Lucas players (that I know) use B-sticking to zap jump, which can't cause tripping. And maybe the PK Fire messes with the platform.

The point is that no one tries to smash the stick and double jump simultaneously.

Seriously? No one? How can you possibly be so presumptuous.

Even IF the majority B-Sticks Zap Jumping, plenty of Lucas players do not b-stick, period. And you're telling me that between all of them, there haven't been 100 zap jumps performed?

I myself have probably done a quarter of that, and I've never air tripped. If what you're saying is true, Air Tripping during a zap jump should have the same regularity as ground tripping. I could sit down right now and trip on command. I could not, however, sit down and perform 300 Zap Jumps and be fairly guaranteed to air trip.

There would be more Lucas accounts than Sonic ones, regardless of how few people you guess don't B-Stick as Lucas. Your proposition is just silly. Frame-perfect timing is NOT that difficult. If it was an issue of frame perfect timing, it would still be relatively easy to recreate it. Frame perfect timing WOULD eventually happen, on luck alone. And if it were merely a matter of frame perfect timing, with the sheer number of players on these forums, we should see a much larger portion of people regularly experiencing this. We should have at least a dozen videos, easy.

 

[Spellman]

I'm not going to lie, I believe I've air tripped with Bowser. He fell kind of like how he does his Screw Attack, the shell being perfectly vertical and the 'tummy' facing the screen, except all of Bowsers limbs were out, and he just fell spinning towards the ground like his grim defeat in Super Mario World.

 

[Ref]

Air tripping is real. I know simple proof too.
Luigi's negative zone causes tripping. Jump in the air while caught in the zone. You may just start rotating and falling downwards. Anyone can do this. In order to prevent people from escaping I guess the idea of air tripping came to be.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

All right, so I think we have reached a general consensus that air-tripping exists. Does any one have any ideas (if possible) to avoid or cancel it?

 

[Taymond]

*sigh at Ref* Yuna, I don't know how much it'll actually help, but you might want to consider editing the first post to include a mention that Air Tripping is distinctly different than the effects Luigi's Final Smash. It might make it a little more clear to people just joining the thread.

In other news, I got my first for-sure air trip with Jigglypuff today. I thought it happened once before, but it was lost to the action before I could be sure. This time, I was the highest player on the screen, I was relatively alone, and I landed on my rear. I was only a little bit above the highest platform on Battlefield, though, so I didn't have much chance to react. I did make sure to note I landed on my rear, though. No replay, unfortunately, just another testimonial. I think it occurred when I attempted to jump in the air, though I may just be filling that in after the fact based on expectation. Even if it did, I don't recall if it was my last jump or an earlier jump or any potentially helpful information like that.

 

[HarryPooter]

I'm not going to lie, I believe I've air tripped with Bowser. He fell kind of like how he does his Screw Attack, the shell being perfectly vertical and the 'tummy' facing the screen, except all of Bowsers limbs were out, and he just fell spinning towards the ground like his grim defeat in Super Mario World.

That's the animation he gets when footstooled.

 

[Hitaku]

Seriously? No one? How can you possibly be so presumptuous.

Even IF the majority B-Sticks Zap Jumping, plenty of Lucas players do not b-stick, period. And you're telling me that between all of them, there haven't been 100 zap jumps performed?

I myself have probably done a quarter of that, and I've never air tripped. If what you're saying is true, Air Tripping during a zap jump should have the same regularity as ground tripping. I could sit down right now and trip on command. I could not, however, sit down and perform 300 Zap Jumps and be fairly guaranteed to air trip.

There would be more Lucas accounts than Sonic ones, regardless of how few people you guess don't B-Stick as Lucas.

While I do agree that we would probably have more Lucas claims than anything else, remember this: look at how many people play Lucas, how many of them can zap jump, and how many of them don't B-stick. When looking at it this way, it really lowers the number of players. Now let's take that number and figure out how many of them are actually paying attention to this thread. I'm sure there have been many players that have air tripping without reporting it.

All I am saying is that at the moment he at least has some form of theory. At this point I think we should be testing out theories like this rather than shooting them down due to probability.

