Air Tilts and Air Smashes

[Weej]

Sakurai mentioned how the air game is going to improve in Brawl, and I have been looking at topics like Air Throwing, and I thought that was a pretty cool idea. But I have been thinking about this ever since I started using the C-Stick in the air (a good while ago).

What's with the lack of air smashes?

This would only improve the aerial game, seeing as if your coming from behind a person in the air, you don't know if they will throw a smash or a tilt at you. The smash would most likely have more range than the tilts. There is a good chance that this won't be in Brawl, seeing as it is all wrapping up now, but I think it is still a good idea.

The smashes would obviously have more startup lag, and I am still undecided on whether you would be able to use more moves afterwards, like Falcon's Forward B.


I have searched for these topics to no prevail. They might have been minorly brought up inside a non-related topic, but nowhere that I could find.


DISCUSS!

 

[Hydde]

we already have air smashes!!


THE FALCON KNEE xd

 

[Weej]

we already have air smashes!!


THE FALCON KNEE xd

yeah, that's the closest there is........ for now

 

[LavisFiend]

Air Smashes would definatly be great.

We already have Doc's "Justice Punch" and Falcon's, "Justice knee" as well as a few spikes.

but overall, I think it would work nicely, especially giving more benefit to weaker characters as a whole.

 

[Legolastom]

That does sound interesting and air grab lol jumping over the edge to and opponent grabbing them and throwing them down then gracefully recover... except you miss the ledge because the opponent you just threw grabbed it -.-

 

[D_B_S]

kirby would be broken again......lol

Also would medaknight...

with Air grabs (down) and air smashs (over)

 

[Weej]

It seems like it would be quite an advancement, but that is what I am looking for. I, unlike many people on these boards, don't just want melee with better graphics, new characters, and online play. I want more moves and techniques that will really change the way the game is played. I think increased aerial combat, via air smashes/tilts, air grabbing, and possibly airshielding would be a welcome improvement.

By air shielding, I mean bubble shielding in the air. You would fly back really far, but no damage would be inflicted.

I play as Luigi and Jiggs , so aerial combat is super important to me. as is wavedashing, but that is for a different topic...

I want more aerial maneuvers, maybe even aerial b's........... maybe not though.

 

[Legolastom]

Without that long execution times then you would be able to just attack your way to back to the edge half the time lol

 

[LavisFiend]

Most likely they would scale the damage given for each individual character as a better way to balance them.

 

[Legolastom]

Hmm... i just imagined doing links down smash in the air... that looks so cool (in my mind)

 

[Phaazoid]

this is a pretty cool idea, i would love the inclusion of air smashes, as well as air grabs.

 

[Legolastom]

Ok i will do the same for you *ahem*

Yes that would be a brilliant idea

 

[Phaazoid]

that makes sense.
i'll edit my post for you

 

[Mama]

I think that's a pretty cool idea. Air smash attacks would be an excellent addition to the game as would air throws

 

[Vali]

My concern is that some people usually use the C-stick in order to initiate air-attacks, most commonly for Dairs to avoid fastfalling while performing meteors. If the air smashes were implemented into the game the C-stick would then be used obviously for air smashes but what if you wanted to d-tilt-air someone without fastfalling? The C-stick in other cases wouldn't be as big a problem since it doesn't have a high possibilty of death >.>

 

[Keige]

I agree with the aerial B comment but only if certain characters get them. Like Peach, who can't use her down B in the air.

 

[Weej]

My concern is that some people usually use the C-stick in order to initiate air-attacks, most commonly for Dairs to avoid fastfalling while performing meteors. If the air smashes were implemented into the game the C-stick would then be used obviously for air smashes but what if you wanted to d-tilt-air someone without fastfalling? The C-stick in other cases wouldn't be as big a problem since it doesn't have a high possibilty of death >.>

good point.

but, like any other change in brawl, we would all become accustomed to it.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

My concern is that some people usually use the C-stick in order to initiate air-attacks, most commonly for Dairs to avoid fastfalling while performing meteors. If the air smashes were implemented into the game the C-stick would then be used obviously for air smashes but what if you wanted to d-tilt-air someone without fastfalling? The C-stick in other cases wouldn't be as big a problem since it doesn't have a high possibilty of death >.>

Exactly why there should be no air smashes. It would just flat out ruin smash.