Edit: I would also like to point out that in order to trip you need to fully push the control stick over (like when making a character dash). Seeing as it is possible to do the zap jump without moving the joystick fully over, that lowers the number of circumstances as well.

n other news, I got my first for-sure air trip with Jigglypuff today.

Not that it will help too much, but what animation did Jigglypuff go into when falling? Also, when you landed on the ground was there any form of delay before you could get up?

 

[DiasFlac]

seems fails to me

 

[Yuna]

Most Lucas players (that I know) use B-sticking to zap jump, which can't cause tripping. And maybe the PK Fire messes with the platform.

The point is that no one tries to smash the stick and double jump simultaneously.

Tripping in the air =/= Tripping on the ground. It's not the same. It does not work in the same way.

For one thing, not once did I trip right after tapping forward on the control stick.

*sigh at Ref* Yuna, I don't know how much it'll actually help, but you might want to consider editing the first post to include a mention that Air Tripping is distinctly different than the effects Luigi's Final Smash. It might make it a little more clear to people just joining the thread.

I will.

In other news, I got my first for-sure air trip with Jigglypuff today. I thought it happened once before, but it was lost to the action before I could be sure. This time, I was the highest player on the screen, I was relatively alone, and I landed on my rear. I was only a little bit above the highest platform on Battlefield, though, so I didn't have much chance to react. I did make sure to note I landed on my rear, though. No replay, unfortunately, just another testimonial. I think it occurred when I attempted to jump in the air, though I may just be filling that in after the fact based on expectation. Even if it did, I don't recall if it was my last jump or an earlier jump or any potentially helpful information like that.

Good. One more testimony to an air trip where the player landed (and thus landed on their rear). Up 'til now we'd only heard testimonals of people air tripping without noting how they landed or tripping without land under them.

 

[Hitaku]

Tripping in the air =/= Tripping on the ground. It's not the same. It does not work in the same way.

For one thing, not once did I trip right after tapping forward on the control stick.

Well, I really think the theory is better than anything else we have at the moment. I think I'm going to test it a little bit today. I'm pretty sure that we can all agree air tripping was not something Sakurai designed. If it wasn't something designed, then it is a part of the game that isn't functioning properly. The characteristics of air tripping are obviously closest to normal tripping (when you land) so I really think they could have a connection.

You have a unique case of air tripping, Yuna, you are the only one so far who has done it while floating. Possibly there is something more to the rule when involving floating. Either way, like I said before, I'm going to try and test this a little.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Well, I really think the theory is better than anything else we have at the moment. I think I'm going to test it a little bit today. I'm pretty sure that we can all agree air tripping was not something Sakurai designed. If it wasn't something designed, then it is a part of the game that isn't functioning properly. The characteristics of air tripping are obviously closest to normal tripping (when you land) so I really think they could have a connection.

You have a unique case of air tripping, Yuna, you are the only one so far who has done it while floating. Possibly there is something more to the rule when involving floating. Either way, like I said before, I'm going to try and test this a little.

I believe Verditude believes that double jumping creates a phantom platform when using a second jump. THAT'S how he's saying a trip can work. However, I just cannot believe this from a programming aspect. I'm not an expert, I only know a little about programming, but I've seen nothing to stop them just from adding a force vector onto the character. Even so, there's no further evidence past his assumption. Why can't other characters interact with the phantom platform? What happens if this platform is under a character that didn't jump? Do they land on the platform? Do they get their second jump back? Can they air trip off the same phantom platform?


Edit: I'm not really opposed so much to the smashing at the jump frame, I'm opposed to the theory of a phantom platform. I just see it as an unnecessary thing to program.

 

[Heavenly Spoon]

I believe Verditude believes that double jumping creates a phantom platform when using a second jump. THAT'S how he's saying a trip can work. However, I just cannot believe this from a programming aspect. I'm not an expert, I only know a little about programming, but I've seen nothing to stop them just from adding a force vector onto the character. Even so, there's no further evidence past his assumption. Why can't other characters interact with the phantom platform? What happens if this platform is under a character that didn't jump? Do they land on the platform? Do they get their second jump back? Can they air trip off the same phantom platform?


Edit: I'm not really opposed so much to the smashing at the jump frame, I'm opposed to the theory of a phantom platform. I just see it as an unnecessary thing to program.

It can't be the phantom platform, or the Jiggly-claim has to be false.

 

[Yuna]

It can't be the phantom platform, or the Jiggly-claim has to be false.

He said:
"I think I was trying to jump mid-air... but I might just be remembering it wrong."

So we don't have proof either way.

 

[verditude]

Seriously? No one? How can you possibly be so presumptuous.

Even IF the majority B-Sticks Zap Jumping, plenty of Lucas players do not b-stick, period. And you're telling me that between all of them, there haven't been 100 zap jumps performed?

I myself have probably done a quarter of that, and I've never air tripped. If what you're saying is true, Air Tripping during a zap jump should have the same regularity as ground tripping. I could sit down right now and trip on command. I could not, however, sit down and perform 300 Zap Jumps and be fairly guaranteed to air trip.

There would be more Lucas accounts than Sonic ones, regardless of how few people you guess don't B-Stick as Lucas. Your proposition is just silly. Frame-perfect timing is NOT that difficult. If it was an issue of frame perfect timing, it would still be relatively easy to recreate it. Frame perfect timing WOULD eventually happen, on luck alone. And if it were merely a matter of frame perfect timing, with the sheer number of players on these forums, we should see a much larger portion of people regularly experiencing this. We should have at least a dozen videos, easy.

By "no one" I mean that there is no reason to smash the stick on the same frame as your double jump, except in the case of zap jumping, thus people don't have a reason to do it.

And, the others have a point. The # of Lucas players who don't b-stick, do zap jump, and read this thread is probably pretty small.

 

[Twin Dreams]

By "no one" I mean that there is no reason to smash the stick on the same frame as your double jump, except in the case of zap jumping, thus people don't have a reason to do it.

And, the others have a point. The # of Lucas players who don't b-stick, do zap jump, and read this thread is probably pretty small.

Except that instead of going through all the trouble of programming a platform to be underneath someone that doesn't react with anything is more programming than just adding a vector. (More appropriately, stopping downward vertical movement and then adding an upward force.)

 

[Hitaku]

Except that instead of going through all the trouble of programming a platform to be underneath someone that doesn't react with anything is more programming than just adding a vector. (More appropriately, stopping downward vertical movement and then adding an upward force.)

I don't really know much from a programmers point of view, so my opinion on the technical side of air tripping is pretty useless. I do agree though that what you are saying sounds more likely.

Now for the test results. I did 100 zap jumps (not b-sticked) with no trip. I also did around 200 normal jumps where I tried as best I could to press over on the same frame. I can zap jump without the b-stick 2/3 the time without messing up, so I would imagine a good deal of those were on frame one. Sadly no air trip.

 

[Twin Dreams]

I don't really know much from a programmers point of view, so my opinion on the technical side of air tripping is pretty useless. I do agree though that what you are saying sounds more likely.

Now for the test results. I did 100 zap jumps (not b-sticked) with no trip. I also did around 200 normal jumps where I tried as best I could to press over on the same frame. I can zap jump without the b-stick 2/3 the time without messing up, so I would imagine a good deal of those were on frame one. Sadly no air trip.

I tried air tripping for a few minutes before I got bored.


However, I made a stage that I'm using to test Air Tripping and *sigh* Gornel'ing. Basically, a big reverse L with a ladder and a platform to fall through at the top. I noticed that...


Snake and Sonic do not get their Up B after grabbing ladders.
Rob cannot grab a ladder after his.


So, I tried it out and Sonic and Snake cannot Up B after being grabbed out of it. Could this be related?



What is the list of characters claimed to have air-tripped? Don't know if anyone has a list or not. >>



Edit: I'm not saying that I discovered Snake and Sonic being in their post-recovery tumble. I knew Snake lost his, but I didn't know Sonic lost his as well.