 

[CStrife187]

how would you air upsmash without jumping again? this seems like an impossible thing to work out.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Another good point... I dunno really I think uair bair fair nair and dair is quite a few aerial posibilities, considering every character has different moves... I dont think it will change in brawl and I personally think it would be a dumb idea to implement ''air smashes''

 

[smash~bomber]

oh hush dylan, i think air smashing would be lovely, you guys just didnt think well enough as to how it would work.

vali said something about the c stick right? well here's what i think should be done about that:
make it so that the c-stick is tilt-able, as in, fully tapping the c-stick to one side would cause an aerial smash, while merely tilting it would cause a tilt-aerial.
also, it would be a good way to ensure that the enemy really CAN'T get back to the ground what so ever.
if this was implemented, we'd have a whole new level of smash attained.

cool idea OP!

 

[Sariku]

I think there SHOULD be air smashes. How can it ruin it if we've never done it before. Think like this. METEOR SMASH, that helps alot, and does give you a do or die situation when you use it. It could be the same for smashes, so I say, give them to us.

 

[crescentia]

Problems:
- Performing an aerial up-tilt or up-smash without double jumping
- Performing an aerial down-tilt or down-smash accidentally when trying to fastfall an aerial

I think that adding aerial tilts and smashes for all characters - specifically up and down - would only add complexity to the control schemes, something Sakurai has said that he would like to cut down. I find that there's less of a problem with forward and back aerial tilts/smashes, but it's still problematic in that it doesn't simplify the controls.

Unless, of course, the character has the ability to remain in the air for longer periods of time, a la Peach's floating. It's then conceivable that we could have an alternate moveset when the character starts to float/glide/etc.

 

[smash~bomber]

Problems:
- Performing an aerial up-tilt or up-smash without double jumping
- Performing an aerial down-tilt or down-smash accidentally when trying to fastfall an aerial

I think that adding aerial tilts and smashes for all characters - specifically up and down - would only add complexity to the control schemes, something Sakurai has said that he would like to cut down. I find that there's less of a problem with forward and back aerial tilts/smashes, but it's still problematic in that it doesn't simplify the controls.

Unless, of course, the character has the ability to remain in the air for longer periods of time, a la Peach's floating. It's then conceivable that we could have an alternate moveset when the character starts to float/glide/etc.

read my post above.

 

[drewdizzal]

just imagine the combos if there were air grabs....*drools thinkin about chain air grabs*

 

[Speedsk8er]

also, it would be a good way to ensure that the enemy really CAN'T get back to the ground what so ever.
if this was implemented, we'd have a whole new level of smash attained.

cool idea OP!

But how would we balance this and make it fair for the person on defense? There already are barely any defensive tactics in the air. I think we should add more defensive abilities.

 

[smash~bomber]

But how would we balance this and make it fair for the person on defense? There already are barely any defensive tactics in the air. I think we should add more defensive abilities.

then you should air dodge with proper timing, duh~
or use a properly aimed projectile to stop the smash charge. really now, were you even thinking?
that was sarcasm btw~ or a joke~ however you wanna take it~

 

[Vali]

Vali said something about the c stick right? well here's what i think should be done about that:
make it so that the c-stick is tilt-able, as in, fully tapping the c-stick to one side would cause an aerial smash, while merely tilting it would cause a tilt-aerial.!

I considered that, but then I thought that through. How would it know if you were tilting or smashing? On the ground smashes and tilts are done by by inputting moving the control stick and pressing A, it's perfectly reasonable to be able to do a tilt by smashing the control stick but delaying the tap of A so it doesn't come out as a smash move. With the C-stick however how would it be able to tell? If you smashed the C-stick too slowly then it might come out as a tilt instead of a smash or if you accidently pushed it too hard too fast while frantically trying to do a tilt you'd end up with a smash. It's a needless complication and just wouldn't work in practice.

 

[shadepaw]

I like the idea of air-grabs, but not air smashes.

 

[smash~bomber]

I considered that, but then I thought that through. How would it know if you were tilting or smashing? On the ground smashes and tilts are done by by inputting moving the control stick and pressing A, it's perfectly reasonable to be able to do a tilt by smashing the control stick but delaying the tap of A so it doesn't come out as a smash move. With the C-stick however how would it be able to tell? If you smashed the C-stick too slowly then it might come out as a tilt instead of a smash or if you accidently pushed it too hard too fast while frantically trying to do a tilt you'd end up with a smash. It's a needless complication and just wouldn't work in practice.

well,you just have to be gentle, and in control.
or, they could make it so that air smashes can be done with one stick, and tilts with the other.

air grabs=love
"stop airgrabbing!"
"oh hush! it just means i love you~"

 

[Legolastom]

Yhea airgrabing is a great idea but air smash hmmm... they could make it to complicated having to move the c stick in a certain way just to get the right move.