I'm also saying that though Peach air tripped, she air tripped out of a float, which could be different. What exactly happened again, you got DA'd by G&W during your float and you air-tripped? If so, were you floating along the ground or above it?

 

[Taymond]

By "no one" I mean that there is no reason to smash the stick on the same frame as your double jump, except in the case of zap jumping, thus people don't have a reason to do it.

And, the others have a point. The # of Lucas players who don't b-stick, do zap jump, and read this thread is probably pretty small.

It doesn't matter how small that pool is, there is not, as far as I know, a single testimonial here involving Lucas. Even if there is, I doubt even further that it involves a failed Zap Jump.

It doesn't even matter if this probability analysis is accurate or not. I'm only using it to support my argument, not as the center of it. Your proposition is absurd from several perspectives. It doesn't make sense from a playing standpoint OR a programming standpoint. The mid-air jump and the ground jump have loads of differences, like a separate animation, an inability to short hop a mid-air jump, and the absence of any potential effect on other players this "phantom platform" might have, to name just a few.

You can't defend a completely unfounded and unsupported argument just by attacking its counter-arguments, you still need to give the slightest evidence or even a valid reason why game programmers might've taken the stop you seem to believe they did. This isn't a theory, it's just a sad, sad "what if" that fails to correspond to ANY statistics we have or show even the slightest probability of its validity.

I think we should be coming up with theories, yes. But I don't think we should be embracing bad theories simply because a better one hasn't been suggested yet. If a mid-air jump is just the same as a ground jump, then why is it so very different from a ground jump in every apparent way?

 

[Twin Dreams]

I think we should be coming up with theories, yes. But I don't think we should be embracing bad theories simply because a better one hasn't been suggested yet. If a mid-air jump is just the same as a ground jump, then why is it so very different from a ground jump in every apparent way?

Whenever you DJ, there are blue circles.


Whenever you hit the ground, there are ALSO blue circles. (There's more when you hit the ground.)



>>... Just saying..




Anyway, I'm not saying it doesn't work like that. Verditude may be right, but aside from the arbitrary circles I just pointed out, there is no real evidence that a phantom platform exists. So, I'm just arguing Occam's Razor here.

Also, in regards to smashing the control stick at the same frame as jumping, this may be possible. Why haven't we heard of Lucas doing it? Well, maybe not all characters can air trip.



Hitaku, what character did you do your air trip test with?

 

[Yuna]

I'm also saying that though Peach air tripped, she air tripped out of a float, which could be different. What exactly happened again, you got DA'd by G&W during your float and you air-tripped? If so, were you floating along the ground or above it?

How many times must I repeat this (and I think it's actually in the OP):
* I air tripped twice simply by floating forward
* I air tripped once when G&W dashattacked me.

* There have been several testimonials of air tripping using Jigglyfluff. Once actually verified that he landed on his behind instead of his back/face, just like I did.

There have been other characters mentioned as well, though none come to mind ATM.

 

[Yuna]

What could Peach, Sonic and Jigglypuff (among others) possibly have in common that others don't that would make them but not Lucas air trip?

 

[Hitaku]

I think we should be coming up with theories, yes. But I don't think we should be embracing bad theories simply because a better one hasn't been suggested yet.

Like I said before, I really don't have any knowledge in programming. Because of that I really can't say either way if this platform is valid. However, even if his claim about the phantom platform is wrong, he may be on the right track with tapping the joystick on frame one of the jump. We really don't know what causes air tripping, so all I am suggesting is rather than targeting the weaknesses of a theory, we should try and investigate the possible positive elements of it. I understand that this would still mean Lucas would have a larger number of claims, but like someone said before, maybe the PK fire interferes with the trip.

Also, in regards to smashing the control stick at the same frame as jumping, this may be possible. Why haven't we heard of Lucas doing it? Well, maybe not all characters can air trip.

Hitaku, what character did you do your air trip test with?

I did the testing with Lucas.

 

[Surgo]

Pay no attention to this post, I am stupid.


I just watched, in training mode (so no replay :/) a level 3 CPU Sonic set on 'run' airtrip off the stage (I was somewhere above and to the right of it at the time, nowhere near close enough to footstool). However, it then used its up+b to recover normally.

My apologies if something similar was said somewhere else in the thread, but the CPU at least managed to recover.

Now, I may have misinterpreted and this might not have been the mystical 'air tripping' (and with no replay it's impossible to know anyway). But I'm going to throw this out there in case anyone else sees the same thing.

 

[Hitaku]

I just watched, in training mode (so no replay :/) a level 3 CPU Sonic set on 'run' airtrip off the stage (I was somewhere above and to the right of it at the time, nowhere near close enough to footstool). However, it then used its up+b to recover normally.

My apologies if something similar was said somewhere else in the thread, but the CPU at least managed to recover.

Are you sure it wasn't an air dodge? How exactly did he tumble down. Did you notice if he had already used both of his jumps?

 

[Surgo]

Oh wow I'm an idiot. I just went back into training mode (as Sonic) and checked what his air dodge looked like -- remarkably similar to a tumble animation. Haha, I'm dumb. Thanks, Hitaku,

 

[Ref]

Well i believe that peach, sonic, and jigglypuff's Forward B provides front ward movement on ground and air.

However, Lucas' forward B causes him to move backwards. Since you cannot run/walk backwards in brawl i don't believe its possible to trip backwards.

I know you may not have tripped doing the forward B but it is still something they have in common

 

[Yuna]

Well i believe that peach, sonic, and jigglypuff's Forward B provides front ward movement on ground and air.

However, Lucas' forward B causes him to move backwards. Since you cannot run/walk backwards in brawl i don't believe its possible to trip backwards.

I know you may not have tripped doing the forward B but it is still something they have in common

With this logic, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon and countless others should air trip as well.

 

[Hitaku]

Oh wow I'm an idiot. I just went back into training mode (as Sonic) and checked what his air dodge looked like -- remarkably similar to a tumble animation. Haha, I'm dumb. Thanks, Hitaku,

Np, a lot of people have made that mistake. Thanks for trying to help.

 

[ShadowLink84]

What could Peach, Sonic and Jigglypuff (among others) possibly have in common that others don't that would make them but not Lucas air trip?

This may be off topic but I noticed something odd with Sonic.

After he ^b's when he should be back on stage he'll sometimes continue falling until he grabs the edge.

here is my bad drawing.

----------------------------------[]Sonic
^^^
Stage​

Sonic should actually be just above the first line but yeah smashboards has a gay format.

When sonic is right in a position where most characters would be getting back on stage he doesn't and continues in his tumbling animation.

Anyone got an idea of why? I've tried doing this with other characters while they are stumbling and all of them get right back on stage when they should. @_@


Edit: **** YOU SMASHBOARD FORMAT~

 

[Heppy]

With this logic, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon and countless others should air trip as well.

I thought your argument was that anyone can air-trip and thats why its such a problem...

 

[Balayad]

This may be off topic but I noticed something odd with Sonic.

After he ^b's when he should be back on stage he'll sometimes continue falling until he grabs the edge.

here is my bad drawing.

----------------------------------[]Sonic
^^^
Stage​

Sonic should actually be just above the first line but yeah smashboards has a gay format.

When sonic is right in a position where most characters would be getting back on stage he doesn't and continues in his tumbling animation.

Anyone got an idea of why? I've tried doing this with other characters while they are stumbling and all of them get right back on stage when they should. @_@


Edit: **** YOU SMASHBOARD FORMAT~

um can u post a vid or seomthing im havign a hard time picturing it

 

[Yuna]

I thought your argument was that anyone can air-trip and thats why its such a problem...

My argument is that logically, everyone should be able to air trip because it'd be stupid if this were just limited to just a few characters with nothing to noticably make them stand out from the rest.

 

[ShadowLink84]

um can u post a vid or somethings im having a hard time picturing it

I don't have a motion capture device T_T
I can try making a replay with a level 1 computer.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Look, if you are testing ANYTHING just play 2:00 time matches to GUARANTEE a replay.




Also, I agree that all characters SHOULD be able to air trip. However, through observation, I don't see that. I see Sonic, Jigglypuff, and Floating Peach.