 

[Vali]

well,you just have to be gentle, and in control.
or, they could make it so that air smashes can be done with one stick, and tilts with the other.

Then what about people that jump with up, or fast-falling? No matter how careful you are with being gentle and in control with the C-stick without a secondary confirmation of the move you're intending to do like the A button provides or in some cases such as Samus' side B, the B button, there's always the risk that it will get mis-interpreted. That, and everyone is prone to error and a C-stick smash+tilt control scheme is overcomplicated and has a huge margin of error that hopefully won't exist in Brawl.

 

[Legolastom]

I mean in a game as frantic and chaotic as smash bros (ever played a 99 lives 4-player Only Pokemon battle on a small arena?) it would cause to many mistake you try to do one thing but you dont have enough time to think "shall i push the c-stick lightly or shall i push it all the way" (Ignore the last bit -.-) because by the time you have made that decision the only thing you would be hearing is "FALCON PUNCH!".

 

[smash~bomber]

you only say that now, but when it comes right down to the actual battle, it will be like you weren't thinking about what you must do at all, it'll be like, second nature or something.

but from you guys' posts, i'd say you two are the kinds that take longer to think than most other people. so, that'd be your problem to choose what to do. no offense.


also, you shouldn't need to think, maybe you would, but that long, it'll only take about, half a second or less to figure the best possible action to take (such as that falcon punch you mentioned) if indeed he was about to punch, then move out of the way with an air dodge, or an air jump. really now, you dont need to think so deep.

 

[Legolastom]

Exactly all of us here its second nature to push the c-stick all the way and well even half a second is enough to get... shall we say air grabbed?

 

[Vali]

No offense, but it seems it takes you a bit longer to think than most people too. Smash Bros. is a game that appeals to casuals too, the people that take it to a pro level is the minority as pro level always is. Hell, wavedashing is one of the key advanced techinques and that itself is just merely a glitch (using game mechanics for other than their intended purpose) and unknown to a lot of people that just play Smash Bros. for fun. Sakurai said that he Brawl will most likely be slower and simpler to pull of moves as well, and air smashes just screams out to me that you aren't happy with the game being as complicated as it is in it's current state. Air smashes has no real good way of working, seriously you suggested the control stick which we'd _already addressed_ as leading to fast-falling, and over-complicates a game engine which is intending to be simplified.

 

[smash~bomber]

i'm not a pro, i dont even know how to wave dash properly, i can do it, but only when im using samus, or any other slippery character. im not even good at l-cancelling unless im using bowser.
and well ok, so i adressed the the control stick. i forget things easily.
and also, im one of the people who would rather play just for fun, i find pros to be irritating, they post on how tier lists are bla bla and how noobs arent worth anything.
im more on the side of the casual gamer, but even a new game needs to be stepped up in difficulty, even if it means adding more difficulty for novices. just like the street fighter series was, or better, SVC chaos, it was one complex game, button combinations were never really my thing, but novices and casual gamers gotta start some where right? they'll learn.
they'll learn. its like the transition form 64 to melee, they added ALOT to it, but even noobies became pros. because they learn, so whats the difference if they add this? hardly anything. why? because they'll learn.


VVV-post count~

 

[TheManaLord]

Bad idea, would ruin smash.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

While im not sure it would work well with smash, I thought of a way they could make it work.
Simply making the C-stick for smashes, and the D-Pad for Tilts, since your not gonna taunt in the air, they could do this, its really the only unused button on the controller, unless they decide on turning one of the 3 jump buttons into taunt, perferably x or y....
But yea,
+=Tilts
(C)=Smash

That makes it so that if you ever want to fastfall dair, u just use A, and if not, move ur finger away from the joystick for half a second.

 

[Vali]

Didn't they add hardly anything to the core mechanics? Ground dodging, short hopping and fast falling certainly aren't casual maneuvers and infact the only thing that probably really changed for casuals was air dodging (which is easy enough) and side B which takes...erm...no time getting used to? What we're talking about is a serious complication here, much more so than simply adding another B attack and a dodge in the air.

As for D-pad tilts, the positioning is a bit off to be comfortable and still would be quite awkward if you're using up to jump, not so much with X/Y. Still Brawl will be a bit simpler and slower than Melee was, Sakurai stated that, and this still is just a needless overcomplication.